Citronella collars - at my wit's end..*update*

I am currently conditioning Mikey for regular trails and hiking. I have been taking him to the local reservoir ALOT and he's been doing pretty well as far as pulling on the leash. He can deal with well over 2 miles of walking and he is STILL rearing to go. My biggest problem is the barking at wildlife, cars, and other dogs. He doesn't even bark at people or bikes, just those things listed. I have TRIED positive reinforcement using distractions (treats and play time), I have tried a stern "NO", it doesn't work. The positive reinforcement works when he wants it too and lately it just has stopped completely. When there's another dog he barks and wags his tail and it just disturbs the whole place. I KNOW the wildlife is gonna be HARD to distract him from 'cause he's part beagle but this really needs to stop before I take him on a long hike. I LOVE Mikey, and I really want to start taking him out on real mountain hikes and all that but until I can find some solution it's just gonna have to wait.

I ordered a book on hiking with dogs and it just came today...it said Anti-bark collars are a good tool, but it mentioned Citronella collars, basically when the dog barks it emits and unpleasant spray under their nose and stops the bark. Anyone use this?? Does it work? I am seriously thinking about it. It sounds like a good idea to me and I don't want to use a shock collar (again), I made that mistake once and I regret it but it was a desperate situation..Anyway, thoughts please?

I feel like I am avoiding the issue with this problem and using it as a temporary fix it but I am seriously desperate.

They're like $70 and before I go out and buy it I just want to ask opinions on it.

A lot of people will disagree with me for saying this, but you could try a prong collar on him. They don't pinch as hard as people think they do, and they've worked wonders for Brennan. Mikey will associate the tug and tightening of his collar with bad, and maybe he'll figure it out :p.

I've never heard of citronella collars, but $70? :eek: WOW.

It's not the pulling that drives me crazy, he doesn't pull nearly as much as he used to thanks to the harness I have and will always use, but the BARKING. He just BARKS and doesn't stop. It's just really embarrassing for me to. He isn't a nuisance dog, he's excited, I know, but the BARKING needs to stop.

I can probably find it cheaper online somewhere LOL. I wouldn't pay $70 for that.

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Originally Posted by Alysser

It's not the pulling that drives me crazy, he doesn't pull nearly as much as he used to thanks to the harness I have and will always use, but the BARKING. He just BARKS and doesn't stop. It's just really embarrassing for me to. He isn't a nuisance dog, he's excited, I know, but the BARKING needs to stop.

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Well, I meant you would use it for barking. Just give him a little snap when he barks to let him know that's an unwanted behavior. Brennan's is mainly for pulling, but I use it in situations where he tries to go after something too, or if he barked it could be used that way.

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Originally Posted by Roxyluvsme13

Well, I meant you would use it for barking. Just give him a little snap when he barks to let him know that's an unwanted behavior. Brennan's is mainly for pulling, but I use it in situations where he tries to go after something too, or if he barked it could be used that way.

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Ah, okay. Maybe for regular walks, but I would never use a prong collar on a trail. I'll never use anything but a harness, it prevents escape much easier. Plus I tried that with a british training lead, which acts like a prong collar, tightens if they pull but doesn't pinch. He literally choked himself...:mad:

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Originally Posted by Alysser

Ah, okay. Maybe for regular walks, but I would never use a prong collar on a trail. I'll never use anything but a harness, it prevents escape much easier. Plus I tried that with a british training lead, which acts like a prong collar, tightens if they pull but doesn't pinch. He literally choked himself...:mad:

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Yes, some dogs just don't get that pulling is causing that horrible choking feeling ... it's like there's a disconnect there in their brains. The sheltie I used to walk would literally choke himself on his collar once he knew we were heading back to office, unless I said "Heel" every 30 seconds or so to remind him not to. It must have amused passersby, but I didn't want him damaging his trachea. He was not my own dog, by the way,so any training I did with him all disappeared as soon as his actual mom or dad got back and took back over his care, they just were not consistent with him.

Alysser, have you tried a clicker or even make some clicking noise yourself to get him to stop barking?

I've never heard of a citronella coller either.

Jasper's extremely long nose gave him an advantage with a citronella collar. He was able to just turn his head and bark off to the side while the spray went forward. I don't think that would be a problem for Mikey though!

I've been doing some research, and I want to buy the remote controlled one so I can control it. I don't want him thinking that barking at all is bad. I just want him to be corrected when he barks at something on the trails or at a car. :rolleyes:

Haha Mikey has a pug snout for sure :p Eh, I guess it's pretty long but it should work. I read that some dogs don't even care but I know for sure Mikey would!

What if . . . before you buy a citronella (I know, you said not at $70), can you carry a water squirt bottle with you and squirt his head? You'd have to be able to control him on leash with one hand, as the other hand will be using the bottle, and it will be a nuisance. Just a thought as I was reading.

I loved that Jasper outsmarted the collar! Ha ha haaaaa

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Originally Posted by Freedom

What if . . . before you buy a citronella (I know, you said not at $70), can you carry a water squirt bottle with you and squirt his head? You'd have to be able to control him on leash with one hand, as the other hand will be using the bottle, and it will be a nuisance. Just a thought as I was reading.

I loved that Jasper outsmarted the collar! Ha ha haaaaa

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Freedom, I was thinking this. I was also thinking I would look like a dufus, but if anyone asks at least I look like I am attempting to train him out of this. It will be a nuisance but I am going to a park tomorrow so I will try this. If it works great if not, then Citronella collar and $70 it is. :eek:

The citronella collars do work with most dogs, i'd go that over the static shock ones and it will be easier than carrying a spray bottle around. What about the sonic anti bark collars, that might be another cheaper option. Shop around for the citronella collars, i know the price has dropped atleast $100 here in the last year or so.

Have a question. When Mikey starts barking, do you stop & correct him, or just keep walking on ?

WOW, am I relieved the squirt bottle worked. I took him for about 2 hours today and we went 2 miles in and 2 miles back, so he can handle 4 miles. :D We took 2 long breaks and he got some water. We saw plenty of dogs, at first he was BAD, barking his head off, straight through the water in his face. I thought it was gonna be a disaster. On the 3rd dog, I sat him down held his collar and said "NO" over and over again with the water bottle visible. He whined but no barking!! He did it again and again everytime I sat him down and said "NO". Ever bark, he'd get a squirt but he stopped completely. He may have barked a total of 6 or 7 times after the third dog :D He usually just goes on and on. We saw a couple of American Coots and he didn't bark AT ALL for them and he saw them!! I am such a proud mommy.

Clover, I am had a similar device for the house but it stopped working with him. He would ignore it. I changed the batteries to make sure it wasn't that but he would still FREAK.

Liz, I would stop him and sit him down and hold treats and everything. He just wouldn't stop, but at least this seems to be working.

Pet edge has a citronella collar for a bit cheaper if you still want to try it http://www.petedge.com/product/intel...llar/51760.uts I've never personally used one so no experience there. You can also try this product http://www.petco.com/product/109946/...sultRedirect=1 a customer told me about it and I got some for my mom for her schnauzers and it worked awesome with them. You don't actually spray the dog with it you just spray the air and the sound distracts them from barking. My mom's schnauzers are really bad barkers too, of course it doesn't work if they are across the yard and barking but it works good for barking where you are close by.

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Originally Posted by wolf_Q

Pet edge has a citronella collar for a bit cheaper if you still want to try it http://www.petedge.com/product/intel...llar/51760.uts I've never personally used one so no experience there. You can also try this product http://www.petco.com/product/109946/...sultRedirect=1 a customer told me about it and I got some for my mom for her schnauzers and it worked awesome with them. You don't actually spray the dog with it you just spray the air and the sound distracts them from barking. My mom's schnauzers are really bad barkers too, of course it doesn't work if they are across the yard and barking but it works good for barking where you are close by.

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Thanks Amy! I am still interested in it, and will of course look into both if this method stops working. :D

I asked the trainer I go to about these collars cause I was thinking about using it for training Clover. I asked what she thought, cause I didn't know much about it. I thought I'd post what she said, just as something to think about cause I never really thought about it this way. I wasn't planning to use it to stop barking but other problems.

"I don’t like them much at all, although sometimes if it’s a family being evicted due to barking problems, or taking the dog to the shelter, I’ll sometimes recommend giving one a shot if it is in dire circumstances and it will keep the dog and family in its home. But I don’t really associate them as being useful for anything other than barking. They don’t cause pain, in the way that a shock collar does, but they DO cause a dog to be uncomfortable by spraying a burst of citronella oil into the dog’s face, nose, and sometimes eyes. Many people think they are less aversive than shock collars, because they don’t use electricity, but what a lot of folks don’t consider is how important a dog’s nose is to their world, and how dogs understand scent. Knowing about how much better a dog’s sense of smell is than ours, and how important it is, it may even be more aversive (it doesn’t have to be painful to be aversive!) than a momentary shock because of how long the oil sticks to the nasal passages, hair, etc.



The secondary problem that they come with is the same with the shock collars – once you start using it, if it is effective, you’ll probably be reliant upon it for life, because dogs become very knowledgable about when the collar is on versus off. Most dogs who need to use these collars cannot be weaned off of them, and once you do, the behaviours come back quite quickly. This is because the dog has learned by context, and the behaviour depends on the presence of the collar.



That being said, of course dogs who are trained using food rewards will always need random rewards for good behaviour throughout its life (as any behaviour will only persist as long as it is either reinforced once in a while, or punished for lack of compliance). The learning component is no different. But personally, I would much rather use rewards for good behaviour, over the life of the dog, than punishments for unwanted behaviour, for the life of the dog. I suppose you just need to know what you would rather do, and ask yourself if there’s a way to use rewards to get to the same behaviour that the citronella collar would be used for. "

I think they can work for some dogs and I think they are more humane than the shock collars. Although some dogs may not be phased by it. We had a dog at the shelter we used a cintronella collar on to get him to calm down with barking. It did not phase him when it sprayed him. Some dogs are just going to bark and nothing will phase them. I am glad the spray bottle is working with him, better than paying $70 for a cintronella collar that may not work. :)

Sowa,
That's exactly why I was so reluctant to use one. To me it's more of a reliance rather than an actual solution to the problem. I wouldn't keep it on him all the time anyway, so I could see it not working well in that respect.

Krista, yeah I am glad this way worked to! I already have to buy hiking gear for him. $70 is ALOT for something that may not work!

I actually took him for a shorter neighborhood walk today and everytime a car came I sat him down and said "NO!". I forgot the waterbottle of course, but I am working on one thing right now. It actually worked pretty well and he wasn't lunging.:D

Just in case anyone was interested in an update -

WOW there is so much improvement! I took him out on a four hour hike to a new park. He of course barked at first but the first time you say no to him he stops! He still gets sprayed from time-to-time but I have been bringing this on every walk (including neighborhood walks & hikes) and he's just behaving so well now. He was incredible. He's a changed dog. Toward the middle of the hike, he'd just look at them and whine, but he didn't bark! I just had to say "NO" and he stopped. I am so proud. I will keep bringing it with me of course, but he's just so good now.

He still pulled some Mikey antics -
-tried to bring me a dead mouse/bat...thank you but no thank you Mikey :rolleyes:
-accidently peed on my friend. He was peeing on a post and missed, she was sitting right in front of him.
-Almost fell into the water a few times.

Also, some geese came over to us on one of our breaks (probably expecting food) and Mikey is so respectful of them. Of course the wuss may be a little scared but he doesn't bark at all..so I really don't need to worry about *bigger* wildlife. :D

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Originally Posted by Alysser

Just in case anyone was interested in an update -

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YES OF COURSE we are interested! So just using the water squirt bottle worked? WOO HOO!!!!

When you are comfortable, to maintain you need to start treating him with a high value yummy something or other the moment he stops. Just the whining is alright (at least, it would be fine to me, up to you on that) and so you move from negative to positive reinforcement!

Give that puppa a rub all over from me!

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Originally Posted by Alysser

Just in case anyone was interested in an update -

WOW there is so much improvement! I took him out on a four hour hike to a new park. He of course barked at first but the first time you say no to him he stops! He still gets sprayed from time-to-time but I have been bringing this on every walk (including neighborhood walks & hikes) and he's just behaving so well now. He was incredible. He's a changed dog. Toward the middle of the hike, he'd just look at them and whine, but he didn't bark! I just had to say "NO" and he stopped. I am so proud. I will keep bringing it with me of course, but he's just so good now.

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Excellent! Good to hear training and persistence on your part has worked so well. Keeping reinforcing, and you'll have a good dog for life!

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Originally Posted by Alysser

Also, some geese came over to us on one of our breaks (probably expecting food) and Mikey is so respectful of them. Of course the wuss may be a little scared but he doesn't bark at all..so I really don't need to worry about *bigger* wildlife. :D

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Smart dog - geese will not only go on the offensive, but those beaks are powerful and can inflict real pain! Better safe than sore!

Wow that's awesome news! Way to go Alyssa and Mikey!! :)

Glad to hear he is improving so much! Great job with him :D