Living an environmentally friendly life ... is it possible? (a rant)

Sorry, this came out of a long discussion with some co-workers today. I don't know if/what the solution is to a lot of this, but I thought some people might be interested by the read. Sorry, it's long.

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With all the discussion of trying to lead a low impact to the environment lifestyle, by taking tests such as 'What is my Global Footprint', you start to think about how your lifestyle affects the world around you. For instance ...

So, lets say we go out and drive a hybrid car? Well, take the Prius for example - the batteries are produced in Sudbury, which has caused and continues to cause ecological damage on a large scale , to a point where entire tracks of wilderness are destroyed by the acid rain and other toxins, killing plants, animals and entire lake ecosystems.

Ok then, so lets drive a regular car? How does the drilling, refining and shipping oil affect things around us? Well, we've all seen what happens when a tanker runs a-ground - death to sea birds and mammals. what about the refining process? How many pollutants are sent into the atmosphere, how much runoff gets into the water tables, lakes, streams? And what about the smelting of the metals, and the casting of the plastics needed to make a car? And what happens to the car once its life is over? More scrap in yards.

So, lets say we go out and change all our lightbulbs to high efficiency light bulbs - great idea huh? What happens when they burn out? Well, they contain mercury, so just throwing them out is not a good idea as its a hazardous material, and very few recycling depots will take them. What happens to the mercury? Well, once released, vaporizes and travels northward where its ingested by animal and plant systems. And the energy to run those lights? Well, unless everyone has solar panels or wind turbines in their backyard, we're runnning off the grid -- based on energy sources such as Coal (dirty burning, generates more acid rain - killing off birds, fish, etc.) and Nuclear (how to dispose of that?).

Want to have a hot shower in the morning before work? What work went into making that water clean, and what energy is going into heating it for you? Oil? Electrical Heating from the grid?

Eat Meat? Well, unless you're getting it from an organic source, its coming from somewhere, and quite possibly a large scale farming operation. Waste runoff enters the water tables , causing sickness in people and animals. Look at what happened in Walkerton, Ontario

Buy that loaf of bread or that jar of pickles at the store? Well, if they were producted using components from large farming, then pesticides and herbicides used in the production are just as incidious, and enter the water table just the same.

Deciding to go the Vegatarian route instead? Not wearing any animal byproducts? Better hope that the pleather (pleather=polyuruthene=plastics) has been fabricated in an environmentally friendly way. Made in China? probabally not then. So your shoes have worn out? How to dispose of them now - landfills are filling up with unwanted trash (which as it breaks down can leach into the water tables) and burning them in incinerators without proper scrubbers just add more pollution to the atmosphere.

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and the problem is that the list goes on and on. Look at anything within arms reach - like your computer for instance. How (and sometimes more importantly, *where*) was it made, what impacts did the fabrication cause, and what will happen in the disposal of that product? How does it affect people, animals, birds, fish and different ecosystems in general around you and afar?

Is there any solution? How can one 'live more green'? I really am looking for input here, how are people managing to live a more green lifestyle in their own lives? And what are people willing to give up to attain that goal?

It seems that we are stuck between a rock and a hard place with this one..... when you think you are making a better choice for the environment we often don't look past the here and now..... "When I drive this car I release less pollutants into the air" we don't think about what went into the making of this vehicle or what will happen when that vehicle no longer runs.... are you really helping or are you making things worse?

I know I DEFINATELY did not think about what happens when those lightbulbs burn out. it seems like such a good idea.... conserve energy... etc etc.... I can honestly say I didn't think about 20 years from now when those lightbulbs are no longer any good.

Hmmmmm quite perplexing. Unless of course we all just stop driving all together but then again... if we do that what happens to all the scrap? Rock and a hard place.

Well, the car thing is absolutly right. But maybe everyone should ride a bike, horseback ride or walk to places instead of riding in a car. Just an idea.

Do the benefits of switching to high efficiency light bulbs outweigh the risks of mercury exposure after they're discarded? I just started using my first high efficiency light bulb a few weeks ago.

Until electricity and gasoline get so prohibitively expensive that people are forced to make hard choices, I don't think there's a lot of hope for change within my generation (the "baby bust" of the late '60s and early '70s). Maybe younger people will be able to get it done because they have been brought up in a more energy- and environment-conscious society.

High efficiency fluorescents aren't. We have them in our house, and we have yet to have one last more than a year. The claims are inflated at best.

LED and LED Film lighting will be where high efficiency lighting truly comes in. (As to the LED film, imagine being able to paint your ceiling with a material and have it give off light. Over simplified, but it's being worked on)

Our house will eventually go to an on grid solar system, but that's a few years off.

Like everything else, it's not black and white. Articles like that are penned by people who are so frightened by the prospect that they might indeed be partially responsible for the state of the world after all that, by damn, they're giving up right now, and so should everybody else!

Just do your best. We're still learning, and so we're still making mistakes. I started with recycling, since my city has a good curbside program, and buying organic food now and then when I'm particularly flush. I still "sin" all the time (MOST of the time!) but it doesn't make me give up hope - a little is always better than nothing. The ultimate "solution" would be to create and disseminate a virus that would wipe Homo sapiens off the planet, and you'd have a hard time finding proponents for that (outside of PETA, anyway!)

Love, Columbine

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Originally Posted by columbine

Like everything else, it's not black and white. Articles like that are penned by people who are so frightened by the prospect that they might indeed be partially responsible for the state of the world after all that, by damn, they're giving up right now, and so should everybody else!

Just do your best. We're still learning, and so we're still making mistakes. I started with recycling, since my city has a good curbside program, and buying organic food now and then when I'm particularly flush. I still "sin" all the time (MOST of the time!) but it doesn't make me give up hope - a little is always better than nothing. The ultimate "solution" would be to create and disseminate a virus that would wipe Homo sapiens off the planet, and you'd have a hard time finding proponents for that (outside of PETA, anyway!)

Love, Columbine

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LOL -- i wrote what you see above, and all links in that are things i found relating to the topics that i was discussing above :)

And by no means have I given up, and I know what impact I have on things -- its the recognizing part of it that helps to see where change can be implemented. For example, I dont eat store bought chicken or eggs anymore - i get them from an organic farm that my moms friend runs. I know how the animals are treated, and i know what the eat, and what her farm impact is on the area around it. I carpool to work, which is a step in the right direction, but not the full solution.

The thing i wrote above was to get some thinking out there, and see what people are trying to do to like a little more 'green' :)


Edit to add: What i wrote above is to get people to start seeing the 'next step' lets call it --- i'm doing X now, but it has Y impact. How can I make it better and achieve Z sort of thing

Well, on one thing - the fluorescent bulbs - I have replaced almost all the bulbs in my condo with them. Have yet to have one burn out. There's an old circular one in my storage closet that is about 10 yrs old - I turn the switch, it thinks about it, and then flickers on! It hasn't been on constantly all those years - but has travelled everywhere with me.

My newer ones from GE - turn on right away, and have a nice soft glow to them, not that icy blue or winter-yuck yellow.

Disposal? Hey, fire departments and municipalities have hazardous waste collections once or twice a year. Just add the bulbs.

I think part of the goal is to have what is now called a 'negative footprint' - don't hurt the earth at a faster rate than it can heal. Mother Nature is amazing when given half a chance!

I took the "eco footprint" test, and found it odd and extremely limiting. It asks you things like what city is your weather like, and the closest to me was NYC, but we're colder and further North.

It asks how big one's house is, but doesn't ask if your house is insulated.
It doesn't ask what kind of heating system you use.
It doesn't ask whether you use air conditioning in the summer, etc., etc.
It doesn't ask what temperature you set the house to in colder months.
It doesn't ask about how many major appliances or computers you own/run daily.
It doesn't ask if you recycle anything, or how much you recycle, or what you recycle.
It doesn't ask how big your lawn is and if you have to water it, and how many months of the year.
It doesn't ask if you compost.
It asks if you have more or less waste than your neighbors - well, that doesn't prove anything. We, for example, are two people, the neighbors are 7 (parents and 5 kids), so ...

It doesn't take many, many things into account, so I don't give it any credibility, sadly.

A large factor in the life expectancy of the CF bulbs is the purity of the local power grid.

If you're in an urban area with relatively new power distribution systems, they last longer. However, if you're out in the middle of nowhere, with a power grid that was last updated more than 30 years ago, you're screwed.

Karen, the term "negative footprint" is one I have heard used, such as an interview with a company whose goal it was to have that in 10 years, for example.

I am sure there are some 'eco-footprint' quizzes around, most of dubious quality.

There was a great eco-questionnaire from the Gov't of Canada, until Mr Harper cut almost ALL funding to the initiative.

I'll see what I can find...

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

Our house will eventually go to an on grid solar system, but that's a few years off.

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Same. I really want to get a solar system grid on our rooftop, but it costs an exorbitant amount of money and the energy it offsets will not cover all our basic electricity needs. Hopefully, more productive and less expensive solar grids will be available in the next couple of years.

I got over being depressed about the state of our earth. Now, the only thing we *can* do is to take action. Buy from local farmer's markets, eat less meat, buy eco-friendly products, meaning, you will have to research. Hybrids sound nice, but I remember reading an article about Toyota trying to fight some legislature that would help the environment but cost the car companies. We live in a world of double-standards and changing the environment requires us to change our own lives. Unfortunately, many seem to be in denial about the latter (and the former!).

We do what we can. I'm a vegetarian and try to buy at least a quarter of my groceries at farmer's markets and am in the process of growing my own food. There's not much variety in my garden, but it helps to offset the stress on our environment. Instead of throwing away our vegetable peels and coffee grounds, we compost them for usage in the garden. It's not much, but we do what we can. Small people can create monumental changes, and the change begins at home :)

First off, thanks for the article to get people thinking.

As someone who cares it can get a bit depressing trying to weigh the amount of "evil" in each decision. As you said though... we just try to do the best that we can.

I re-use re-use RE-USE. People may laugh, but I'm proud. I even stitch up holes in undergarments. If i use a paper-towel for some food I save it in a pile for later grimy cleaning.

I also have tried to eliminate chemical cleaners from our household. Just about the only things left are shampoo and laundry detergent (which we use about 1/10th the recommended amount. We also don't use it with every load of laundry. Vinegar or baking soda usually.)

We mulch our lawn clippings and have our blade set higher for a nicer healthier lawn that retains more water.

S.O. car pools when he can. (unfortunately due to my failing health i can no longer ride my bike to work. *WAH!!!!* Insert long rant, pouting, crying and whining here.)

Probably a bunch of other things that have just become regular routine to me that i don't think about anymore.

Oh, and i can't sign off from this post with out saying... "Do you FreeCycle?"

12:00 Friday Mar 4 2007: I use manual tools instead of power tools when I can. Like I use a shovel instead of an electric or gas powered edger to edge the sidewalks.

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Originally Posted by Blue_Frog

LOL -- i wrote what you see above, and all links in that are things i found relating to the topics that i was discussing above :)

And by no means have I given up, and I know what impact I have on things -- its the recognizing part of it that helps to see where change can be implemented. For example, I dont eat store bought chicken or eggs anymore - i get them from an organic farm that my moms friend runs. I know how the animals are treated, and i know what the eat, and what her farm impact is on the area around it. I carpool to work, which is a step in the right direction, but not the full solution.

The thing i wrote above was to get some thinking out there, and see what people are trying to do to like a little more 'green' :)


Edit to add: What i wrote above is to get people to start seeing the 'next step' lets call it --- i'm doing X now, but it has Y impact. How can I make it better and achieve Z sort of thing

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The way I see it, small changes multiplied by a huge population gives a huge economy of scale. For example, one can calculate, for example, the amount of energy saved in BTU if everyone lowered their thermostat in the winter by 2 deg F, or, conversely, raised it in the summer by 2 degrees. Market pressures like peak vs. off-peak pricing for electricity can modify behavior. One can drive a higher-milage internal combustion car. There always is a cost to any human activity; Niven called it the TaNSTAAFL principle ("There ain't no such thing as a free lunch!")

What Blue Frog did was a type of cradle-to-grave analysis. These are two-edged tools. You need a lot of information to do these, and can get discouraged if you don't know all the inputs and outputs. Bottom line: do the best you can. I personally like the idea of planting more trees and having gardens on roofs. The tree is one of the most efficient CO2 sinks there is!

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Originally Posted by Karen

I took the "eco footprint" test, and found it odd and extremely limiting. It asks you things like what city is your weather like, and the closest to me was NYC, but we're colder and further North.
...
It doesn't take many, many things into account, so I don't give it any credibility, sadly.

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I did a look around, and found what appears to be more comprehensive footprint tests for anyone interested -- they take about 10 mins to complete, and cover different things like home, retail, business, etc -- it's australian, but it prolly still applies :)

http://www.epa.vic.gov.au/ecological...rs/default.asp

Also, theres an entire organization dedicated to that as well ...

http://www.footprintnetwork.org/

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Originally Posted by smokey the elder

What Blue Frog did was a type of cradle-to-grave analysis. These are two-edged tools. You need a lot of information to do these, and can get discouraged if you don't know all the inputs and outputs. Bottom line: do the best you can. I personally like the idea of planting more trees and having gardens on roofs. The tree is one of the most efficient CO2 sinks there is!

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Pretty much -- i've been too tied up in Product Development lately, and seeing how those principles tie into other things around us (like the environment). My company has been working towards more environmentally friendly products (recycled and biodegradable packaging, better production methods, etc.), however there is still a ways to go.

Just because something isn't perfect, it doesn't mean you give up. It means that you work harder to make it better, constant improvement. And the environment is the same on a much broader scale. Like, using Lady's Human light example ---

1. Right now? Incandescent bulbs.
2. The Improvement? Compact Flourescent, which still have problems for recycling, etc.
3. The Improvement? Lady's Human light example of LED and LED Film lighting (Light Emitting Diodes, look at the little green light on your PC tower, thats an LED) ... better.
4. The Improvement? ...

And so on -- There may not be perfection, but theres always 'Better' and 'Improving' :)

Acording to my foot print, we will need 3.3 planets......and I actually thought I was doing pretty good, I walk alot of places , ride my bike, plant gardens etc.

Sigh. I guess I will blame the dogs for the extra methane. ;)

I try to do my part. Maybe my part is less than someone else's, maybe it is more. I recycle, and am going to begin composting, again. I had some complaints from one neighbor about it, and let it influence my decision. I have also made a pact with myself to go without my dryer this warm season time. I buy organic for somethings, do go to farmer's markets, reuse, reuse, reuse, and conserve. I only wash in cold, I keep my thermostat at 60(now that Jonah is old enough to keep covers on at night), and won't turn on ANY air until June (let's see if I make that one). We take bike trips/stroller when we can, combine trips, plant a garden, and practice greener practices, in general.

I have found that going green is usually more cost efficient (with the exception of buying organic, but, since I don't eat meat- it kind of evens out) to the user.

I try...and I know there is so much more I could be doing. We use the "new" light bulbs, I walk on many of my errands, we recycle (there is more in our recycle bin than in the refuse bin) and I avoid bags. If I go shopping and get one bag, any other purchases I make go in the same bag. If it is a small item I ask if I can put it with the reciept in my purse.

I do not turn the heat or a/c but one or two days a year. Yes, that is easy in California, but my house gets down to 57 in the winter. I put on another sweater and the E's grow really thick coats.

Plastic water bottles concern me. I use a reuseable bottle for the gym.

Last week there was a big discussion about a silly suggestion made by a silly rock star. However, an important point was missed. Trees are renewable...albeit rather long cycle renewable, but paper processing -- even of recycled paper -- consumes a TREMENDOUS amount of energy and water. Raw materials are only one part of the equation in conserving. I have always like paper plates for parties and picnics. I have decided when my supply is depleted I'll give it up.

Does anybody have links to environmental clubs? I tried to get involved in one, but it was more like an outdoors camp event. I'd like to try again but am having difficulty in finding a suitable club. I figure since "doing what we can" is so miniscule, I might as well aim higher and join a larger organization.

My mom's family re-uses plastic ware (eating utensils and plates) for common get togethers. When i brought the idea up with S.O.'s family (asked if the washed them or threw them away, when i was finished eating) they looked at me as if i was the most disgusting thing on the face of the planet. It's washed, it's clean, it's re-usable. His family even throws away birthday candles!!! I never knew any family that threw away once used birthday candles. (Sorry... this started out as just being a suggestion, but turned into my ranting stemming from me being ticked at how PROUD they are to not re-use anything.)

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

I try...and I know there is so much more I could be doing. We use the "new" light bulbs, I walk on many of my errands, we recycle (there is more in our recycle bin than in the refuse bin) and I avoid bags. If I go shopping and get one bag, any other purchases I make go in the same bag. If it is a small item I ask if I can put it with the reciept in my purse.

I do not turn the heat or a/c but one or two days a year. Yes, that is easy in California, but my house gets down to 57 in the winter. I put on another sweater and the E's grow really thick coats.

Plastic water bottles concern me. I use a reuseable bottle for the gym.

Last week there was a big discussion about a silly suggestion made by a silly rock star. However, an important point was missed. Trees are renewable...albeit rather long cycle renewable, but paper processing -- even of recycled paper -- consumes a TREMENDOUS amount of energy and water. Raw materials are only one part of the equation in conserving. I have always like paper plates for parties and picnics. I have decided when my supply is depleted I'll give it up.

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Sorry, i JUST found out that we have one here in my area, but it's pretty much only focused on improving out general area of the state (though they are concerned for the whole world.) I don't think a regional MI group is going to be much help to you out in CA. ;)

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Originally Posted by Giselle

Does anybody have links to environmental clubs?

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Originally Posted by Giselle

Does anybody have links to environmental clubs? I tried to get involved in one, but it was more like an outdoors camp event. I'd like to try again but am having difficulty in finding a suitable club. I figure since "doing what we can" is so miniscule, I might as well aim higher and join a larger organization.

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Maybe these might help?

http://www.hcn.org/links/links_rerg.jsp

http://www.webdirectory.com/General_...es/California/

Or if not, maybe someone from these links in your area could point you in the right direction? Or contacting a local college with any Environmental programs might have contacts too? Hopefully thats helpful :)