Walking a dog aggressive dog off lead? OPINIONS PLEASE

I wanted to ask everyone's opinions about something that happened to me yesterday. Comments would be appreciated. :)

Kya is an 18 month old Lab/Border Collie mix who belongs to my friend. I have known her since she was 18 weeks old. She is extremely high energy and VERY ball/toy motivated. She loves people and especially kids. She is also dog aggressive, but there is a reason for this, as she was attacked by another dog at 12 weeks old (before my friend owned her) and suffered a broken jaw which had to be wired. So you cant blame her for being fear aggressive around other dogs, having suffered such a traumatic experience when she was just a pup.

However, i'd say her fear aggression was mild. She WILL NOT ever run up to another dog or look for a fight. Even if another dog runs up to her she wont react, and its only if a dog gets right in her face that she will snap. (And it is just snapping, not attacking or lunging or anything, just 'im scared, leave me alone' sort of thing). She has 100% recall offlead, and like I said, WILL NOT approach another dog.

So, I was walking her off lead in the park yesterday. There were no other dogs around, and we were playing fetch. Suddenly, a black and white spaniel appeared from nowhere and began to run towards Kya. Its owner ( a woman) was calling it but it was taking no notice. I called Ky straight to me, she came straight away and i grabbed her collar. I called to the woman "Can you call your dog off please, mines not friendly". The woman called her dog again but it ignored her. It came right up to us, got into Kyas face and she snapped at it, didnt actually bite, just snapped, and growled.

The woman ran up to us, grabbed her dog and yelled in my face "you stupid cow, if shes aggressive she should be on a lead" I tried explaining to the woman that Kya wont approach another dog, and would only snap if a dog approached her, and that as Ky comes straight back to me when I call her, the only way she can snap at a dog would be if the dog came upto us, but the woman was having none of it. She kept yelling, calling me a stupid b*tch and telling me i should keep my dog on a lead. She asked for my name and address, and told me she if she saw Kya in that park again she would be calling the police.

Now, honest opinions, was I in the wrong here? I accept that, for MOST dog aggressive dogs, they shouldnt be let off lead where other dogs are about. But for a dog who wont approach another dog, who has a perfect recall and who was no more than 20 feet away from me at any time, surely its different?

As I tried to explain to the woman, the situation wouldve been no different if I HAD've had Kya on a lead, as her dog would've still run upto us, and Kya still wouldve snapped at it. I had hold of Kyas collar long before the dog reached us, and I gave the woman plenty of warning that Kya wasnt friendsly, so, if anything, its the WOMAN who should have her dog off lead, as it completely ignored her when she was calling it. What if id've been the other side of a road and her dog had seen Kya? Would it've ran out into the road to get to her, because it has no recall? Would it still have been my fault then? HER dog was out of control, not mine. :mad:

Sorry for such a long rant, it just annoyed me having my details taken and being yelled at, for something I feel wasnt my fault. Am I wrong? Should I not be allowed to let Kya off lead, or was this woman overreacting? The worst part is that she called me irresponsible, which i dont think I am. Opinions please? :(

Thanks,

Amy.

Ps. Will have some photos of Kya to share soon, she's a great dog!

EDITED TO ADD: To prevent anymore confusion ... This was a public park, not a dog park (we dont have dog parks in the UK) and it is the norm in the UK to walk your dog offlead as long as it is controllable (ie has good recall etc) :)

Honestly I don't think she should be in a place where there are other off leash dogs. It's great she has a perfect recall, but that doesn't meant all the other dogs do too.

Now for that exact situation I'd say it was part your fault and part the other woman's. She should've been able to call her dog back to her, but she shouldn't have had to worry about her dog getting snapped at for greeting another dog either. You're right it would have been the same if Kya had been in the park on a leash, but leashed or not she shouldn't have been a park where other dogs are off leash. I think you were asking for trouble.

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Originally Posted by KBlaix

Honestly I don't think she should be in a place where there are other off leash dogs. It's great she has a perfect recall, but that doesn't meant all the other dogs do too.

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I tend to agree with that statement. I have a dog aggressive dog too. Kayleigh has great recall. I don't let her off leash where other dogs are because I can't control the other dogs. I can control Kayleigh, but you just never know what another dog will do. I've put too much time and effort into saving Kayleigh to have her declared dangerous because of someone else's stupidity. Up here, an off-leash dog involved in a fight, wether she started it or not, can be declared dangerous. Fortunately, I don't have to go very far to get to where there are no other dogs around so she does still get her off-leash time.

personally, I think she was in the wrong for having a dog who ignores her! it probably frightened her and that was the reason for her outburst, but, you *did* warn her, and you *did* have your dog with you...it was her dog who approached and in theory caused the problems.

no matter who's to blame though, there's never any need for being so insulting and rude, and in my opinion gives a good idea of what kind of owner she is.

x

I'd have to say the lady was 100% in the wrong. ALL off leash dogs must have perfect recall & if it runs off & causes problems then the owner of the off leash dog is to blame 100%. What if her dog ran into a yard where an agressive dog lives? whos at fault? the off leashed dog!

If you cannot control your dog keep it on a darn leash & I don't care how friendly it is.

I don't know HOW many times I've yelled at people for allowing their dog to run or charge towards me! My old dog wasn't dog agressive but if that dog jumpped on me, he would rip it off of me & shake it like a rag doll (not hurting the dog, just scaring the living hell out of it, slobbering all over it & then tossing it away & ignoring it if it left). Max knew I would get a little scared of a charging barking dog (not trotting) & thats when not so good things happened. Back home whoevers dog was off leash was at fault 100% no matter what happened. <-- thats the way it should be

In my opinion your dog isn't very aggressive at all. An agressive dog is unpredictable and would overcorrect an excited dog by attacking. Your dog snapped but did not injure. This is a proper command for "back off". Sure she's scared of other dogs and needs some working with, but I don't consider her aggressive. Normal people who don't know how to speak dog, like this lady, would blame the wrong dog for what happens. You need to calmly explain to people that your dog is performing a perfectly acceptable command and that their dogs need to be socialized more so that the dogs can learn to recognize signals from other dogs. You are in the right in this situation.

What a peice of work that women was! I think that a dog aggressive dog CAN be off lead in an unfenced but supervised area.

I don't think you did anything wrong. Her dog shouldn't have been offleash if it doesn't come when called. Kya doesn't sound scary aggressive to me, just like she needs supervision, which you were doing. Some people.

I'll probably get bashed here but, sorry...I believe ALL dogs should be on a lead when out in public. Aggressive or not aggressive. It's the law in most states and is for the safety of children, adults and other animals.

I believe the woman was also at fault for not having her dog on a lead too.

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Originally Posted by moosmom

I'll probably get bashed here but, sorry...I believe ALL dogs should be on a lead when out in public. Aggressive or not aggressive. It's the law in most states and is for the safety of children, adults and other animals.

I believe the woman was also at fault for not having her dog on a lead too.

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I agree in public places,i live in the country and i let my dogs go but they are either in my fenced in yard or in the field out back my place,My RB Bandit was aggressive and i was so careful with him i always had him muzzled in all circumstances.I was so scared of him nipping someone now im not saying the dog should be destroyed but knowing the dogis aggressive the owner should be that much careful,when i had company i always took Bandit out to his pen so he was always away from people Bandit was good with family that is it he lunged at my neighbor once,that is when i was like OMG what is wrong come to find out the neighbor hit him on the head and scuffed the top of his head,
So he had every right to feel the way he did but,that did not give me the right to say well let him bite him....I had to be the responsible one and say ok he is not to be around anybody,And i would still have him if he was not Killed on the road,
All animals should have a chance aggressive or not but the owner should know what they are doing,and not take any chances or they will be the ones that winde up in trouble...

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Originally Posted by Maltese_Love

What a peice of work that women was! I think that a dog aggressive dog CAN be off lead in an unfenced but supervised area.

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Supervised or not they should still not take a chance,now a days there is lawsuits against dogs that bite,is it really worth it?I think knowing that the dog is a agressive just to be more careful.I'm no saying dont walk the dog,they all deserve walks but if there not trustable they should be mussled my friend lost her Yorkie to a Rotti,And the Rotti was tempermental and off lead and no muzzle that owner got in lots of trouble*****I'm not saying Rotti's are bad,i have owned them but this one was and that was that *****You just have to be careful.

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You just have to be careful.

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I think common sense plays a big part in the whole scenario. I ALSO think the reason why the woman didn't call the police is because she was just as much at fault and didn't want to get in trouble herself as well.

And that is the Bottom Line

I think the women was in the wrong. You did the right thing, you got your dog back and as you said, the same thing would of ocurred whether your dog was offleash or not. My biggest pet peeve is dogs who don';t come back when called and are not controlled.

Sounds to me like you ran into a "C-R-A-Z-Y" person. I don't know. This is a tough one. Since you do know that your dog can be dog aggressive, you should probably never have her off lead, since a dog can run up to her very quickly before you may even have time to call her back. But from what you describe of the other lady, she's a piece of work. And a very rude individual to boot! In the future should you encounter another situation like this (it doesn't have to be dog related), be polite and explain yourself (as you attempted to do so) but you DO NOT have to offer any credentials or personal details. She is NOT the police and you owe her NO details other than your sincere apology. If she wants to call the police, tell her, "go ahead". Offer to lend her your cell phone. I find that 99.9 percent of rude bullies decline when their bluff is called - especially when she was equally wrong!

I tend to agree with KBlaix and Glacier on this. One of my dogs can be dog aggressive. For the most part she's fine but periodically she'll run across one she doesn't like and I'm not willing to chance it. I have control over her but I don't have control over another dog so I always keep her on a leash when in public to make sure she's close and I never take her to off leash parks for the simple reason I know a lot of owner don't have full control over their dogs.

So I guess my response to this situation would be dependent on if you were in an offleash park. If you were then I can understand the woman being upset (although it sounds like she over reacted). If you weren't and both of you just had your dogs offleash then no she had absolutely no right to act the way she did especially since you had control and she didn't.

I was confused by the original post at first. At first it sounded like you were on a walk in the neighborhood and your dog was off lead. Then it sounded like you were in a park area. I assume it was a dog park since other dogs were off lead also.

I'm going to address this as if the dogs were in a dog park because if they were on a neighborhood street neither of the dogs should of been off leash.

In a dog park environment, you need to understand that not everyone who goes to a dog park has a trained dog that will listen in an excited environment to a recall (even if they do at home). Unfortunately, you have to expect that as the norm and not the unusual. Unless there is a lot of room to make sure you can get your dog on leash before another dog comes near, you must keep it on lead for YOUR dogs safety. While it doesn't sound like your dog is truly an aggressive dog, she does have fear issues around other dogs and 90% of all dog bites occur out of fear.

When I take my Dusty to the dog park, I am always on guard because as loving and friendly as he is with people, he is very territorial over his frisbee when another dog tries to play with it. For that reason, I never participate in community dog play at the park with him. I go there strictly for walking him on trails that are not frequented too much and I always put him on leash if another dog comes near until I know they are not frisbee nuts too. That is Dusty's only issue. I can go to the park without his frisbee and he would be fine but he enjoys it so I'd rather be on it gives him great joy to chase it at the park and I have a hard time However, I usually do take it because it's great exercise for him and it give him great joy. :D I'm just always on guard.

With your dog, you will also need to be on guard. Not so much for your dogs inability to listen but for other dogs who visit the park that do not listen. I tend to lean on the side of better safe than sorry.

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Originally Posted by IRescue452

In my opinion your dog isn't very aggressive at all. An agressive dog is unpredictable and would overcorrect an excited dog by attacking. Your dog snapped but did not injure. This is a proper command for "back off". Sure she's scared of other dogs and needs some working with, but I don't consider her aggressive. Normal people who don't know how to speak dog, like this lady, would blame the wrong dog for what happens. You need to calmly explain to people that your dog is performing a perfectly acceptable command and that their dogs need to be socialized more so that the dogs can learn to recognize signals from other dogs. You are in the right in this situation.

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I completely agree. Every dog can snap, it's just dog language. It doesn't mean they are dangerous.

That lady was 100 percent wrong in my opinion.

:/ the same thing kind of happened to me and my friend when we were letting our dogs play yesterday, at a park that allows dogs to be off-leash as long as they're "UNDER VOICE COMMAND", which is actually the general rule in most big parks in my area. I feel that Gonzo is actually more obedient off-leash than on, because he knows he has to give me all of his attention when he is off-leash. A Lab ran across the street and through the field and right up to my friend's Aussie (again, with the owner yelling and the dog acting like he was deaf :p), and was jumping all over Chance, the Aussie. Chance did definitely growl and snap at the Lab, and he's a VERY friendly dog who has never done that to Gonzo, ever.

When we saw the Lab coming, we immediately called our dogs and put them on their leashes, so we could stand in front of them and control the situation if need be... I definitely think if there are people/animals/cars/etc closeby or the dog has unpredictable recall, the dog should definitely be on-leash. But, there's NO way you should be punished for wanting to play with your obedient dog, and you be punished simply because your dog expects some manners from other dogs! That lady sounds way crazy... next time I advise you to put her on-leash if another dog is coming towards you, so you definitely won't be in the wrong. ^_^

Fear aggression is still aggression. If Kya is snapping at other dogs she should not be in a dog park. The snapping could've evolved into a more serious situation. Any dog that shows any signs of aggression, even minor aggression, should not be at a dog park. It's not fair to the other dogs or their owners.

The other lady wasn't too nice and shouldn't have threatened to call the police, but she was mad and overreacted. I would've been mad too if I was in a dog park and another dog was snapping at my dog when all my dog did was greet the other.

To my understanding, it was a public park not a dog park, where dogs shouldn't be uncontrollably running all over the place. :(

I just want to point out a couple of things. Firstly, I believe the dog Comedy Devil wrote about is not her dog but belongs to a friend (very well trained by her by the sound of it) and secondly that we do not have dog parks here in the UK nor are there leash laws as in the US.

Now my opinion, for what it's worth.
In a similar situation the spaniel dog that ran up to Kya would have been my Bob because he, like that dog, would not have come back to me when I called. If, as happened with Kya, the person with the dog had grabbed it and said the dog was not friendly, would I have shouted and threatened the person? Would I heck, I would just be so glad that person had control over their dog, unlike me, and what could become a nasty situation was avoided.

(p.s. I never let my Bob off the leash because he completely ignores me ... all that is in his head are the enticing smells and sounds around him, nothing else exists.)

Thanks for all the replies, guys.

Just to clarify, as ChrisH said, I live in the UK, and we don't have dog parks. It was a public park where the incident happened, and it is the norm to let your dogs off lead as long as they are controllable, which in my opinion, Kya is.

I'm glad that people agree I had control of Kya, but I can also understand what some other people are saying about assuming an offleash dog is friendly. I always try and find a place with no other dogs before I let her offlead, as I said, this was a BIG park and the spaniel really did come from nowhere, but obviously, Kya needs to run and, as she IS controllable, i dont see why she shouldnt be allowed off lead when its safe to do so.

IMO, people who's dogs have no recall are FAR more dangerous than a dog who snaps if approached, as i said, I can call my dog back, they cant.

Thanks for all the advice. :)

I'm going through the same thing with my Newf she took off for half an hour yesterday..Thing that frustrates me the most is when you call your dog,they look at you then turn and run..I was a mess yesterday i went after her,did not chase her but she had led me through fields swamped ditches finally i got a hold of her and we came home so now i will be having to take her back to obedience,or something i will not have a dog that runs!!!! So as a reponsible pet owner i have to take action in getting this fixed!!!,