I got this in an email today. It said, "You know this was coming"
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I got this in an email today. It said, "You know this was coming"
lol oh my goodness
ROFLMAO!!! Ha ha ha ha ha!!:D :D :D
Dave Letterman could make jokes about that for a week. :D He's already
used a lot of air time on her.
I feel so sorry for everyone involved. This woman was a hero and one bad lasph of judgement and all her good work is forgotten and she is made fun of. Nothing about this is funny. Everyone who is involved here is hurt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marigold2
One bad lapse in judgement? You classify what she did as one bad lapse in judgement? LOL boy I bet criminals are dying to have you on their jury. this was far more than a bad lapse in judgement. It wasn't like a split second decision made and then realized it was the wrong one. She had A LOT of time to think this over. NOT a lapse in judgement....
Whats a tang ????
Wombat
An orangs flavored drink, used bu Astronauts.Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat2u2004
http://jeffatwood.typepad.com/atwoodzoo/images/tang.gif
I completely agree! If a normal person had gone and done the same thing, no one would feel bad at all, and hoped they got the maximum punishment. She messed up big time, and now has to pay the price. Lapse of Judgement my arse. She completely thought the whole thing through, and now has to deal with her choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparks19
Now that I know what TANG is.....I will use that word often.
Wombat
Tang, tang ,tang tang. I was looking at all this woman did that was good not just for her family but her country. An intelligent, educated, brave, woman who should have therapy and a second chance. She is not some ganster, drug addict who is a repeat offended with no education. I looked at all she had done in her life, not just one small part of her life. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone needs help at least once or twice in her or his life. This woman can and should be given a second chance. She had done more for this country that most people ever will.
Battery, attempted kidnapping, destruction of evidence, and the other sundry charges against her would have landed one of us "regular people" in jail. No bail, have a nice weekend with your cellmate.
Sorry, she's an officer in the military, and as such should also have military charges against her in addition to the civilian charges. Celebrity status should never equal special treatment.
I think more then anything she is in mental distress, she is not a cold mean killer, she is mentally ill and needs help. This is not a lifetime criminal this is a confused, ill woman of outstanding merit. When she stands in front of the judge I hope he looks at all the good she has done, not just the bad. How many of us have done something horrible, stupid, mean, crazy? Now imagine you get caught and the whole world knows your shame. So much pride, so much hard work and sacrifice and then in a moment or a week or a day you do something and it is all shot to hell. I don't believe that is how it should be. Good people do dumb things. Good people deserve a second chance, bad lifetime criminals do not. I am far from a bleeding heart, I believe in the death penalty. Should not the good we have done in our lives count or just those moments of ugliness? Who here would not like a second chance? Who here has accomplished as much as she did in their lives?
But they do count! She is a first time offender, she is not going to get the same sentance, as a person who has done this numerous times! Judges do look at the person as a whole, and base sentencing on this fact. But she still deserves what she gets. She did a very stupid thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marigold2
Hmmmmmm......yes. I think I'm going to have to go with Marigold on this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marigold2
The more I consider this....the more I see the sense in it.
Some people do a lot of good in this world, and usually for little or no reward.
But when they mess up...and those mess ups are only in line with other peoples expectations....then they are punished for it.
So where is the balance ????
I know what she did was wrong in the eyes of everyone....but who here can honestly say they have never done wrong ??? And were those wrongs discovered by others ??? Or did you simply get away with it. And did the punishment, if you received any....fit ther crime ???
From my readings of this particular case......the whole matter was simply a matter of the heart...the poor woman felt rejected, cheated on etc etc.
She is obviously crazy about this guy, and she has obviously done something quite stupid here.
So reading Marigolds post has made me sort of wake up to that.
I think this woman is REALLY in for it, not only from the law, but she will be probably ostracised for the rest of her life, her career gone, probably what remains of her family gone.....a bit harsh...don't you all think ???
Well perhaps we should just put her to death, as an example for all of those who would fall in love, and then break the law trying to defend that.
What about the guy ??? He gets away scot free...right ??? And what part did he actually play in this....I can only guess. Wow !!!! He's famous now, got a name for himself, can go fly his little spaceship, and hit on as many women as he likes....married or not...it seems not to be his issue.
Fair ???? I think not.
Wombat
No one's debating that all of us have done some wrong in our lives. However, this goes way beyond "doing wrong". As far as the man is concerned, he didn't drive 900 miles nonstop to try to abuct, etc, whatever she planned on doing. And since she has had all of that education and training, then she should know more than ever the difference of right and wrong. We all have urges to do things we know we shouldn't. But that doesn't mean we all just cut loose and do it and who cares about the consequences.
Well perhaps we should be debating that. Because this woman has been made a spectacle of.....have you ????Quote:
Originally Posted by dukedogsmom
And how does it go BEYOND doing wrong ??? For driving 900 miles to confront her lovers mistress ??? Wow...thats REALLY wrong. I bet that happens all the time in the USA, and you wouldn't even know the names of the people doing it..
And did she intend to abduct or kill or maim (because she had so called weapons on her person) ??? I think it's all circumstantial evidence. The media has got hold of this, and as usual have hyped it up to do TWO things.....to make themselves money/fill their pages up and to give Americans a scapegoat !!!!!
Nope...I don't think it's right what they did to her...in my eyes she has done very little wrong. They should leave her alone.
Wombat
She was not made a spectacle of, she made a spectacle of herself. She violated the oath she took as an officer in the US military. She threw millions of dollars that NASA has spent to train her down the drain.
Sorry, ZERO sympathy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
I am with you on this one. Sure I have made mistakes.... but I have never assaulted anyone.... I have never tried to kidnap anyone.... technically I have never done anything truly unlawful. Especially not to this magnitude. LOL except I stole a marker when I was a kid and I was SO scared of getting caught i NEVER did it again. If I had I would have had to pay the price for it... such as anyone should. What point is there in having laws if they don't want to enforce them because someone is a nice person or has done some good in their life. To me.... that does not excuse you from obeying the law. PERIOD.
She deserves to be punished for what she did..... I don't care about her social standing.... She obviously didn't care either or she wouldn't have done what she did.
I agree... she needs HELP.... and a lot of it. but she can get that help while institutionalized. she should not be allowed to roam free and prey on women who are fooling around with someone she thinks belongs to her. SORRY.... I have been cheated on before.... you know what I did. I MOVED ON.... I have even MET some of the women later in life that my SO cheated on me with. I'm not mad at them.... He is the one that hurt me.... not the girl. So I just left him and moved on with my life. What better revenge than to be living my life out to the fullest and let him see that he can't break me. SORRY There is no excuse for that.
If it were any "normal" person they would have to pay the price. it is NOT acceptable behaviour from anyone... especially from someone as "educated" and "smart" as herself.
Driving 900 miles non stop is NOT a lapse in judgement. perhaps driving down the block might be.... but when you have THAT many hours to think about what you are about to do.... that becomes premeditation. PERIOD
Agree completely! *To whom much is given, much is required.* That applies to many things in life whether it be status, possessions, money, etc. She was in a different position than most of us, a very public position. Therefore her *sin,* when committed, was on public display. Her action was disgraceful and she and she alone is responsible. As far as the man's responsibility, he did nothing unlawful (except of course in the eyes of his wife :p ). Sorry, Wombat, usually I am completely in agreement with your take on things but not this time. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
The reason I feel so bad for this lady is because I feel she is ill. The look on her face and the things she did were so out of character. I believe she had a mental breakdown. Perhaps seeing three friends die in the Challenger explostion started the process. Too much sorrow, fear, grief, shock. Perhaps mental illness is just a disease that was growing in her body, schizophrenic perhaps. I don't think she would have done this if she was well. That is my point really. I feel she needs help mentally and yes she should be held accountable to the degree of sanity. Hopefully someday she will be able to work again at NASA and contribute with her keen intelligence. I just think her illness overtook her. People who are truly mentally ill, don't make rational decisions and what she did was not rational especially for one so intelligent. This was not just a love affair gone wrong, this is a woman who is mentally ill and lost touch with reality, it is sad all around. My knickers are now untwisted.
She may have had a break down but I do not think she is mentally ill. Not in the terms of someone who geninuinely suffers from mental illness.
I myself suffer from clinical depression and OCD and there's nothing that "gets my Irish up" (a good day to use that expression perhaps! :p ) than when someone claims mental illness for an excuse for their actions when they probably don't actually have one.
Yes, some people DO have mental illnesses and can't help what they do. On an extreme example, that man in the news who recently raped and murdered that poor girl (in Florida I think) told the parole officers that he had a mental illness and if released, he would harm someone again. Having a mental illness doesn't excuse his actions completely however. Such is the case with Andrea Yates who drowned her children. She had horrible mental problems for years that her husband and religion compounded until she snapped. She is a woman who needs to be in a hospital, not a jail.
Other people claim to have a mental illness because if they are "crazy" they can avoid going to jail. To me, that demeans everyone who suffers from mental illness and enforces the stigma of having one so people who do need help won't get it because they are afraid of looking "crazy."
And even if she does have a mental illness (which I don't believe)I don't think it would be schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is rare diease and is horrible to those who suffer from it. If she was schizophrenic, while it's possible the signs wouldn't have emerged earlier, they most likely would have. There were no "voices" in her head telling her to do as she did in this case. She did it on her own, of her own free will.
Sorry folks.....not agreeing here.
The punishment is way overboard to fit such a small deal crime.
Wom
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat2u2004
Well than we will just have to agree to disagree ;)
Exactly!!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by sparks19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
I just hope she gets the same jury (or whatever they call it in the military) as all those officers involved in Abu Gahraib....
Quote:
Originally Posted by critter crazy
:D
Although I don't see how this is just a small deal crime. BUT then again ... I am of the frame of mind that intention is enough proof for me. sorry but people don't just drive around 900 miles with potentially deadly weapons in their cars for fun and just HAPPEN to run into a person they have a grudge against and spray them in the face. That to me shows there was some sort of ill intent there. Luckily the other woman was able to flee.... I might be willing to concede that attempted murder might not fly (although they feel strongly enough to believe it will) but DEFINATELY attempted kidnapping at the least. There is no excuse for that kind of thing.... driving over 900 miles shows a frightening amount of commitment to what she wanted to do.
mentally ill or not... she has shown potential to be quite dangerous... and persistent. I feel bad for her husband and her children. Luckily she didn't turn her delusions on them.
Oh piffle !!!! ""I am of the frame of mind that intention is enough proof for me. sorry but people don't just drive around 900 miles with potentially deadly weapons in their cars"".
Intention is proof ???? Since when ??? Mens rea has to be proven by a court of law, it cannot EVER be assumed. and as there was no use of those so called weapons, the court would find that very difficult indeed.
And potentially deadly weapons......oh come on.......I carry a tyre lever in my car, that's a potentially dangerous weapon.
Wombat
Well yes....I agree that you disagree...LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by sparks19
Wom
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat2u2004
Actually she did use one weapon.
Also there were other things in the vehicle. Again all of those things coupled with PERSONAL emails between the girl she was going after and the guy she "didn't have a romantic relationship with" then later found emails from her saying she "loved him". So she not only hacked into their email... which is unlawful.... she assaulted the woman with pepper spray... which if I recall correctly is also illegal to possess (although I do not think it should be personally but should only be used in self defense.) She had many items that suggested kidnapping or worse. She followed this woman until she was alone at her vehicle... wore a disguise.... assaulted her.... luckily the woman was able to flee. There is nothing rational about that... nothing there that tells me her intentions were anything but irrational and potentially dangerous. No just having something in your vehicle may not be intention enough... but put those things together with all the other facts.... and you have a criminal... IMO.
So... no ... while just the mere possession is not enough to suggest foul intent.... those possessions put together with everything else she did.... is plenty for me to put her on trial.
MISTAKES??? Pre-meditated attempted first degree murder is a mistake?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marigold2
Therapy??? For what?
Action = Consequence. Excuses are like a-holes, everybody has got one and they all stink.
I have never done anything wrong in my life, and have served my country for over 10 yrs. But If I went out and did exactly what she did, I would NOT get a second Chance!! phhhhtttt....she made her bed, now she has to lay in it!
The key here is PREMEDITATION. just because she failed doesn't mean we should cut her a break and send her on her way.
I want to know what kind of car she was driving that could go for 900 miles with no pitstops?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudLou
A darn good one :D
Maybe she did make gas stops..... or maybe she filled a bunch of gas cans pre trip. who knows
But it would be nice to know what kind of car gets such good mileage :D
Or she has one of those hybrids and just drove under 40 MPH the whole way so she didn't use gas lol
Premeditation ??? What did she think she was going to do ???Quote:
Originally Posted by sparks19
And failed ??? What did she fail at ???
These are only your assumptions.....based on flimsy so called GREAT evidence....like a number of objects in her car, and the fact that she was hurt enough to drive 900 miles, and a few emails between lovers.
So far all I have heard about premeditation is what YOU think she was going to do....and of course what the MEDIA have suggested.
But yes...I agree that they shouldn't give her a break and cut her free, but how about doing that in line with what she has actually done, and not in line of what people believe she would have done.
I hold to my original idea that all of this is only to find a scapegoat for American people to gloat over. Yeah....she is a clever and successful girl....lets just cut her down.
Wombat
Ohhh....puleeeeeeeeze Puckstop !!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckstop31
Premeditated attempted first degree murder ????
May as well get her for premeditated drug running to, due to the fact that she owned a car.
And therapy ??? Well here we go again !!!!! How do you know she doesn't need therapy ??? You wouldn't have a clue !!!!!
Geez....we are all doing a lot of guesswork today.....and we've got her all but hung already.
Wombat
Look, I read two articles about this. I skipped over the biased stuff and looked at the facts. After thinking about it and realizing the equipment she had on her at the time she committed the crime....Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat2u2004
She knew exactly what she was doing/going to do. In my opinion, she was going to murder that person. Hence what she ended up doing was pre-meditated ATTEMPTED First Degree Murder.
Fine, give her therapy after she is in jail. Will we ever stop making excuses for bad behavior in our society?
The facts ???? Ohhhh......you mean what you read. What the media reported...yes ??? Come on now Puck.....you should know better than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckstop31
For your information.....the reason why she has been charged with premeditated first degree murder (but not convicted mind you...just charged) was due to the fact that the public prosecutor did not like what the judge originally doled out to her.....nope....not enough to give her a bail and anklet condition. So they trumped up another charge so that she would be locked up...based on circumstantial evidence mind you.
It isn't my place, or yours, or anyone else's on this board to condemn anyone on circumstantial evidence. I don't care if the lady had a cannon on her...it doesn't send the message to me that she was going to use it.
You know what is going to happen to her ???? I'll tell you........all these silly little bunch of charges that the prosecutors have painstakingly gone through their law manuals to gather will all be quashed. Yep....she will get assault for the pepper spray....thats it.
And in my opinion.........that is all she deserves.
I feel very sorry for this lady, she hasn't committed any crime other than petty assault.....probably no more than any of us here on this board have done in their lives. I've punched a guy out for stealing my girlfriend in my younger days, and I haven't been nailed to a cross for that.
It's a little thing called BREAKDOWN old mate....I'm pretty sure that most people here know what I am talking about.
Wombat
Ok Wombat... what to you consititutes premeditated attempted murder or kidnapping for that matter? What kind of proof do you need to suggest that it was premeditated attempted murder?
Actually I can't say I have EVER just punched someone out or assaulted someone. I have NEVER started a fight in my life. I may have finished a few but I NEVER threw the first punch. lol. I'm just not of the frame of mind that anyone that just wants to start a fight with me is worth breaking a bone or getting a record over. I will always talk first... sometimes that works and gives the person enough time to think this might not be a good idea. other times I talk and wait for them to throw the first punch.... my punch after that becomes self defense :D
Driving 900 miles to assault someone, TO ME, is not just petty assault..... that shows A LOT of premeditation. The woman in that car feared for her life and even though she couldn't really see she managed to get her car into gear and get some help. AGAIN, I am willing to concede the attempted murder thing.... but petty assault? not so much IMO.
If I drove 900 miles.... put on a disguise and stalked someone.... followed them to their car and then assaulted them.... I would not get a petty assault charge lol
P.S- YOu shouldn't have been angry at that guy for "stealing" your g/f.... you should have been angry at your g/f for being too cowardly to tell you she was leaving. No one truly "steals" a b/f or g/f from you.... it is just that the b/f or g/f was a coward and didn't want to tell you right away that they wanted out.