Help with Brutus Please!

Okay, here is the deal. Brutus is a great dog, and I love him to pieces, but some things concern me. I am not concerned for me, but for him. He came from a very abusive home, and has been adjusting quite well. He is still pretty skitish about certain things, but has greatly improved in the months we have had him. His headshyness has also improved, once in a great while you will notice it, but not like bfore where you couldnt move your hands at all without him ducking. Anyways, the problem with him now is his excitement level over affection. I realize that to him affection is like a gift from god, compared to how he was treated before, but he just gets way too excited! Now matter hom many times I pet him a day, each time it is like the first and last time!! He goes bannanas!! He loves to be patted, and will do anything to get as close to you as he can, even so much as trying to jump in your lap! For a Rpttweiler, that is alot of dog, in your lap! Anyways, it just seems to not get any better. He piddles everytime he gets excited, so Of course he piddles everytime to gets petted! He gets tons of excersise, even to the point where he passes out! but if you wake him up, and call him over, it is just like he hasnt seen you in months, and goes insane!! the point of all of this is, how can I get him to calm down some?? I am afraid he will have a darn Heart attack!! Thats how excuted he gets!! Shoudl I even be worried about this?? do you think he will calm down at all on his own?? I have never had a dog so starved for affection before!! And boy is he starving!! Any tips or Tricks?? I just want my boy to be happy!! That is all I ask of him.

The other concern is tied into his excitement level, how the heck can I train him when he gets so excited?? I cannot get him to calm down enough to work on things like stay, laydown ect... which I need to teach him, as a rottweiler, and their bad hips and elbows, I want to be able to place him in a lay or sit stay command, for when i am busy, other wise he will ge up and down everytime I do, and it just isnt good for his Joints. Rottis are renowned fro their Velcro status, and with all our other Rottis a sit stay was Imperative to ensure good joints. Otherwise they will just wear themselves out, by being up your butt, litterally! Any tips or Tricks??

we have had Brutus for 3 months now and he is 4yrs old.

I hope this makes some sense, as I seem to have babbled again!

Well as a big dog owner with a very excitable boy I understand your delima. Just the other morning Bon was so happy to eat breakfast he jumped up and hit me right in the bread basket:eek: Knocked the wind right out of me!
I ignore him every morning, don't say a word, but he still does it. So believe me, I know how you feel.

I'm not sure if this is of any help, but here's what one website says. Needless to say it doesn't help me...but it might you:)

http://www.petdoctor.com.au/2005/07/12/training-tips/

Also taking him to school would probably be great for him, if he gets along with other dogs that is.

Good luck!

Try this; maybe you already have.

You start to give him attention. The MOMENT he starts getting wound up and excited, you stop. Just do not move, do NOT look at him, breathe slowly and calmly, and wait. May take 3 or 5 minutes the first time, but when you stop responding he will HAVE to slow down as well. (Won't he??? LOL) Just stand there in a calm comfortable pose, looking anywhere but at him. It will take time for you to figure out what is the FIRST indication he is getting excited. Is it an ear movement? A head tip? A front paw that lifts as he gets ready to bound and bounce? Once you figure that out, the instant you see that signal you stop midstep and WAIT. Once he slows down and wonders what to do next, you calmly say, "Good boy, Brutus." Not an excited, "Good BOY, Brutus!" Give him a small pet and WALK AWAY. Until next time.

It will take some time but this may help. The hardest part is finding that initial cue that he is ready to rock! Good luck.

I agree with Freedom.

Easy answer is to ignore him when he gets excited and reward him when he's relatively calm. You may feel mean ignoring him, but if you pet him when he's bonking you upside the head, you're rewarding him for being overly physical. All dogs are allowed to be excited. That's normal and healthy. But bumping into you, demanding to be in your lap, and excitement urination are not healthy behaviors. If you ignore him when he's excited and reward him when he's calm, he will stop peeing and the other behaviors will subside.

Re: training - same thing. At one point in your day, Brutus is at a controllable level. Train him during this part of the day (late evening may be a good time). If he's getting overly excited, cross your arms, look away, and ignore him. Train him when he's gotten a grip on himself. Tough love :)

Also, the process of getting up/laying down repeatedly will not necessarily exacerbate arthritis. It may cause pain, but it's not necessarily "bad" for his joints the way you were describing. Running on concrete and stairs and strenuous exercise may impact Brutus' joints, but getting up/down has very little effect on the joints themselves.

You've gotten some good advice here already. I think the 3 words to
remember with training are, "exercise,discipline, affection ". Try to see that
he gets lots of excercise to wear him out & training on obedience (commands)
every day, before he earns affection.

I don't know what you think of Cesar Milan's ideas about dogs, I think he's
got it right with the order for successful interaction with our dogs. :)

Thanks for all the great advice!! I will do my best to Mkae Brutus a Happy, but well behaved boy!!

Anna- I would love to take Brutus to a Obedience class, but The problem I have run into with Owning rotts, is that there just isnt anyone around here that will work with them! and the few Places I have found that will take them are places like Petsmart! I dont feel confident that Petsmart would be of any help for us, except for Socialization, which I already do!

Gisselle- I have had many Rotts, and every single one of them had Hip, elbow and spine problems. I am just being cautious, there is no harm in that. I want my boy to live a long and happy life. This is the problem with Rescue dogs, it is pretty much guranteed they came from BYB's, so their health is always an issue. and on top of this, we do have some concrete floors, as well as many stairs.

Lizbud-I just Love Ceasar!! He is my Hero!! :D

Along with what others have suggested... I would implement NILIF. NO petting, unless he is politely sitting. NO treats, unless he is politely sitting. etc, etc, etc. I know that you're tempted to smother him with affection, since he's from an abusive home, but that is not necessarily what is best for him. He needs limits, too.

A lot of what causes excitement/urination is just a response to your excitement. No high pitched voices, or anything super stimulating, while you're petting him. Ignore him if he's jumping all over and peeing. He will learn to feed off of your calm energy.

I have no good advice, just empathy on this subject. This was the issue I had with my Sibe puppy that I loved so dearly. He was only a few months old and he literally would plow me down and hurt me. It became a huge safety issue for me, and a tough decision to take him back to his breeder. I know I have made a few "enemies" here because of that decision, but i am not a physcially strong person, have bad knees, bad ankles and back. I could NOT afford to be injured seriously and laid up with another broken bone. I was off of my foot for a YEAR from a break a few years ago.

Anyway, back on the topic! My Coco is the same way, but thank GOD she is full grown and will not really become a large dog. She is however strong enough to cause me to lose my balance if I am not prepared! I know that the ignore and turn your back thing sounds good, but it's only good until they plow you over while your back is turned ... right? :eek: :p I've started doing the step on her toes things, which does make her get down, but now she is smart enough to step back quickly! LOL! Luckily though, she is slowly learning to settle down!

Henna will be a big girl, but she is not much of a jumper and is already learning to listen to my commands! I think I started early enough with her and she will not hurt me!

I wish you luck with your big boy!!! I do empathize! ;)

Kim

I dunno...

I would NEVER allow either of my dogs to plow me over; any dog, really. A lot of it is simply your body language, and whether or not you tolerate the jumping. Some people actually encourage their dog to jump up without even realizing it - just by their body language, or the tone of their voice. It's basic manners, that should be taught from day one. I used to walk a 100+ lb Rottie when I was 12 years old... he wouldn't dare plow me over.

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Originally Posted by bckrazy

Along with what others have suggested... I would implement NILIF. NO petting, unless he is politely sitting. NO treats, unless he is politely sitting. etc, etc, etc. I know that you're tempted to smother him with affection, since he's from an abusive home, but that is not necessarily what is best for him. He needs limits, too.

A lot of what causes excitement/urination is just a response to your excitement. No high pitched voices, or anything super stimulating, while you're petting him. Ignore him if he's jumping all over and peeing. He will learn to feed off of your calm energy.

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Now Brutus knows sit, and will do it everytime I ask, the problem is he wont stay at all, if I so much as flinch he is up. so it has been nothing but repetition for the last few months I have had him, yet still no progress. when he sits calmly, I will reach to pet him, and he is like a rubberband that just snapped! I mean he is that bad!!

I do not greet my dogs with excitement when I come into the room, or come home from work, well for that matter at all, unless we are out playing. They get ignored. I talk to them very calmly once I feel they are ready. But with Brutus, he can fool you!! You think he is calm, and then BAM!! all I have to do is pet him, and he pees! Tell him to sit and he pees, go to put his leash on and he pees!

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Originally Posted by bckrazy

I dunno...

I would NEVER allow either of my dogs to plow me over; any dog, really. A lot of it is simply your body language, and whether or not you tolerate the jumping. Some people actually encourage their dog to jump up without even realizing it - just by their body language, or the tone of their voice. It's basic manners, that should be taught from day one. I used to walk a 100+ lb Rottie when I was 12 years old... he wouldn't dare plow me over.

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Brutus dosent plow me over. He just gets excited and bounces, and spins,a nd well just goes nouts, not to mention pees. But he has never knocked me over, that is not something we allow in our home. We have kids. The dogs have to respect us and the kids. Brutus is very gentle with the kids. I couldnt as for a nicer boy. I just need him to stop getting excited over such mindane things.

Sorry... I was refering to Kim's post.

The second his butt is off the ground, and/or he is showing signs of getting over-stimulated, you should cease all petting/communication/touch, period. Just be very, very consistent and make sure your entire family gives him the same treatment. He will come around! C: Rotties are very smart pups.

Um, I didn't exactly "allow" my dog to plow me over. When you are short and no longer "12 years old" and a large dog comes running full force from behind you, you don't have alot of say in the matter. :rolleyes: Also, we had Hampton enrolled in puppy school from the time he was old enough to start. It never settled him down to the point he didn't jump on me. I need my legs, back, knees, and ankles, thank you!

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Originally Posted by kimlovescats

Um, I didn't exactly "allow" my dog to plow me over. When you are short and no longer "12 years old" and a large dog comes running full force from behind you, you don't have alot of say in the matter. :rolleyes:

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Agreed!! Sometimes you have no ontrol!

I think the point is just that what you allow is what you reinforce. If you allow Brutus to sit and then jump on you to receive praise, that behavior is reinforced. In this case, since you're having a hard time marking the right behavior, I would introduce a clicker. It's a nice way to build up confidence (which will hopefully facilitate in getting rid of the peeing), and it helps you send a clear message to Brutus.

Example: You petting him excites him. He sits, you reach down to reward him, he starts to wiggle his body and you sense he's about to pee. Stop. Walk away. Come back in. Command a "Sit", work on Stay while he's calm, and walk around him like you're inspecting him. Click and treat if he sits and stays. If he's getting too excited, walk away. Completely remove yourself from the situation. If he cannot focus because he so craves your attention, remove yourself. Brutus needs love, but he needs self control first and foremost. Since praise is too much of a reward, use food instead. Some dogs need a lower value reward to keep them in check. Sounds like praise is too much for Brutus, so just revert to plain food rewards. I, too, would implement NILIF. If nothing else, it teaches the dog that he has to work for life's necessities. Hopefully, that message will work with his craving for attention as well.

So, in short, you get what you reinforce. You reinforce what you allow. Prevent the excitement, prevent the urinating, and the behaviors will subside. The trick is how to control and prolong the good behavior. With NILIF and the clicker, your road is tough, but it's paved and waiting for you to tread on it :)

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Originally Posted by kimlovescats

Um, I didn't exactly "allow" my dog to plow me over. When you are short and no longer "12 years old" and a large dog comes running full force from behind you, you don't have alot of say in the matter. :rolleyes: Also, we had Hampton enrolled in puppy school from the time he was old enough to start. It never settled him down to the point he didn't jump on me. I need my legs, back, knees, and ankles, thank you!

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I honestly wasn't questioning rehoming your Husky at all... I'm sure it was in his best interest, and yours, that he was rehomed.

All I was saying was, yes, there are ways in which you can curb the jumping behavior all-together. Tethering to you and implementing the leash to keep the dog completely off of you, for instance. Huge jackpot rewards for sitting to be petted, for instance. There are lots of ways to go about handling it; I don't think stepping on toes directly deals with the issue, at all. If either of my dogs tried to knock me over, that would be the last time they would ever try it, that's for sure.

Especially if it involves your safety & health... I just don't see how hard it could be to teach a dog not to throw him/herself at you. But, maybe I'm unique, in that I've never been bowled over by a dog.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bckrazy

I honestly wasn't questioning rehoming your Husky at all... I'm sure it was in his best interest, and yours, that he was rehomed.

All I was saying was, yes, there are ways in which you can curb the jumping behavior all-together. Tethering to you and implementing the leash to keep the dog completely off of you, for instance. Huge jackpot rewards for sitting to be petted, for instance. There are lots of ways to go about handling it; I don't think stepping on toes directly deals with the issue, at all. If either of my dogs tried to knock me over, that would be the last time they would ever try it, that's for sure.

Especially if it involves your safety & health... I just don't see how hard it could be to teach a dog not to throw him/herself at you. But, maybe I'm unique, in that I've never been bowled over by a dog.

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I'm sorry if I took your post the wrong way. I admit, that I am far from a dog expert. My "expertise" lies in cats! ;) I found the "step on the toes" thing online. I have no idea what most of the terms used here even mean, much less how to properly implement them. For instance, tethering and implementing the leash is foreign language to me! :eek:

I could certainly use help, as I want the best for my dogs, and I do NOT want to have to rehome another because of my inexperience!

Kim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kimlovescats

I'm sorry if I took your post the wrong way. I admit, that I am far from a dog expert. My "expertise" lies in cats! ;) I found the "step on the toes" thing online. I have no idea what most of the terms used here even mean, much less how to properly implement them. For instance, tethering and implementing the leash is foreign language to me! :eek:

I could certainly use help, as I want the best for my dogs, and I do NOT want to have to rehome another because of my inexperience!

Kim

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tethering and Implementing the leash= Having the dog leashed, and with you at all times, so they have no oppurtunity to jump up, or do anything else naughty.

As far as the Toes thing, I have used that one myself, Duke was a horrible Jumper when he was younger, and I have to say that trick worked! :D Whether it was right or wrong, it worked.