Explain something to me please..

Hubby and I were sitting here listening to the news and the fact that the auto makers have asked for a bail out. I am wondering what that will do? If people aren't buying goods and, even more so, cars wouldn't that mean just making more cars to sit on lots unsold? My co-worker's husband lost his job two months ago. He worked for 20+ years as the service manager of a large dealership. The problem? People were no longer bringing their cars in for routine maintenance. Of course sales were dead as well. In fact, the dealership has subsequently closed down. How will helping the auto industry improve things for them? Maybe I am just stupid but I don't understand...

The auto makers were caught with the tooling to produce large cars- The bailout is supposedly to help them retool the factories to make smaller cars.:confused:

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

The auto makers were caught with the tooling to produce large cars- The bailout is supposedly to help them retool the factories to make smaller cars.:confused:

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True, but if people can't afford to buy cars right now isn't this a little premature? I really just don't get it. All of the world can be glad I am not the president. :)

One in ten jobs in America is dependent upon the auto industry. The idea, as I understand it, is if the automakers are able to retool, as R said, they will be able to make smaller cars the public will want to buy.

On the other hand, if the auto industry further tanks, one in ten jobs in America tank with it.

Just before all this started I bought a Ford Escape hybrid. It runs on battery (charged by the engine and the brakes) at certain speeds and some weeks I get as much as 41 miles to the gallon. I consistently get around 35. That is the kind of cars the US auto industry needs to concentrate on making.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Just before all this started I bought a Ford Escape hybrid. It runs on battery (charged by the engine and the brakes) at certain speeds and some weeks I get as much as 41 miles to the gallon. I consistently get around 35. That is the kind of cars the US auto industry needs to concentrate on making.

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I had thought about getting a hybrid before, but I don't have a garage and park on the street. The fact that anything not nailed down gets stolen around here, I can imagine having to plug something in wouldn't work really well. The kids would steal whatever it was just to be brats.

I have a Nissan Versa, which has a CVT engine from Renault, and I get about 35-40 miles highway and about 31-34 miles in the city. It's the base model now for Nissan, making the Sentra a step above it. They are both fantastic cars as far as mileage and all that goes. Not the prettiest cars, but that doesn't really matter to me at this point.

Mine doesn't need to be plugged in. And, if hybrids become the norm instead of the exception, theft will be less of an issue! Signed...the eternal optimist!:D

Oh! I thought they had to be pluggedd in, like the diesel suckers do in the winter time.

I keep seeing more of those smart cars around, but all I can think of is a bunch of kids coming over and carrying them off, lol. They look so tiny and so light! I still can't believe they cost as much as they do though. I thought they'd be cheaper to buy.

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

The auto makers were caught with the tooling to produce large cars- The bailout is supposedly to help them retool the factories to make smaller cars.:confused:

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I don't think there is any formal comittment by auto makers to do
anything differently than they do now. Congress is trying to make their bailout with conditions attached.

There is a lot of confusion right now about who is getting what, and how
this will help prevent a full blown recession.

Auto companies are linked to more things than just cars, many more things in fact. Plus, once the economy straightens out, we will be needing cars. So the government needs to keep auto manufacturers going.

Theoretically, the money would be used to retool existing plants, and improve the technology for hybrid, electric and even maybe hydrogen-fueled cars ... once upon a time we were the world leaders in automotive advancement. Ideally, we would put money into assuring we would be again. Not that I expect that to happen ...

Ild be happier with them going into bankrupcy and Toyota, Honda, or Subaru buying a majority share then the government getting into the auto industry.

Just curious... you have a hybrid and you only get 35-40 mpg?

our pontiac Vibe gets at least 32 mpg... sometimes more. I thought hybrids got way more than that

Part of the bailout is to keep all those workers employed.

Having strings attached, forcing them to retool, is a great idea, I think. I have never owned an American made car. Each time I need a car, I do research, check Consumer Reports, insurance stats, etc. and the American made cars don't pass. American auto makers have needed to retool since the gas crisis of the '70's, IMO.

I bought the Toyota Prius in August. Gas / electric hybrid, does not plug in. I'm getting 48.6 MPG consistently. WOHOO! "Most" of the technology to develop the Prius was developed in the US, and we didn't follow through!

The Honda Civic hybrid is NOT a true hybrid, BTW, the ICE is always running.

The idea of a hybrid is that much of its energy comes from a non-petroleum source.

However, take good care of it. A Prius, for example, with so much of it made outside the US where environmental controls are lax, takes till 100,000 km or approx 67,000 miles before it begins to make up for the large environmental footprint its manufacture created.

Hopefully this will change in the future.

Toyota is building a plant here in the US to make the Prius. Won't be long, now.

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Originally Posted by blue

Ild be happier with them going into bankrupcy and Toyota, Honda, or Subaru buying a majority share then the government getting into the auto industry.

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Hey that's not a bad idea. Actually I haven't bought an American made car in 30 years. It's been Nissan, Toyota and Honda for hubby and me.

I thought this cartoon in my local paper from this morning pretty much summed things up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...p/DSCN0068.jpg

To those hoping for the demise of the US Auto industry, be careful what you wish for.

The US Automakers are more than automakers. They effect a huge % of the US domestic industry. Steel, electronics, and aerospace all have ties to automakers, and all would be effected by their demise.

I was reading an article on CNN Money earlier, the demise of GM would eliminate not just GM, but their 2300 suppliers of parts and materials.

It's truly a case of what's good for GM is good for America.

The automakers and the unions have made some boneheaded decisions, but letting them die would pretty much wipe out a fair chunk of industry in the US. hard to replace the estimated 300 billion in tax revenue alone which would be lost.

One problem with the "bailout for retooling" idea is that the American consumer is a spoiled and fickle creature. Once this recession is over, and good times are here again, the American public will be screaming for giant SUV's, Hummers and big luxury cars again. It has happened time and again.

Supply and demand is a natural law that cannot be changed with bailout money or legislation. If the demand is there, the supply will follow - a basic principal of capitalism. If the American people start demanding foreign cars on a long-term basis, all the bailouts in the world won't save an industry for which there is no demand.

:o The only soap box I have to get on is == In all of this wanting bailouts I have not once heard anything of lets cut some of the pay back.. Come on I heard some of the workers get anywhere from $47.00 to $76.00 An Hour.. Come on dont you think thats a bit much & could use some trimming there??

I have to post this for a point of reference.


The best "employer" ever never paid a salary, overtime, benefits. They never pitched in for a retirement fund or gave paid holidays.

They never visited the office, never asked for any extra work and never made you mad by being your boss.

The old U.S.S.R. was one of the greatest assest to American industry in the last half of the 1900's.

Auto plants with government/military contracts were the main employers throughout the Southern California area. Aerospace manufacturingplantes were HUGE out here. Boeing, Lockheed, Martin Marietta, Raytheon. The Los Angeles Harbor-as a major inlet for products used in the 'cold war effort' was and to some extent- still is a huge employer.

We have no major enemy or conflict that requires us to tool up or ramp up the production of materials used to fight a conflict or war.

Some of our current problems are partially to blame for the monetary hassles we have at the moment. Historically we have to be challenged, as a nation, to be our very best.

The gas crunch of the last year was a very good rallying point. We did just enough parking to show that we can be responsible for our oil usage.

As with everything else, it impacts the rest of our lives-lower expectations of the Christmas spending sprees, fewer of us traveling, credit freezes. The housing crash.

We will get thru all this. The world will not stop spinning because of fewer dollars being spent. It will spin no matter what. All it takes is the adjustment of lifestyle and a little hard work in our lives.

More home cooked meals?
Less TV time?
More walking on errands?
Less driving around for one errand?

WHen we take the extra dollars and stop spending them haphazardly - investing in the basic purchases for living, we will see that base get stronger and prepare us for the future.

I have faith-it's cheap, non polluting and has given me 10 gazillion miles-worry free.

Both my dad and FIL are GM retiree's. My dad only recently retired and may not have a pension for much longer.

Sad to hear some here hope for the demise of the american auto industry. :(

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Originally Posted by lvpets2002

:o The only soap box I have to get on is == In all of this wanting bailouts I have not once heard anything of lets cut some of the pay back.. Come on I heard some of the workers get anywhere from $47.00 to $76.00 An Hour.. Come on dont you think thats a bit much & could use some trimming there??

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When I lived in the mid-west in the late 80's, the auto manufacturers were THE place to work. This was because membership in the UAW union pretty much guaranteed you a job for life, no matter what one's skills or motivation were. And the wages were a LOT higher than other jobs in the area, three or four times the amount. It was certainly an artificially inflated and maintained work force.

I remember in one of my management classes in college watching some footage from hidden cameras placed on the assembly lines of the big three American car manufacturers. A large percentage of the workers were talking with each other, reading a magazine, sleeping, eating, etc. while the parts that they were supposed to be working on rolled by them untouched. It was SCARY, and made me vow to never buy an American car again. Then we were told the wages those people were making per hour, and it was doubly shocking.

I'm not saying this is the way it is or isn't today, I don't know.

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Originally Posted by Twisterdog

I remember in one of my management classes in college watching some footage from hidden cameras placed on the assembly lines of the big three American car manufacturers. A large percentage of the workers were talking with each other, reading a magazine, sleeping, eating, etc. while the parts that they were supposed to be working on rolled by them untouched. .

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What happened to the marbles that they would drop into the door panels?

Unions are a good/bad thing. They encourage people to work in industries that were thought to be 'for life' jobs. It also breeds crass behavior by workers who abuse the system and the companies who abuse the workers.

I was a 'union man' for years. Slowly, the companies started to bring in management who earned a position by going to night school and never ever stepping into the work arena.

Now you have 20 something year olds-No offense meant to them, some are way more mature than their counterparts-who have barely learned to wash and wipe their rear ends that are put into positions where they think they know more that a 20-25-30 year employees.

Instead of putting the new hires thru a probationary/introductory period with the company, they allow them the power and position of a "little tyrants" who learned how to lead from an online class on management.

I think the airlines should hire pilots based on people who learn to fly on PCs and Nintendo games.

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Originally Posted by lvpets2002

:o The only soap box I have to get on is == In all of this wanting bailouts I have not once heard anything of lets cut some of the pay back.. Come on I heard some of the workers get anywhere from $47.00 to $76.00 An Hour.. Come on dont you think thats a bit much & could use some trimming there??

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Those amounts also include all benefits packages - health insurance and prescription meds. The lower amount is consistent with what Toyota and Honda workers make. The higher amount is what UAW members get.

I think that the UAW contracts need to be re-visited. As does my husband, who is UAW.

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Originally Posted by Twisterdog

One problem with the "bailout for retooling" idea is that the American consumer is a spoiled and fickle creature. Once this recession is over, and good times are here again, the American public will be screaming for giant SUV's, Hummers and big luxury cars again. It has happened time and again.

Supply and demand is a natural law that cannot be changed with bailout money or legislation. If the demand is there, the supply will follow - a basic principal of capitalism. If the American people start demanding foreign cars on a long-term basis, all the bailouts in the world won't save an industry for which there is no demand.

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You are right here.

Does anyone remember 1980? We drove around in our Fiestas and Rabbits. The smaller the better, after gas had tripled to a whopping $1.10

Now it's Hummers, Escalades and all the excess you can imagine.

Richard- you are right on about the unions.

I was born and raised in Detroit. (I never worked in the auto industry- but most people I knew did have some connection)
About 2 years ago, I took a tour of the Ford Rouge plant, in my home town.
The line workers were 'earning' $35 hour, from what I was told. It's pretty much unskilled, if you ask me. (I think I could perform those tasks within a short time-but I'd have to kill myself due to lack of stimulation/creativity)

Anyway, part of the problem is the unions, another part supply and demand. And the fact that nobody seems to remember driving smaller modest cars.
Another problem is the quality issue with the Big 3 manus.

My current car is a Hyundai. My previous car was a Ford. (it was a piece of crap) And, come to find out it was really a Mazda anyway.

Retooling IS the thing to do. They should have been thinking about that for a long time now (how about 30 years) How could this have snuck up on them? :confused:

I think I'd rather see the car giants in a merger or in a bankruptcy than a bailout. Where does it stop? Airlines have emerged from bankruptcy.

I'm sooooo bummed I didn't get to catch all of the hearing today with the auto makers but I did catch this part and finally found a politician I can respect (at least in this issue anyways). ROFL



http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...4AI8C520081119

Chief executives from General Motors Corp, Ford Motor Co, and Chrysler LLC pleaded on Wednesday for $25 billion in federal assistance to help pay their suppliers, workers and other expenses at a time when car sales have plunged along with a souring economy.

"I don't know how I go back to my constituents and say the auto industry has changed if they own private jets which are not only expensive to own, expensive to operate and expensive to fly here, rather than to have flown commercial," said Rep. Brad Sherman, a California Democrat.

Sherman asked the CEOs if they were willing to sell their jets on Wednesday and fly back to Detroit on a commercial flight. "Let the record show no hands went up," Sherman said.

This guy is SOOOO cool!

We could send her in to sell those corporate jets, the car executives flew in, to the meetings in DC.

I just watched a broadcast of Charlie Rose on public TV - about the car industry bailout(s) and boy was it depressing. It seems to me, Chapter 11 would give the industry a bit of time to regroup, get new *&^%^&* management, negotiate new union contracts and supplier contracts, etc. etc. I sense, that unless they change the boards and the management, they will go deeper in to the dark hole. I learned lots about the dealer contracts with each car company and how difficult and expensive they are to get out of.... You just cannot close a dealership. From what I heard, the only way to close some dealerships and stop selling some of the hogs they produce, is to go into Chapter 11.

I respect Charlie Rose, for some reason and hope that what I saw just now, was not faulty information. He had two spokespersons on - I liked both persons, but seem to think the bailouts would be just a waste of taxpayers money at this point.

I think the car industry, including the foreign cars and manufacturers, is/are on the edge right now and within the big three here in the USA, their edge has been near for a long, long time. Who didn't expect this?

I am sick just thinking about the number of jobs that will be lost no matter what direction this mess goes..... jobs, homes, educations, retirements. It isn't going to be pretty.

Its a good thing I work 5 days a week and don't get to see the news each day or I'd be suicidal by now.

We all have to be grateful for what we have, however much.

Ugh x 1,000,000 ...... here is the link to the interview

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/9591

:eek::mad::confused: