Dachshunds are rare?

Okay. PT, I know you can come through for me on this one. :)

I saw a post on craigslist by a woman offering a long haired, black and tan, Dachshund. She claimed that this dog was rare on that basis alone (or any combination, thereof). I sent her a *polite* email telling her that Dachshunds are, by no means, a rare breed. She sent back an email accusing me of being rude and getting angry saying that because some people emailed her wanting the dog, telling her that they couldnt find that specific "breed" (long hair, black and tan), then that meant it was rare, etc.

So, I would like to send back a polite email pointing out a few simple things. I've already compiled a few things. Any information is greatly appreciated. I would love to hear Doxie fanciers opinions on this, as well.

Thank you much! :)

well while dachounds are not rare, some colors are- like the dapple and yes- the long haired black and tan. This is based off of number of registered dogs and colors listed with the AKC as far as registries.
Just like in my breed the self colors ( ie black) are considered more rare, same thing here.
I hate to tell you- but she had a right to be offended. I mean you were not even asking to adopt the dog, but rather even I would see this as a challange against her word.
Question- why did you inquire to her to start with? Where you interested in the dog? If not, you probably came across to her as just wanting to " start something" ..
Long hairs are more common in reds- or solid blacks- not black and tan. She is correct as far as the color- it is more rare in the breed..
Just remember- this is someones baby.. And with you having no interest in getting the dog, you were probably perceived as just " wasting her time..."
IMO...

I respectfully disagree -- the two most common colours in smooth and longhair doxies are red and black and tan -- these are also known as the "classic" colours. These are also the base colours that modify the colour patterns (brindle, merle, etc) in the breed. Red and black and tan are also dominant colours. The only colour really considered rare in the longhair is sable. Wirehair is a bit different, it's most commom colour is wild boar.

We only have two longhair doxies that come into the shop, and both of them are black and tan..

Personally I think people should avoid writing "rare" in an ad. It makes people more interested in the rarity of the dog rather than the dog itself. Visa has rare lines, but I sure as heck wouldn't put that in an ad.

Well I looked at the akc registrations and long haired black and tan are pretty low on the scale- except of course for dapple. ( man those are pretty.)
I think the lady wanted to know why the poster contacted them.. Anyway- I have a friend that also has raised dachounds for a long time. Its hard to get a black and tan- all black - easy, all red- easy- not with proper tan markings ( ie eyebrows etc..)

What a sly way for this lady to make a little extra cash. :rolleyes:

If you look on www.petfinder.org a lone there are 2414 Dachshunds and Dachshund Mixes up for adoption. Rare? I think not.

The only Dachshunds I've ever met have been Black and Tan or all Red.

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Originally Posted by borzoimom

well while dachounds are not rare, some colors are- like the dapple and yes- the long haired black and tan. This is based off of number of registered dogs and colors listed with the AKC as far as registries.
Just like in my breed the self colors ( ie black) are considered more rare, same thing here.
I hate to tell you- but she had a right to be offended. I mean you were not even asking to adopt the dog, but rather even I would see this as a challange against her word.
Question- why did you inquire to her to start with? Where you interested in the dog? If not, you probably came across to her as just wanting to " start something" ..
Long hairs are more common in reds- or solid blacks- not black and tan. She is correct as far as the color- it is more rare in the breed..
Just remember- this is someones baby.. And with you having no interest in getting the dog, you were probably perceived as just " wasting her time..."
IMO...

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Some of the info is my own gathered things from observation. I am a Doxie person so I've done a lot of reading, understanding, and all that goes along with (Well, you know! You're a shower, breeder, etc. :) ) having the right knowledge for your breed. Just because that's what's registered does not mean that is all that is out there. Dachshunds seem, to me, to be some of the most overbred small dogs. There are many black and tan Doxies. In fact, when I pull up petfinder for an area, that is the most common coat colour/pattern I've seen.

I have seen more black and tan Doxies than any (the rest being a variety... wheaten, red, etc). About half are long haired. From my understanding the norm in Doxie colours are red, black and tan, and one other that just completely flew off the edge of my brain (brain collapse or whatnot, heh). Those and their respective patterns seem to be the norm. The colours that are not the norm are wheaten, isabella, cream, etc. Coat patterns such as brindle, dapple, etc, also seem to fall outside of the norm.

I don't know. I've just been reading about and studying Dachshunds for about six years. I just felt that I had some valuable input.

So, Thank you for your reply! I appreciate it and will be sure to talk abou such things in my email. :)

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Originally Posted by Kfamr

What a sly way for this lady to make a little extra cash. :rolleyes:

If you look on www.petfinder.org a lone there are 2414 Dachshunds and Dachshund Mixes up for adoption. Rare? I think not.

The only Dachshunds I've ever met have been Black and Tan or all Red.

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sly is right.. lol.. I never see too many black and tan long haired at shows, but plenty in the short coats.

Good for you wenisrubber, she sounds pretty unethical.

Keep fighting the good fight.

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Originally Posted by borzoimom

well while dachounds are not rare, some colors are- like the dapple and yes- the long haired black and tan. This is based off of number of registered dogs and colors listed with the AKC as far as registries.
Just like in my breed the self colors ( ie black) are considered more rare, same thing here.
I hate to tell you- but she had a right to be offended. I mean you were not even asking to adopt the dog, but rather even I would see this as a challange against her word.
Question- why did you inquire to her to start with? Where you interested in the dog? If not, you probably came across to her as just wanting to " start something" ..
Long hairs are more common in reds- or solid blacks- not black and tan. She is correct as far as the color- it is more rare in the breed..
Just remember- this is someones baby.. And with you having no interest in getting the dog, you were probably perceived as just " wasting her time..."
IMO...

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Some of the info is my own gathered things from observation. I am a Doxie person so I've done a lot of reading, understanding, and all that goes along with (Well, you know! You're a shower, breeder, etc. :) ) having the right knowledge for your breed. Just because that's what's registered does not mean that is all that is out there. Dachshunds seem, to me, to be some of the most overbred small dogs. There are many black and tan Doxies. In fact, when I pull up petfinder for an area, that is the most common coat colour/pattern I've seen.

I have seen more black and tan Doxies than any (the rest being a variety... wheaten, red, etc). About half are long haired. From my understanding the norm in Doxie colours are red, black and tan, and one other that just completely flew off the edge of my brain (brain collapse or whatnot, heh). Those and their respective patterns seem to be the norm. The colours that are not the norm are wheaten, isabella, cream, etc. Coat patterns such as brindle, dapple, etc, also seem to fall outside of the norm.

I don't know. I've just been reading about and studying Dachshunds for about six years. I just felt that I had some valuable input.

So, Thank you for your reply! I appreciate it and will be sure to talk abou such things in my email. :)

I just ignore stupid peoples ads.. lol.. We had a lady that put that she had sammys with rare tan coloring.. duhhhhhhhhhhhhh undercoat of markings of cream can happen.. lol. Its like the ads you see that say " rare blue and brown eye in huskies"... duh... Half the ones I have seen have this eye color combination..

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Originally Posted by wolfsoul

I respectfully disagree -- the two most common colours in smooth and longhair doxies are red and black and tan -- these are also known as the "classic" colours. These are also the base colours that modify the colour patterns (brindle, merle, etc) in the breed. Red and black and tan are also dominant colours. The only colour really considered rare in the longhair is sable. Wirehair is a bit different, it's most commom colour is wild boar.

We only have two longhair doxies that come into the shop, and both of them are black and tan..

Personally I think people should avoid writing "rare" in an ad. It makes people more interested in the rarity of the dog rather than the dog itself. Visa has rare lines, but I sure as heck wouldn't put that in an ad.

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Indeed, that was one of the things that came to mind was the "rare" part of the ad. I think that was the reason she had so many responses. Heck, where she lives, it's a huge metro city with three Doxie breeders (one seems to be reputable enough, though) alone.

I feel bad for the pooch. :(

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Originally Posted by borzoimom

Well I looked at the akc registrations and long haired black and tan are pretty low on the scale- except of course for dapple. ( man those are pretty.)
I think the lady wanted to know why the poster contacted them.. Anyway- I have a friend that also has raised dachounds for a long time. Its hard to get a black and tan- all black - easy, all red- easy- not with proper tan markings ( ie eyebrows etc..)

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After doing a bit of reading, I've learned that all black Doxies are pretty rare, as far as colouring goes. :confused: It seems to happen when people are breeding for black and tan but there is so little tan that the dog appears all black.

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Originally Posted by caseysmom

Good for you wenisrubber, she sounds pretty unethical.

Keep fighting the good fight.

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I am trying, I am trying! :D

I don't know. I just feel that I need to stick up for those who can't stick up for themselves! :)

I hope she contacts a rescue but not likely, eh? :(

Perhaps the woman actually meant "hard to find" ... which may very well be true in her area. We all make mistakes with wording things. ;)

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Originally Posted by Wenisrubber

After doing a bit of reading, I've learned that all black Doxies are pretty rare, as far as colouring goes. :confused: It seems to happen when people are breeding for black and tan but there is so little tan that the dog appears all black.

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That is correct. If the tan markings are not in the specific places, they are called a black.
I am sorry- I should have explained that one.. I am use to not being able to type more than a certain number of characters but I am learning to expand.. I am sorry- I should have said that..

My art teacher brings in her 3 doxies sometimes and 2 of them are black and tan.

I've only ever seen, I think, two dachshunds in my life and these were both within like the last month.

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Originally Posted by kimlovescats

Perhaps the woman actually meant "hard to find" ... which may very well be true in her area. We all make mistakes with wording things. ;)

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Dachshunds are incredibly popular in Oregon. In Portlands metro area alone they have three breeders (one of which looks pretty reputable!), many rescues (being around a highly activist area), etc. Plus, there is petfinder. There are also the local ads and the ads at petsmart, etc. They're not hard to find. Heh.

Being from Oregon myself, and have previously looked for a Dachshund, this is all information that I've learned. :)

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Originally Posted by borzoimom

That is correct. If the tan markings are not in the specific places, they are called a black.
I am sorry- I should have explained that one.. I am use to not being able to type more than a certain number of characters but I am learning to expand.. I am sorry- I should have said that..

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I don't think that is correct. (Remember, just because something is applicable to one breed does not mean it it applicable to another). It is not true that they must have a black dot on their tan points. In the case of a dachshund with too little tan that is considered a fault. A black and tan dachshunds coat will be black all over with tan points (tan on feet, over eyes, on face around muzzle, on chest, under tail). Black and tans will have a black nose, and black nails. Breeding too many black and tans will slowly reduce and/or eliminate the tan points (this is a fault - this is meant to be two-color). A black dachshund will be black all over.
Black dachshunds will have NO tan points.
Blacks will have a black nose, and black nails.
This is not the result of continuous breeding of black/tan to black/tan. True Blacks appear to breed dominant over the black and tan.

My sister has a long hair, black & tan dachshund.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...s/IMG_7362.jpg

They certainly aren't rare. That's like calling a chocolate lab rare just because you see them slightly less often than you see yellow or black labs. Poor dog, hopefully it will find a great home and hopefully it's neutered.

Actually long hairs in general are pretty rare. Think about all the doxies you see, and tell me how many of them are longhair? It is hard to find a good longhaired doxie breeder anywhere. Even the wire haired doxies are easier to get ahold of. I wouldn't call the coloring rare by any means. Everyone here knows there are plenty of black and tans out there. BTW, I live in Oregon and I have two doxies..or had anyway. One red and one red and white piebald. You wanna talk about rare. Lets talk about the piebald doxie. Tell me how many of those you see? ;)

(Oh btw, Maxine and the boy puppy went to a home together, in case I didn't tell anyone. ;))

Honestly, I see just as many longhairs as I do smooth. It's hard to find a reputable breeder period, if you're looking for a Dachshund. No matter whether they're long, wire or smooth. I'd also say that whether they're longhaired or not, 99% of the ones I see are either black and tan or red. I've met one blue/tan, one fawn/tan, a couple of dapples, one brindle and about five piebalds.

Longhairs most certainly are not rare, and blk/tan is the second most common colour in the Dachshund. That lady obviously doesn't have a clue what she's talking about. The breed as a whole is also extremely popular. I run into them absolutely everywhere and I also own two (one red, one blk/tan - both smooths).

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Originally Posted by Orangutango

Honestly, I see just as many longhairs as I do smooth. It's hard to find a reputable breeder period, if you're looking for a Dachshund. No matter whether they're long, wire or smooth. I'd also say that whether they're longhaired or not, 99% of the ones I see are either black and tan or red. I've met one blue/tan, one fawn/tan, a couple of dapples, one brindle and about five piebalds.

Longhairs most certainly are not rare, and blk/tan is the second most common colour in the Dachshund. That lady obviously doesn't have a clue what she's talking about. The breed as a whole is also extremely popular.

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Knowing MANY breeder of doxies and doing doxie rescue and having placed 4 in the past 6 months I have come to the conclusion that indeed they are pretty rare, hence the reason they charge more. ;) Like I said the color isn't rare, and the breed definitely isn't, but search around online and talk to a few breeders and they will most certaintly tell you the most common doxie is a short hair. ;) I mean I guess you wouldn't call them rare, just not as common. That would probably sum it up better. She's just probably trying to make a few extra bucks.

Just curious but how have you seen so many piebalds? Is there a breeder near you? I feel so sorry for the piebalds. :(

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Originally Posted by luckies4me

Actually long hairs in general are pretty rare. Think about all the doxies you see, and tell me how many of them are longhair? It is hard to find a good longhaired doxie breeder anywhere. Even the wire haired doxies are easier to get ahold of. I wouldn't call the coloring rare by any means. Everyone here knows there are plenty of black and tans out there. BTW, I live in Oregon and I have two doxies..or had anyway. One red and one red and white piebald. You wanna talk about rare. Lets talk about the piebald doxie. Tell me how many of those you see? ;)

(Oh btw, Maxine and the boy puppy went to a home together, in case I didn't tell anyone. ;))

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I took a cruise through the last few show books, and most were hound like specialities and the numers of long hairs is like not even a 1/4 of the short haired.
Piebald-??? Holy cow!!! I would consider that very rare! lollllllllll...

Cass, my post wasn't directed towards you...though it may have sounded like it by accident. But you are right, less common would be a better term than rare. It also probably depends on the area aswell, as I don't live anywhere near you.

May I ask why you feel sorry for the Piebalds?

Most of the pies I'e seen were at the few dog shows I've been to. I've seen a couple in the petstore once with their owner, both of whom they got from a very good breeder in BC. There was BYB breeding tons a while back and selling with pies and dapples as rare colours, but I haven't heard anything of her in a while.

One of the regulars at my work has two longhaired Doxies. One is black and tan and the other is red. :)

OOOh I found the breeder my friend got a puppy from! Check out her dogs. They are spectacular. She is one of the few in OR with longhairs, and they are just beautiful! :D She sometimes comes to Eugene and brings her dogs with her. She has two black and tan longhairs (don't remember their names) that are rescues and they are just the cutest things ever! :D

http://www.longdox.com/

Kinda random, they were having Daschund races at the dog park a few weeks ago. There were probably 75+ Daschunds there. Lots of black and tans, one LILAC and tan. Now THAT'S rare, or at least unusual. :) (I think.)

My grandma raised Daschunds!

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Originally Posted by Orangutango

May I ask why you feel sorry for the Piebalds?

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I take it you haven't read any of my doxie posts eh? ;) Well because people think they are more expensive they overbreed, which is how I came to get Frankie, Halfy and Yogie. Halfy and Yogie were born blind, due to bad breeding, and are related to Frankie. Same parents, different litter. I have seen so many people breed them only for money because they look so different than other dachshunds. :( Fortunately Yogie was placed quickly in a home with no other pets and no children. Because he couldn't see he was very nippy towards his sister, so I found a home with no children too. Halfy could see out of one eye, but was blind in the other. She was a great dog. I wanted to keep them both but having to care for Frankie and deal with all his health issues and having Maxine too (the elderly doxie with almost no teeth) it was best they found a home. They are both now very spoiled rotten. I just hope the breeder does stop breeding because I cannot have dogs now due to my health issues and I don't want to be in a situation where I have to take another puppy. :( I have just seen them exploited one too many times. They even had an all white one that they sold for $1,000 I think, but it died a few months later. :(

Cathy, it was probably an isabella (Otherwise known as fawn) and tan. Lilac isn't a recognized term in the breed. Isabellas and blues are dilutes, and therefore can have many skin/coat problems (alopecia) just like dilute Dobermans and other breeds with dilute colours. They are pretty rare for the above reason.

Here's a web page with the different colours and coats Dachshunds come in:

http://www.keystonekennelusa.com/Min_Dach_Color.html

Though I'd highly recommend to anyone to stay as far away from that kennel as possible if they're looking for a pup..

Cass, a lot of the Doxies in that link are beautiful. I hope my (a loong time from now) next is a longhair. :)

I probably did read your posts about them a while ago, but I read so many threads and just forgot. That makes sense though. I'm so sorry about your's. That's terrible. Luckily there doesn't seem to be too big of a problem like that around here. As far as I know though most blind pies seem to have a double dapple somewhere way back in their line, though I could be mistaken. It's been a while since I've read much about Dachsie colours and genetics and such.

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Originally Posted by Orangutango

Cathy, it was probably an isabella (Otherwise known as fawn) and tan. Lilac isn't a recognized term in the breed. Isabellas and blues are dilutes, and therefore can have many skin/coat problems (alopecia) just like dilute Dobermans and other breeds with dilute colours. They are pretty rare for the above reason.

Here's a web page with the different colours and coats Dachshunds come in:

http://www.keystonekennelusa.com/Min_Dach_Color.html

Though I'd highly recommend to anyone to stay as far away from that kennel as possible if they're looking for a pup..

Cass, a lot of the Doxies in that link are beautiful. I hope my (a loong time from now) next is a longhair. :)

I probably did read your posts about them a while ago, but I read so many threads and just forgot. That makes sense though. I'm so sorry about your's. That's terrible. Luckily there doesn't seem to be too big of a problem like that around here. As far as I know though most blind pies seem to have a double dapple somewhere way back in their line, though I could be mistaken. It's been a while since I've read much about Dachsie colours and genetics and such.

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You're exactly right. Mom was double dapple. ;)

I'm confused -- piebalds are a recognisable colour that even reputable breeders tote as being very safe -- they don't have the type of pigment lacking that white boxers and white dobermans have -- I've never heard of nor seen a blind or deaf piebald. :confused:

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Originally Posted by Orangutango

Cathy, it was probably an isabella (Otherwise known as fawn) and tan. Lilac isn't a recognized term in the breed. Isabellas and blues are dilutes, and therefore can have many skin/coat problems (alopecia) just like dilute Dobermans and other breeds with dilute colours. They are pretty rare for the above reason.

Here's a web page with the different colours and coats Dachshunds come in:

http://www.keystonekennelusa.com/Min_Dach_Color.html

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Yep. The owner did tell me he was inherited after a friend died and she didn't yet know much about him so I'm not surprised she didn't have it correct. :)

Jordan, you're correct. The problem is though, is that a lot of BYBs have bred double dapples into their pie lines which is causing each piebald with the DDs in their' background to throw blind and/or deaf puppies. Most of the pups, by looking at them, you'd never know they had dapple anywhere in their line. Some will have a few very faint patches that are barely noticeable but most will just be the regular bicolour or tricolour that a pie should be, or they'll be born completely white. I hope that makes sense.

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Originally Posted by wolfsoul

I'm confused -- piebalds are a recognisable colour that even reputable breeders tote as being very safe -- they don't have the type of pigment lacking that white boxers and white dobermans have -- I've never heard of nor seen a blind or deaf piebald. :confused:

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Double dapples and piebalds have a high tendency of being born blind, or with no eyes at all. Keep in mind that those breeders breed responsibly. ;) In every litter Frankie's mother has had every piebald has had issues. I really need to post the photos of the puppies. Yogie is completely blind! Not only blind but his eyes are not even formed correctly. Instead of being a circle they are square shaped and with barely any color...the color he does have is blue. Frankie has one blue eye, but it's not effected. Halfy has only one eye that is affected, and she also has sporatic bouts of seizures that started when she was about 12 weeks old. Piebalds have been around forever, I know this, since the 1900's I believe. A lot of piebalds are double dapples, which is where the problem comes from. However, the dapple which was NOT piebald in Frankles litter had no eyes at all. They were just sockets. If you want I would be more than happy to fax over the health records to you if you want to take a look. :) It's pretty interesting. But as you know, Frankie was also born deformed.

Typed here from permission of the author...as I've used this many times before when explaining what happened with Frankie and his brothers and sisters. Found here: http://www.starlightkennel.com/Dapple.html Notice how it says all double dapples will have white markings, which is how you get a lot of piebalds. Though, I believe technically, piebalds are different than double dapples and excepted for show.

Double Dapple - Double Dapple is the color of a dog that is a result of breeding two dapple dachshunds (sometimes referred to as (single dapple in discussions such as this) or two double dapple dachshunds or a single dapple and a double dapple breeding. When you breed two single dapple dachshunds, the color possibilities are solid, single dapple, and double dapple. When you breed two double dapples, you can only produce double dapples. When you breed a single dapple to a double dapple, you can produce single dapples and double dapples. The reason for these possibilities is that the single dapple is a heterozygous dapple and the double dapple is a homozygous dapple. The heterozygous dapple can pass a solid gene or a dapple gene for any given puppy. The homozygous dapple can only pass a dapple gene. Double dapple puppies will always have white markings, many in the same pattern that you would associate with a collie type dog (band around the neck, white on paws, noise, and tail tip.) The white may be more or less extensive. The double dapple dachshund usually has blue eyes but may have one or both dark eyes. Both parents must be dapple to get double dapples.

"WARNING Double Dapple Defects - There are lethal genes commonly associated with double dapple. Not all double dapples have these problems and it is believed by some to be more of a problem in some lines than in others. The problems associated with lethal genes in double dapples there are varying degrees of vision and hearing loss, including reduced or absent eyes. So if you decide that you want a double dapple puppy, be prepared for possible problems that may not be diagnosed at a young age, and if you want to breed a double dapple interestingly if a blind or deaf double dapple is bred to a normal dog, the lethal traits are not passed on to the offspring, however most of the puppies of the double dapple will be dapple. Remember that single dapple dachshunds do not have lethal problems and if a single dapple is bred to a solid (any non-dapple) there are no problems associated with single dapple dachshunds."

Links:
scroll down to Breeding
http://www.burkesbackyard.com.au/199...eds/dachshunds

Story of a blind doxie
http://www.la-spca.org/dedication/talk/tt_dachshund.htm

Here's a rescue doxie that needs a home. Look at the eyes. This is how Yogies eyes are.
http://www.drna.org/description.asp?DogID=1558

And another. This one looks so much like Halfy. Her name is Halfy because her face is split down the middle like this guy.
http://www.drna.org/description.asp?DogID=1202


Here is some information on the eye disease I found online. Apparently a lot of breeds are affected including dobermans.

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Originally Posted by luckies4me

Actually long hairs in general are pretty rare. Think about all the doxies you see, and tell me how many of them are longhair? It is hard to find a good longhaired doxie breeder anywhere. Even the wire haired doxies are easier to get ahold of. I wouldn't call the coloring rare by any means. Everyone here knows there are plenty of black and tans out there. BTW, I live in Oregon and I have two doxies..or had anyway. One red and one red and white piebald. You wanna talk about rare. Lets talk about the piebald doxie. Tell me how many of those you see? ;)

(Oh btw, Maxine and the boy puppy went to a home together, in case I didn't tell anyone. ;))

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Indeed! I have never seen a piebald in person. I saw one, on the net, that looked like a little beagle. :eek:

I love Doxies. :D

:) bump