Runoff of the Daisy thread-kinda!

Tim, this has nothing to do with you, i just know alot of people have some negative feelings about the outside dog ALL the time thing and i've kinda been wanting to make a thread of some sort about this subject and this kinda gave me the kick in the rear i needed to get it started.
With it being warmer, we've been going on alot more walks and on my walks i've seen alot of dogs chained up. they look as though they've been chained up their whole life. I dont understand why people get these dogs as their so call pet or companion then just leave them chained up or stuck in a kennel day after day without any people attention other then at feeding time, or when it's time to clean out their cages!
makes me very sick to my stomach and very sad...i just wanna run up and grab all those doggies and bring them to my house where they can learn to interact with people who love them and who can treat them good!
just wanted to make a thread on this for a while now, so here it is...


oh also... im not trying to start any sort of fight and i know alot of pt'ers have their doggies inside so im sure it wont cause too much distraught people!!

My neighbor, had a dog, she was an old girl, and was always outside. Never chained up but always outside, never allowed in the house. I asked the neigbor once, why the dog never went inside, and he said, because she smelled! DUH! give her a bath! Every morning, when I would let my dog out to go pee, I would catch her sneaking out of a doghouse, that was left behind our house by the previous owners. Everyday, I told her it was okay, she could use the dog house, as she didnt have one. I tried giving her biscuits to get her to hang around more, but then realized she had no teeth. I also noticed she had a large tumorous growth, on her shoulderblade. so I just talked with her, and showed her some love. would give her some canned food, when she was around. This went on for about 6 months, before, one day I noticed she hadnt been around in a few days. I bumped into the neighbor, and he told me, that she was gone, I asked what happened, and he said he thought she had just gone somwhere and died. So I went home, very sad, that he seemed to not even care. I went in the backyard,a nd noticed that inside the Doghouse, was the dog. She was alive, but barely, so I went and sat next to her, petted her and told her wha a great dog she was. I sat with her for about 15 mins. Before she took her last breath, and passed on. I was so sad,but was happy that during her last few minutes, she felt loved. Hubby and I buried her in our backyard.

I for the life of me, cannot undertand why people get dogs and treat them like this! I couldnt even imagine not wanting a dog to spend every waking moment with me. There is so much love that they have to give. Sorry I just had to share this sad story.:(

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Originally Posted by critter crazy

I for the life of me, cannot undertand why people get dogs and treat them like this! I couldnt even imagine not wanting a dog to spend every waking moment with me. There is so much love that they have to give. Sorry I just had to share this sad story.:(

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No it was a great story. Kinda why i wanted to post something about this, because i believe almost all of us feel so strongly that this is just utterly dumb that people do this to their dogs!!

There's a black lab mix in our neighborhood that spends its life on a 6 foot chain. If it weren't so mean sounding I'd have liberated it long ago. What's the point of having a dog if it lives on a 6 foot chain?

critter crazy, you have me in tears here,what a touching story. :( Thank God that old dog had you.

I too see a few dogs chained outside, it's their life. :( Why have a dog? Do they think it's protection? The dog barks all the time, so if someone were breaking in their house or garage would any neighbors even look out the window to see what's going on :confused:

I too hate the sight of dogs being kept chained up 24/7. Dogs are socail animals and need to be indoors with their families. They look to us for leadership. When we bring a dog or puppy home it's our responsability to know how to properly care for the dog. Know how to keep the dog happy and sane. Life on a chain or kennel is no life for a dog.

If you keep the dog indoors, but crated unless time to potty or eat it's just as bad. if not worse than keeping it on a chain. I see a lot of dog show people keep their dogs crated more than necessary.

The plain and simple of it is DOGS NEED INTERACTION WITH PEOPLE MORE THEN A FEW MINUTES A DAY!

Ok, I would not normally post on a thread that I thought was, or could, get ugly.....but first let me start off by saying Zoee is an inside dog. :)

I grew up out in the country and we always had a dog or dogs. And my parents were very adamant on them NOT coming in the house. So they were chained up outside. NO animals allowed in the house. As my sister got older she began working with dogs she got her first GSD, Trevor. My parents helped pay for some very nice kennels to keep the dogs in during the day. And then at night they came in the garage to sleep in crates. Eventually, my sister had 6 dogs, 3 lived outside....3 GSD's. And 3 lived inside (I guess my parents gave up;)).....a min-pin, a rescued greyhound and one GSD pup from one of the outside GSD's. Those dogs that lived outside got as much love, care and exercise as the dogs that lived in the house. They were taken on LONG walks around the property, had regular vet care.
All but one of those dogs are now at the RB...the min-pin just turned 17 last month. Each and everyone of them lived to be around 15 years of age......with the exception of one that had a serious health issue, and that was one of the inside dogs.
So my parents now have only two dogs, the min-pin inside, and a rescue outside.

Our DJ dog was mainly an outside dog. He lived outside and had a doggie door to come into the garage. He did come in the house usually each day. I know I let him in with me when I was home alone all night. :) Well, he developed lung cancer and died at the age of 8. When we got Zoee, my BF thought DJ living outside is what killed him (even though I kept telling him NO). So Zoee is strictly an inside pup.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it doesn't matter where the dog lives as long as it IS well cared for and loved. Don't get me wrong, I see your point about them being indoors, obviously my dog is inside and I wouldn't have it any other way. But I think it's a bit harsh to immediately bash someone for keeping their dog outside. The dogs you are all describing that live outside do sound like they are not getting the love and attention they need, but hey, what can we do? We can't save the world, unfortunately.

It wasn't really the fact that she's an outside dog. It's the way he worded it and the way we could see how she was being treated. I know there are outside dogs that are perfectly happy and well cared for. It just doesn't happen to be my belief. He made it quite obvious he didn't care for the dog, which I think is what made us all see red.

I have very strong feelings on this but don't want to come off sounding harsh. I hope I can do that. I think most of us look at dogs as family members. We keep all of our family members inside the house and interact. :) I cannot understand, and never will, how people keep dogs outside. I wouldn't do that to a family member. I don't understand how someone can develop a relationship with a dog that isn't with them inside 24/7. When I see a dog outside all of the time and, worse yet, chained outside, I think the people who own that dog see them as *lawn ornaments.* I do not buy into the argument of having a dog for protection. Believe me, my Ripley (all 14 lbs. of him) can alert me to anything going on outside. After I am alerted it is my responsibility to see if there is a reason for the alarm. I would certainly never have a dog for protection with the idea of having an *attack dog.* I am sorry but I just cannot fathom any reason for ever having an outside dog. :confused:

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Originally Posted by dukedogsmom

It wasn't really the fact that she's an outside dog. It's the way he worded it and the way we could see how she was being treated. I know there are outside dogs that are perfectly happy and well cared for. It just doesn't happen to be my belief. He made it quite obvious he didn't care for the dog, which I think is what made us all see red.

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Oh yeah, I know what you are saying and I agree.....but I didn't want to bring up that thread specifically. ;) I was just speaking in general.

Pam, unfortuantely not everyone feels the same way we all do for our animals. It is VERY sad, but it happens. :( I guess we should just all be thankful we have our dogs and are giving them all the love we feel they deserve. Trust me, I wish I could save every dog I see on Petfinder. (and that's why I don't visit that site, except recently helping a friend look for a dog)

Okay, person with an outside dog right here. Before Pet Talk, it was okay to have Roxy on a chain 24/7. I would come out and see her and bring her treats and everything, and I walked her occasionally, but it was okay. Everyone has a chained dog or an outside dog. It was okay. Then, I joined Pet Talk and everybody was yelling at me for my mom's choices on Roxy being an outside dog. Sooo, I took some effort and convinced my mom to let her inside. I once even snuck her in and bathed her. Now, after all of the hard work, Roxy is allowed inside at night, she never has an accident, not counting last night..(but that wasn't her fault because she had an upset stomach, but we figured out it was this food, and she's not getting anymore), she's allowed to sleep in my room on my bed, and I can give her a bath practically anytime I want to. So, I've come a loooong way from having a 24/7 outside dog. Now, I have a housebroken, night-time inside dog, whose allowed free roam of the house and who I can put in the shower with me if I want to. I do love Roxy and I wouldn't trade her for the world.

Roxyluvsme13, your post was beautiful! If PT had no other reason for existing your story would be enough for me. (Of course us PTers know better and love it for many other reasons). :) Many of us as children grew up with parents whose ideas do not mesh with our own now. My parents were not really concerned with what food my dogs were fed (usually what was on sale and a lot of table scraps) but as we get older we get to think, and try, new things. I am so glad that your mom has allowed you a little more freedom with Roxy. If you show that you are attentive to her needs and keep her bathed, etc. she should have no reason to doubt your good intentions and she will earn more *house time.* Your post has put a big smile on my face. See for yourself......> :D

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Originally Posted by Pam

Roxyluvsme13, your post was beautiful! If PT had no other reason for existing your story would be enough for me. (Of course us PTers know better and love it for many other reasons). :) Many of us as children grew up with parents whose ideas do not mesh with our own now. My parents were not really concerned with what food my dogs were fed (usually what was on sale and a lot of table scraps) but as we get older we get to think, and try, new things. I am so glad that your mom has allowed you a little more freedom with Roxy. If you show that you are attentive to her needs and keep her bathed, etc. she should have no reason to doubt your good intentions and she will earn more *house time.* Your post has put a big smile on my face. See for yourself......> :D

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Aw, thanks! My mom still doesn't believe half of the stuff I tell her PT says because she's so set in her ways. She and my grandpa both believe you're supposed to increase food in the winter, decrease it in the summer. Uh, no. My grandpa says Roxy's amount of dog food is too much, but on the lower amount, she was SO skinny. I wish I could find my USB cord and show how much weight she's gained and how happy she is.. Yeah, Pet Talk changed us. Sorry for getting so off-topic! :o

I know some dogs - huskies, for example, who like being outside. What surprised me was that a friend's family dog - a Dalmatian - insisted on being an "outside" dog. She had a nice bed in the garage so she could be out of the weather, but my friend said she thinks inside the hosue with 5 kids was just too much commotion for the dog, and she'd howl and basically destroyed a door saying "LET ME OUT!" when kept inside for any length of time, even just for an overnight. The kids and parents all loved and played with the dog, took her for walks, etc., she just insisted on being outside!

But I cannot stand to see dogs chained up to a length of chain, in an area so small they have paced the ground bare, and obviously get little human interaction and care. It's heartbreaking, thanksfully it doesn't happen much around here that I see.

And I am so, so, so glad that Bri did all the work and was so diligent and Roxy gets to be inside now! :)

Hey Roxy, I just now saw that. That is great! Something similar happened with Maria if any of you remember her here. Major is inside almost all the time now. It took a few years but her perseverance paid off. I, too, agree that dogs are family and should be inside. I wouldn't have it any other way.

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Originally Posted by Pam

I have very strong feelings on this but don't want to come off sounding harsh. I hope I can do that. I think most of us look at dogs as family members. We keep all of our family members inside the house and interact. :) I cannot understand, and never will, how people keep dogs outside. I wouldn't do that to a family member. I don't understand how someone can develop a relationship with a dog that isn't with them inside 24/7. When I see a dog outside all of the time and, worse yet, chained outside, I think the people who own that dog see them as *lawn ornaments.* I do not buy into the argument of having a dog for protection. Believe me, my Ripley (all 14 lbs. of him) can alert me to anything going on outside. After I am alerted it is my responsibility to see if there is a reason for the alarm. I would certainly never have a dog for protection with the idea of having an *attack dog.* I am sorry but I just cannot fathom any reason for ever having an outside dog. :confused:

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Pam I am going to agree to a point,........ I have a few friends that raise sheep in Ga, and years ago I had a small herd also, the Border collies that he raises and trains the pack of them have outdoor kennels. I never had an issue with this type of "outdoor" dog, simply because when they weren't working on his farm, they were with him at trials etc. Fact was and is in that case and many others , keeping them all in the house isn't an option.

I asked him once what happens when they are old or pups? as they spend their lives working for you don't you feel that you owe them something in return? His answer.....My bitches whelp in the house the pups are loved as their mom is , and they stay with me till I cull the workers from the pets, they go to good homes that will make them just that a pet loved and spoiled. When they are old I show them more kindess then most kids give their old folks, they get the house a rug in front of the fire and peace in their last years.

So as I agree completely that dogs should be a family member , it needs to be borne in mind that are many types of families.

As for those that are chained, or simply kept as a lawn ornament.....well there is a special place in hell for callous heartless people, I just hope I get to peek in it and have the satifaction of seeing several people I have met over the years reaping their well earned rewards!

Hug those beautiful poodles for me!

Just my thoughts

My family has had dogs my entire life, I have never known what it was like to not have one for more than a few months maybe. Some of them like larger breeds were outside/inside dogs, they all were spoiled rotten and loved so much, for example. Natasha was a rotti, we were given her by a friend when she was two months old, we had no idea how to raise a rotti, so the next day off to the vet we went and all the advice we could get, we followed the advice to the letter, she stayed inside 24/7 until she was about a year old, then she was inside/outside dog, sometimes she stayed outside with her own dog house for however long she wanted, but she was always allowed inside whenever she wanted, and we had two cocker spaniels as well.
She never was out when it was cold or excessively hot or bad weather, she knew she could get on the beds, she had no idea how large she was, at her healthiest 130lbs. We lost her at 6yrs old, it was devastating, anyway, i think that you can do both worlds sometimes, but not all the time, primarily they should be inside dogs, i would feel to guilty other wise.

For me the whole problem was him want to sell the dog, and wording it that way. There are dogs that are outside that are fine. The whole thing just seemed rather cold.

My question is this, why would you get a dog for protection, but keep it ether chained up, or in a run?? how does that protect your family?? The dog cant do anything but bark, and if the person who is meaning harm, knows the dog cant get in the house, how does that protect anyone? seems quite pointless to me! JMO!

I think it depends on the owner. my moms boss has 2 dogs that are not allowed in the house. 2 dogs that were dumped along the highway and he rescued, when he tried to adopt from a rescue they turned him down flat because the dog would be oustide....ya ok but the guy lives on a farm, owns his buisness on the farm, has offices on the farm where the dogs are more then welcome inside, has a heated and A/C attached garage for them to sleep at night, and the guy works outside, he is only in his house to eat and sleep, otherwise he is outside or in the office, both places tha dogs are more then welcome. not to mention they get attention from there ad AND all the employees who play the the dogs on their breaks. they get home groomed regularly, plus a professional groom twice a year. all dogs in their care are promptly fixed, and fully vaccinated and visit the vet once a year unless an emergancy. it is a dream life for a dog to end up living with this guy, but he was turned down flat by rescues. so he took in a aussie mix some highway workers found dumped, they tied her up away from the road so she would not get hurt, and tried to find her a home. she is now living very happily with my moms boss.

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Originally Posted by critter crazy

My question is this, why would you get a dog for protection, but keep it ether chained up, or in a run?? how does that protect your family?? The dog cant do anything but bark, and if the person who is meaning harm, knows the dog cant get in the house, how does that protect anyone? seems quite pointless to me! JMO!

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Agreed. Also if the person is totally cruel and heartless, a dog on a chain or in a run is very easy to *take care of* (can't escape) if you get my drift. :(

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Originally Posted by Pam

I have very strong feelings on this but don't want to come off sounding harsh. I hope I can do that. I think most of us look at dogs as family members. We keep all of our family members inside the house and interact. :) I cannot understand, and never will, how people keep dogs outside. I wouldn't do that to a family member. I don't understand how someone can develop a relationship with a dog that isn't with them inside 24/7. When I see a dog outside all of the time and, worse yet, chained outside, I think the people who own that dog see them as *lawn ornaments.* I do not buy into the argument of having a dog for protection. Believe me, my Ripley (all 14 lbs. of him) can alert me to anything going on outside. After I am alerted it is my responsibility to see if there is a reason for the alarm. I would certainly never have a dog for protection with the idea of having an *attack dog.* I am sorry but I just cannot fathom any reason for ever having an outside dog. :confused:

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I totally agree with this, Pam. To me, having a dog living outside in the yard is like taking the least favorite of your children and making him/her live outside, while the rest of the family is in the house.

"Well, Billy is messier than his sisters, leaves his dirty underwear in the middle of his bedroom floor, doesn't wipe the toothpaste out of the sink and hates to take a bath. So he has to live in a tent in the backyard. We take good care of him, we make sure he has food and water, and we go outside almost every day to talk to him for a few minutes. In the summer when it's warm we even throw the baseball for him a few times a week! There's nothing wrong with having an outside child! We love him and take care of him, and he's perfectly happy out there in his tent while we are all in the family room, watching a video and eating popcorn."

I had a Siberian husky that liked to spend a lot of time outside, moreso than the other dogs. I don't know if he got hot, or just like his solitary time more. However, I had a dog door, and it was his choice. He came in the house whenever he pleased, and was in quite a bit, just not as much as the other dogs. So, while I do definately agree that some dogs prefer the outdoors much more than others dogs do, I do not believe for a second that there are dogs that would choose to spend every minute of their lives outside, away from their families.

even though i really didnt want this thread to turn out to be bashing Tim, i realize some of us(including me) cant stray away from what is really happening with poor daisy! Seems to me that all tim wanted to do is to make her mean and scary...and now is turning her mean and scary.
He cropped her ears to make her look mean to anyone intentionally trying to hurt his family, and by cutting off interaction with her is going to contribute a LARGE deal to daisy's neglectful actions.
i just dont even know what to think of this poor situation! If my boyfriend would let me i would take poor daisy off his hands and treat her the right way!
okay thats all i had to say on this topic...lets try and not totally bash Tim, i give him credit for trying to find her a better home, but things just need to be done a little differently!
anyways moving on...

Hunting dogs and working dogs are often left outside. I think working Huskies often prefer outside to the inside. Beagles and Spaniels often used for hunting are kept outside. It is the owner's choice in all instances. I, for one, remember my parents allowing the dogs in the "back hall" when the temperatures dropped so low the dog would cry to come in..... I never knew it was so hard on a dog until I got old enough to understand.

All that said, it is really up to the owner to take the necessary steps to socialize the dog and keep it well fed and vetted. Usually, if there is failure, it is all around. Pets take a great deal of care, inside or out! Out could be more difficult if you are truly faithful to the process.

Tim is one of many folks in this world, who think of dogs as not an inside pet and part of the family. It is his choice!

It is not my style, for sure, but let's give Tim room to make one more move in the right direction .... and rehome Daisy, to just the right home. We will never really know what the final decision will be........never.

I for one have no problems with someone having an outside dog. What I dont like is when the dog is neglected, because it is outside. Kind of like, "out of sight, out of mind". Dogs need to be properly taken care of, and yes this can be done if the dog lives outside. But moer often then not, outside dogs,are left on their own, get no socialization, no interaction ect..... Yes this can also happen to indoor dogs. People need to take responsibility for their pets, and do everything needed to make sure the animal leaves a good life. They are not a toy, to be just tossed aside, when you get bored.

so i just got home from the park. Good news is we are not the only ones spending quality time for with out pets i happen to see 3 different people with their doggies. Bad news is...the last doggie i saw happen to not be on a leash and the guy was running towards me while we were walking(on leashing i might add) and it was just me...so i have 3 very large breed doggies, who might i add are pretty strong, with some guy running TOWARDS me with his dog not on a leash...yea it was fun let me tell ya! well cainan really didnt like this dog and was growling like crazy as i tried to walk around the dog, it just stood in my way sniffing all my doggies and the man just kept running, didnt even call his dog for not even joking @ least 30-45 seconds... duh!
BUT at least he's playing with his dog i guess haha!

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...erveBetter.jpg

Anyone concerned about a dog in their area, maybe you could email this person for ideas, suggestions!

Now my dogs are inside dogs i wouldn't have it any other way, and neither would they..But let me say this:

chains do not abuse dogs..PEOPLE do

I am not against having dogs outdoors or RESPONSIBLE chaining..What i DO see as a bad thing is NEGLECT..But what people fail to see is that neglect can happen anywhere not just on the end of a chain. To think that everyone who chains their dog is scum and that they are neglecting their dogs, is absolutly ridiculous.

Just wanted to add, my pup used to get tied out to a tree in the front yard while we were doing yard work or playing, or at a store for a few minutes while we ran in, but he did get incredibly defensive from it so we've stopped. He does go out in the fenced in yard unatended about 45 minutes or more a day when it's nice out but it's his choice. Me, I rather have a pair of geese for protection. I can see a pack of hounds or other working dogs living in a barn or outside though.

There's also this other campaign, can't remember the name, that lets you experience the life of a chained dog or something like that. I would do it, but my mom wouldn't let me..

Molly is a fantastic little girl, happy to greet everyone and everything off leash. On leash, she gets more defensive, protective and territorial. I can only imagine what living on a chain for even 24 hours would do to her.

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Originally Posted by Roxyluvsme13

My mom still doesn't believe half of the stuff I tell her PT says because she's so set in her ways.

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My mom is the same way.

My RB Cocker Spaniel, Missy, spent the first few years of her life as an outside dog. I was 5 years old when we got her, so I just followed everything my parents said and had no problem with it. Eventually, when I was about 8, I started to feel really bad for Missy because I could tell she really wanted to be inside with us. I convinced my parents to let her inside and she was inside dog for the rest of her life. She had severe fear aggression, but we dealed with it and I loved her with all my heart. She died on July 4th, 2005, shortly after we got Molli. To this day, I think she was content, felt well loved, and passed to the RB a happy dog. Never EVER again, will I ever keep a dog outside all the time. Dogs are pack animals, and NEED human companionship to be truly happy. Now, I know their are exceptions, some outside dogs are well cared for and loved, and are happy. (like many farm/working dogs)

Guess I have mixed thoughts on this subject as well as many do. I would never think of keeping Noba outside for any reason, however... growing up we had Newfoundlands. We had four of them (2 boys, 2 girls). We had a HUGE old farmhouse that we lived in (when I say big, picture 7 bedrooms alone and there were only four of us in the fam including parents). Anyway, two of our newfs insisted on staying outside, especially during the long cold Maine winters... :eek: We would bring them in at night when it was especially cold and they always got one on one time inside for three hours a day. But whenever Bonnie and Duke were in the house for any extended period of time, they would start pacing in the kitchen by the door and want to go back outside... so mom and step-dad built them a ridiculously huge dog run in the yard, complete with heated dog house (insulated and heated)... they had a kiddie pool for the summer and plenty of room to run. The other two crazy newfs (Mariah and Bruin) REFUSED to go outside for anything other than walks, playtime and potty. We had these neighbors up the street that tried to call animal control because Bonnie / Duke were always outside in the winter... after the agent called our vet, he began laughing. Our vet had told him that Newfies prefer to be outside in the snow (as long as it's not too cold) and that he should tell our neighbors to leave us alone. Bonnie and Duke were intended to be inside dogs from the time we got them. We got Bonnie as an 8 week old, and Duke as a 4 year old rescue from a pound in Canada (pure-bred with papers, champion lines, gonna be put to sleep three days later, bi-lingual for $50... :eek: :eek: )... but they chose the outside life much to our chagrin... and not for lack of attention and love!!! How could you not love a big slobbering newf!!! :D :p

Sorry this is so long, but just another affirmation that no matter how much love and devotion you give dogs, some of them just prefer to be outside. Bonnie lived to be 14 and Duke ended up living to be 12 I believe (we had to re-home him due to major agression towards cats). But don't worry, he went to a great home where he had undivided love and attention!!!!! :D

I haven't read all the replies so I hope it hasn't gotten heated. Growing up we had an outside dog. He had a dog house in the garage and access to the garage via a doggie door. The dog house was cooler in the summer than OUR house b/c we didn't have AC. He was NEVER tied - ever - had full access to 3 acres. I know a lot of people that have outside dogs on their farm and have full access to every building and nook and cranny in them. They have more shelter than dogs that are in a dog house. I HATE HATE HATE HATE to drive by houses and see big $$$$$$ house and out in the farrrrr corner of the yard is a dog house with a dog tied to it looking forlornly at the the house.
:(
Or are waayyyyyy out there in TIED in a PEN.
when I got my first dog my greyhound she was so destructive in the house at first that people told me to make her a pen so she could be outside while I was at work I refused. Mainly the reason b/c the guy that runs the HS here in town if he would drive by and see her out there he would have taken her back. People wanted me to do the same with Keegan but I refused. She is a dog but she is also part of my family and I don't want part of my family stuck in a pen outside.

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Originally Posted by Suki Wingy

Just wanted to add, my pup used to get tied out to a tree in the front yard while we were doing yard work or playing,

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Keegan used to get tied when she was a puppy at times at my parents house - now I'm not even sure where the tie out at their house. I usually have her on leash for potty trips - Tho she does go offleash quite a bit. The only time she is tied to a tree now is when I mow the yard. I like to have her outside with me to enjoy the sunshine and fresh air too but she likes to be the Neighborhood PR person so ya never know where she is going to end up. So I mow the area where the tie out is and then tie her to it and finish the yard.

Just wanted to add something for all the young people living with their parents, where the parents want the dog to be an outside dog and the child has no choice in the matter:

I hope anyone in this situation realizes that everyone's comments on here stating that they don't agree with outside-only dogs are directed to adults who choose to do this, not children who have no choice in the matter. We realize that you all must live with rules you do not necesarily agree with, and no one is placing any fault on you whatsoever.

And I say this also from experience. When I was growing up, our dogs were outside dogs. Period. My parents both grew up on ranches, where dogs had a job to do and lived outside. Dogs were another animal with a purpose, and my grandparents would no more have let one of their ranch dogs in the house than they would have let in a horse or a goat or a chicken. It never crossed their minds, I'm sure. These dogs were not pets, they were employees.

My parents continued that philosophy. However, our dogs were pets, with no jobs to do. There is a difference. Now, my parents are the sweetest, kindest people you'd ever meet. So I'm certainly not saying people who have outside dog are mean, horrible people. My parents were simply ignorant of the ways dogs function socially, and carrying on an outdated practice out of habit.

The three dogs we had when I lived at home were in no way abused. They had a double-walled, insulated, raised dog house heated with a lightbulb. It was probably almost as warm in there as it was in the house. They had water and food. And in the summer when we were young kids, they had some company, when we were all playing in the back yard. Honestly, though, as we grew up that play-time diminished. They were never abused. But were they neglected? I think so. They spent no time in the house, they had little human interaction compared to a house dog. They had a good life, if you look in terms of basic necessities ... food, water, shelter, vaccinations, vet care. But they didn't have much quality of life, in terms of being part of the family. And they had it a LOT better than a lot of outside dogs ... they were never chained, we had a huge yard, and they had each other. My heart truly breaks for the single dog living alone outside. That is like a life of solitary confinement for a social animal.

Just wanted to clarify.

This is taken from the Border Collie rescue site in the UK.

"Bonding

They have a strong instinct to bond with one person and this is often over-stimulated in a pet home because of the intimate nature of our relationship with our pet animals. It is this attribute that makes the breed so attractive to us. We all want a loyal pet and it is flattering to be the centre of the dogs attention.

Border Collies fare best when they spend day time with their owner in a working relationship and at night spend time apart from their owners in their own space. If you do not get the balance right the dog becomes so dependent on being around the owner that it become stressed and suffers trauma in the absence of the owner. this is known as separation anxiety and is a common problem with pet Border Collies.

They will tend to follow the owner around like they are attached to them with elastic - sometimes very close - sometimes a few foot away - but always at the heel of the owner. If you are familiar with working sheepdogs you may have noticed that the stockman's dog is always there, in the background watching, but is content to keep a distance until needed. unlike many pet Border Collies they do not feel the need to be so close they are constantly underfoot.

They can also get confused if they have to share a relationship with more than one individual. They are bred to bond to one person and although they can switch allegiance with little problem, if they have two or more people demanding their attention it conflicts with their need to bond to one. One man and his dog is no coincidence, although one man can get the adoration and loyalty of many dogs without conflict."

So for those who insist a dog should be with them 24/7, they are wrong. Dogs living like this get seperation anxiety and become over-attached.


Ok, I have always kept my dogs outdoors and some people in here may wonder why I have dogs if I don't keep them inside. Well, here are the reasons. I love dogs, I love training them, I love taking them out for walks, I love taking photos of them, grooming them, interacting with them etc....
I have a strong bond with my dogs and they live outside. The bond between my dogs and me is stronger than between many indoor dogs I know and their owners. When I take them out, they are well behaved, don't run off, come back when called and are good mannered with people. As they got older, they started to dislike small children but many dogs are that way whether they live inside or not.
When they were younger, I used to take them agility training every sunday morning and taught them to perform similar stunts on the seesaws, climbing frames, swings etc..at the local park. Our Monty also used to love the roundabout...we'd set it going round and he'd have a whale of a time chasing the handles for ages, haha.... :D
At the weekends and in school holidays, I used to just get all the dogs and disappear off down the fields with them for up to 5-6 hours at a time...because I liked it. It was peaceful, interesting exploring the countryside, my friend often used to come too.

When I was a child, taking the dogs out for at least 2 long walks a day was the most notable thing about having them. It's what I grew up with. We always had about 5 dogs at once and they were all happy and well cared for and better behaved than many indoor dogs we used to know. I often used to go with my dad or grandad when they took the dogs out. My grandad would take them in the morning and then my dad would take them early evening time, both times an hour and a half or longer. As us kids got older, we'd also take them extra walks at other times when not at school to the point where they were hardly ever at home.

Fact is, a dog who lives outdoors but gets plenty of exercise and is trained and taken proper care of is better off than a dog that lives indoors but never gets taken out for walks and only gets being let out in the back garden to look forward to.
Yes, I know plenty of indoor dogs who never get taken for walks. Being indoors doesn't help them. They are often aggressive towards people when they do go out in public, often hyper and jump all over visitors to the house, totally untrained. My oldest sister has a dog who lives inside but she never takes out. He's completely hyper and uncontrollable.

I can't count the number of fellow dog walkers who asked me if I'd train their dogs for them over the years. Their dogs no doubt lived indoors, mine outdoors yet mine were better behaved and had better manners.

I am also perfectly aware of my dogs anatomy. They get groomed every day so I know if anything changes and they get veterinary treatment if anything is wrong with them.

Some people might ask why I don't keep them indoors if I love them so much. Well, as a child, we always just kept them outdoors. They had adequate shelter, kennels, sheds etc...it was just the way of things. Having a number of dogs also meant it wasn't practical to keep them indoors.
Now it's more down to the parents not allowing the dogs inside except an bonfire and new year to keep them away from fireworks. At night, I think it is important for a dog to spend that time alone as they state in the BC rescue site. Doesn't really matter whether they are outside or downstairs etc...especially for a hardy weather resistant dog like the BC who doesn't care if it's cold.
The ancestors of all our dogs were born and bred outside and lived outside on farms etc....It was the normal type of life for a BC.
I don't feel the need to have them with me 24/7 in order to love them. I generally need my own space even from other people and so do they.

Even though my dogs live outside, they were always behaved when we brought them in at bonfire and they never had accidents on the floor either....funny that....!
They did used to lay there and pant and would often start pacing after a while, epsecially when the fireworks died down and they weren't scared anymore....Border collies are dogs that prefer to be outdoors generally. When we opened the door to let them out, they'd shoot out like rockets and back to where they were used to spending the night.

I take our Jess for three walks a day, 4 if I'm working a short day shift. I also bring her down into the porch for some of the time. It's basically just like an extension of the kitchen and the door inbetween is often left open if it's not too cold.
When she is tired, and she gets tired more now at 13, she likes to go up to her shed and go to bed. When they had their run and I got home from walks, I'd let them off their leads and they would go trotting straight to their run, even if I didn't follow them up to close the run door. There were a couple of times when I went indoors and forgot I'd not closed the run door but I found they didn't come out of the run, even if the door was open. It was their little haven where they retired to when they wanted to rest.
Now the run is gone and our Jess has a plot of lawn around the shed. The shed has a small opening with carpet cut into strips over it to help keep our draughts so that she can let herself in and out of the shed and onto the lawn at anytime. In her shed, she has a bed with blankets and such in and her water etc...She has loads of toys, some in the shed and some scattered about on the lawn. The shed has windows across the front so, in daylight, It's always bright in there. There is a main stable type door for me to get in and out and I can leave the whole thing open or just the top half when the weather is warmer.
There is also a work bench in there for repotting plants etc...
Nothing else is kept in the shed now but I can spend ages in there repotting cacti during the spring and summer, I have a 16ft x 6ft greenhouse full of them. This means that I'll also be with our Jess when repotting the plants etc...If I'm doing something in the greenhouse or the garden, I have her loose and with me anyway.

During summer, we spend much of our time at home out in the garden and she'll be able to spend even more time in our presence then.

I certainly don't agree with dogs being left outdoors with no attention, training or exercise but if they are given those things then I don't see there being a problem with it.

I also don't think it is fair to accuse people of neglecting their dogs just because they keep them outdoors. I see many dogs kept indoors that get neglected just as much.

When I drive past a house where dogs are left outside 24/7 I send them a post card I bought from Dogs Deserve Better.

http://www.dogsdeservebetter.com/home.html

I send it to them in the mail (with no return address) because no dog deserves to live it's life alone.

edit:
This is one style of postcards I bought to send to houses that have dogs left outside all year long.
http://www.cafepress.com/dogsdeserve.8539313

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pitc9

When I drive past a house where dogs are left outside 24/7 I send them a post card I bought from Dogs Deserve Better.

http://www.dogsdeservebetter.com/home.html

I send it to them in the mail (with no return address) because no dog deserves to live it's life alone.

edit:
This is one style of postcards I bought to send to houses that have dogs left outside all year long.
http://www.cafepress.com/dogsdeserve.8539313

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there is a house I pass every time I go to my parents house.......
that I ordered 2 sets of postcards and the block DDB sticker for my car
I'm sending them a postcard when they come in....