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Is anyone experienced in Schutzund?
My adult granddaughter and her husband have decided they would like to get into Schutzund training with a dog of their own.
Both of them are responsible pet owners with a better than average knowledge of dogs and dog behavior. But they've never trained a dog for any type of competition.
Any tips would be greatly appreciated!
Wow , it has been close to 9 years since I competed professionally in it, let me sit and go through all my stuff and I will try to put a few tips in coherent order! LOL. I will PM you with a few if thats ok?
Shtznd is a GREAT activity for dog and owner, and I wish your Grandaughter well! It is so much fun, to watch these dogs! Mine all loved it!
Yes I have for 20 years.. She needs a qualified instructor- one that the dogs are level headed in training. It needs to be trained positive- not fear ful, and a dog with a balenced temperment.Quote:
Originally Posted by applesmom
It also takes daily drill- DAILY- rain, snow, you name it. The words should never be used in normal conversation however command words for like sit etc can be. This is not a joke- and needs to be taken very seriously.
Question- is she interested in competing in the sport? If not- to train a dog in this sport is not like one of the regular sports- it does train the dog to think on its own- and this needs to be highly considered.
If it were anyone else other than you applesmom- I would barely entertain such a question- however- I am sure you have already thought about the dedication it takes to monitor a dog a training that may not understand all things at all times. A dog properly trained- is not a vicious dog- they have total understanding at what level the reactions are required- just remember take training slowly- and with a qualified instructor..
Also- preparing a dog for this- I start with puppies- tug of war ( the pup always wins), holding on to a batton in a tug petting the dog- with encouragement but not a happy voice. The pup can not be noise sensitive- a high action pup, with tons of self confidence and seriously physically fit. Make sure the dogs hips are in great shape, hearts, elbows, etc.
The dog should not be afraid of other dogs- and really should come out of lines that are dedicated to this sport. The purpose of this sport is to have levelheaded dog- that is willing to read situations, act appropriate, independent minded- but totaly will follow instruction such as when to release and return to the handler.
Thanks borzoimom. Growing up as she did in our "doggie" family she completely understands the time, effort, dedication and consistency required to train a dog for any sport. She's like her grandma, when she does something she puts her whole heart and soul into it.
It's my guess that the hardest part will be finding the right dog from the right breeder and then finding a great (not just good) trainer. They are willing to travel in order to research and learn too. I'll be sending her any information I can come up with but they're more the "hands on" types rather than sitting on their behinds and relying on what they might read on the internet.
My main concern is finding an ethical breeder and trainer as she tends to be a little too trusting sometimes.
Not sure what breed they want to get into with this, but hands down with out a doubt, if they want to do Rotts, contact Viki and Gordon, at Rohirram Kennels in Perry Ga.Quote:
Originally Posted by applesmom
viki has forgotten more about Rotts than most ppl will ever learn, and she and her husband are amazing sweet people!
Applesmom- as I said- if this were anyone else but you, I would not entertain this. I sent you a pm and I can also send you my phone number if you want personal references on the breeder and the trainer you found..Quote:
Originally Posted by applesmom
My concern with this thread is that someone with a unstable dog will try this- when the fact is a Schuzhound dog is more stable than all of them combined. Its not just obedience, agility, guard work etc- its really intense- highly.. And I LOVED IT!!!! ( As Dr.Goodnow can attest too.. lol..)
TOTALLY AGREE! Or if you want shepherds let me know..Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Goodnow
That would be great. Thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Goodnow
I honestly believe they have the basic knowledge, understanding, responsibility and determination to enjoy it.
Coming out of a dog family that has spent a ton of energy in dedication- yes for sure.. Its a total blast!!! Takes almost all the dog sports, and makes one BIG sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by applesmom
I had numerious SCH 111, etc - and I loved it!!! They need to tell the breeder that they want a pup for this sport- they will help them pick out a puppy- and YOU TAKE WHAT THEY suggest- regardless of sex- its the temperment and drive.
There is a difference between high energy drive and prey drive- you want high energy drive- not prey- .. Prey is harder to teach the release- you want a dog that is like " first to the party and the last to leave" personality..
Also applesmom- when she picks up her puppy, she should see- its hard to describe- but there is a look in the eyes of intensity- but also balenced with sincerity.. A pup without sincerity is like shifty in the eye - that is a dog that is either easily distracted or potentially if not trained right- will be hard to get the reliable responses. .. If you contact that one breeder already mentioned- they already know that..
I love watching it on TV!
I admire the trainers, owners and dogs for their dedication.
I belong to a GSD board and there is a woman that bought a pup for Schutzhund and we've been able to watch him as he grows and learns more and more. It's incredible!!
Since the moment they told me about this, my head has been spinning because she expects me to know everything about everything concerning the competitive world of dogs. Which of course I don't. :D
As you know borzoimom when it comes to confirmation, obedience or field work, I'm pretty much in my own element. :D However when it comes to other aspects of the dog fancy, my knowledge is limited. :eek:
They have a very well behaved, well socialized neutered Golden Retriever now, though he's never been to obedience classes. I'm thinking of suggesting that while they're doing their research; they should take the Golden through at least open A obedience training before making a final decision on acquiring a puppy for schutzhund. This would give them the opportunity to experience first hand what is involved and the length of time required to train for complete consistency in various elements.
Assuming basic obedience would be the first steps for any puppy who is eventually going to be trained in schutzhund, it seems logical to me. It would also give them the chance to see if they really want to put this much time and effort into a dog.
What do you guys think?
This sport is alot of work- its alot of fun- but alot of work.. And you have to be diligent 24/7 when you have a young one in training. Its concentrated obedience with protection and tracking.
Let them take their golden through several obedience classes with the knowledge this sport is more concentrated than simple obedience. If they feel they " want more" then its the sport for you...
If they find regular obedience hard, then this sport will feel like " marine boot camp"... I am not trying to discourage you- as you know- I am just showing the other end of the street.. Its hard work on the people and the dogs and takes major consistancy..
That's what I was thinking! If they couldn't get a Golden through Open A, they wouldn't be candidates to train a dog for schutzhund! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by borzoimom
In the meantime they can do their research, talk to breeders, attend events and meet other competitors.
Another question. What can anyone tell me about the AKC WDS titles? Aren't they somewhat similar to the shutzhund? Or are they like the AKC Master Hunter titles as opposed to the AKC Field Champion titles? The MH is an individual test. The dog does not compete against other dogs, they are judged by a performance standard. To gain the title of FC the dog is also judged by a performance standard but must actually be pronounced the winner over competition.
No they are different.. The Schuzhound title is more of a balenced trail- meaning - its not just sending your dog out- the dog has to determine when its necessary to bite. Its more police oriented- meaning- the dog can break off from going to "hold" and be called back. Just like the Master trails are different so are these.Quote:
Originally Posted by applesmom
Actually the people I know only compete in Schuzhound- no other trails exists in our minds.. lol.. Sch. is like qualifying- and judged on their own merit not against each other in many ways. Yes as in Obedience- there is a high in trail- but its not the same to get that as to finish..
I'd love to know more about the sport.
Are there as many schutzhund events as there are dog shows, obedience and agilty competitions?
Are they held all over the country?
What is the average time to train a dog for the first level?
What organization puts on these events?
Do diehard competitors concentrate on one dog at a time or do they have several dogs in various stages of training at once?
What do they do with the dogs that wash out?
On an average, how many puppies in a litter can be expected to make the grade for potential training?
Once a dog has gone as high as they can go--what's next for them?
Do any of them go on to police work?
Do they have just one judge or a panel of judges?
Whew! That's enough questions for now. ;)
Are there as many schutzhund events as there are dog shows, obedience and agilty competitions? This sport is held seperate almost all the time than regular dog show shows, and obedience events or agility. The reason is the set up, types of dogs etc and the disruption in the events like " the aggressor event" when the person antagonizes the dog etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by applesmom
Are they held all over the country? Yes
What is the average time to train a dog for the first level? Depends on if the pup started in training early or not. While a pups typically start at a year old or 18 months, all the prelimary work such as basic obedience, and taking a baton or sleeve and holding on, is taught early. ( I only encourage tug of war until the pup is at least 9 months old because of the fear stages a pup can go through..I want confidence- not fear..)
What organization puts on these events? Usually sponsered by the Sch. clubs. Not sure about some of the names of yours in Arizona. While we use to get competators from all over the country- I am not sure of the name that is local for you in your state..
Do diehard competitors concentrate on one dog at a time or do they have several dogs in various stages of training at once? Because of the amount of time and dedication it takes- usually one dog or two. The other reason is that as I said with a young dog in training- its better to have one already far along before starting another one.
What do they do with the dogs that wash out? Wash out as in can not complete? Spay or neuter and remain pets with the thier owners. You have to remember- this is a highly trained dog and its not custom for people to place these dogs in another home. There are several stages of of this. First through 3rd- and just because the dog gains a SCH 1 doesnt mean it can not continue to compete at that level. ( unlike obedience where as when you get a CD you have to move on - not competing anymore in CD level..)
On an average, how many puppies in a litter can be expected to make the grade for potential training? Depends on the breeding- I had a few litters most of the pups out of the litter made it- I had other litters there might be only 1 or two. In shepherds, if you want more sch. pups- its better to go german because they have continued that this sport is very popular.
Once a dog has gone as high as they can go--what's next for them? I have never found a level the dog could not do something more.
Do any of them go on to police work? They can- but its hard to pass the police test. YOu have to remember- the dog has developed a serious relationship with you because of this training- and usually people do not transfer or sell their dogs unless the dog is under 2. The police to pick up their pups from me at 10 months to a year. The dog would remain in the police force until retirement. If the dog " washed out " at two- the officer the dog was working with can keep the dog, or the dog use to be returned to me. I only had one come back.. One-..
Do they have just one judge or a panel of judges? Usually there is one judge- but "stewards" can observe the dog as well for comments. This is because of the distance in some of the exercises.. Depending on the club, this "steward" name can be called " several different" titles. You usually have 3 other poeple in the area, other than you, the dog, and the hidden " bad guy" is usualy hiding. Also- you are NOT to be near the area until it is your time. This keeps the dogs from getting to worked up in observing what is going on with previous competitors. In advanced competitions you can have as many as 4 judges in the area..
Some larger kennels may sell advanced dogs. However- I would raise an eyebrow at that one. Why would you part with a winning dog unless there was a health reason or training problems. Even older dogs that are spayed or neutered, they might be placed as they are no longer in their breeding program. However remember what I said about that bond between the dog and owner. I have seen ads where they will sell- but its usually for breeding reasons- meaning they trained the dogs, may have others of that same litter- However- these dogs are extremely expensive.. Extremely..