oops, noticed that the second it loaded, edit: http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/...hisperer_x.htm
I wish this would get a lot more publicity.
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oops, noticed that the second it loaded, edit: http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/...hisperer_x.htm
I wish this would get a lot more publicity.
That link is for an advertisement???
Here's the correct link:
http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/...hisperer_x.htm
poor doggie
The article doesn't mention what caused the bruises on his legs? :confused:
I wonder what the reasoning is on how putting a dog on a treadmill can help with people anxiety?
Poor doggie, though.
Well I choose to take it with a grain of salt until the entire truth comes out about what happened. Not to mention, I don't beleive the person had 25,000 dollars in vet bills from that incident. It is possible, but very unlikely, as even some of the worst cases of injury or harm haven't cost people that much money in vet bills, and that includes major surgeries. Things like chemotherapy, etc etc may cost that much over time, but not one incident such as this. I truly have a hard time beleiving they spent that much in vet bills, without more poof of it, and until that time I'm not buying one side or the other. Not to mention it was a worker, no Cesar himself, who is accused of the crime, and it is possible he did something wrong, but that doesn't mean Cesar endorsed it, we just don't know the facts yet. People shouldn't instantly beleive what the media says just because it's in print. More facts are needed to make an accurate assessment.
Most who dislike his methods seem not to realize that he often deals with the worst of the worst dogs, those who would be put down if not given another chance. While I have seen very few instances of him using stronger methods than I would prefer, I also see him dealing, at those times, with very aggressive dogs. I choose to wait and see, rather than jump up and down saying he's wrong, I also beleive he HAS helped a lot of people with their dogs.
as someone on another board put it, he exersize dogs into submission. apperntly in an interview he said that dogs are not intelligent, so he does not give much credit to a dogs brain, which means any and all problems he figers he will fix by running them down. I heard one where he said when a dogs tail is up they are happy, so he tied a leash to a dogs tail and tied its tail up! :eek: wala! instant happy dog! :o I personally saw what where he was essentally hanging a pug nosed dog, he made a point of turning the leash into a choker, then held the leash so high and tight the dogs front feet were just off the ground, he then told the owner to take this dog for at least an hour walk a day while holding the leash this way.
i saw this a couple times last week. poor dog. :(
HHHHHHHMMMMMMMM I'm gonna do more research on him and see what this is all about.
:confused: who is Cesar Milan? I've only heard of it on PT.. I mean like what is the dog whisperer?
Ceaser Milan is a dog trainer and has a show on National Geographic called The Dog Whisperer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy4paws
Some people like him others don't. PT is pretty divided on him. You should watch his show so you can have your own opinion on it. It comes on every friday @ 8 on National Geographic Channel. He also has a book out that is called Cesar's Way. Read part of it it is pretty good. :)
He helps people with training problems and issues with their dogs, such as aggression, leash pulling, etc. Many feels his methods are too harsh, but I have only seen very few times where I felt this was so, and at the same time he deals with dogs that people have been told to put down, etc. for being too aggressive. Sometimes he helps dogs that nobody else can help. He shows how much dog behavioral problems are a result of the owners behavior towards the dog, which I beleive to be true. Most all training or behavioral problems can be traced directly back to how the owners deal with their dogs. He shows them how to stop those behaviors that they are doing, shows how it confuses or upsets the dog, and many times has helped people with very aggressive dogs and other problems. Yes the shows are edited for time, no way he could show everything that possibly happens in a half hour or hour show, but the gist of it is people cause their dog's behavioral problems, and he helps them to learn how to change that. There have been instances where he did things I would not, but at the same time I am not working with a dog who wants to kill me so I leve that to his discretion since I don't have all the facts about each particular case. I have never seen him be outright abusive and he genuinely seems to care about the dogs and wants to help them. That is my point of veiw. I have not seen every episode, so I can only comment on what I have seen.
I am a Cesar supporter. Haven't we all said a tired dog is a good dog? I feel that's what he's doing when he walks them on the tread mill.
And as for the dog who had his tail held up by the leash...did you see that episode? I did and at no time was he saying "wala! instant happy dog!"
But to each his/ her own. Everyone has different methods of training.
I don't want to take away from what this thread is about, but I needed to put my 2 cents in.
So that said, until I see further proof that it was Cesar's fault I choose not to believe it.
I am SO HAPPY that this man was finally found out. I can only hope to spread the word to prevent others from abusing and ruining their dogs by trying to follow his example. It is sad that the abuse and mistreatment of a dog had to be the thing to "show the true side" of Ceasar,.. but at least people will be more aware now.
And, the National Geographic channel is now supposedly signing a contract with a MUCH better, and knowledge trainer by the name of Ken Ramirez, an animal trainer to take this spot on their programming next year when Millan's contract is up. They can't have the one with the other at the same time, according to contract. Ramirez trains many animals, exotic animals, sea mammals as well as dogs using operant conditioning methods and has been training for 30 some years.
I saw that episode too Anna, and I agree with you, and he also did not "tie the dog's tail up". He held it up but it was gentle and not harmful at all. I thought it was a good idea as it really did see to help that particular dog to a certain extent. I also choose not to beleive in his guilt unless I see proof to the contrary.
The Cesar bashing makes me so angry! I'm a big Cesar Milan fan.
I feel like I can't put anything into words right now and Anna and Vela have said pretty much how I feel also, so I will just leave it at that.
I also wanted to mention that Cesar is going to be on Oprah. I can't remember what day though. He is going to be working with Nate's dog(s). He has been on before and worked with Oprah and her cockers.
I think we should wait until the case is tried, and not assume guilt or innocence until we know all the evidence. The DVDs I have watched show him as a very caring person, and the dogs seem to do well with him. He tresses over and over that the people are the ones that need training, and never did his methods seem abusive to me, the way he puts the leash on dogs is exactly how they do it for dog shows, which I used to wonder about, until he explained that gives you more control, and makes the dog keep it's head up as well. I will wait until the case has been tried and the evidence heard, I will not believe someone is guilty just because they got sued.
Poor dog! :( Cesar Milan certianly deserves this! :mad:
Very well said, Karen. Thanks for putting that into words for me;).
I definately agree with Karen. :)
I agree Karen. Also it has always been stated that a worker at his facility did this, not Cesar himself. While Cesar would still be legally responsible it does not mean that he endorsed such behavior, if indeed it happened the way the prosecutor is describing.
I have seen many of the shows. Even when dealing with "red zone" cases where a dog is wanting to kill another dog or even a human, he has never behaved with angry aggression or cruelty, but calm assertiveness. I have no problem if someone wants to disagree with his philosophy or his methods but to exaggerate and skew things and make him out to be some sort of malicious evil-doer is just going too far. I seriously doubt a man who has devoted his life to dogs and saving dogs from death row and helping people keep dogs they may have otherwise had to give up as some kind of an uncaring monster who gets his kicks from tormenting dogs.
OMG! Do you think that is true? :eek: :mad:
There is no *one way* to train a dog. How you train your dog may not be how I train my dog and visa versa. That doesn't mean either way is wrong, it's just different. I, personally am a big Ceasar fan. Like what K-9soul said, when he's working with his "red zone" cases, I would have lost my cool, but Caesar doesn't, which is why I said I would like to know more about the alleged injuries to the dog.
I don't need to see how this case turns out to know about the horrible methods this man applies to "help" dogs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen
"Flooding" to try and make a dog overcome its fears is NEVER a good a idea, is DANGEROUS, and can mentally DAMAGE a dog.
This man deems himself a 'Dog Whisperer', a Dog Psycologist,.. yet he has never taken any college courses to actully learn behavioral psychology.
I am only sad that I do not have the National Geographic channel. I am looking forward to the new training series with Ken Ramirez. He sounds like a phenomenal trainer, and a GOOD example to learn from. :D
Flooding CAN be an effective training tool but it must be done properly and by a well seasoned trainer. If you flood a dog that has a deep fear of certain things due to prior trauma, chances are you'll traumative the dog more. However, if your dog is scared of loud music, let's say, and you slowly flood the dog with loud music, s/he can learn to immunize itself from the music. Hence, the dog is desensitized.
Like the others have mentioned, there is no ONE WAY to train and dog and it is only in your opinion that flooding is detrimental to a dog's mental health. I personally think it could be beneficial in certain cases. Needless to say, there will always be controversy within the world of dog training and not everyone is going to go for "treats-praise-lovey-dovey-100% PR-kissies" training. That's certainly not how Schutzhund dogs are trained, but we can't blame them either.
I think training is just like dog food: Use what works for you!
I agree. I think that is what they were trying to do but the EMPLOYEES took it way overboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by anna_66
You should never, never put a dog on a treadmill with a choke collar anyway. A harness is best. And they should always be under supervision. I don't care who hooked the dog up to the treadmill but obviously they shouldn't have been working with dogs, and there probably was more than one person at this "training" facility who stood by while the dog was being hooked up or exercising.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anna_66
Right on Anna. :D This accident happened when a trainer helper was
exersizing the dog on the treadmill to burn of the dog's nervous energy.The
same effect as talking the dog on a mile long walk/run.. I have never heard
any reputable trainer fault his methods.He understands, loves and respects
all dogs. Most human problems with animals happen because people have'nt
got a clue how dogs think.
Somehow I have a hard time believing the allegations as presented in the article. Until the court case is resolved it is impossible to tell what the truth is, the article only states one side of the case.
As far as the title of the thread goes, it was only a matter of time before someone sued him for something. After all, you want bucks? Get a lawyer and sue someone rich for something. (Not a comment on the legal profession in general)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
The method used requires a trainer/helper has to stay with the dog
(any dog) while on the treadmill.The employee did not follow procedure.
That's what the case is about.
Yes but you really don't KNOW that's what happened, so how can you base a judgement without kowing all of the facts?Quote:
Originally Posted by IRescue452
I'm not sure I understand some of you people. Sure a tired dog is a good dog, but when is it ok to chain a dog to a treadmill and force them to run until you are physically exhausted? How is this a training method? The dog can't do anything because it is exhausted: therefore it is trained? There are better ways to get rid of nervous energy. If you guys are thinking it was ok to chain it to a treadmill until it was "tired and good" then obviously it is ok to chain it to the back of a pickup truck and have it run until it behaves. When a dog needs some quick exercise before a session you want them a little tired, not dead on their feet, so you supervise and watch for when the dog shows signs of strain or of being tired. And the reason I say it was only a matter of time is not because he got sued, but because people are finding out his training methods are not the best.
I don't understand why you are taking one side of the story, printed in the paper, and taking it as gospel truth. You have no idea if it is true or not. The case hasn't gone to trial to hear both sides. It may not have happened like it was "alleged" at all. Nobody has all the facts in this case, so you are basing your judgement on the accusations printed in the paper about one side of the story. There are ALWAYS two sides, and as of right now, nobody except those involved know exactly what happened to that dog. I am not saying it did or did not happen like they claim, I don't know and neither do you. So making a snap judgement like that is unfair to the side not heard from.
And comparing working a dog on a treadmill to tying it to the back of a truck is just silly.
There is always a person with the dog on the treadmill in his videos, someone there either walking with, or watching the dog carefully. That is far different than running a dog behind a truck where you cannot see it, where it ios easy for you to accellerate beyond the dog's running capability, and when you cannot judge how tired it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by IRescue452
If the employee wasn't watching over the dog, the employee screwed up. But I still maintain that we do not know all the facts of the case, and nopthing I have seen on the videos seems at all abusive. Mr. Millan obviously loves dogs - I have seen him get bitten - puncture wound, serious stuff, drew blood - and he did NOT react at all - because he didn't want to ruin the training session and let the dog think biting was going to get the dog what it wanted. THAT takes serious effort and commitment.