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I don't plan on doing it but a interesting debate came up the other night when my cousin came over and was joking around saying I should tattoo Milo or peirce him.
I said no that's cruel and he said why they get microchips put in them how is it different. It got me thinking and it's kind of true. Then my own thinking was breeders used to and some still do tattoo their dogs how is tattoo them any different?
Putting aside that it would be a stupid fashion statment what do you think?
My neighbors grandson tried to pierce the ears of a stray cat. I ended up kicking his butt and he never tried it again. My family ended up taking in the stray and he was our first cat. He was the best kitty ever.
Back in the 80's, I heard of the piercing being done but never saw it personally.
I'd never do it.
First of all, Micro-chipping is not a fashion statement, and it saves animals lives each an every day. I think the best thing about Micro-chipping is that it really doesn't have any disadvantages. Tattooing an animal, is not what I would consider cruel unless it is done in a bad way I guess. I don't like the branding crap they do to cattle. I can only imagine how badly hot iron on the skin hurts. I guess it would be okay with me as long as it wasn't for fashion and it doesn't hurt the animal in anyway. Piercing is another story. Now, first of all, I don't even have my ears pierced. I AM TERRIFIED of even getting that done, so what makes you think I would do something to my dog that I wouldn't even get done on myself? Secondly, I see it as a safety issue. What if you're not home and the stupid earring gets caught on something...OUCH! I can only imagine how much that would hurt a dog to get a needle through its skin.
Well that was my two cents for all it's worth..I don't have any problem with this on people but when it's on an animal as a fashion statement I get mad. ANIMALS ARE LIVING, BREATHING THINGS. NOT accessories.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maltese_Love
Tatooing a phone number/id number which may save your pet's life is one thing. As is microchipping.
However, tatooing or piercing for "cosmetic" reasons is, beyond a doubt, terribly cruel, IMO.
WHY would anyone ever even consider that??
If they are being pierced or tattooed for any purpose other than identification or for some health reason... then I do not agree with it.
However, I have heard of tattooing used as a form of ID -- they will get an ID number tattooed on the inside of their ear (I believe) and it's used the same as a microchip. Obviously that isn't a popular method and I would much prefer a microchip :)
Both my boys were tattooed while asleep for their neutering.
I found this about microchips:
What is Microchipping?
The article goes on to say to add a collar and ID tag.Quote:
"Microchips" are small computer chips about the size of a rice grain. A veterinarian injects the chip under your cat's skin. Most cats tolerate this minor procedure with no problem.
The chip contains your cat's identifying information and can be read by a special scanner. If your cat gets lost and is taken to an animal shelter, most shelters can scan the information on the chip, identify your cat, and get her home to you.
Having your cat microchipped is a good way to help her get home if she ever becomes lost.
As for tattooing and piercing pets for 'fashion' reasons, no. I can't see your post right now so I don't recall if your friend was joking - but if he wasn't, his ego is bigger than his heart. ;) ("Hey, look at my pet!!! See what I had done! Isn't it COOL?" That's all about the owner, not the pet. JMO) :)
If I'm not mistaken, dog ear tattoos are completely different from human tattoos. If I remember correctly, a special tool is pressed into the ears, creating tiny holes. A colored dye is then rubbed into the ears, staining the holes.
It's not like a human tattoo - which requires a needle repeatedly injecting color underneath the skin. Totally different. Non-comparable. Dogs should never get pierced or tattoo'd for purely cosmetic purposes.
Well said. And anyone who agrees with it or sees nothing wrong with it needs a swift kick in the arse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giselle
Ditto!!Quote:
Tatooing a phone number/id number which may save your pet's life is one thing. As is microchipping.
However, tatooing or piercing for "cosmetic" reasons is, beyond a doubt, terribly cruel, IMO.
WHY would anyone ever even consider that??
Dog tattooing for ID was common -- BEFORE microchipping was developed. (OK, back in the dinnosaur age). Very few vets do it anymore, the microchip is more reliable. My friend's first Akita was tattooed. She lived 13 year, he had no dog for 2 years, then got his second Akita in May. He was talking about getting her tattooed, and I told him that was 'old school.' Sure enugh, when he took her to the vet for the spay, the vet explained he doesn't tatoo anymore, it is all microchipping.
I think it would be horrible to tattoo or pierce pet, especially for fashion. what, wre you going to have the tattoo removed when you don't like it anymore? (Some people do, so why not?) People know the pain they are facing having something "elective" done. Pets do not. If people are doing this, then I think someone should pass a law prohibiting it.
Stupid humans never cease to amaze me. They're always trying to turn their pets into people. Tattoos as a fashion statement? Are you kidding me? Animals are not accessories! If it's done for ID purposes, maybe. But piercings? C'mon! Is there any balance in the world any more? Are people's lives so pathetic that they have to resort to stuff like this? What animals need besides the basics for survival are love, compassion and good vet care. How about a big dose of that? Fashionable clothes and tattoos and piercings...that's stuff for humans!!!!
I'm not sure where you live... but in Canada that is certainly not true. Every dog , when spayed or neutered, is tattooed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
Brandee was tatood at the shelter once she was spayed. I thought it was kind of extreme to do to prove that she was altered, but I had no choice. I thought a certificate would suffice. They explained to me that it'll save her an "exporatory" surgery if she's ever lost and rehomed. And, it was done while she was under anesthesia. I can't imagine it being done while she was awake! So, in that instance, I guess I kind of see why it's necessary, but now days, who would even think to look for the stupid tatoo? It's burried under her fur! They probably wouldn't find it until they had her on the table and were getting ready to shave her for the surgery. The more I type, the more I see that I'm on the fence about tattoos as a means of alter notifications. I'm totally against it for fashion sake...piercing too. Stupid, stupid, stupid!
I've thought about those too,
It's crewl in a way, but if I had to choose I'd go with pericing an ear instead a tattoo. But I'll never do it either unless I buy a pet that's already had a pericing done and it's too late. I seen a bunny (BIG Lion head) with a periced ear, this girl was holding him I never thought of the pain as I think getting your ears periced is a fast thing, altho I don't know as I've never gotten my ears periced lol. I know pet's are not accessories but just because someone has a tattoo or periced pet does not mean they don't love them just as anyone else, maybe they never thought of the pain when getting it done or maybe they got them that way.
It seems unnecessarily cruel to put an animal through something like that just to make it "cute." Not to mention I can imagine dogs and cats ripping their ears off if they were forced to wear earrings.
I personally can't imagine why anyone would think such a thing would improve their pet's appearance, much less consider doing it!
The needles are pretty much identical. The only difference is that the needle for microchipping is a slightly bigger gauge. However, microchipping has a very useful purpose. Tattoos as well, but they fade, get covered with fur, and are sometimes hard to find the owner's info through. A little pain comes with these procedures, however, it's over shortly. A little numbness for a day or two and the dog or cat is fine.
Piercings, however, would always be exposed. The piercing would get knocked around constantly which would risk it getting pulled out (additional, greater pain). If by some miracle it didn't get pulled out, it would take a long, long time to heal (if it ever healed at all). Dogs get in bizarre places, like to roll around in god knows what, thus exposing the wound to a plethora of bacteria and potential infections.
I said..
So I don't get why everyone is saying it would be a stupid fashion statment..Quote:
Putting aside that it would be a stupid fashion statment what do you think?
I really hope your not saying that directed at me. If you read my post you would see I said I WOULDN'T do it. I just though it was a interested deabate because if you were to say you periced your pet people would freak and say your cruel because it's painful. Yet microchips hurt just as much. And um clothes for pets is kind of a nessicary thing for my cats.Quote:
Stupid humans never cease to amaze me. They're always trying to turn their pets into people. Tattoos as a fashion statement? Are you kidding me? Animals are not accessories! If it's done for ID purposes, maybe. But piercings? C'mon! Is there any balance in the world any more? Are people's lives so pathetic that they have to resort to stuff like this? What animals need besides the basics for survival are love, compassion and good vet care. How about a big dose of that? Fashionable clothes and tattoos and piercings...that's stuff for humans!!!!
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I was thinking that too but then I remember that in the wild they tag tigers,lions etc ears which to me would have more of a chance of getting caught.Quote:
Piercings, however, would always be exposed. The piercing would get knocked around constantly which would risk it getting pulled out
Piercings are no good for animals. When they itch they might rip it out. Or when they roll, play, ect... They have no idea that they have to be careful around this thing somebody stuck through them. It not a matter of pain when the peircing is done, its a matter of how easily they can damage themselves when they rip it out.
Tattoos I'm ok with for id purposes and to show information about them being altered. I live in an area where most places still don't check for microchips, so a visible option is great.
In Denmark, cats are earmarked/tatooed when they get spayed/neutered/vaccinated etc. Fister had it done when he was about a year old, and of course, it's done while under anesthesia, so it's not painful for them. :)
The cat I found in he backyard this summer, was earmarked too, that's why I found the owner. I started the search by ringing my vet to see if he knew the cat - he did (Charlie). So I got the telephone no. to the owners and they could come and get him. :) He lived 10 min. walk away.
Although I think it's a good idea to microchip pets, I would not have been able to find the owner that fast.
People having pets tatooed for other reasons than identification, I find really stupid!! Vets should not allow it!!
Microchipping is from all outward appearances not a painful experience. Dogs and cats receive them in the scruff of their necks usually or a bit lower down and it is much like a vaccine but as someone mentioned in an earlier post, a larger gauge needle is used but not that much larger. I've seen cats and dogs receive these and they don't even flinch. If it were for any other reason other than i.d. I wouldn't be for it but it helps get lost animals home so I think it's great.
I think the tattooes in the ear are a good idea as well. In this location they usually don't get covered by fur providing they are placed high enough up on the ear flap and that they are done well (i.e. legible). All vet clinics and shelters have a list of the codes used for tattooes so if a person finds a cat or a dog and calls any clinic or shelter, the code can be looked up to find out which vet clinic or shelter did the tattoo and then from there the owner can be found.
I run a website for lost and found pets and one of the things I usually tell people is to make sure they keep their contact information current with the hospital or shelter that actually did the tattoo. If the family moves and forgets to update this information the tattoo becomes entirely useless.
I am 100% against piercing and tattooing for cosmetic reasons (designs or words that are not used for i.d.). The piercing could lead to infection as others have mentioned and if a ring was used instead of a stud it could get caught on any number of things, including the animals own claws and could rip the ear or whatever part of the body is pierced. It would be so selfish to turn a pet into an accessory like that.
p.s. this is not directed at you Buttercup132 but just at the idea itself. :)
Aww those are so cute!
Although I'm sure most people would disagree:rolleyes:
I don't think I could do it though because my cats lick themselves.
Microchip needles are very large! Where I work the vets refuse to microchip without tranquilizing the pet first. When an owner balks at doing that they brings up one of the needles to show them and they readily agree then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emeraldgreen
Not all places have a list of codes for tatoos. In our area (at least 5 counties worth anyways) we don't have any type of system to keep track of tatoos. We only have maybe 5-6 tatooed dogs that come in out of all the animals we see, and no one knows what the tatoos mean or how to track them down, all the tatooed ones were strays and not all were spayed/neutered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emeraldgreen
Around here microchipping is the only ID method we use, not just the place I work for either. Microchips can be scanned by any vet/shelter, and there is a national database for each company that keeps the info for each microchipped pet. Our computer system doesn't have any means of tracking tatoos and as far as I know there are no national data bases for tatoos, although I can't say that part for a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
CathyBogart, I would agree that small animals, especially tiny kittens would certainly feel the injection of a microchip and I think it would be uncomfortable for them. I was thinking more about adult cats and adult dogs. I have seen the larger gauged needles and the injections themselves and the adult cats and dogs did very well with it. However, I would not want to put a smaller animal or baby animal through that and would wait until they were full grown.
I hope that in the near future they will be able to create even smaller microchips than the ones they have today so even the small guys can be chipped without any pain.
The tattooed daisy applied by the tattoo artist would surely differentiate his dog from another if someone stole it but it wouldn't help get his dog home if it was lost unless he also had it tattooed with a number or had it microchipped.
Catlady777- I don't know, maybe the needles are smaller here in Canada?!? I used to help out at a vet clinic through help with a shelter and witnessed lots of microchipping and while the needles were larger they weren't alarming and I'm a huge softie when it comes to animals. I'd be the first one to worry about that but witnessing so many of them get the quick injection, and as mentioned without even flinching. The majority were larger dogs though so perhaps my view is skewed and I'm thinking mostly of that. It was quite a few years ago.
I'm fairly certain that the clinics in Canadian provinces (the western ones at least) do have records of all the tattoo codes in a book that is provided I think by the BCVMA (b.c. vet. medical assoc.) so if a cat is brought in by someone who found it wandering around on the streets of Vancouver, and it had a tattoo from Edmonton, they'd be able to look it up, call the clinic and then call the family. We managed to get a few animals home that had tattooes from out of province but had moved to B.C. It's an awesome system and one that I hope the States adopts because it's really effective. Microchipping does seem to be the more popular choice these days but in the meantime, the tattooes work great.
I would not mind getting my dog a tatoo on her belly with her indentification, but again how about if i change phone number? Thats permanent is it? I rather go with the microchip which she has. I myself would NEVER get my pet a peircing thats just crazy, i know pain comes with that.
I myself been thinking about getting a tatoo myself and i know i can take the pain so i dont mind, but my pet? Nah i will leave it as it is.
The tattoos here in B.C. are a combination of letters and numbers. Each year the BCVMA chooses a letter that will be used and the other letter is one that is specific for each clinic. The numbers are chosen numerically so on January first, the first tattoo at a clinic might be JF001 (the letter J would be a clinic if that was their letter and the letter F would be the 2008 letter provided by the BCVMA, not sure what letter they are going with, just using that as an example and the number 001 would reflect the first patient being tattooed at that clinic in 2008. The books the BCVMA distributes to all the clinics each new year has all the clinics letter combinations so tattoo letters can be easily looked up to locate the hospital. There is also a section with the letters of clinics in nearby provinces, or at least there used to be.
If a person moves and changes their phone number, they just need to provide the new phone number to the hospital or shelter that did the tattoo so they can update the records.
I agree, tattooing a phone number on a pet would be a big commitment and because phone numbers so often change, probably not a good idea. :)
Okay, I stand corrected: GREYHOUND ear tattoos are the ones I was talking about - special tool puncturing holes and rubbing dye into the holes. I watched a little video on how people do contemporary identification tattoos on a dog, and it's actually very similar to human tattoos. *shrugs* I think the greyhound ear tats are quicker and less painful in that sense.
And, the microchip needle is HUGE. I don't know what company you (in Canada) use, but both HomeAgain and ResQ have huge needles. After the microchip is inserted, you have to hold the flap of skin shut to avoid letting the microchip slip back out. My dogs didn't have a problem with it, but I've seen other dogs/cats who have. I do think a lot of it has to do with the individual animal's pain tolerance.
One of the companies that I am familiar with is AVID. I looked at their site just now and the needle is listed as a 12 gauge needle. Looking at the photo of the needle, it is the one used at the clinic and it definitely is bigger than a vaccine syringe and I think you're right Giselle, it would depend on the pain tolerance of the animal. What I remember is that there wasn't any yelping or painful noises coming from the animals and there wasn't any sedation used or glue and it was all done so quickly, all within less than a minute that maybe it just appeared to be relatively painfree but just because it was fast and quiet should not be an indicator for pain and I could be completely wrong. In any case, I don't like animals to suffer, not even for a moment and there is no way I can honestly know what that needle would feel like and I'm sure it would hurt like hell if I got a shot with it. Most of my pets have tattooes instead of microchips that they received while they were already under anesthesia for spay/neuter. It's quite a bit cheaper than the microchip and reasonably effective here in B.C.
I guess my main objective is to help animals get back home when they're lost because of my work in that area for the past 3 years and the microchip is a tool to help with that but for smaller pets, and who knows, maybe all pets, it may be an uncomfortable option. As mentioned before, I hope they will come up with a teenie chip that will be virtually painless. That would be great. :)
I don't agree with piercing or tattooing for cosmetic purposes. And only agree with tattoos for identification..
However, at one point while I was in highschool, the newest fad going around was to pierce your dogs ears.. I would never have done it, but I do remember when I would go to Petsmart and Petco there would be people walking their dogs around with their ears pierced... The majority of them were people with pit bulls and etc.. I also worked at the humane society, and we had a couple dogs come in that had it done.
I think it's pretty cruel.
Tatoos might have different systems that not all can read, but at least on immediate sight you can tell that the animal had an owner once and/or was altered. A facility can read microchips because they own the machine, but a regular person who finds the dog doesn't own the equipment to reada chip. A tattoo is a major identification mark visible to all.
Ugh. That reminds me of a dog I saw at the dog beach. It was a pittie with a genital piercing. :mad: :eek: I really don't get some people..Quote:
Originally Posted by molucass
There probably is some pain involved with microchipping. However, momentary pain and size of needle aside, there is a valid, important purpose for microchipping. It very well could be the difference between life and death, between happiness and torture for your pet. I would gladly, a thousand times over, inflict the few moments of pain on my pet to get them microchipped, if it meant they would be returned to me if lost.
Cosmetic piercing or tattooing, however, is simply pointless to the animal. It is pain, risk of injury and infection, etc. for no reason whatsoever.