Bush vetoes embryonic stem-cell bill

The Senate voted 63-37 yesterday, four votes short of the two-thirds majority that would have been needed to override a possible veto.

I don't think Bush made the right decision to veto the Senate's decision for Federal funding of Stem Cell research.

What is your view on this decision.

I may be biased because I had a relative with Parkingsons (grandmother - passed on 10 yrs ago) but I do think that so many people could benefit from this kind of research.

Tests on lab rats have concluded that a treated paralised rat can now crawl. Immagine what it could do for people.

I am all for stem cell research! My grandfather who passed away three years ago had parkinsons. It's heartbreaking to watch someone try to speak, walk and just plain sit still when they have parkinsons. :(

The bill does not ban stem cell research, it just keeps in place the limits on federally provided funding. The research will continue as it has, with federal funding for some programs, and private funding for others.

My Dad had Parkinson's and I know how horrible it is. I really don't know where I stand on this. I know I wouldn't want someone else to die to save myself and isn't that what happens to embryos whose stem cells they use? Who should decide who has the right to live. Whose life is more important than another? :confused:

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Originally Posted by momoffuzzyfaces

My Dad had Parkinson's and I know how horrible it is. I really don't know where I stand on this. I know I wouldn't want someone else to die to save myself and isn't that what happens to embryos whose stem cells they use? Who should decide who has the right to live. Whose life is more important than another? :confused:

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A 3 day old embryo is not a person IMO.
I may be wrong and will go to Hell for it but I think the benefits outwiegh the moral issue.

I understand that embryos not used for IVF are not kept indefinitely. This means that they are destroyed! Why not make this sacrifice if this is indeed "life", meaningful? It would be appropriate to get the consent of the donors, of course.

LH, from what I understand, most of the existing cell lines are corrupted by foreign DNA from animal "feeder" cells, so would not be safe to use therapeutically because of incompatibility.

One very attractive source of potential stem cells is cord blood. There should be absolutely no controversy attached to that.

There is also evidence that stem cells may be harvested from adult tissue, and grown.

I'm surprised that plants aren't studied for this, to figure out what makes a leaf grow roots when you put it in water. That sounds like nothing more than pluripotent stem cells (cells that can turn into anything.)

I just can't get past the fact we were all embroys once upon a time.

I Have heard the same studies as you Smokey.Also they just throw away the cords after the birth process so why not use them.
Beeniesmom, I do disagree it is the start of a baby. Whould you feel the same if it were kitten or pup "embros"? Not trying to start a fight just wondering . I know some folks here say no to aborting pets but yes to humans . I can't ever figure that thinking out. Some one what to try to explain it to me.

I think stem cell research could provide a lot of valuable research! It's really too bad we have such an ignoramus for a president. Every medical procedure needed to be tested on SOME living thing. I'm sure billions of animals have died in the quest for a better way to perform heart surgery. What is it about the word "embryo" that makes people think it is more cruel? In my opinion, it is just a collection of cells, not a conscious life form and by banning funding the president is just putting our development as a country further and further behind other developed nations.

It makes me so mad that people can see it as "murder" or as a moral issue because it's just an embryo, at that stage, I do not see is as a human. It has the potential to grow but so do lots of things. I'd feel the same if it were a dog or cat or cow. Sometimes I think whoever invented this religion had a good idea to keep people under control but it's gone too far!

I think Bush is a narrow minded @$$hole. If the women who choose abortion have no problem with using their embryos, since they're being "discarded" anyway, why not use them wisely. Stem cell research is SOOO important. As far as the umbilical cord, it also gets discarded, so who is it hurting??

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Originally Posted by Corinna

Beeniesmom, I do disagree it is the start of a baby. Would you feel the same if it were kitten or pup "embros"? Not trying to start a fight just wondering . I know some folks here say no to aborting pets but yes to humans . I can't ever figure that thinking out. Some one what to try to explain it to me.

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I would feel the same if it were an animal.

I once actually started a thread on the subject: whether to abort or not but I can't find it now.

The funny thing is that I don't think this is a political issue... Or maybe it is a political issue.... less money for research means more money for the war.

It's just a matter of personal opinion. I understand that The President is a God fearing person and doesn't want to expand this kind of research. Maybe he is afraid as other people because it is a new kind of research.

Why is it legal to use birth control if, for catholics, it is immoral to do so?
PS: this is coming from a God fearing Roman Catholic.

I can't speak to the use of birth control for catholics since I am not one. But that stops a pregnancy from happening,not stopping one that has started. I am glad to hear you are consistant in your beleaf in pets and humans. I still am wondering about those who find a difference.
Moosmom , while it is well known here you don't like President Bush be glad you live in a country where you can express that opinion.
I agree with the use of cord blood for the stem cells and the use of the purposely aborted embryos (don't agree with abortion) I don't agree with creating them just for sience as I also don't agree with many of the invetro programs. I have seen so many children that need homes to be adopted in.
What we need is inprovement in our adoption programs.
While i will benifit from the research I don't want to from the purposeful killing of another human or animal. The computer technology has become so good we really don't need a lot of actual cells until needed to prove the models made in the labs. Then the sources listed above could be used.
This also would save our tax dollars on duplicate sources doing the same research wasting time and money. (whole nother topic which I could yak on about for days)
I do hope this topic stays where we can have a civil disscusstion , they has been some new break throughs I haven't seen , I sure , as I have been busy and not kept up as I want to on this subject.

Having lost my Dad to Parkinsons last year any research to eradicate this vile, vicious, evil disease has to be good

An Embryo is just a mass of cells. Honestly, we are all just masses of cells. So there is some skin and bones and a few organs. That makes our life more important? You know those Embryo's turn into the future of this country (when allowed to go full term).

If you were pregnant and it was an Embryo at this point and science said OK we need that Embryo because we need to run some more experiments, would you just say OK?

Also, I think we can do without religion bashing. I am a Christian and I find it hurtful that someone thinks my beliefs are just based on someone trying to push me around just because it isn't YOUR belief.

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Originally Posted by sparks19

If you were pregnant and it was an Embryo at this point and science said OK we need that Embryo because we need to run some more experiments, would you just say OK?

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I wasn't going to say anything but this comment takes the bill completely out of context and represents a complete misunderstanding of this issue in my opinion.

The scientists want to use cells from embryos already aborted OR extra embryos from IV procedures. These are unwanted embryos as it is, so why not use them to bring some good to the world. They are not going to be brought to term anyway.

No one has said anything about forcing/paying women to have abortions in the name of science. Such an idea is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion and I highly doubt it would be tolerated in America. But that is not the topic of this bill.

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Originally Posted by sparks19

If you were pregnant and it was an Embryo at this point and science said OK we need that Embryo because we need to run some more experiments, would you just say OK?

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I think that it would be only for women getting abortions. Am I wrong?

EDIT: MAresche you beat me to the question.

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Originally Posted by beeniesmom

I think that it would be only for women getting abortions. Am I wrong?

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No you are NOT wrong. If the subject of the bill was forced abortions it NEVER would have made it through the House or Senate.

You know what bugs me the most about this? THIS, is the first thing he vetos. Please...

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Originally Posted by Maresche

I wasn't going to say anything but this comment takes the bill completely out of context and represents a complete misunderstanding of this issue in my opinion.

The scientists want to use cells from embryos already aborted OR extra embryos from IV procedures. These are unwanted embryos as it is, so why not use them to bring some good to the world. They are not going to be brought to term anyway.

No one has said anything about forcing/paying women to have abortions in the name of science. Such an idea is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion and I highly doubt it would be tolerated in America. But that is not the topic of this bill.

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I agree. My point was not that they are just asking random women to give it up. But many people say well it's just a mass of cells, but if that mass of cells were yours would you feel differently?

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Originally Posted by sparks19

I agree. My point was not that they are just asking random women to give it up. But many people say well it's just a mass of cells, but if that mass of cells were yours would you feel differently?

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No, because if I chose to give my "mass of cells" up, it meant that I didn't want them in the first place. At least it would go towards some good.

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Originally Posted by sparks19

I agree. My point was not that they are just asking random women to give it up. But many people say well it's just a mass of cells, but if that mass of cells were yours would you feel differently?

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I still don't the point of this statement in relation to the bill at discussion.

Of course, my thoughts would differ if the embryo asked to be given up is mine. But that isn't happening here. No one is giving up wanted embryos/masses of cells. No one wants them and they are going to be disposed of in an incerinator anyway. Why not make some use of them so they don't go to waste?

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Originally Posted by beeniesmom

No, because if I chose to give my "mass of cells" up, it meant that I didn't want them in the first place. At least it would go towards some good.

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You hit the nail on the head!

Not everyone makes a CHOICE to lose their Embryos. Remember that.

Sorry I brought this a little close to home. I must depart from this thread.

I apologize if this issue hits you close to home. I never meant to make any of this personal.

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Originally Posted by Maresche

I apologize if this issue hits you close to home. I never meant to make any of this personal.

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I have to apologize. You didn't make it personal. i did and that was foolish of me to do.

Let me clarify my position. I don't advocate the creation of embryos (how dow you spell that anyway?) just to make stem cells. But, when people do IVF, extras are made in the process. The fate of these "extras" is to be destroyed. I would much prefer that the option be provided to the parents of the extra embryos to choose to have them used for scientific research, or not.

The possibility of being able to do true regenerative medicine boggles the mind.

Smokey the Elder,

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I would much prefer that the option be provided to the parents of the extra embryos to choose to have them used for scientific research, or not

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I agree with you 100%. I believe that they at least give the parents the option of destroying them or donating them. If it were ME, I'd donate them. If it can bring someone a medical miracle, they by all means!! But that's me. Everyone else has their own opinion and I respect that.

I also believe (while I'm on my soapbox) that Bush is vetoing with his religious beliefs and not with his common sense. But again, it's my opinion.