Problems trying for a Rescue

The last twenty four hours have both of us here thinking we're completely nuts and a few minutes ago it occurred to me to ask you all for your opinions.

In a nutshell :
Saw a rescue dog online that looked like what we're looking for the other day.
Only 1 photo and it's ok, but it doesn't clearly show the dog. The dog in the photo seems held down at the collar, sitting, with his head looking up toward the ceiling, sort of. real hard to judge, but our interest peaked quickly.
Started correspondence !
Asked for a better picture. Sent 5 photos of Tiki so they could compare and render an opinion.
We have argued, yes argued ever since.
They cannot or will not supply a good photo.
They totally ignored several submissions of the Tiki photos.
They pushed for the application to be filled out even though we hadn't been able to make a decision on initial interest because of the photo and disregard for our requests.
We told them we'd give the app with rock solid references for 35 years but still needed something to give us an idea as to whether we'd be taking a 230 mile trip or not.
Disregarded like they either can't comprehend or choose not to comprehend.

Today two of our Vets call me on the cell to ask for authorization to release medical info on Tiki, but suggest not doing it. Said the caller/s were rude and very pushy, expecting them to drop what they were doing. Both offices said that that something seems wrong with the way they were handling the attempted adoption.
But what ? Makes no sense to us or any friends or colleagues.

To be interested you need to see something. Then you go to the next step.

Anyway, the whole thing has turned into a bitter mess, the wife is a basket case as she was hopeful, and I'm just sitting here kinda in disbelief at the whole thing. Just answered another snotty stuck up email that just doesn't understand what we're trying to say.

Are we nuts ? Thanks in advance.

Wow. Sounds like you are dealing with a real head case.
230 miles away makes it kinda difficult tho....eh ???

Who has the dog and is doing this? You say a rescue but . . . neither a shelter nor a proper rescue would work this way! We just don't treat potential adopters -- AND THEIR VET? OMGosh! -- this way.

If it s a rescue perhaps this one person - foster parent? - is the issue. Can you find a web site, main phone number to call for some info? Get to deal with a different person?

So either this is not truly a rescue, but someone trying to rehome a dog for some reason, or you have a rescue with a really bad personality and need to find a different person within the rescue to talk with.

And if it is the first, be aware the whole thing could be a scam, they take your money and you never get the dog. :rolleyes:

Just my thoughts, reading this one time over!

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Who has the dog and is doing this? You say a rescue but . . . neither a shelter nor a proper rescue would work this way! We just don't treat potential adopters -- AND THEIR VET? OMGosh! -- this way.

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Actually, having been treated EXTREMELY rudely by a local rescue, this behavior doesn't surprise me in the least.

I got my puppy through www.petfinder.com The rescue I found locally through that site was very helpful and we will adopt our next pup from them when we are ready. Some rescues require home visits, etc...and I know they can be less than accomodating with correspondance early on which is really a shame since the dogs need good homes. If you don't mind telling us what type of dog you are looking for, I bet you could get a lot of help.

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

Actually, having been treated EXTREMELY rudely by a local rescue, this behavior doesn't surprise me in the least.

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There is a local rescue that I know and half the time- I walk away angry after a contact with them. People are people, even those that love animals.

I'd listen to your vet. If these people are pushy and rude, either it's not their dog, or something else. I smell a fish. 230 miles is a heck of a long way to travel.

Thanks to all of you that responded. I can't put into words how frustrated we are at the situation, especially since correspondence became so unprofessional and ridiculous.

Freedom NFP rescue has a good track record from what we learned.
Would rather not say who it is for obvious reasons and because my gut feeling says that the situation is not over. Asked for contact information for a Board member or executive in charge and now contact was abruptly stopped, so talking to someone else was blocked, for the moment.
Not good policy for a NFP.

The ironic thing is that we fully understand the demands of volunteering and also wish we could save every animal in the world that has no home.
If they had just told us whether the dog looked like our dog, or not, the whole thing may have been avoided.
My wife and I never never have problems with anyone whether in our professional or personal lives, so to get in a battle over an animal adoption is absurd.
Lady's Human Once before a rescue swore that the dog they had was identical to what we are seeking. We closed our business and finally rushed out to see for ourselves. The emotional high was amazing all the way there, then the bottom fell out.
The dog was adorable, but nowhere near the photos we sent. My wife broke down and went back to the truck. The human would not give up with me and swore that I was wrong, and the dog was just like ours !
Very rude, very strange, and also a group with a strong reputation.

MoonandBean Thank you and we would appreciate the help more than you could ever imagine. Posted pics in the Introduction thread but will try to post a few really good ones here as well.
I am on Petfinder and many others for at least 3 hours each day/night, sometimes more. Been like that for 15 months. All who we've spoken or corresponded with were fine for the most part. Some busier than others but none were like the current one, and not a single one had to be asked to acknowledge receipt of the photographs. All commented after they received them.
Cataholic Agreed, which is why I won't publicly reveal their identity.
I'm sure they have done good work and should continue to help save animals.
It's a shame that in this instance their unprofessional manner and ignorance negatively impacted the lives of some people that would have provided a fabulous forever home to a lucky dog.

moosmom Not a single person we've spoken to,
( over 100 at least thus far), in our out of the animal rescue/adoption world can believe that we were treated so poorly. One of our legislators who is a close friend and loved our dog wanted his aid to make a call but we wouldn't give him the info either. We don't want to hurt anyone, especially the animals. Taking one for the team it seems, but the team consists of the animals, not the people.
As far as the distance, it would have been costly and time consuming, and right now we're not in the greatest shape, but we would have made the trip.

First photo is in Lake George NY, in Battleground Park, deep in the Adirondacks,,,,his favorite place.
2nd is him fast asleep for once, but he was really sick at this time. Really details his face. Tiki loved it when the pups were outside so he could play herd dog.
3rd He is in HIS TRUCK, Ford Quad Cab Duallie. Back seat is totally his !
4th is Tiki with one of our many GSD pups that went to friends that were police officers etc...
5th He did not like his photo taken, at all, ever.
Here he is with the blanket we received through Tails of Hope Foundation , ( great, wonderful, fabulous, spectacular, can't say enough good about, caring people ), when we were realizing how serious things had become.


Thanks again. Think I feel a little better, but still angry that we'll never know if that other dog was the right one.

If you really want to pursue it, you can contact the state agency which registers not for profits, as they have the listing of Board members; it is all public info and "should" be readily available. the tough part is finding the right state agency, lol.

if you did not fill out an application, then how did they know what vets to call for Tiki's records?:confused:

Why is the appearance so critical to you? Is it possible you are inadvertently giving off weird vibes with what appears to be an exhaustive search for a pet? Maybe something you said or did has sounded off bells to them?

With my rescues, while I have had them ask for a vet reference, no one has ever asked for actual vet records. That seems odd.

I was thinking weird vibes too, but didn't wanna say it. I mean if I had an animal for adoption and somebody was interested in it just because it reminded them of another one, I'd be a little concerned too, especially if they were hundreds of miles away. But I wouldn't be so rude about it.

They know for sure that your Tiki has passed on, right? And that you're not just implying that this dog is one you used to own and supplying pics to prove it?

The only other thing I could think of is that all of the adoptable animals are in foster homes and the main office can't just walk over to them and snap a picture.

Just a note here - moosmom had a lovely cat that reminded her a lot of a beloved RB cat of hers. However, she has a lot of kitties, and there was an elderly gentleman that REALLY wanted him as his old cat had passed away, and Buddy (the cat with moosmom) looked JUST like him.

However, Buddy didn't last long there. The man tried - but he was expecting Buddy's personality to be the same as his RB cat, and there is no way Buddy could be that.

You might replace the looks - but be honest and ask yourselves if you are trying to replace Tiki.

Because you never will. Meanwhile, there are wonderful dogs with great personalities of their own who badly need a furrever home. Please think about them.


JMO

Wow, wierd vibes is the last thing we ever expected to hear. Honestly don't know how to respond to that. We're sitting here just looking at each other in disbelief.


******Came back and added this with a cup of coffee*******

Think about this for a moment

What if my wife and I are 100% honest about everything we've said.
What if everything is true, our motives are sound, and all we want is to find this type of dog,,,, to make us happy.
What do you think it feels like to have genuine honest feelings questioned ?
Give a moment of thought to this will ya ?
Thanks

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Catty1
"You might replace the looks - but be honest and ask yourselves if you are trying to replace Tiki."

Neither of us thinks for a minute that he could ever be replaced however we have decided that we want to stick with his type, if we can find it, never thinking that anyone would ever think something was wrong with us wanting it that way. The search, in a way is like therapy and why should finding what you're looking for always be so easy. Working for something that you want or care about is a good choice don't you think ?
If everything is handed to us we lose respect for it, such is the state of the world as things in many cases come too easy and are taken for granted.

"Because you never will. Meanwhile, there are wonderful dogs with great personalities of their own who badly need a furrever home. Please think about them."
Our service to animals has been astronomical in the past 25 years, including those that have lived their lives with us. We have provided exceptional lives to many animals. We can't save the world.

In 2008 we almost lost our business taking care of Tiki, day in and day out for months,,,, only a dog in the eyes of some, but a child and family member to us. Insulin twice a day, cooking special meals, with special hard to find foods and herbs, Medicines throughout the entire day, sleeping in shifts to make sure he didn't go into shock, IV twice a day for weeks to keep him hydrated right before everyone agreed that there was no hope.
1,000 a week in medical bills for months, 11,000 when he almost died from diabetic shock due to insulin resistance and no one cared enough to try to save him, because, and they said, " he is only a dog ". We saved him and he loved every minute of life for another 8 months.
Was it worth it ? You're darn right it was and the greatest times of our lives were spent savoring every moment, good or bad, with what some consider, " just a dog ".


Yeah ok, and we're the ones that are wierd right ?


We don't want just any animal, but trust us, we do and always have considered other animals.
If we are strange or wierd for wanting one particular animal then so be it.
It's our choice and there is nothing odd about it.



We like Harleys not Honda's, Ford not Toyota, 95% fat free beef not 80% etc....black t shirts not white, yellow roses not red, Dell not Acer and so on.
I'm arachnophobic and my wife is afraid of snakes.
We don't think people that like them or have them are wierd or judge them.
I don't particularly care for cats anymore because of bad experiences.
I don't judge cat lovers because of my problem.
So what gives ?

We feed the deer on our property when others beg to come here and shoot them. The groundhogs and rabbits are trapped and relocated that eat the crops that we grow, not blasted like many others do, because this is our choice. Wierd right ?
We found a snake last year that seemed sick and was in the middle of shedding. Packed it up and took it to the vet. Turns out it was some rare breed that hasn't been seen in our area for over 25 years. They asked us to bring it back and release it. We did ! Now there are freakin snakes all over the place, but we co exist and know we did the right thing.

Does that too seem wierd ? Should those choices be questioned ?
It's called freedom of choice the last time I checked.

What is wrong with wanting the same type dog ?
His type made us very happy for 8 years, not the shepherds , not poodles, not poms or Rotties. We don't want anything else, plain, simple and to the point.
Replacing him is not an option but sticking with the type, if we can find it, is our choice, good,bad or indifferent.
Looking, used to make us feel good until this week.

aTailOf2Kitties
I would really enjoy an explanation as to what constitutes an opinion of wierd in the fact that a person wants something specific. Is it the general opinion that a person that wants to adopt take whatever is available just because it is ?
Our GSD's are not truck dogs. They don't travel with us. They don't have the opportunity our primary companion has, for numerous very valid reasons that need no explanation.
The companion dog, in this case Tiki, did everything with us, including go to work and go on vacation. The companion dog slept with us and lived a fantastic life. We want the companion part of our lives back, and choose to look for the same type animal. If this is wierd or sets off triggers and alerts then we're in the wrong place for sure.

They do, 100%, know that our dog passed away. They know we did everything imaginable to try to save his life. They know the history. We were completely honest. Maybe honesty is the problem !
Why on earth would we imply ownership ? That makes no sense ! What would the gain be ?

Has the world deteriorated to the point that good caring people are considered suspect for being good caring people ? Are we such a minority ?

As far as animals being in foster, or anywhere else, it is the responsibility of anyone, especially a NFP, to conduct themselves properly and professionally, not to discriminate etc..... If they cannot achieve the most important thing ( clear photo that shows the features of the animal, or answering simple and honest questions), in making physical identity known to prospective clients, maybe they should think twice about being involved.
"The only other thing I could think of is that all of the adoptable animals are in foster homes and the main office can't just walk over to them and snap a picture. "
But they certainly could have acknowledged the photos and told us either way if there was a strong resemblance. Pretty simple don't you think ?

Cataholic I'll ask the same question here. What in the world is so wierd?
The only reason this is a problem is because our dog was such an unusual mix. Even the vet's have said it to us, who incidentally are the ones that originally suggested searching out the same type.
( This isn't just 1 or two people we're talking about when we refer to the vets. This refers to the vet staff at all locations, maybe 50 or 60 people, that know us very very well. )

He was quite unique, so finding the same type, like other people do when they search a breed, will be difficult. It's not like checking Petfinder for a GSD or Pit which are common.

They were off the hook with the whole vet check thing.
Much of it stems, I think from the nose up in he air, high and mighty, we save the world and are better than you attitude. People like that don't last with us for very long. Have no use for self righteous, ego heavy, self indulgent jackarses. They can go save the world at someone elses expense, not ours.

If our vets don't want to be bothered with them, without any heads up or warning from us, what does that tell you ?
Really doesn't matter how many animals they save, or how many good comments they have, if they treat people in the wrong way, and even if it's once or twice, it's still wrong !

aTailOf2Kitties At the last minute they suckered us into sending the information, which we sent in incomplete, stating that others were interested and we needed to get the ball rolling. One of their people swore that they would let us know if this was a dog that might be worth taking a look at. They lied, plain and simple, for whatever reason.
We wanted to schedule our time accordingly to make the trip if this was a possibility.


Freedom To tell you the truth, I was really ticked off about this whole ridiculous situation but last night discussed it with a group of business owners and politicians at a Chamber of Commerce networking event similar to the one we attended the night before.
Not a single person questioned our motives. No one thought wierd thoughts because we wanted a specific mix breed of dog or as close as possible. Many of them knew Tiki as he used to come with us.
Everyone questioned the ethics of the rescue/foster group and everyone cited their handling of a potential client as well below acceptable standards for anyone, especially a NFP.

Anyway, since coming back in here and seeing that it may be frowned upon that honest hard working business owners and caring animal people may trigger caution when it comes to wanting to adopt an animal because want something specific, in reality just like many others, has made me pretty sure that this whole situation is just jinxed from the get go.



Note : I talk with people every day, all across the country. I never have any problems with anyone, ever. I work very hard at doing it right, whatever it may be.

As far as these people in the rescue are concerned, by ignoring a question once, they were wrong. By ignoring the client they were wrong. By misrepresenting the animal by not caring enough to make a good picture happen, they were wrong, cause it could have been done. Let's be serious on that issue.
By being too pushy, they were wrong. By disrespecting the genuine feelings of a client and animal lover they were wrong.

Just because people choose to help animals does not make them high and mighty. Some of these people, need to get off the high horse and back down to earth cause sooner or later, if you don't do it right, ya just might tick off the wrong person.
In their case I will forward our complaints to several sources and send a very nice letter to the President of the NFP detailing our feelings of sub standard treatment. The response we receive, if any, will decide whether we go any further.
Their real downfall, according to one of our legislators who we talked to last night,was refusing to divulge the information on who was in charge. That was not a sound idea.

In my opinion something feels wrong with this NFP.
Maybe they just never got caught, yet, but they will, if the i's aren't dotted and the t's crossed !

Sucks to be misjudged !

^^. Here is what I found weird- or gave off a weird vibe: You aren't searching for a specific breed, but a specific look. Hence the photos. This is what you said:
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Asked for a better picture. Sent 5 photos of Tiki so they could compare and render an opinion.
We have argued, yes argued ever since.
They cannot or will not supply a good photo.
They totally ignored several submissions of the Tiki photos.

Then you said:
Once before a rescue swore that the dog they had was identical to what we are seeking. We closed our business and finally rushed out to see for ourselves. The emotional high was amazing all the way there, then the bottom fell out.
The dog was adorable, but nowhere near the photos we sent. My wife broke down and went back to the truck. The human would not give up with me and swore that I was wrong, and the dog was just like ours !
Very rude, very strange, and also a group with a strong reputation

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I have never heard of anyone sending 5 photos to solidify a match. I would have ignorned the photos too. I am trying to place a dog, not make a beauty match. This 'situation' has happened to you twice now, people think it is odd with the photo, that is apparent.

One person cannot argue. It takes two.

You said:
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They pushed for the application to be filled out even though we hadn't been able to make a decision on initial interest because of the photo and disregard for our requests.
We told them we'd give the app with rock solid references for 35 years but still needed something to give us an idea as to whether we'd be taking a 230 mile trip or not.
Disregarded like they either can't comprehend or choose not to comprehend.

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All rescues take applications first. This allows them to make some separation between those just calling for fun, vs. those that are serious about adoptions. Many rescues (including NFP) are 501 (c) 3 operations, based solely on volunteers. So, not filling out an application tells them, probably, you aren't serious about looking at one of their many, many pets. Their time can be better utilized elsewhere, placing animals.

You said:

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Not a single person we've spoken to,
( over 100 at least thus far), in our out of the animal rescue/adoption world can believe that we were treated so poorly.

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You have talked to over 100 people thus far? That is VERY unusual behaviour, IMO.

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You said:

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I am on Petfinder and many others for at least 3 hours each day/night, sometimes more. Been like that for 15 months.
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Very unusual behaviour, IMO.


You said:

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Anyway, since coming back in here and seeing that it may be frowned upon that honest hard working business owners and caring animal people may trigger caution when it comes to wanting to adopt an animal because want something specific, in reality just like many others, has made me pretty sure that this whole situation is just jinxed from the get go.

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I couldn't agree with you more. The question is, what causes the situation to be jinxed? You sound like a person that has more years under the belt than less. (By that, I get the feeling you are older than 30 or so). As such, you are probably aware that the world is full of people that would rarely say to your face, "your behaviour sounds totally weird" or "you sound odd, off" or "I don't agree with a thing you are saying".

That none of the 100 plus people are telling you that this WHOLE thing, and all partipants in it- sounds off or odd is probably not a marker of whether the situation is off or odd. I find a total stranger much more honest with things than my own family member.

Just sayin'. I have nothing to gain or lose by telling you my opinion. It isn't as if I know you, have contact with you, want you to adopt a dog or cat from me, etc. You are getting an honest, gut reaction. You are telling the story from your perspective, and it should shed the most favorable light on you, as is human nature. That it doesn't tells me that something is majorly off here.

I had a big ol shpiel typed out here but once again Cataholic read my mind ;)

Being too honest was the downfall. I see that now.

So adopting an animal means giving someone you don't know your private information, letting them call and annoy you with plenty of information on whatever animal they need to place, calling your vets without authorization & wasting your time while they inflate your hopes, because in reality, what you, the client wants is not relevant, because they are volunteers and just want to place animals? Have I got this right yet ?



51 years old, extremely successful in a nationwide client representation business for 30 years. Straight up, honest and live a pretty darn clean life, but according to this I guess we're doggiephiles and high risk potential owners.
Geez you'd never know that by our contributions to the lives of so many people and animals over the years. What a joke.

You seem to condone lies and deception such as when we were lied to by the other rescue. Yeah, lied to ! Sorry, lies don't cut it and those that lie should be sanctioned especially if they are NFP's.
Maybe if regulations regarding training & conduct of volunteers were modified to hold them accountable for their actions things would be different. Is there some kind of Certification process that qualifies you for the task ?
Maybe I'll have that put on the calendar for the next meeting since you've peaked my curiosity at a level that may be of genuine public interest.

I especially like the thought that we're being discriminated against because a) we were honest , b) detailed and helpful , c) patient at first while the NFP's blatantly lied to us, d) wanted a dog like we had before.

You wouldn't have responded to the photos either! Preposterous !
Then you are not representing the interests of an interested party that seeks to give a good home to an animal. That is so obviously clear cut it is unworthy of debate .

Again I'll clearly state to finish this obvious waste of time that when a person wants something, they are specific.
We want a specific type dog. Doesn't make us bad people.
I really could care less what anyone says or thinks about what I want when their personal agenda supersedes my own and I am the client.

Whatever

I think what I see as defensiveness and a bit of matyrdom - 'have worked hard and been honest all my life' blah blah blah - it may be true but so what?

I don't know you personally - neither do the rescues - though if you cop any attitude at all, you perhaps have developed a reputation (deserved or not) throughout the rescue community. And word travels fast.

The rescues aren't asking any more from you than they would from any of us.

Are you special? Terminal uniqueness is insidious and could be your downfall.

JMO

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Originally Posted by TequilaBK949

The last twenty four hours have both of us here thinking we're completely nuts and a few minutes ago it occurred to me to ask you all for your opinions.

Are we nuts ? Thanks in advance.

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Ask, and I answer. Not willing (or able, more likely) to see your own conduct is difficult to understand in one over the age of 15 or so.

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Originally Posted by TequilaBK949

Again I'll clearly state to finish this obvious waste of time that when a person wants something, they are specific.

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Please see your first post.

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Originally Posted by TequilaBK949

Geez you'd never know that by our contributions to the lives of so many people and animals over the years. What a joke.

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WOW- that is some pretty good horn tootin' there, fella. Maybe the rescues just didn't know exactly who they were dealing with? :eek:

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Originally Posted by TequilaBK949

Maybe if regulations regarding training & conduct of volunteers were modified to hold them accountable for their actions things would be different. Is there some kind of Certification process that qualifies you for the task .

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Have you a firm understanding of the term 'volunteer'?

Tiki is beautiful! Was he a pure German Shepherd or a mixed breed? It looks like he may have some Chow, lab or Australian Cattle dog in there. His pictures remind me of another dog I know of through another pet forum. Here are some pictures: http://www.dogster.com/dogs/886448/photos/1

This dog looks a little like Tiki too, no?

http://www.dogster.com/dogs/696808/photos/1

Just about everyone here is extremely pro-adoption in general. Many here work for rescues/shelters and many have adopted from rescues/shelters. No matter which side of the front desk you're talking about, somebody here has done it. If something seems odd to us, it's going to seem odd to a rescue or shelter too. Requesting additional photos is one thing, and saying you prefer the look of "a tan dog with a black muzzle like a Shepherd" (or something similar) is still not out of the norm, but seeking a dog with a look specific enough that you supply your own photos probably strikes them as being a wee bit.... ummm.... obsessive? We're not just being harsh here. That type of behavior is honestly just a little off the beaten path.

Bottom line, it's ultimately up to them to adopt or not. The ball is almost always in their court, so to speak. If they don't want to adopt to you or answer questions then there's not really much you can do about it. I'd just agree to disagree with their behavior and keep looking elsewhere.

Since we're on the subject, this little one looks a bit like Tiki too. :
http://memphis.craigslist.org/pet/1678839661.html

That puppy is adorable!!

http://www.dogster.com/dogs/792422

http://www.dogster.com/dogs/1074758

http://www.dogster.com/dogs/1003052 bah. too bad theyres only one picture

i'll try to see if i can find more

Beautiful pups :)

Crap. i didnt think of location wise.

can you post or PM neighboring zipcodes that youre willing to go?

I think with the rash of animal cruelty running rampant, rescue groups are starting to crack down and do more in depth reference checks in order to assure a safe, healthy home for their animals. I don't blame them.

Case in point: Jay Baldwin who served a year in prison for 10 counts of animal cruelty and 1 count of violation of his probation. He's scheduled to get out on April 22. I pray for any animal that he gets his hands on. He has absolutely no regard for the law. That was obvious when he violated his probation.

I applied for a Sphynx recently (I know, no one can replace MooShoo) from a rescue organization in Mass. With my excellent references both personal and veterinary, I was still turned down because they said I had too many cats. Was I angry?? No. That's God's way of telling me to take care of the ones I have. Things happen for a reason.