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I've been meaning to post this for a week now. Last weekend I took the dogs out for a little hike and while we were there I saw a completely white great dane which I have not seen before in person. She was beautiful, I do not know if she was deaf or not. I did snap a picture though.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../whitedane.jpg
She is a beauty. I'm glad you got a pic of her. I don't think I have ever seen an all while one either. Very cool looking.
Oh my, she is beautiful! I love Great Danes, they are my favorite breed. I wonder if she was deaf....either way, she is really pretty. Thank you for sharing the picture of her with us.
Wow, she's stunning! I'd love to own a Great Dane someday... ;)
She's quite pretty, I've never seen a white Great Dane before, either.
Lovely! Thanks for stopping to take a photo. So unusual, bet her mom gets lots of questions as she walks her dogs.
With no pigment in her nose I too wonder if she's a lethal merle? :(
She's beautiful no matter! :D
wow she's gorgeous! :D
I did some looking around after I saw her and from what I could find, a white can be the result of a harlequin and mantle merle crossing. All that I could find were deaf or had eye problems though and I think would be considered a lethal white.Quote:
Originally Posted by pitc9
ETA: I found this that explains more http://www.gdca.org/health/deafness.htm
Wow!! I've never seen that before. What a stunning Dane! I hope she gets sunscreen on her nose. :D
Yes.. if he is the result of a merle x merle breeding he could be a double dilute (double merle or lethal white).... those can have hearing and vision problems but not all lethal whites/double dilutes/double merles (whatever you wanna call them) have these problems.... I know with Collies (shelties, aussies any breeds with merles really), some double dilutes can even be born without eyes...
Very stunning Dane. But I have to wonder also if it could be deaf or blind? Danes don't usually come all white do they, this is the first one I've seen. Hope the nose doesn't get sunburned...
Thanks for posting this picture, Jess. She is just incredible. I've never seen a dog that comes close to looking like her. :)
She is stunning! I am partial to pure white animals, considering I have two. ;)
I know she isn't albino, but can dogs be albino? I am sure it is very rare.
What a beautiful dog!
Jess stated that she didn't talk to the owner so she wasn't sure if she was deaf -Quote:
Originally Posted by shepgirl
not sure about blindness tho
Wow stunning dog!!
Must get alot of attention.. Put her through some mudd And shes be brown a brown dane :D
I really don't know about Albino, suppose we could google that. I've seen one albino person during my whole lifetime but I guess there are albino animals. Really don't know for sure. I tried looking at the Danes eyes with a magnifying glass to see if it was blind but I couldn't tell.
From what I read when googling ,there is no albinism in danes (though there are in some animal species). I do not think this girl was blind, she watched us very intently, and when they passed us on the trail the dane kept looking back at my dogs with interest. I didn't chat with the owner so I do not know if she was deaf but from what I read the deafness that is common in whites and double merles is caused by lack of pigmentation in the inner ear which causes the hair follicles that conduct sound waves to fall out and thus result in deafness.
Here is a picture of a double merle/Double Dilute (lethal white) smooth Collie who is blind and deaf.... he actually has no eyes. I know the person who owns him.
http://i31.tinypic.com/295r1bn.jpg
Also I knew a person in Ohio a while back who had several danes... he had 2 that were pretty much solid white (one lived to be 14yrs old, even after he bloated at age 10 - and he was HUGE even for a Dane!) but neither of his white danes were deaf or blind.
Janna
Exactly what does it mean by "lethal" white? Is that because they could be blind and deaf, or they have a high death rate? I've seen this written here a few times, but I'm not sure what it refers to.
The dane is gorgeous, I hope she/he can see and hear. The collie/sheltie that was pure white with no eyes.. how sad! You'd think people would want to breed for health. Thank god there are people out there who will love and take care of animals born with such disabilities.
Honestly I think "lethal" white was a name given to the white offspring of a merle x merle breeding. Years ago they would just automaticly put the solid white pups down, thinking they were sickly (other than being just deaf or blind).... and I guess on occasion you might get other issues that pop up with them.... but I personally prefer the term Double Merle or Double Dilute, I think it describes the dog and its color better.
Also, not all double merles are deaf or blind... some can both see and hear just fine.
These "lethal" whites are geneticly NOT white.... they are a result of doubling up on the merle (a dilute gene) gene. They are not white, they are merles (In the smooth Collies case pictured above and probably also in the danes case - Blue Merles geneticly)...
Merle is an incomplete dominat dilution gene... which is how you get the silvery/grey coat (for blue merles) mixed with the black patches... a blue merle is a diluted black dog... a red merle is a diluted red dog etc.. ie. You breed Tri-color Collie to Blue Merle Collie = Blue and Tri pups, but the blue merles are the result of the merle gene mixed with the tri.... it dilutes the tri into that silvery color in spots.. in other areas you get the black patches where it did not dilute the color.
When you breed Merle to Merle you double up on the dilution gene which dilutes the color even more and gives you a dog who appears white... this also causes the possible vision and hearing problems.
The smooth collie in the picture i posted is from a sable merle to a blue merle breeding. Both parents are champions.... and this double merle smooth Collie has been bred.... his deafness and blindness is the result of his color.. so this is not something that is passed to offspring. I know the person who bred and owns this dog.... and he has produced some beautiful puppies. When a double merle is bred to a tri-color the litter will be 100% normal blue merles. I personally would NEVER purposely breed merle to merle because of what could happen... but I do know people who have.....
Made me feel bad to look at the Collie's eyes, they actually looked sore. If he has no eyes why didn't they sew the lids shut? Is there anything in place of eyes?
After years of showing Shelties(Shetland Sheepdogs) I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritwind
OFF TOPIC I KNOW..... but I have to post.
Spiritwind-I looked at the picture of the collie you posted yesterday with no eyes and read your post about him and I'm still sickened that he was bred.
I'm in utter disbelief. True, I don't understand all there is to know about genes, genetics and what not, but just knowing that he is deaf and blind and was intentionally breed has disgusted me to no end.
I know you said he isn't your dog and you didn't breed him, this is only me venting about it.
I was just as surprised when I read that. What is it with people that they have to breed all white dogs when they aren't true to form? Do they sell them as rare and make more money? I could never take a chance if I had a white Dane like this one, and go out and try to breed it. Think of the poor pups and the health problems they might be born with - that's who pays the price, the pups and it's heartbreaking.
White danes can be produced even with the best breedings. It's just a risk that you take when breeding in the harle family. But you're right, a reputable breeder doesn't generally breed a white dane, especially not one with hearing or visual impairments. Part of the reason the mantle dane was finally accepted as a show color into the GDCA Standard was so the harles would have a broader color family to breed to and to reduce the number of merles/whites that are produced.Quote:
Originally Posted by shepgirl
The tricky things with whites and harles is that to the eye, they can be white or harle, but genetically they can be merle.
I've owned two white danes. One was deaf with visual impairments and one was "just" deaf. They both made great pets but I would've never considered breeding them (aside from the fact they were rescues).
:)
Also, to the albinism question... K9soul is correct, true albinism is not a condition in Great Danes.
I'll have to find some pictures of my white danes and post them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shepgirl
Ok.. first I just want to state this again.. I personally would NEVER breed merle to merle and risk getting these double merles... however like I've said before, yes I do know people who have bred merle to merle.
Did they do these breedings to sell them as rare and make more money?? NO they did not! At least not the ones I know of... I can personally guarantee you this was not the case. The person who bred the double merle collie above has been breeding/showing collies for over 40 yrs. She has some of the top winning dogs in the US. Her dogs do coformation, herding, obedience, agility and anything else they want to do. They are healthy, long lived dogs.
Now can't speak for the Great Dane (expect if the white you get is from a merle to merle breeding it would be the same as with collies - don't know about harlequins though)...
But when you breed a double merle (like the dog above) to a Tri-color (or you can do sable too, if you don't mind sable merles) you will get a litter of 100% normal blue merles. The vision and hearing problems do NOT affect the offspring of a double merle when bred to a tricolor or sable (unless you breed a double merle back to a blue merle).. the vision ahd hearing problems are caused by the doubling of the merle gene.... so it is NOT passed on to the offspring....
Blue merles are my personal favorite color!!.. I have a rough/smooth blue merle and tri-color collie litter due early June!!
Also.. kind of to a slightly different topic from what leansnslobbers wrote... while I know danes are, what the only breeding the breed with harlequins??? is that correct???... and geneticly collies don't have harlequins, however there are some lines of Collies, where the rgular blue merles are SOOO light they appear to be the same color as harlequin great danes (white with black patches on the body.. only the collies also have the tan markings on their face)... I think they are beautiful!!!... I will have to try to find some pictures...
But also like what leansnslobbers wrote about the harles and white danes... same goes for the double merle collie above... they are appear white, but geneticly its a (blue) merle...
For those who are interested in reading about the genetics behind whites/double merles/lethal whites, etc...here are a few really great reads.
http://www.lethalwhites.com/doublemerle.html
http://www.chromadane.com/whites.htm
http://www.vita-tech.com/diseasesinseason_profile.cfm