I noticed this article this morning & I wanted to see what you think of
this camp. It looks a little scary to me. What's your opinion?
http://www.theindychannel.com/family...38/detail.html
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I noticed this article this morning & I wanted to see what you think of
this camp. It looks a little scary to me. What's your opinion?
http://www.theindychannel.com/family...38/detail.html
Someone it sounds extrem(sp?)like praying over a geogre w.bush cutout but I would give my life for Jesus.He is my Lord and Saved Me.
From Fiddler on the Roof:
Townsmans - "An eye for an eye - and a tooth for a tooth!"
Tevye - "Very good. That way the whole world will be blind and toothless."
If these were adults making their own decision - fine. But it is one adult running a very specific set of "lessons" for kids.
God help us.
Zippy, look up "Jonestown Massacre". Beware of people that create God in THEIR own image.
JMO
There is no question that I am a Christian...but that camp looks wayy extreme. To compare it to an extremist Muslim camp? That should say something about it right there. Shouting at kids "this is war?" Yikes! A bit scary IMO.
That is really scary.
I think that camp is horriable! It sounds like a cult. :mad: It also makes Christans look bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catty1
but I would give my life for Jesus my Lord and Savior.
We do not know the truth of the camp from one article, nor even from the movie, according to a radio interview I heard with the woman who runs the camp. Keep in mind that the filmmaker has a point of view he is trying to get across, and that may color the truth.
I agree!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy
The 'crying to god' part got me remembering. I was in College, and had a friend who kept trying to get me to go to 'youth group' on a friday night. He asked me - very friendly - almost every week, but I was always busy, and not at all religious so just really didn't have the interest. One friday I turned out to be free. So I agreed to go, while keeping an open mind about the whole thing.
Everything seemed fairly normal (based on previous youth groups i had attended with friends as a one-off visit) - people chatting, etc.
Once the person (minister, leader, whatever?) showed up and started preaching, there were kids (this was a group for like 8-25yo) screaming, crying, talking in tongues (seriously), and falling to the floor crying out to god and jesus and such.
I left - i couldn't handle it. I was still friends with the guy for the rest of college, but I never went back to youth group.
This article kind of reminded me of that - the whole atmosphere. To each their own I guess, but it was rather disconcerting watching a 10 year old boy rolling on the floor speaking in tongues and crying.
The camp seems to be very extreme. To each is own though, I suppose, as long as the parents know what their kids are getting into.
But these paragraphs in the article made me cringe, it has a very bad choice of words:
No no no, I wouldn't say "Muslims". I would say terrorists, extremists, etc. You cannot lump a race together and make that statement. A good majority of the Muslims aren't sending their kids to camps to come kill themselves over here. They WILL defend themselves if necessary, but...that just bothered me.Quote:
"If you look at the world's population, one third of that 6.7 billion people are children under the age of 15," Fischer said. "Where should we be putting our efforts? Where should we be putting our focus? I'll tell you where our enemies are putting it. They're putting it on the kids. They're going into the schools."
Fischer went on to say that Muslims in other countries are taking their kids to camps like "we take our kids" to bible camps. She said Muslims are teaching their kids to use rifles, how to put on bomb belts and to use machine guns.
"It's no wonder with that kind of intense training in discipling (sic) that those young people are ready to kill themselves for the cause of Islam," Fischer said. "I want to see young people who are as committed to the cause of Jesus Christ as the young people are to the cause of Islam. I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are over in Pakistan and in Israel and Palestine and all those different places. Because we have, excuse me, but we have the truth."
There appear to be direct quotes of the lady in charge of the camp in
the article.I don't know how anyone would mis-interpret what the woman
said.It is what it is. Seems way beyond the norm to me. Jesus Christ never
asked children to die for him, it's the other way round.
Getting young children to fall on the ground & cry to show their commitment
to Christ is extreme, to say the least.All the talk about fighting & dieing for
for Christ is dangerous & extreme. Where are the Christian ideals of love,
peace ,understanding & forgiveness?
I don't know.. it looks extreme on the movie. But it reminds me of the same church I went to when I was little and I loved every second of it. Yep it's seems to be exactly like my church. Aside from the "war" stuff. I remember people falling on the ground and crying and talking to God. Course I remember it was usually the older people that did it.
Yikes!! :eek:
Thankfully we never were never asked if we would sacrafice our lives at girlscout camp...
If this is the case, then we cannot believe anything anyone says as everyone has a "point of view."Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen
I am terrifed of fundamentalism...whether it be christian, muslim or moon worshipper...
In a related article in this Sunday's paper I read some fundamentalists are now focused on outlawing birth control....(Terry Schiendler...however he spells it...for one...) as the root cause of abortion and most other evils....
Be afraid...very afraid...
Gotta love those crazy fundies.
I went ot Catholic School for 8 years..
"nuff said!
i found it interesting that so many people responded by saying that they would give their lives for jesus because he is their lord and savior.
anyway, sounds like a few of the camps i went to as a child.
I don't think it is at all extreme.
You have to consider the author of that article.. which very much paints it to be extreme with their choice of wording.
I went to a penticostal church for about 4 years... and I can't tell you the number of times i was on the floor literally crying and praying for something i was passionate about. They were praying about abortion... it could have been a pet lover praying over a picture of their terminally ill cat... would it have been so extreme then?????
I get excited hearing about kids so passionate about Jesus!!!
And the lady telling them there is a war... well there is. A war against good and evil..... God and the Devil.
This sounds sick, just what the world needs, more religious extremists.Quote:
"It's no wonder with that kind of intense training in discipling (sic) that those young people are ready to kill themselves for the cause of Islam," Fischer said. "I want to see young people who are as committed to the cause of Jesus Christ as the young people are to the cause of Islam. I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are over in Pakistan and in Israel and Palestine and all those different places. Because we have, excuse me, but we have the truth."
:(
I wonder is she is a member in good standing of Pychos R Us!
And there is the reason why I *personally* steer WELL clear of religion!Quote:
Because we have, excuse me, but we have the truth."
I agree with that completely. Those paragraphs were absolutely disgusting. As a Muslim, I know very well that hardly anyone of my faith sends their kids to any camps that teach kids to kill themselves. PUH-LEASE...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by areias
As to crying? It all depends on what the crying is about. Tears come out from sincere feelings, passions, beliefs. If it is fake crying and wailing, there's a major problem, but if a believer sheds tears while praying to God, it only shows the extent of their faith.
I am a Muslim, and...when I read the Quran, certain verses make me cry. When I pray during the night, I sometimes find myself in tears. It has nothing to do with extremism. It has to do with the beauty and depth of God's words, in that it just grasps your heart. If you believe, then there are no tears more beautiful than those shed because of your faith and sincerity to God. Those tears are uncontrollable. They just come. When you love someone, sometimes, you shed tears because of that love. I cannot count the times I have shed tears over my husband, just out of my love for him, and for no other reason. Likewise, when a person deeply loves God, when they remember Him, the tears come out. It happens to me, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Throwing yourself to the ground and crying loudly doesn't seem very 'real' to me though. Tears that come out of deep faith usually come out when you are alone, praying, feel an individual, strong connection with God, and cry.
What bothers me about this camp is not that they cry for their faith. Its what is written in their article. Seems like a camp that spreads hate against other people. :(
Sara thank you for that. Although I have never heard of the Jesus camp, I believe there is probably more to it than we are reading. The only war I have ever heard of as a Christian is, like you say, the war between good and evil. I would have to know a lot more to judge them. There is an old hymn we sang years ago in church and is probably still sung today - - *Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war, with the cross of Jesus going on before.* It refers to the war against evil and that is all there is to it. I think the story is written to create hype and stir up criticism. Believe me, if it was teaching anything else I wouldn't agree either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara luvs her Tinky
One more thing. I don't think anyone would ever give that benefit of doubt to Muslims when they hear things on the news, portrayed by the author in an extreme way... :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara luvs her Tinky
Isn't that what war is about? Its a matter of perspective. In a war, both sides are fighting 'evil' on their part, and based on their perspective. Why else would they fight if they didn't believe they were fighting evil, or the people on the side of the 'devil'?Quote:
A war against good and evil..... God and the Devil.
PCB...I always look at the news as sort of being slanted toward muslims because I know many and know they are portrayed unfairly. I hate not being able to trusy any news.Quote:
Originally Posted by popcornbird
My point is not that we can never believe what anyone says, because everyone has a point of view.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
My point is that, before forming a strong opinion, one should to get to the facts of the matter, which probably means gathering information from different sources. Yes, that's "work," but it is the responsibility of thinking human beings.
My mother was a journalist who belived that opinion belonged on the Op Ed pages, and nowhere else in a newspaper. A true journalist should never taint the story with their own opinions, should cover, for example, candidates from both parties without you - the reader, being able to tell whether the reporter writing it was a Republican, Democrat, or Independent. She was sad to see the huge increase of "opinion" creeping into news stories, and that was back in the 1980s and 1990s!
A documentary film maker is not what I would call a journalist!Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen
The guy who made the documentary on the evils of fast food (Supersize Me, I think???) had an agenda as well... but I don't believe I need to study the publications of the trans fatty trade group in order to be a thinking human being about the issue...or before forming a strong opinion on the subject!
And why do you assume creep in the report about the documentary?
Camps like that are exactly why I will be teaching my children in my own home about religion, and not some teacher or church or person...
just reading parts of that are wiggin me out.
At least the kids at this camp are NOT being taught to use rifles, blow themselves up, or chop people's heads off. I was raised Catholic and remember being told that if we die for God that we are martyrs and go straight to heaven. This really appealed to me as a 9 year old, but did I have any idea what the priest really meant? NOT! At least they didn't strap bombs on us and send us on suicide missions to blow up atheists.
Extremism is never good, it is a warped version of passion. If people truly wanted to follow in the paths of God-Jesus-Buddha-Mohammed, there would be no violence against anyone.
I thought documentarians were supposed to be, but the industry has obviously changed dramatically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
Of course you don't, because you are a thinking person and have your own experiences with food and maybe even the fast food industry that you will naturally take into account as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
I don't understand your question. Rephrase?Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara luvs her Tinky
i was under the impression that the war against good and evil was over after the crusades, inquisitions, and witch trials had killed off all the non-believers.
its funny that people on the good side always talk about fighting evil when all they are really doing is fighting each other. how often do you see atheists or satanists ( real ones, members of the church of satan are glamor seekers, like people that pretend they are vampires.) blowing up abortion clinics, mass suicides, etc.
the so called evil people are ones who merely do not share your beliefs, yet the ones who do share similar beliefs ( jews, muslims, etc) are often pursecuted anyway, because you have the truth and they don't or whatever.
and for the record, god created everything, which means he created evil, which means that he is evil. god also created man in his image, which tells you alot about his character, or lack therof. teaching children anything other than how to make rational decisions and ask questions before coming to conclusions is similar to the nazi youth camps.
if all of your differing religions are so loving and perfect, why is it that all they seem to do is fight with each other, the theory is sound but the execution is terrible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by signorelli21
2Cr 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
War : to me as a christian is not people fighting people.. just as i said... but against good and evil.... I believe in a spiritual war..
who are you speaking for? I never said evil were the ones who didn't share my beliefs. Anyone who has religious beliefs wether they be christian, muslim, jew, pagan are persecuted.... not just the ones who don't share my beliefs!Quote:
Originally Posted by signorelli21
For the record????? What scripture or anything do you have to prove God created evil? What control did God take over Lucifer's thoughts when he decided he was greater than God... what control does God have over your thoughts and decisions?Quote:
Originally Posted by signorelli21
When God created man in his image man was perfect and without sin! So that says A LOT about God's character.
I'm sorry if you took my comments the wrong way.Quote:
Originally Posted by popcornbird
Not *everyone* would give the benefit of doubt to muslims... but there are some who will. Every religion has their extremest.... and unfortunatly i believe muslims are in the spotlight now because of 9/11.. For some reason people want to hold onto their prejeduces (sp) without searching to find out what a person is really about. Espically the media... and people who write articles to persuade their readers that what they believe is the truth.
again.. and when i was speaking of war... i didn't mean a "physical" war.. but a spiritual war against good and evil... through prayer.. not fighting.
Good Morning America just aired an interview between the woman who runs the camp and Diane Sawyer and Chris Cuomo. There was a man there representing the other side but I forget his name. It was a good interview and if you are interested, and can catch it, I would suggest watching it.
My only comment after watching would be that I understand the woman's concern over the children having to live in this world and dealing with so much these days in the way of getting involved with *evil* things, etc. that can hurt them. What I don't agree with is her method. When I taught my children about God/Jesus I was careful to first explain how much He loved them. Jesus loved them so much that he died for them. Some people are so afraid of God that they are never able to love Him. They look to Him with great fear. That is such a shame. He wants us to love Him as we love our earthly fathers. Of course we have a mix of love and respect for our earthly fathers and that is why God likens Himself to our father.
I have a five year old grandson. He is learning about Jesus, and his love for Jesus is child-like as it should be. Would I want to see him crying and crying over his sin? NOT AT THE AGE OF FIVE! I am against anything that takes a child into adulthood without ever being able to be a child. When he asks honest questions about God/Jesus it is the sweetest most pure thing you'd ever want to hear.
For an adult it is completely different. We have lived long enough to accumulate some sins unfortunately. :) In some cases the things people have done cause them great sadness, and crying for repentance is absolutely normal. I was not able to watch The Passion of the Christ without crying. I am not a fanatic but just someone who realizes the depth of God's love and will eternally be grateful.
As in so many things, presentation is everything. I personally believe in another approach but we live in a world with as many different approaches to things as there are people. Would I send my child to Jesus Camp? No. Do I teach them to avoid evil and be good? Yes. We all want the same result.
Exactly! I also believe in the war between good and evil, but not a physical war. God created man in His image, giving us free will.....it was Adam and Eve who chose to commit the original sin. Man commits sin, not God.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara luvs her Tinky
Totally agree. I do some children's ministries work in my church, and I so love seeing kids get passionate about Christ. But her methods concern me. When the kids I work with get passionate, they are usually excited about God's love and what He has done for us. Their faces light up, they pray, and tears are sometimes shed. But this camp seems extreme to me, at least some of the methods. Although, I agree with what some others have said in this thread, I think I would need to see more to really be able to form an opinion. I think I'd be interested in seeing the whole documentary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam
I think this might be the interview you were talking about --Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam:
Good Morning America just aired an interview between the woman who runs the camp and Diane Sawyer and Chris Cuomo. There was a man there representing the other side but I forget his name. It was a good interview and if you are interested, and can catch it, I would suggest watching it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBWG4U1ul20 -- I haven't had time to watch it yet tho, but will on my lunch break. :)
You mean YOU never had to pledge your life to Lord and Lady Baden Powell? ... and here all I got in exchange for my life long commitement was some of that orange drink ;) (yep, way too many years with the Girl Guides) :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Pembroke_Corgi:
Yikes!! :eek:
Thankfully we never were never asked if we would sacrafice our lives at girlscout camp...
Blue Frog, thanks for the link. I've never seen the interview before.Think
I'll check it out now.
Please don't leave out Juliette Gordon Lowe....one of my childhood heroines! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Frog