I thought this was really interesting, and wanted to get some feed back on it.
http://www.vas-awareness.org/WSJAreA...tsOverkill.pdf
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I thought this was really interesting, and wanted to get some feed back on it.
http://www.vas-awareness.org/WSJAreA...tsOverkill.pdf
Vaccines are harmful even if given once. Two of my dogs have suffered from them.
I am working on an "article" on this, and it will be posted here. Not sure when, but should be within the next few weeks. It's just going to share my dogs' stories and the treatment they're recieving and some info on over-vaccination.
Here are some more links:
- Is Your Pet Dying from Over-Vaccination Due to Vet Economics? (scroll down some for the article)
- Vaccines - Are They Safe for Your Dog?
- Vaccinations for Dogs and Cats: Too Many, Too Often?
- Canine Vaccination Concerns
- Immunisation
- Take the Titer Test
- Vaccinations for the New Puppy
- Rabies Scam
- Think About This
- Vaccine Reactions
- What About Vaccines?
Well ALL vaccines have the potential to be "harmful". Human vaccines, pet vaccines, all vaccines are is they are injecting a weakened strain of whatever virus into your system so your body can build up antibodies against the virus or whatever so if you DO come in contact with it again you will have a strenghtened immunity against it. BUT sometimes it backfires, and eventhough its a weakened strain, you can become infected by it and get sick. So that is always a risk you take, whether it be you, your children, or your pets.
My dog almost died from parvo all because the vaccine weakened her immune system and left her vulnerable to the parvo in the environment (the very thing the vet said it would prevent).
I do parvo and distemper seperatly and that's it. One shot for each, nothing more. Visa is titred if she needs proof of vaccination for anything, and the vet has someone that forages rabies vaccine certifications if we ever need to cross the border.
Jordan, I am curious why you even vaccinate at all, especially since Visa almost died from it. Do you do it at 16 weeks when the natural immunity wears off?
My dogs are never getting vaccinated again, and no future dogs or puppies will be vaccinated.
Also, you must have a cool vet! I wish I could find one that didn't want to shoot my dog up any chance they got.
So you think rabies shots are unnecessary? I got Charlie 3 year shots and Jamie one year.. but that's pretty much the only vaccinations they've had or that I do routinely.
Sarah, what do you do when you have to bring them somewhere and you have to show proof of vaccinations?? Like, for example, grooming or dog events, etc.
Rabies shots are very, very unneccessary except to abide by the law, which I have found a way to get around. Luka is suffering from one she got in March and there is no cure.
Also, three year and one year are the same. They are the same shot marketed with a different label to abide by state laws.
I have titers done to proove immunity so that we can attend obedience classes. For Rabies - I have a way to get around it that I don't want to say publicly, but could PM to you if you're curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessika
Hm, I have never heard of a titre before. Yeah, please pm me, I would love to discuss this and learn more!Quote:
Originally Posted by .sarah
I don't do the parvo and distemper when the dogs are adults. :) Only once when they are puppies (at 15 weeks if I am able to -- Visa's breeder and my friend I am getting a sheltie pup from both do their shots while the puppies are still very young so they can get them done before they go to their new homes, but I am going to talk to them and tell them that I want to do it myself at 15 weeks), and no more for the rest of their lives. Parvo and distemper are very very rare around here, the only times they ever happen are from vaccine reactions, but I feel that since the dogs will be going to shows and trials for their entire lives, and coming to work with me all the time, one shot for each disease won't hurt, as long as it's only done once and never again. After that I do titres and nothing else.
Yeah, my vet is awesome. :) She is both holistic and conventional but likes things done the holistic way if possilbe. She uses her judgement well though. When Visa and her littermates got parvo, there was no way she would treat them holistically. She absolutely refused. I trust her and her judgement. This is her site. :)
This is very, very bad and I probably shouldn't even be saying this but I photoshop old certificates when I need "proof" of vaccination. They do get rabies vaccines though because it's required by law... but since it's every 3 years and the only vaccine they receive, I'm quite fine with it.
LOL that's awesome.
Rabies is the worst, it effects the nervous system. It can cause fear, aggression, and anxiety. Because of the shot Luka is afraid of pretty much everything now, even our backyard. I think it caused Mandy's aggression too, since she used to be wonderful with dogs, but we can't remember enough to make a proper diagnosis.Quote:
Originally Posted by binka_nugget
is it bad to get their vaccinations at the vet?
Oh wow.. I don't think I could deal with a more aggressive Kaedyn or fearful Kai. :eek: Yikes.. maybe I'll look into doing what Jordan does.Quote:
Originally Posted by .sarah
I do think that rabies shots ARE neccessary. I know my aunt's jrt/chihuahua mix threw up after getting her first shots, but that's normal right? :confused: I also think it keeps their immune system healthy by being vaccined. jmho!
I may be on the outer with my opinion but i am a firm advocate of vaccinating, my children and my pets, yes there are indeed risks and of course i do worry about them, but i believe the risk of getting these outweigh the risks of vaccination,there are some unlucky ones, humans and animals as have been told here, and i guess if that happened to me i might well change my mind.
We donot have rabies vaccine here in NZ, so that is a plus, not needed, let us hope it stays that way, and i vaccinate my cats every two years for cat flue etc, it has only recently been reduced to two yearly , used to be once a year.
In an ideal world if everyone vaccinated we would beable to irradicate nearly all these diseases,well that is my personal belief anyhow.
I disagree with this. When Visa was a puppy, there was an older litter being raised with them. After their older litter recieved vaccines, one of the puppies developed parvovirus (the disease he was being vaccinated against GAVE it to him). After days of living with the other litter, Visa and her littermates were perfectly fine. The vet vaccinated the litter, the vaccines weakened the immune systems, and all of the puppies developed parvo. Some of these puppies died. If it weren't for the vaccines, none of these puppies would have developed parvo in the first place. Vaccinosis is not rare at all -- I hear about it all the time. When you are vaccinating, you are giving a part of the diseas e to the animal, therefore it is impossible to eradicate all diseases by vaccinations alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by carole
Actually, it is possible. Smallpox and polio ring a bell?
People are NOT the same thing --- Polio and smallpox vaccines were not given to every single person for dozens of years annually or every few years. Dogs can have ten generation pedigrees where every single dog in that pedigree recieved the exact same vaccinations. Not only does this mean that the dog is breeding a weaker immune system into it's line, but that dog is carrying on a higher chance of vaccine sensitivities. Smallpox was not something that was vaccinated into the entire world population for years and years and years. Vaccinosis is extremely rare in people compared to dogs because people are not vaccinated as often and not with nearly as dangerous protocols. People are not able to start breeding at a young age and create litters that pass on the same genetic predispositions every year. Smallpox and polio compared to parvo virus is not the same thing at all. Parvo is one of the more common vaccinosis reactions, it has been known to last on sterilized surfaces for up to 7 years, etc. There is no way that every canine and feline disease could be wiped out as easily as polio and smallpox were.
The original purpose of Rabies vaccines and the laws requiring rabies vaccine was not to protect the dogs, it was to protect the human population from getting the disease through dogs. Given the fact that rabies is a fairly common disease in wild animals in North America, not vaccinating is foolish.
If a reliable test for immune levels was developed and allowed by law, I could see not vaccinating every three years. Until that happens, however, I'll follow the law.
If the rabies vaccine was created to protect humans, why don't the humans get the vaccines? Because there is a strong risk of problems, so instead we give them to our pets. I don't understand why we give them to dogs anyways -- I mean, if someone is stupid enough to not go to the doctor after being bit by a rabid dog...It takes 3-12 weeks for rabies symptoms to start. By then, it would be obvious that the animal has rabies. Of course if it is a stray dog,there should be enough suspicion of a dog randomly attacking somone that they would go to the dotocr. The only animal that doesn't give a very noticable bite is a bat, so that is the only time I can see someone not going to their doctor. The problem is not rabies, it's people's common sense.
There IS a legal reliable test for antibody levels that can be used in most areas--- it's called a titer. My dog gets it annually. Rabies vaccinations are not required by law where I live, as rabies is very rare. The very first rabid skunk in BC was found two years ago.
Rabies is the only one I get for my pets one becouse of the law, and we live in an area with proven rabied bats.
I got my kids their first 2 vaccines and both got sick , and then I started reading about them . I stopped getting them , too many factors show that too many other things are happening to the kids getting them. ( hyper activity, autism, and immume defistionsys(sp) ) Son got hyper active after his two. Plus the pertusus in the whooping caugh one each one spiked a 1o4 temop in 20 mintues( so did I as a kid)
I stopped getting vaccines after getting sick too. After my second HepB shot I was sick with flu-like symptoms for two weeks and developed a phobia of anything sharp. Now whenever I need my blood tested I have an absolute panic attack. My dad developed both the hyperactive and innattentive subtypes of ADHD after getting his first shots, so he never had any shots for the rest of his life. My stepmom always laughs because she got all of her vaccinations and still got mumps, my dad didn't get any vaccinations and barely gets a cold.
I've also been worried about the annual vaccines. Nebo has received all of them each year and is due this July (annual, next year rabies) but I don't think I'm going to do the annuals. I've asked about the titer tests but I haven't yet found a vet that does that, I will keep looking. Are any of the diseases the annual vaccines are made to prevent life threatening in a healthy adult dog (besides rabies)? I know parvo can be life threatening but I thought it was a lot more serious in puppies.
I do think he'll still get a rabies vaccine though, because I'm paranoid. I know that if by chance he bit anyone if I couldn't provide proof of a current rabies vaccination he'd have to be quarantined for at least 10 days. When I was bit by a cat at work and it was not current the cat had to be (by law) quarantined, or kill the cat to test it (I'm not sure if I, being the one bit, actually could choose to have that happen? I didn't and wouldn't of course). I didn't want to get the rabies shots, so I rather just hoped I didn't get a phone call saying the cat showed symptoms of rabies, bad idea I know. :o I don't think rabies is *that* common around here but I do go camping often where there's lots of wild animals........like I said, I'm paranoid. :o
*edited to add: I got a flu shot once and became extremely ill from it and I have sworn to never get one again!
Hmmm. I think I am divided on this issue. Where I live, I am pretty sure there are things that are really common besides heartworm (which, as we all know, is not taken care of by vaccination but rather a topical or pill.). I would just be worried about my fur babies coming in contact with any diseases. Hmm. I shall do some more research.
So far, (even though this doesn't apply, exactly) Soni has been vaccinated against rabies, feline leukemia, and fvrcpc. I will do the same for Isis because not only is it required by law but I have to do it in order for her to be spayed (some even require a bordatella vacc.).
edit: As far as human vaccinations go, I have had a polio vaccination, and have started the hep b several times but never finished, amongst others and have never had a problem with them myself. Then again, I've always been pretty darn healthy minus the ear infections when I was way younger and especially concerning something else.
http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/eek.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by .sarah
I'm pretty sure all 50 of the US States, or in the case of Ohio - all the COUNTIES,
require Rabies Vaccinations; usually for dogs, cats, and ferrets.
The big rub comes if your dog is accused of *biting* a Human or another Pet -
You are then required to Prove your dog has a current Rabies Certificate -
which in Ohio must be signed by a licensed VET.
Without proof of the Rabies Vaccination - the law allows the Health Department to
order the biting dog quarantined and if suspected of being rabid, euthanised for testing for rabies.
Falsifying a Rabies Certificate - is probably a criminal act - I'd hate to accused
of doing that.
As for the Rabies Vaccination *CAUSING* "fear, aggression, and anxiety"
in a vaccinated dog - NEVER heard of that being a problem.
Long & Short of it - YOU can't be certain that your dog will "never" come in
contact with a RABID wild animal - thereby running the risk of being infected with Rebies.
Not worth the risk to me - even Boots, da INSIDE Kat, gets his Rabies Shot
every three years!
/s/ Phred
On my vet's website (I posted th link in my second post) she talks about rabies vaccines causing behavioural problems, she has experienced it herself firsthand. Cali has also gone through it with her dog, Happy -- I'm sure she'll pipe in eventually. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder & Smoke
Rabies vaccines are given to dogs by law because the easiest way to control a disease is to control the disease vector. For humans, the most common vector for rabies was dogs. Hence, rabies vaccines for dogs.
It is different here in Florida, a vet does not have to give the vaccine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder & Smoke
Me too, but what are the chances? I never leave my dogs alone with strangers, so what is the chances of them biting? I'm really not worried.Quote:
Falsifying a Rabies Certificate - is probably a criminal act - I'd hate to accused of doing that.
Read the links I provided. It can happen and it happens all the time. People just brush it off as "just another fearful dog" because it has become "normal". It's NOT normal for a dog to be afraid of everything, especially when it's never been abused. It has happened severly to one of my dogs, and Mandy could have also been affected but it was so long ago that we can't prove it. Nova was affected by one of the other vaccines.Quote:
As for the Rabies Vaccination *CAUSING* "fear, aggression, and anxiety" in a vaccinated dog - NEVER heard of that being a problem.
There aren't very many rabid animals in comparison to the non-rabid animals. Yes, it is possible. But having had one, possibly two, of my dogs been affected by the vaccine, I'll take my chances.Quote:
Long & Short of it - YOU can't be certain that your dog will "never" come in contact with a RABID wild animal - thereby running the risk of being infected with Rebies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carole
I am sorry but I do disagree with you on this topic. I think vaccinations are one of the main killers of babies. And there is a great deal of proof out there if people would just look into it. Here is a list of just fillers for your average vaccination.
Vaccine Fillers and Ingredients
In addition to the viral and bacterial RNA or DNA that is part of the vaccines, here are the fillers:
aluminum hydroxide
aluminum phosphate
ammonium sulfate
amphotericin B
animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,
dog kidney, monkey kidney,
chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg
calf (bovine) serum
betapropiolactone
fetal bovine serum
formaldehyde
formalin
gelatin
glycerol
***human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)****
hydrolized gelatin
monosodium glutamate (MSG)
neomycin
neomycin sulfate
phenol red indicator
phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)
potassium diphosphate
potassium monophosphate
polymyxin B
polysorbate 20
polysorbate 80
porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein
residual MRC5 proteins
sorbitol
sucrose
thimerosal (mercury)
tri(n)butylphosphate,
VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells
washed sheep red blood cells
Do you want this in your baby...
There not eradicated, just cut down... Plus at the time I don't think the vaccination had all this other junk in it that is in our vaccinations now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
I think we all can have our own views on this with out getting at each other’s throats. We are not animals, lets not act like them. This topic was brought up to help others see there is something wrong with just letting others do our thinking for us. I think it has helped us talk about it. That is great, lets keep doing that. It helps out so many people. But please don't just take one or two persons idea of right or wrong. Look into it for yourself. Think for yourself. Do research. Then when you have it all sitting in front of you, make an educated choice as to right or wrong. Your animal is going to love you either way, but it is important for YOU to make that educated choice.
Smallpox has been listed as ereadicated, with only lab samples of the virus known to exist. The last known case of smallpox was in Somalia in 1978. The last children in the US to recieve the smallpox vaccine were born in 1969 and 1970.
When was the last time you heard of a polio case in the US? If there was one, it would be huge news. Polio is known right now only to exist in 4 countries, according to the WHO
http://www.polioeradication.org/cont...hly_sitrep.asp
Vaccinations now have far fewer harmful ingredients in them now than they ever have, mainly due to a large increase in medical knowledge about what things do to our bodies. One of the ingredients you listed in your post was thimerosol, which is no longer in child vaccines, and is in vaccines for adults in such minute amounts that you would get more mercury from eating a can of tuna.
The dangers from vaccines are far outweighed by the elimination of the diseases that they prevent.
As to doing research, be VERY very careful about the studies you take a look at. The scientific methodology of many of the articles about vaccines on the web are doubtful at best. Look at the authors, who funded the studies, credentials, peer review, etc.
I thought it was the law here to get them vaccinated. I am pretty sure it is. I think they should get vaccinated. Rabies and distemper and parvo and everything else is scary.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
Its required to get vaccinated against certain things. I think the only thing REQUIRED by law, here, is rabies, and I'm sure that is the same everywhere (in the US at least). But as far as vaccinating against other diseases like parvo, distemper, etc, those aren't required by law. Not here, anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by shihtzulover850
In the state I live in it is required by law for rabies. I don't know about other vaccinations but I get them done anyway. This is something that happens rarely. If Snuggles wasn't vaccinated I couldn't take her to the kennel/doggy daycare or the groomers. There are some human vaccines that I think are unnecessary. Others I think we should get. Just my opinion
Well as Sarah mentioned previously in this thread, you can get a titer and go to public places without having vaccinations. I know what a titer is now, hehe, didn't at first.Quote:
Originally Posted by shihtzulover850
I as just discussing this with a friend last week. Back years ago, I'm 60, you had a family dog and I don't every remember going to the vets. My grandfather had a dog on his farm that lived to almost 20 or so and he never laid eyes on a vet. I know that the rabies shots are necessary, but I question all of this twice a year visits, etc. I consider myself a responsible pet owner, all are neutered and they do get their shots each year.
Has America's extravagance with their pets caused the increase in vet bills?
Any opinions?
Labmomma :)
Wolfsoul I really cannot say vaccines for dogs are good or bad, i don't even have a dog, so i am not saying you are wrong by any means, my whole overall opinion is I would rather vaccinate than not, that is purely my opinion, and yes i have had both my children vaccinated, i am with Lady's Human on this ,i strongly believe in Humans that the risks of the disease,outweigh the risks of the vaccine,as for animals well i am not knowledgeable on that i confess, but i still prefer to vaccinate my cats, so far so good.
There will always be cases where things go wrong, and if that happened to me i am sure i would re-think my position on this subject.
I recently had Melissa vaccinated for meningicoccal (sp)again this is controversial, and there is always a risk,and of course everytime you vaccinate your child you worry and wonder are you doing the right thing,but i sure could not live with myself knowing there was a vaccine available and my child got this illness because i decided against it, and since we went through a very scarey situation when she was four and suspected of having this, i am not prepared to take the risk now knowing there is a vaccine available.,this disease is horrific and for those who do not know is very prevalent in NZ for what reason I am unsure of,and can also result in loss of limbs, I am not prepared to take the risk.
So for me i would vaccinate my animals just the same,but whenever i make a decision i always look at all the pros and cons and do not simply rush into it, vaccination whether it be for humans or animals is a personal thing, and only we can decide what we think is best for our family be it human or furkids.
I have an online friend who contracted polio, for some reason his parents decided against vaccination ,he now has to live with the consquences the rest of his life and they are not nice.