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There was a thread somewhere asking about the price of a Min Pin. I typed "why to breed your dog" into Google after I read that thread, and I found this article. There are things in it that I did not know. These are pretty stringent guidelines but I think appropriately so.
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/reason10.html
Great article. I think both threads have been canned! But this is great!
Personally I can't think of ANY reason to bred a dog. With over 1 million animals being put to sleep every year. There are more then enough choices and lives to save before starting another one.
Respectfully, I disagree. We should be breeding purebreds only, of good quality and health. I take issue with people who say we shouldn't be breeding dogs. What happens when our current purebreds are not bred and pass their breeding age? Then what are we left to breed with? Shelter mutts of unknown ancestry - hardly a good foundation for a dog breed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marigold2
And i disagree with the both of you. Dogs of sound mind and health should be bred. Not JUST purebreds. Purebreds are actually a VERY recent trend in the history of the domesticated dog. No different than the trend of the designer dogs (other than that the Purebred world has evolved a bit to be more responsible.)
I do agree though that NO dog should be bred as a means of profit. (And unless you are asking large sums a properly cared for pack will usually leave you in the red... speaking of their costs vs. the price you are asking.)
Excellent article.
Purebreds often have more health and behavior problems that mutts. Some of the very best dogs come from shelters.
Ah Crow....what am I to do with you ?????Quote:
Originally Posted by crow_noir
As usual, you are so very right !!!!
Responsible breeding is all that matters.
Wom
Yes they do, and perhaps in past millenia, it was the survival of the fittest that knocked them out. These days however, they simply survive because of us humans.Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom
I have a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel....great dog....lots of problems. I even knew that before I bought her. those dogs are notorious for spinal problems and respiratory problems, but I knew that....and live with that.
Perhaps that particular designer breed (being only a handful of centuries old) could never survive ourtside the domestic home.
Wom
Hug me and tell me you'll take me in as your dog in my next life?
Eh, it was just a suggestion.
(I just hope i come back as something handsome. ...Though i doubt that I'll be allowed to come back as a dog if i don't learn to get my temper under control.)
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Originally Posted by wombat2u2004
Mate.....new kennel being built as we speak !!!!! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by crow_noir
Wom
Great article. If only everyone read that before they decided to breed.
Marigold, I disagree with you. It isn't the fault of responsible breeders that we have so many unwanted dogs in the world. It's because of the thousands of BYBs and Puppy Mills. If we had nothing but mutts and no purebreds, it'd be very difficult for me to find a dog that fits my needs as there are very few breeds that fit me and vice versa. Another problem we have is that unless somebody does an internet search, the education just isn't out there. People have no idea whatsoever much of the time that what they're doing isn't right.
Lunasmom, I also disagree with you (well, not about the part that some of the best dogs come from shelters). It's a common myth that mixes are healthier. It all has to do with lines, genes, etc. At least reputable breeders health test their dogs to limit the chances of any health issues ever occuring. Mutts certainly don't have that going for them. I've met just as many mutts with health and temperament issues as I have purebreds. Sure, there are some breeds that have tons of health and temperament issues, but many don't.
By the way, none of what I've said is meant to put any disrespect towards mutts/mixes. I love mutts.
it's ok, except for #9
Both parents have proper Dachshund temperament :)
Terrific article. Should be required reading before being allowed to breed! (No idea how to enforce that, it was just a thought, he he.)
I think in the introduction to the article it says that although the writer focused on Dachshunds, that it was considered applicable to dogs in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by vinjashira
Somewhere on Pet Talk I read that the goal of breeding an animal is to advance and improve the breed. I had that in mind as I read this article. For myself, I have adopted one pet from a shelter and I would do so again. My cat was already spayed when I adopted her. I would have a neutered or spayed pet in the future - if the procedure hadn't already been done, I would arrange for it. And leave "pet parenting" to experts.
GS dogs got 'snappy' a few years ago, supposedly due to the purebred factor...Golden Retrievers are prone to cancer...my sister's/Mom's Oriental Shorthairs have a genetic tendency to have their teeth dissolve back into their gums (by age 6, both had just their fangs left!)
The breeds are improved...but they develop so many problems in common with others of the same breed.
And I pity the animal, who didn't ask for these troubles. Of course, for all I know, many breeders ARE doing their best to breed out health problems. But all that seems to matter at the shows is their physical APPEARANCE, which is not the same thing.
JMO
Has anyone been testing Mixed breeds for any health problems?Hips,heart,elbows,eyes and so on...Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom
Not that I know of..Just because you don't see a problem does not mean it's not there.
Breeding dogs is always a crap shoot.You test and learn lines,and hope you are doing the right thing.In the end it's all up to the genes.
I'm sure that's why they go to the vet...Quote:
Originally Posted by rutylr
Fantastic article! Thanks for sharing! :)
I only have purebreds but I love mutts too! I volunteer for shelters and rescues and even adopted one of my purebreds. Remember that you can find purebreds in shelters too!
However, I'm also all for responsible breeders too! With Keeva, I went through A LOT of breeders until I found an ACTUAL honest-to-god responsible breeder that I fully approved of. There's a Belgian breeder in Calgary who seems reputable. He shows his dogs, is fairly well known in the Belgian world and has beautiful dogs. He answered everything correctly. He told me he'd take the dog back if I ever decided on rehoming the dog. He told me the parents were free of hip, eye and elbow problems. He told me that his line was free of epilepsy. He fed good food, and didn't have litters very often. He *seemed* like a fantastic breeder, the perfect breeder really. I like to talk to others involved with Belgians and as a result, I found out that one of his pups had epilepsy. He actually took the pup back from the owners and ended up sending the dog to the US to have it become a show dog (who would later be bred and increase the breed's problem with epilepsy).
I intend on breeding Malinois because the breed is far from perfect. People choose to get purebreds because they want a dog with certain traits. I wanted a high-drive, real deal working dog. A dog with high intelligence, herding instinct, a stable temperment and free of any genetic health problems. That should easily apply to all dogs of this breed.. but it didn't. Keeva was a rare find, which is sad cause I was only asking for a healthy Malinois.
Responsible breeders are not the ones who are ruining the breeds, creating health problems and filling shelters with dogs. However, responsible breeders are few and far between.
That's why so often dog shows annoy the hell out of me... what good are they ACTUALLY doing for the dogs?!
The other Day PBS aired a program about ferrets. I planned on watching it with S.O. Well it wasn't on when he thought it was so i looked it up. Then i read that the program was about ferret breeding and showing. I was like "oh brother!" and almost didn't bother watching. I'm so glad i did though. The tiny look into the ferret world is so refreshing! They are judged pretty much only on health and temperment!!! Whoooo! The only looks that are judged is the part that reflects the health. Markings only place them in a category.
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Originally Posted by Catty1
*nods enthusiastically*Quote:
Originally Posted by rutylr
Reproduction is NEVER fail-proof. Yes, there are many diseases rampant in purebred dogs, but there is a plethora of organizations that breeders can use to test their stock to cull diseased dogs from their bloodlines (by cull, I mean alter the dog).
To say that mixed breeds are healthier is a false assumption. Hip, eye, heart, knee, thyroid, cancer, liver diseases and more can usually not be detected in one sitting. These are diseases that generally develop over time and need consistent testing to diagnose. Most mixed breed breeders by-pass these important tests, so it is an unfounded claim to say that mixed breeds are healthier than purebreds. The problem does not lie in the breed. The problem lies in plain old human error.
There is one thing about breeding, MAKE SURE that you have people PRE-ARRANGED for the puppies or kittens or whatever you breed to go to when they are born. NEVER breed profit! Breeding for profit is a lost cause.
People like most of us on pet talk disagree with breeding so we dont do it. BUT there is all ways someone in the world who will breed pets. ALL WAYSQuote:
Originally Posted by theterrierman
Just my two cents on breeding.
Everyone has the right to breed this is true,but you owe it to the people who started your breed to breed the best you can.As close to their written standard as you can(this does not mean you have to breed to what is winning in the show ring)...As I feel in my breed what is winning right now is not correct,but it is what is winning....
Think about why your breed was started,and the goal the founding fathers or mothers had in mind when they got to gether and started your breed of choice.
Wow, those are some of the wisest words I have heard in the discussions on pro/anti breeding. I know they were swimming around in the depths of my brain, but to see them said is WONDERFUL!
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Originally Posted by rutylr
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Originally Posted by Orangutango
I agree to some extent, however I think it has more to do with the thousands of bad owners out there. You know the ones that get a dog 'for the kids' and the kids get tired of it a year later and the adults don't want to take care of it. Or the owner who gets a pet and doesn't do their research first to see what kind of lifestyle that pet requires (lots of space to run, high energy, large dog) and then decides 'oops' and ships it off to the shelter for their own mistakes.
I think if more owners were educated about what is involved in owning a pet and how to find a reputable breeder or adopting from the shelters, there might be fewer people even buying from BYB's.
I see too much of that stuff at work and it's always the poor pet that suffers from it. But then again I think all people should have to pass a test, have their homes inspected, and have a financial consultant explain vet bills to people before they were allowed to get a pet.
And I agree with the both of you :DQuote:
Originally Posted by wombat2u2004
If I may I would like to add on to my original thought which was that there is NO reason to bred. I stand corrected.
Newfies, Bloodhounds, German Shepards and many other dogs are needed for service work. Shepards for police work, Bloodhounds for search and rescue, the list goes on. Do we need purebreads for that, perhaps for the Bloodhound and the Newfoundland? I am sure there are many others I am missing.
In my opinion what we don't need is another Cockapoo or silly mixed bred. These designer dogs do not serve a useful purpose except to make money and to sell to people as lap dog or carry tote. This is not the dogs fault. But why breed new lap dogs when there are so many wonderful dogs in a shelter? One million every year are killed and we allow it by buying dogs that are bred for profit without caring for those that need a home in shelters.
Yes I understand many people make their living showing and breeding dogs. I have no problem with that. I have a problem with the new designer dogs. And for those reponsible breeders out there, God bless you. How about sending some money to a shelter or adopting one of the dogs?
Ah, but Marigold, that means we've always been on the same page. We all are, for the most part, in favor of RESPONSIBLE breeding for the better of the breed. Canine eugenics, I guess you could say. What we are (almost) ALL against is designer breeds. This has always been the stance of most, if not all, PTers.
There never was any disagreement among any of us, from what I can tell. Words can be misunderstood easily :p
ETA: Many truly responsible breeders who love their breed participate in rescue and fostering for their breed. It's the love of the breed, not love of ribbons or awards. People who truly love their breed will do anything to find homes for each and every dog.