Research on Dog Food & Information

Recommend Books
The BARF Diet by Ian Billinghurst

Raw Dog Food: Make It Easy for you and your dog by Carina Beth MacDonald

Dr Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs & Cats by Dr Richard Pitcairn

K9 by Monica Segal

Natural Nutrition for Dogs & Cats: The Ultimate Diet by Kymythy Schultze

Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog by Wendy Volhard

The Holistic Dog Book by Denise Flaim

Food Pets Diet For: Shocking Facts About Pet Food by Ann N. Martin

Protect Your Pet: More Shocking Facts by Ann N. Martin

Recommend Sites
Pet Food Ingredients Revealed!
http://www.newstarget.com/Report_pet...edients_1.html

Supplements Diets & what to feed and NOT feed
http://www.treshanley.com/cic/diet.html

Dog Food Project
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/

Dog Aware
http://dogaware.com/

Food Allergies & Intolerance in Dogs
http://www.peteducation.com/article....&articleid=143

About Pet Food List
http://www.thepetfoodlist.com/

The Dog Food Comparison Charts
http://www.doberdogs.com/menu.html

Dog Food: Action Againist Poisoning
http://www.actionagainstpoisoning.co...2/page292.html

Dogs keep dying: Too many owners remain unaware of toxic dog food
http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/...dying.ssl.html

Get the Facts: What's Really in Pet Food
http://www.api4animals.org/facts.php?p=359&more=1

Food Additives to Avoid
http://www.mihog.org/diet/preserve.phtml

What should I avoid in my Pet Food?
http://www.mihog.org/diet/foodingredavoid.phtml

High Quality Pet Food
The Honest Kitchen (Raw Feeding)

Eagle Pack Holistic Select

Canidae

By Nature

Wellness

Natura (California Natural, Innova, EVO)

Nature's Variety (Raw Feeding)

Go! Natural

Verus

Wysong

Low Quailty Pet Food
Iams

Eukanuba

Ol' Roy

Bil-Jac

Science Diet

Purina One

Purina Pro Plan

Purina Dog Chow

Purina Puppy Chow

Purina Beneful

Purina HiPro

Pro Pac

Purina Mills PMI Nutrition

Purina Mills Exclusive

Nutro Natural Choice

Nutro Max

Nutro Natural Choice Ultra

Pedigree

Royal Canin

Kibbles 'n Bits

Diamond

Alpo

Nature's Recipe

I disagree. I do not think Nutro or Diamond are low quality foods. Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul is made by Diamond and it, imo, is just as good, if not better, than Wysong.

I've fed Wysong, Wellness, Innova, Innova EVO, and Canidae, and now I'm back to Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul. I used to feed raw, but that got too complicated. The big dogs are on CSFTDLS and Lucky is on homemade.

Besides - it's what food works best for your dog that really matters.

Some of Diamond's formulas contain by-products and what-not and I would not feed them to my dogs, but one of their formulas (I believe it's the lamb and rice? Please correct me if I'm wrong) is actually really very good. And I disagree with Nutro being "low-quality" too. The two brands definitely aren't the best you can feed and definitely aren't up there with brands such as Innova or Canidae, but for the lower bracket price-range they're much better than other brands such as Science Diet or IAMS. I would classify them moreso... on the lower end of the high-quality scale. Nature's Recipe I had never thought to be a "low-quality" food, but I've never looked into that brand to know (it was a bit too pricey for me at the time when compared to Nutro).

But bottom line we must remember that we need to feed what works for us and for our pets. If a food works for you and your pet is happy and healthy on it, then don't worry about it. If you're interested in learning more about nutrition and which foods are better, then educate yourself, do your own research, form your own opinions and then decide which is best for you and your pets. :) Because in my honest opinion the only "bad" food is no food at all :)

You honestly think wolves, dogs that are wild in Africa are giving high fat, sugar, by product, peanut hulls, corn for dinner? I don't think so! If you study the food industry I think you'd have a full understanding what not, what is going in your dog's systems

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MS_PAWS

You honestly think wolves, dogs that are wild in Africa are giving high fat, sugar, by product, peanut hulls, corn for dinner? I don't think so! If you study the food industry I think you'd have a full understanding what not, what is going in your dog's systems

---

I'm actually going through school to become a veterinary technician, so while I may not specialize in that particular field, I HAVE been educating myself on this area on my own for years now.

It's all opinion. And honestly, I would rather someone feed their pet Ol' Roy and love them than leave them tied in the backyard their entire life and not feed them at all.

EDIT: And I'm sure you'll also find that many people on this board also "study" the food industry... or at least, have done extensive research on foods and what goes into them. Many many members on this board are not ignorant to pet food and nutrition.

Bravo to you Jessika! I'm so glad you're very aware, and Ol' Roy's are not the BEST food in the industry either

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jessika

I'm actually going through school to become a veterinary technician, so while I may not specialize in that particular field, I HAVE been educating myself on this area on my own for years now.

It's all opinion. And honestly, I would rather someone feed their pet Ol' Roy and love them than leave them tied in the backyard their entire life and not feed them at all.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MS_PAWS

Bravo to you Jessika! I'm so glad you're very aware, and Ol' Roy's are not the BEST food in the industry either

---

No, I'm agreeing that Ol' Roy is probably, in my opinion, one of the worst foods on the market, I would rather a dog eat that than not eat anything at all. :)

oh I misunderstood you. For a vet further in your hands PLEASE don't recommend science diet for prescription, my best choice would have to go with Royal Canin for prescription

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jessika

No, I'm agreeing that Ol' Roy is probably, in my opinion, one of the worst foods on the market, I would rather a dog eat that than not eat anything at all. :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MS_PAWS

You honestly think wolves, dogs that are wild in Africa are giving high fat, sugar, by product, peanut hulls, corn for dinner? I don't think so! If you study the food industry I think you'd have a full understanding what not, what is going in your dog's systems

---

I never said that.

You claimed that Nutro and Diamond are low quality foods. CSFTDLS is made by Diamond. This is the shortened ingredient list of CSFTDLS:

Quote:

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Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, ocean fish meal, cracked pearled barley, whole grain brown rice, oatmeal, millet, white rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), potatoes, egg product, tomato pomace, duck, salmon, etc.

---

Is this high fat, sugar, by product, peanut hulls, and corn? In my opinion, this ingredient list is SUPERIOR to that of Canidae or Wysong (both of which I've fed).

I appreciate that you are attempting to educate us, but, please, I would advise you to refrain from making such blanket statements. I have read and "studied" on what goes in my dogs' systems and I choose to feed CSFTDLS made by DIAMOND.

I don't trust anything with Diamonds at all, and in case you forgotten some of their chain link products has been recalled

Made a oopies on the list, need to take off Wysong nothing but grain & grain
--------
Read this; Look what is on top of 5 ingrendients of each food
Canidae (All Life Stages)
Ingredients
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

Infomature on Menadione (Vitamin K3)
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione

Nutro Natural Choice
Ingredients:
Lamb meal, rice flour, rice bran, rice gluten, ground rice, dried beet pulp, sunflower oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a source of natural vitamin E), poultry fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a source of natural vitamin E), natural flavor, potassium chloride, dried kelp (source of iodine), dried egg product, zinc sulfate, vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, taurine, choline chloride, biotin, ascorbic acid (source of vitamin C), manganous oxide, garlic flavor, niacin, riboflavin supplement (source of vitamin B2), calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin A supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), calcium iodate, vitamin D3 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), sodium selenite, folic acid

Wysong
Ingredients:
Chicken, chicken giblets, ground brown rice, ground wheat, ground corn, ground oat groats, poultry fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols as a source of vitamin E), eggs, plums, dried wheat grass powder, dried barley grass powder, whey, dried yogurt, lecithin, citric acid, natural extractives of sage, natural extractives of rosemary, dried kelp, fish oil, salt, garlic, black pepper, artichoke, l-carnitine, dried bacillus subtilis fermentation product, dried entercococcus faecium fermentation product, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried lactobacillus lactis fermentation product, dried saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation product, dried aspergillus oryzae fermentation product, dried aspergillus niger fermentation product, ascorbic acid, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, vitamin E supplement, niacin supplement, manganese proteinate, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper proteinate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, vitamin A acetate, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement

Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul
INGREDIENTS
Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, ocean fish meal, cracked pearled barley, whole grain brown rice, oatmeal, millet, white rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), potatoes, egg product, tomato pomace, duck, salmon, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, choline chloride, dried chicory root, kelp, carrots, peas, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-carnitine, Enterococcus faecieum, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Saccharomyces cerevesiae fermentation solubles, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

Diamond
Ingredients:
Chicken, chicken meal, whole grain brown rice, whole grain white rice, wheat flour, rice bran, beet pulp, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, salt, dried chicory root, glucosamine hydrochloride, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, chondroitin sulfate, beta carotene, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, L-Carnitine, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganous sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid

Just curious what formulas of Royal Canin you think are low quality?

Some of their formulas are very good. In the past I have fed Royal Canin Natural Blend puppy and adult formulas... the ingredients are quite good, not the best out there, but not horrible.. far better than many other brands..

Royal Canina Natural Blend Adult:

Chicken meal, brown rice, chicken, oatmeal, brewers rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), natural chicken flavor, dried tomato pomace, flax, fish meal, brewers dried yeast, dried egg product, canola oil

Currently I feed most of my dogs Canidae and Diamond Naturals Chicken and Rice formula. While I don't care for some of the Diamond products, and wouldn't feed them to my dogs.... Diamond Naturals has very good ingredients and my dogs have done very well with it.

Looks like I'm doing your home work

Chain linked companies
Royal Canin & the Prescription Royal Canin has two different ingredients
http://www.mars.com/global/Global+Br...oyal+canin.htm

Diamond was on Recall List
http://www.fda.gov/oc/po/firmrecalls/diamond12_05.html

Also food chain linked by Schell & Kampeter, Inc.

Canidae is their own private companies and I trust them

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MS_PAWS

Looks like I'm doing your home work

Chain linked companies
Royal Canin & the Prescription Royal Canin has two different ingredients
http://www.mars.com/global/Global+Br...oyal+canin.htm

Diamond was on Recall List
http://www.fda.gov/oc/po/firmrecalls/diamond12_05.html

Also food chain linked by Schell & Kampeter, Inc.

Canidae is their own private companies and I trust them

---

You certainly aren't doing my home work, I know what I am feeding my dogs...

Yeah.. the recall back in 2005, they are fine now. Also the recall was for a toxin found in the corn. Diamond Naturals Chicken and Rice has no corn, wheat, soy or by-products in their ingredients which I listed below:

Chicken, chicken meal, whole grain brown rice, white rice, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), oatmeal, beet pulp, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, fish meal, potassium chloride, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

*sigh* One more time. Take a gander at the 5 ingredients again:
Canidae:
-Chicken Meal
-Turkey Meal
-Brown Rice
-White Rice
-Lamb Meal

VS

CSFTDLS:
-Chicken
-Turkey
-Chicken meal
-Ocean fish meal
-Cracked pearled barley

Final rundown: Canidae has 3 proteins and 2 grains in its first five ingredients. CSFTDLS has 4 protein and 1 grain in its first five. How is the former necessarily better than the latter? I fail to comprehend. Perhaps you should do my homework for me, too.

After several years of doing this, I will not argue which kibble is better than which kibble. I will defend what I feed my pups, however, if you so choose to attack my choices.

ETA: As for private companies (not sure which company is public or government-run, anyhow), Petcurean makes Go Natural. Several years ago, Go Natural endured a mass recall. Doesn't instill too much confidence in me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Giselle

Final rundown: Canidae has 3 proteins and 2 grains in its first five ingredients. CSFTDLS has 4 protein and 1 grain in its first five. How is the former necessarily better than the latter? I fail to comprehend. Perhaps you should do my homework for me, too.

---

My only thought on why that would be considered not as good as Canidae is because JUST Chicken and Turkey, not Chicken Meal or Turkey Meal, includes water and will fall down in the ingredient list once the food is cooked. The ingredient list, however, is made BEFORE the food is cooked, hence why it would seem those first two ingredients have a larger volume to be #1 and #2 spots, because they contain water, which will be cooked out in the cooking process.

Meals, though (Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal), contain no water and will remain the same through the cooking process.

At least that is my understanding, so please correct me if I'm wrong :)

EDIT: And MS_PAWS, just a helpful tip here, it's definitely OK to educate people, but it is certainly not ok to appear to attack them for their personal choices. I know you're just trying to help but maybe be a little less harsh in your replies. I know some people don't like seeing a "good" and "bad" list of foods and seeing their food fall under the "bad" list, so some may take offense to that, when I think it's meant as a learning/educating purposes, but we all just need to remember... these dogs are loved. They are being fed something, and regardless of what food that may or may not be, it's better than being fed nothing at all! But more importantly, they all have loving homes and families.

If I was judged by what I fed my pets... I must be a terrible person since my kitty is eating IAMS along with the rest of my in-law's cats... it's very hard to separate him from the food when they free-feed their cats, and I can't expect them to change their habits just for me, so I gave in and he's doing just fine, albeit a lot more shedding than when he was on Felidae lol. His coat is still as glossy as ever, and I am always getting comments on how he is one of the softest cats people have ever pet. My in-laws have around eight cats, nine including mine, and they just can't afford the higher quality cat food. I'll admit, it's a bit pricey, but at least they stick to one brand instead of just buying what's on sale every month.

Ok let me explain something here, I'm trying to teach you what is the value about dog or cat food here. I'm not attacking anybody I'm just a opinionated person lol

If I tell you that Iams is not a good source of food and you feed your kitty that anyways after I tell you the down low stuff. I don't wanna be bothered

I'm simply doing my best to tell you the bottom line about pets food! I can't twist your arm make you feed your pet food something BETTER

Jennifer, I respect you and it's nice to see that you are interested in dog foods. However, say that I fed a low quality food and someone spoke to me/tried to "educate me" like you have here (which I've yet to see anyone in this thread that feeds low quality foods) I would most likely be highly offended and not listen to a word you said.

There are different ways to "educate" people sucessfully.


I agree with Giselle when she states Chicken Soup For The Dog Lovers Soul is a good food. Yes, Diamond products were recalled. They are longer recalled. If we stopped using every single product that has been recalled we'd have little to nothing left in this world. A good company corrects the problem and they have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MS_PAWS

Ok let me explain something here, I'm trying to teach you what is the value about dog or cat food here. I'm not attacking anybody I'm just a opinionated person lol

If I tell you that Iams is not a good source of food and you feed your kitty that anyways after I tell you the down low stuff. I don't wanna be bothered

I'm simply doing my best to tell you the bottom line about pets food! I can't twist your arm make you feed your pet food something BETTER

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Ok.. so maybe you have posted about this before and I never saw the posts.... So just out of curiosity.. what makes you an authority on dog food? What are your qualifications to tell people what they should or should not be feeding their dogs? Do you have any real proof to back up your claims?

In the 13yrs I've had dogs (I've had dogs all my life as family pets, but 13 yrs when I've had my own dogs) I've feed a ton of different foods.

Back in 1994 when I got my first Collie he was fed Purina Puppy Chow, recommended by the breeder. Of course I was 12 at this time, and didn't know any better so that is what he ate... though I always got complemented on what a great coat the dog had and people always asked me what I fed because they wanted their dog to look like mine!!... then I know over the years I fed Pedigree, and Purina ONE, and Diamond Premium Adult, then by the time I was 18 and really into showing I did a lot more dog food research. At one time I fed my dogs Wellness (which I do NOT like.. and neither did my dogs.. they did horribly on it!! and I personally think its way over priced for its quality, JMO).. Royal Canin Natural Blend, Pro Plan, Canidae and Diamond Naturals.... the list goes on an on... I have fed Chicken soup for the dog lovers soul as well, when I lived in Ohio, and the dogs did well.. its much harder to find in my area where I live now.

My first Collie (who was an 85lb rough tri male) lived to be 12 1/2 yrs old and was never sick a day in his life... he wasn't on any medications, other than joint supplements, the only time he ever spent at the vet was to be neutered or for annual check ups... the food he ate most of his life was Purina ONE. His BIG old body just wore out on him..

I currently have 8 Collies and 4 of them eat Canidae and are doing great... look wonderful are healthy with great coats... the other 4 are on Diamond Naturals Chicken and Rice, and look WONDERFUL! They are healthy, active, in good weight and their coats look amazing. They eat diamond because that is what those 4 do best one... I've tried them on other foods and they don't look half as good as they do when eating Diamond Naturals.

My last litter (In 2006) was raised on a mixture of Diamond naturals lamb and rice and Iams.... the pups did great.. though I prefer Diamond, the place I bought the food kept running out of diamond puppy so I mixed with iams.

I fully agree... people need to feed what works BEST for their pet, not what someone else says is good food to feed. All animals are not the same and what works for one, will not always work for another.... I'm happy with the results I get from the food I feed. I think my dogs look their best and they are very happy and healthy!.


Janna

**Just wanted to add... diamond naturals has, what I feel to be very good ingredients, and like I said its the food 4 of my dogs do best on.. and the price is very good ~$22 for 40lbs, and the dogs do very well on it. The ingredients are better than iams or pro plan and its cheaper than those brands. Canidae how we get it (not from a store but in bulk from a distributer) at the end after the breeder program rebates etc.. the total price per bag is about $28 per 40lb bag.... and its delivered right to the house.

MS PAWS, what kind of food do you feed your dog? Just wondering what "you" think is the best.

I feed my dogs Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach and have for years.

I tried switching to Wellness and the following pictures will show you what the food did to my Buddy:
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/4...108AaMWTJi1cNT

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/4...108AaMWTJi1cNT

I'm happy with the "Low Quality" food I feed my dogs.

Thanks for the information and just as a note, people would be more open to your suggestions and opinions if you didn't come across so rude.

As it's been said before... what works for one will not work for all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jessika

It's all opinion. And honestly, I would rather someone feed their pet Ol' Roy and love them than leave them tied in the backyard their entire life and not feed them at all.

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Amen! I have a dog who was starved by her first owner. He said he couldn't afford to feed her. She came to me more than 30 pounds underweight. Kayleigh would have been better off if he had fed her the 15 bucks for 40 pounds stuff! 7 years later we are still dealing with her food issues! She lives alone because she'll kill another dog over something she thinks might be edible. I'll guarentee that somewhere in the straw in her doghouse she has stashed a chunk of meat, just in case I forget to feed her tonight.

I feed my dogs a good quality formula designed for working dogs, heavily supplemented with meat(mostly wild game). But I have, on occasion, fed absolute junk food. Sometimes I get donations of kibble that isn't a brand I would normally use, but I have 25 dogs to feed, I'm not turning down free dog food! I just mix it in with their regular stuff. When Paxil was battling cancer, the only thing she would eat was Ol' Roy Meaty Chunks. What she ate didn't matter to me, it was far more important that she eat something! When she was feeling better, she returned to her usual diet. She still gets her Ol' Roy occasionally when her appetite is off and throughly enjoys it. I use it to bait water in the winter too--2 cups of kibble in 5 gallons of water, guarenteed the dogs will all drink it before the water is frozen.

WOW, now I really understand why people don't like to discuss dog food on pet talk. I thought I was passionate about feeding quality food and I still am. There is one way to educate people about quality food, and shoving it down there throat is not one way.

Let's see a year and half ago (before I had Sage) my parents fed Kirkland lamb and rice. T.j did fantasic on it, Zoey did not. I was then educated about dog food and switched to chicken soup. Again T.j did fantastic and Zoey did awful. I then switched to canidae, at that time I had bought Sage, and he was being fed IAMS. The only problem Sage had on Iams was bad teeth. I switched Sage over to canidae. All three of my dogs didn't excel at it. I then switched to merrick, then solid gold, and then canine caviar. Never really finding the success I really wanted. Zoey was still having her allergy spasms and T.j and Sage not so shiny and soft. I then tried Zoey on Innova Evo and I am sooo pleased. She does not have her spasms or dandruffy skin. But she has horrible gas. T.j and Sage are now eating chicken soup and they are doing fantastic on it. I'm sticking to that and no one is going to tell me that it's not quality, because I like the ingredients and I can still sleep at night knowing what I feed my dogs.

There is a huge difference between educating and forcing your opinion upon someone.

Educating is giving someone all of the facts and information and letting them draw their own conclusion. Forcing your opinion upon someone is giving them all of the facts and information and then telling them they are wrong is they do not come to the same conclusion as you.

Both of my dog's are dead...

This was before I read about dog food, they were always on Science Diet from day we got them, Misty however was on Purina when she was a puppy. They both had really bad health from the start.

Misty had a rare weird blood disease at age of 9-10 her life was a rocky start to begin with she had a illness called non-genetic blood cell disease which you can read more here http://www.geocities.com/aihadogs/

When Misty started to get ill I rush on internet and did so much research it was beyond what I found that I had imagine!

We put Misty on pedigree and I didn't like the results at all, then tried Newman's Own then we decided to home-cook prepared her meals throughout her life. She had to be on meds and we had to rotate cooking and kibble. Then we finally stick with Canidae all other source of kibble like Innova, Cali Natural, Eagle Pack were just impossible to find

And Lacey however died of spleen cancer results of that she was on science diet and was living off of table scape she died at age of 12.5 yrs old

I went here to compare to other food with Natura food as well
http://www.naturapet.com/tools/comparison.asp

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pitc9

I feed my dogs Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach and have for years.

I tried switching to Wellness and the following pictures will show you what the food did to my Buddy:
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/4...108AaMWTJi1cNT

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/4...108AaMWTJi1cNT

I'm happy with the "Low Quality" food I feed my dogs.

---

Looks alot like a food allergy reaction. I've also seen reactions like that only worse with Canidae and a number of other foods both high and low quality by anyone's definition.

Like it's been said before there's no one food perfect for all pets. You have to feed what works for your particular pet.

Besides, I wouldn't get too riled up over someone posting such 'in your face' food recommendations when not only do they not appear to have any pet nutrition credentials to their name, but also when they list Royal Canin on the 'low quality' list then a few posts later recommend that same brand of food for prescription use. lol I just found that amusing. ;) :p

Lots of scare info on those sites, as usual little to no referencing or scientific backing.

The debate about dog food is religion. Impossible to sway the true believers, regardless of how many facts backed up by science you throw at them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MS_PAWS

And Lacey however died of spleen cancer results of that she was on science diet and was living off of table scape she died at age of 12.5 yrs old

I went here to compare to other food with Natura food as well
http://www.naturapet.com/tools/comparison.asp

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To just use this one statement as an example -

Remember, you have no proof that your dog's illnesses were caused by their food. How can you state that the spleen cancer was because of Science Diet and table scraps? Do you have any scientific data to support that? And where did you get that data? It is scientifically unsound to just make assumptions, and to try to convince others based on your own guesses is just not right.

Another ingredient to avoid:dihydrogen oxide. It is a universal corrosive agent, and if consumed in high enough doses can cause death. It's ONE MOLECULE away from being antifreeze, which is a deadly poison.

I think everyone needs to visit this forum
http://www.ourdogsonline.com/

Okay, its another pet forum. Your point would be? :confused:

With all due respect. I've joined that fourm, didn't learn much more then I know now. I wasn't treated with complete respect. I will always stick to pet talk. I'm sorry your just not going to get anyone to suade to your side. We are all educated on our pets health here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MS_PAWS

I think everyone needs to visit this forum
http://www.ourdogsonline.com/

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Oh Gawd.... :rolleyes:
I personally think you need to go visit that forum and stay there.

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Originally Posted by MS_PAWS

Both of my dog's are dead...

This was before I read about dog food, they were always on Science Diet from day we got them, Misty however was on Purina when she was a puppy. They both had really bad health from the start.

Misty had a rare weird blood disease at age of 9-10 her life was a rocky start to begin with she had a illness called non-genetic blood cell disease which you can read more here http://www.geocities.com/aihadogs/

When Misty started to get ill I rush on internet and did so much research it was beyond what I found that I had imagine!

We put Misty on pedigree and I didn't like the results at all, then tried Newman's Own then we decided to home-cook prepared her meals throughout her life. She had to be on meds and we had to rotate cooking and kibble. Then we finally stick with Canidae all other source of kibble like Innova, Cali Natural, Eagle Pack were just impossible to find

And Lacey however died of spleen cancer results of that she was on science diet and was living off of table scape she died at age of 12.5 yrs old

I went here to compare to other food with Natura food as well
http://www.naturapet.com/tools/comparison.asp

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Immune Mediated Hemolytic Anemia (IMHA) (Formerly known as autoimmune hemolytic anemia or AIHA) can have MANY causes, some thought to be genetic. If it didn't show up in your dog until 9-10yrs old, I would guess its less likely to be genetic but it is thought to be genetic in some cases.. and then sometimes there is no apparent cause that can be identified.

I've worked at vet clinicis for 9yrs... several years ago we had a Havanees (sp??) PUPPY come in who was diagnosed with IMHA/AIHA.. luckily she was quickly treated and on TONS of meds for a long time, but was slowly able to be weaned off the meds and never had a recurrence as long as I worked there. The other experience I had with IMHA/AIHA was with a smooth Collie puppy a friend of mine had. He seemed fine up until about 9-10 months of age and it hit him HARD. He tested positive for the disease with the coombs tests. He wasn't so lucky though, he died a few days later.

Immune Mediated Hemolytic Anemia (IMHA) This link has a lot of info about the disease... along with the possible genetic link, its ALSO thought that it is possibly caused by over vaccinating, over exposuer to some chemicals, or heavy metals.. or zinc etc..

And a 12.5yr old dog that died of spleen cancer doesn't sound to uncommon! Again, do you have any proof to back up the claim it was caused by the food she ate??? I'm guessing no, since everytime someone asks you questions like this you don't reply to the questions.

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Originally Posted by Karen

To just use this one statement as an example -

Remember, you have no proof that your dog's illnesses were caused by their food. How can you state that the spleen cancer was because of Science Diet and table scraps? Do you have any scientific data to support that? And where did you get that data? It is scientifically unsound to just make assumptions, and to try to convince others based on your own guesses is just not right.

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Ding ding ding we have a winner. And I'm not trying to slurp up to the owner of the forum. :D

There is more than a little epidemiology evidence of a breed genetic link to cancer. If you're dog is carrying an increased load of oncogenes around as a side effect from hap hazzard breeding a couple generations ago, it matters not what you feed them. Sooner or later those genes will turn on.

Per the religion of dog food, outside of my two beasties helping themselves to a natural barf diet of deer parts in the forest they have no digestive problems. With my female approaching 5, and my male approaching 4.5 yrs they have eaten Large Puppy Propet all their lives. If too young then I'll throw in my previous dog of 11 years. No allergies, no metabolic disorders, good weight control, and high energy levels (or so the deer and squirrels will atest to). I'll admit to supplementing their diets with 1000 mg of fish oil for their two daily meals. This was in response to my male having excess dander which is probably a left over consequence of puppy mange when he was 8 weeks old. It has helped a little. But most important of all besides the continued good health is the fact both enjoy eating their "dry" food - 20 secs to 2 minutes at most it's gone.

It matters not to me which new fad diet comes out, or the next and greatest dog food advertised. As long as mine are healthy, and enjoying their little (80 lb, 68 lb) doggy lives they will remain on the food they are on now. There's absolutely no reason to shop around for trouble.

Just for reference, we actually learned about protein in class today, and I learned some surprising information... I created a new thread so as not to take over this one, but I think some of you may be interested in what I learned. I'm open for discussion, too, since I am still learning if you have ANYTHING to add please do!

http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=139993

The other members of OurDogsOnline are very respectable and knowledgable. Mordanna, the owner of the site, is incredibly knowledgable in dog nutrition and other aspects of dog ownership. I don't want to give that forum a bad reputation as it's wonderful. :) I've met a handful of the members personally and they are very nice people. :)

Taken from http://www.dogfoodproject.com/ :

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I'm answering many, many emails from people asking questions about dog foods on a daily basis. One of the most common topics is dog owners second-guessing themselves after buying a product they read somewhere is "highly rated" or got a "high grade" in some reviews but their dog does poorly on it.

They now wonder whether it was a good idea to switch foods in the first place and if they should go back to the old food, even though the ingredients may not be so great.

The best advice I can give is keep in mind that your dog is an individual and any reviews you come across will always be based on generalities. If your dog has a delicate digestive system, a grain free food may be nice, but the high fat percentage most of them have can pose a major problem.

If you have a dog who is prone to bloat, a very nutrient dense high-calorie food may also not be ideal, even though "popular" reviews may not rate lower fat, lower calorie foods particularly highly.

Brown rice may be more nutritious than white rice, but a dog with a sensitive stomach may benefit from the product that contains white rice, which has had its (sometimes irritating) bran layer already removed.

The bottom line: What's more important to you: how well a food works out for your dog, or what some unknown person (who may or may not even be aware of differing needs in individual dogs) thinks about a product?

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*shrug*