Problem with Nebo, help

Something weird happened with Nebo a few minutes ago. He was eating his food, then he got up and kind of stumbled/stood weird, I can't really describe it, but it was like very short seizure (Smokey had seizures, and Reggie had a few too, so I've seen them before). It lasted just a second or two then he stood normally and has been acting fine since.

Now I did something stupid, and I'm wondering if this caused it...I hope it did actually, as I'll just not be stupid and do that again. :o He has a quiet spot tag holder on his collar and Keva will not leave it alone, she's already chewed up one he's on his 2nd brand new one. I've tried bitter apple and that didn't deter her, so the dog trainer said to try white vinegar...didn't work either (Keva loved it), so then she said to try listerine, the brownish kind that tastes the worst. So I dipped his tag holder in that, and put it back on him. I'm wondering if the fumes just made him light headed, or maybe some dripped in his food? Do you think that could cause that? :(

I'm very paranoid when it comes to the dogs, so I'm really worried now. Luckily I have tomorrow off work so I can keep an eye on him...

Hopefully Amy, it was the Listerine. I'd just keep a close eye on him.

hmm.. I dont know, I have a feeling its prob not the listerine, seems too simple/harmless. if it were me Id call your vet and tell them what happened and at least ask if they could run it by one of the vets. if they cant do that, maybe make an appt to at least talk to your vet. they should be able to tell you if they think you should bring him in, or what those symptoms could possibly lead to and/or what to watch for. at least just keep an eye on him for a few days and see if it happens again or he has any other symptoms. I definitely hope its nothing though!! sending nebo good vibes!

I wouldn't think Listerine would have caused this-it's basically just alcohol, unless in fact the fumes made him feel a little dizzy. It may be just a one time thing...if it happens again, I would get him into the vet for some bloodwork. As I'm sure you know, huskies are prone to epilepsy and symptoms may not show up until later in life.

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Originally Posted by wolf_Q

then she said to try listerine, the brownish kind that tastes the worst.

So I dipped his tag holder in that, and put it back on him.
I'm wondering if the fumes just made him light headed,
:(

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Hang onto your hat ...

I just looked up the "MSDS" (Material Safety Data Sheet) for "Listerine" ---
the reference information that all chemical manufacturers MUST publish to
explain to Emergency Service Folks (Police & Fire) just what is in all the chemicals
we can run into. It makes for some interesting reading - This One for SURE!! :eek:

NUTZ!
They've got .pdf file booby-trapped so I can't copy & paste ...

Let's just say the "ingredients" in Listerine would make me want to wear an Air Pack and
full turn-out gear if there was a spill!

And we **DRINK** this stuff?? :eek:

It's quite possible the "fumes" from his tag upset Nebo ... :(

Here's the MSDS Page for Listerine -
you'll need a .PDF Viewer to open it.

http://www.biggestbook.com/MSDSFiles/MSDSCoolMint.pdf

/s/ Phred

I hope it was nothing serious, Amy. Honestly, after reading the MSDS, I think I'll run straight into the bathroom and "properly" dispose of the mouthwash in there :eek: That's pretty scary. I wouldn't be at all surprised that it was the problem. Keep us posted.

oh wow great find phred!

upon reading it does say to avoid inhalation of vapors or mist and to avoid contact with clothing. also says under inhalation: "exposure to high concentrations" can cause drowsiness or drunkenness.

so.. maybe that was it, but Id only think so if it was still damp or was recently saturated. otherwise I imagine it had had plenty of time to air out.

gotta keep in mind those warnings are basically for mis-use/over dosage. though since the product wasnt made for use in animals the effects could certainally be much different.

I hope Nebo is ok! I'd definatly keep an eye on him! hopefully it's just the listerine.

Good vibes being sent Nebo's way. Hopefully tomorrow he'll be ok and it will have been a one-time event. I don't know if it would be the mouthwash, though. My vet told me to rub Star's gums with mouthwash to keep down the bacteria & plaque around her broken molar. I hope between you & the vet you can get some answers.

good vibes sent your way and Nebo's way - I'd make sure you tell the vet tho so that way OTHER'S don't have a problem.

I'm not sure what the symptoms mean, but I'm keeping all fingers crossed that it was just the mouthwash. Keep us updated on how he's doing!

Thanks for the replies/info everyone.

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Originally Posted by pessimisaurus

so.. maybe that was it, but Id only think so if it was still damp or was recently saturated. otherwise I imagine it had had plenty of time to air out.

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It was. Yes, I'm an idiot, I did not even think of it hurting him, I dipped the tag holder in it and put the collar back on. In fact I've washed the tag holder twice with soap and I can still smell it.

Nebo is a very sensitive dog, it doesn't take much to make him sick.

Just hoping this is a one-time thing. :( :(

Sounds like you are back to your original problem: What to put on Nebo's tag holder so Keva won't eat it! :rolleyes:

Wishing Nebo full health.

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Originally Posted by chocolatepuppy

Hopefully Amy, it was the Listerine. I'd just keep a close eye on him.

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If it was straight listerine- yea probably so. Or made him " momentarily high" so to speak..
I have never really found vinegar to work- but only a few cases of bitter apple have I found not to work.. I would suggest changing it for a new one- one that doesnt have the "established behavior" of being chewed on. Also- was the tag metal? or plastic? Whichever it was get the opposite. Or a tag that attaches to the color on the strap of it- not a dangle.

How old is nebo? as my 11 yr old suka had something similar to this , has a couple of times now, it lasts for a few seconds , she does the same as you described that nebo did, she seems to have these funny turns though when laying down though!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :( Hope hes ok now, but keep an eye on him, sukas may be age related.

Poor Nebo. Sounds like the listerine is the culprit. Don't blame yourself though. The trainer suggested it so how were you to know?

*HUGS*

How is Nebo this morning??
{Hugs} to you!

Have you tried a dab or two of tobasco sauce to stop the chewing? My RB dog Sami chewed everything as a pup and she loved all the sprays that she shouldn't have. The only thing that saved the corner of the cupboards was painting it with tobasco sauce, she didn't like that.

Nebo is acting fine this morning. He's 4 years old, he'll be 5 in May. He has a combination of metal and plastic tags, but its not the tags she chews on its one of these (the tags are inside) http://www.lovemydogtraining.com/ass...quiet_spot.jpg It is a new one I just put it on a few days ago, she chewed up the old one so bad I threw it away. They are $8 a piece so it's getting expensive. I don't know if I dare try anything else, I'll just buy more tag holders after she kills them...I just want Nebo to be ok. :(

Archie and Tobey used to do the same to all their tags - they now have little steel canisters with their names and addresses written on a piece of paper inside - so far they are still intact!

Glad to hear Nebo is okay - sounds like you were right with your diagnosis

If the reason you have the tags in that bag is to keep his jingeling tags quiet, then instead of buying another one you can just tape them together to keep them quiet until the little trouble making girl stops chewing on it!
Just a thought.

Actually the reason is because his tags stain the white fur on his neck really bad, and as a groomer, it drove me crazy. :o It's taken over a year with the tag holders to even get rid of the stains they wouldn't come off with any shampoo I tried. He wears a thick rolled leather collar and he has multiple tags (ID, rabies, city license, microchip, etc.) so any sort of tag that goes on the actual collar doesn't really work. Tape might work though and keep the stains off, I may try it, thanks.

I wonder if you can buy neoprene? Thats what quiet spots are made out of they look fairly easy to make.

I hope Nebo is doing okay today. Give the cutie pie a big hug for me. :)

Ohhh.. I see!
Well... I don't know if you know how to sew at all... but you could make a little bag for his tags. Just a tiny simple bag with a draw string to keep it on.
I used to make purses when I was little on my mom's sewing machine like this. :o
Cut the material out with the bottom of the bag on the fold of the material. Sew up the 2 open sides and sew in a little casing for the draw string. Easier said than done I know, I just figured if you or your mom knew how to sew. You could make these little bags until Nebo's sweet little sister can keep her teeth off of the $8 tag bags!

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Originally Posted by wolf_Q

Nebo is acting fine this morning. He's 4 years old, he'll be 5 in May. He has a combination of metal and plastic tags, but its not the tags she chews on its one of these (the tags are inside) http://www.lovemydogtraining.com/ass...quiet_spot.jpg It is a new one I just put it on a few days ago, she chewed up the old one so bad I threw it away. They are $8 a piece so it's getting expensive. I don't know if I dare try anything else, I'll just buy more tag holders after she kills them...I just want Nebo to be ok. :(

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Try something like this.. http://www.crownpointkennels.com/store/brass_tags.htm

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Originally Posted by wolf_Q

Actually the reason is because his tags stain the white fur on his neck really bad, and as a groomer, it drove me crazy. :o It's taken over a year with the tag holders to even get rid of the stains they wouldn't come off with any shampoo I tried. He wears a thick rolled leather collar and he has multiple tags (ID, rabies, city license, microchip, etc.) so any sort of tag that goes on the actual collar doesn't really work. Tape might work though and keep the stains off, I may try it, thanks.

I wonder if you can buy neoprene? Thats what quiet spots are made out of they look fairly easy to make.

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What about plastic tags? Mine both have plastic tags, I dont see how they would stain but mine don't have white fur either...

Poor Nebo :( Don't be so hard on yourself either...I hope he's all better now.

my suggestion would be to wrap the tags in tape or something until Keva is about 6 months old or so, when shes stopped "teething".

the other thing is to watch her 100% of the time when shes with Nebo (if you cant watch her then take the quiet spot or nebo's collar off) and as soon as she goes to chew the quiet spot, clap your hands loudly and say "AH!-AH!" to inturrupt her, and then redirect her to an appropriate chew item, one that is similar in material to the quiet spot, so a stuffie or something.

chewing is a drive behavior, and dogs hate to be inturrupted during a drive. its similar to us being engaged in a good book or some engaging behavior- if everytime you sat down to read in the livingroom you were inturrupted, you wouldnt just stop reading, you just wont do it in the livingroom anymore. its the same thing with dogs- if everytime she chews the quiet spot she is inturrupted, she will soon learn that a.) its pointless to chew nebo's quiet spot, so she may as well just chew her toys and b.) when you say "Ah!-Ah!" she can look to you for something good to chew on. It takes a few days of this before they figure it out, but it works, you just have to be consistent.

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Originally Posted by Brody's Mum

Archie and Tobey used to do the same to all their tags - they now have little steel canisters with their names and addresses written on a piece of paper inside - so far they are still intact!

Glad to hear Nebo is okay - sounds like you were right with your diagnosis

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May I ask where you got the little cannister? Sherman gets his tags stuck between the deck boards & rips them off a couple times a year. I now sew his flat onto his collar, but this sounds like it might work too.
I'm glad Nebo seems to be doing alright now, and hoping he stays that way!

You can also buy dog tag silencers that actually go around the edge of the dog tags, if their jingling is what is cheering Keva on.

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Originally Posted by pessimisaurus

if everytime she chews the quiet spot she is inturrupted, she will soon learn that a.) its pointless to chew nebo's quiet spot, so she may as well just chew her toys and b.) when you say "Ah!-Ah!" she can look to you for something good to chew on. It takes a few days of this before they figure it out, but it works, you just have to be consistent.

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Have fun with your husky pup, I hope he will listen better than Keva. ;) I've been teaching her consistantly since the day I brought her home that the front room is off limits. I clap/yell/etc and she'll run out when I do, but she always goes back later, and I catch her in the act every time. I do the same when she chews on the tag holder, and she'll stop...then do it again. I offer her toys instead and she'll chew on it for a bit, but the tag holder is much more entertaining. She's a stubborn little bugger. Nebo was a nawtee puppy in other ways, but he listened much better...she's fearless, nothing phases her.

I'm not that concerned about the tag holder, it has one hole in it, but otherwise ok. The other one I threw away was over a year old anyway, I'll just buy him a new one at Strut Your Mutt...I'm sure this one will be sufficiently destroyed by then. :rolleyes:

haha ah yes, well, Id say read this: http://jamesandkenneth.com/PDF_docs/J&KBEFOREtext.pdf

theres a section (chapter 4, starts on page 30) about chew training and good ways to manage a puppy until its trained, you may find some helpful info in there, particularly with management. the ex-pen is my best friend. lol my board & train pups spend most of their time in there so as to avoid learning bad habits (as well as to teach them how to be alone, what to chew on, and to help with house training, etc). I dont know if the quiet spot is the only "illegal" chew issue youre having, but this book has tons of awesome info, even for experienced puppy owners.

the front room is a different issue, thats more a management problem it sounds like. you can try timeouts if shes never allowed in there ever. they are pretty simple, and generally only take a few days to work. all you do is as soon as she steps one foot in the off limits area you say "Too Bad!" and then go pick her up and put her behind the nearest door (closet, bathroom, bedroom, crate, etc) for *10* seconds. after 10 seconds, open the door, say ok! and let her back out. usually it takes 4-5 time outs at a time, for just a few days, and then they figure it out. its pretty amazing!

I think Amy if very aware of how to train a Husky. ;)


Oh poor Bebo! How is he doing today, Amy?

Don't feel bad, who would have known that listerine would cause that?

Keva sounds like a typical Husky pup and I know with your great knowledge and experience with Huskies she will turn out just as wonderful as Bebo. :)

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Originally Posted by wolf_Q

She's a stubborn little bugger. Nebo was a nawtee puppy in other ways, but he listened much better...she's fearless, nothing phases her.
:rolleyes:

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LOL! She sounds like my Star! Fortunately we got our destructo-puppy girl out of that phase without too much damage all around. That stubborn streak is still with her! Sherman's so much easier to deal with. Maybe you've just got a little alpha on your hands- Look out, Nebo!LOL! You've done such a wonderful job with Nebo, Keva will turn out fine too.