Leash walking question

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03-16-2006, 01:16 PM
mtblaura

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Leash walking question

I have a question about leash walking - I was taught in my owner obedience, whoops, I mean dog obedience class, that it is ok to let your dog walk in front of you sniff around, etc. as long as you can get them to heel when you want them to. However, I am noticing that some people believe that the dog should NEVER walk in front of you because it is a dominance issue. How important do you think this is? I am a little confused about what is best.
I have a one year old retriever mix who is generally pretty submissive and very good with her heel, etc.
03-16-2006, 02:03 PM
Crazy-Cat-Lover

I let Bailey walk in front of me now since he is only 3 months old. When he is older, he will walk on my left side, right beside me. I know that you should never let your dog go through a door before you or walk in front of you. I think it's okay if the dogs not pulling on the leash, since that is a sign of dominance.
03-16-2006, 04:22 PM
Karen

We always allowed our dogs to walk in front, as long as they did not pull on the leash, and followed our instructions. We never had any dominance problems with them.
03-16-2006, 09:30 PM
dab_20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karen

We always allowed our dogs to walk in front, as long as they did not pull on the leash, and followed our instructions. We never had any dominance problems with them.

That's the same with me. I let them walk through doors infront of me, too. Personally, I don't think it really matters about how you should walk through doorways before them. Make sure your dog doesn't acctually pull on the leash, though.
03-16-2006, 09:38 PM
*iluvskipper*

i don't think that matters at all. they can walk in front of you if they want to those ppl don't kno what they're talkin about!!!
03-16-2006, 09:39 PM
dab_20

Quote:

Originally Posted by *iluvskipper*

i don't think that matters at all. they can walk in front of you if they want to those ppl don't kno what they're talkin about!!!

Alot of people on here DO know what they are talking about. They are experienced dog owners and some are even trainers.
03-19-2006, 11:48 AM
VTJess03

I have had problems with Belle and pulling (as you already know, Laura :) ). I found that when I started 'leading' and not 'following' especially through doorways, she started looking to me for directional leadership. If I make her walk beside or behind me, she pays more attention to me and less to the interesting things all around her.

Maddy seems to already be a submissive personality pooch, and seems to realize you're the boss. If Maddy is totally focused on you, I see no reason to make her walk behind or beside you, but if she's like Belle, and is determined to be the leader and set your course on the walk, she needs to be put back in her place (i.e. following your leadership in both commands and in choosing where to walk).
03-22-2006, 11:03 AM
pitc9

Buddy is the best dog to walk, he is glued to my side and looks up at me once in a while as if to ask "Mom, may I please go sniff that?"
He's the best! So if he wants to walk in front of me to sniff something I'll let him (doesn't last long before he's back by my side)
Sierra on the other hand....ugh... :rolleyes: she's a nighmare to walk!
She pulls like there's no tomorrow, tries to step in front of me all the time, etc. So when it comes to her I tell her when it's okay for her to leave my side and sniff what ever she wants. She's a bossy little lady if I don't keep a tight grip on her!
It all depends on the dog.
Yes, in my opinion it's okay to let your dog do as it pleases while walking as long as it doesn't become a problem!
03-22-2006, 11:43 AM
Vela

If your dog is well leash trained and does not pull then it is okay to let them walk in front but only when YOU allow it. You should always be in control and they should heel immediately upon command. If you have a puller then it's best not to let them walk ahead of you as it puts them in control and not you. If anyone has watched Cesar Millan (Dog Whipserer) he stresses the importance of these things. These same types of things are discussed in the book "The Dog Listener" by Jan Fennell. If your dog is submissive and sees you as the pack leader and responds to you right away, it's not as important to enforce the dominance all of the time and you can relax and let them go ahead of you, etc. If you have a problem dog it's very important to not even let them go out the door unless you tell them it's okay, especialy not in front of you.

"i don't think that matters at all. they can walk in front of you if they want to those ppl don't kno what they're talkin about!!!"

Personally, I will take the advice of Cesar Millan and various other dog trainers over your advice, as it appears you are the one who doesn't really know what you are talking about in this instance.
03-22-2006, 02:32 PM
tessa_s212

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vela

If your dog is well leash trained and does not pull then it is okay to let them walk in front but only when YOU allow it. You should always be in control and they should heel immediately upon command. If you have a puller then it's best not to let them walk ahead of you as it puts them in control and not you. If anyone has watched Cesar Millan (Dog Whipserer) he stresses the importance of these things. These same types of things are discussed in the book "The Dog Listener" by Jan Fennell. If your dog is submissive and sees you as the pack leader and responds to you right away, it's not as important to enforce the dominance all of the time and you can relax and let them go ahead of you, etc. If you have a problem dog it's very important to not even let them go out the door unless you tell them it's okay, especialy not in front of you.

"i don't think that matters at all. they can walk in front of you if they want to those ppl don't kno what they're talkin about!!!"

Personally, I will take the advice of Cesar Millan and various other dog trainers over your advice, as it appears you are the one who doesn't really know what you are talking about in this instance.

The dominance pack theory junk is SO overrated. That was studied over thirty years ago..and people still by into all that alpha rolliing, scruff shaking, don't let the dog walk ahead of you junk?

BTW, Ceaser Millian guy ..well, not much to say about him other than he is a GREAT actor! Instead of that dog training show of his that he has he should really go into the acting business. :rolleyes:
03-22-2006, 02:40 PM
Jessika

Quote:

Originally Posted by *iluvskipper*

i don't think that matters at all. they can walk in front of you if they want to those ppl don't kno what they're talkin about!!!

A lot of "those ppl" have owned, trained, and raised dogs their entire life (probably longer than I have even been alive) and I would imagine they most certainly DO know what they are talking about.

That having been said, it is fine so long as they are not pulling on the leash. The SECOND Jamie starts to pull, I stop dead in my tracks and do not resume walking until she has stopped pulling, or sat down (she usually sits as soon as I stop walking).
03-22-2006, 03:56 PM
Vela

Quote:

Originally Posted by tessa_s212

THe dominance pack theory junk is SO overrated. That was studied over thirty years ago..and people still by into all that alpha rolliing, scruff shaking, don't let the dog walk ahead of you junk? Well, if we still use ancient training methods, why not go back to medicine we were using 50 years ago. It certainly wouldn't do any harm. In fact, the medicine we used 50 years ago is BETTER than what we have discovered and researched now. (I hope you sensed that sarcasm.)

If we don't use medicine from 50 years ago, why should we still be using those training methods when more, better more effecitve methods have come along?

BTW, Ceaser Millian guy ..well, not much to say about him other than he is a GREAT actor! Instead of that dog training show of his that he has he should really go into the acting business.

Because your opinion differs from mine does not mean you ought to be rude and condesceding. I am as entitled to comment on how I think or feel as much you are and since you seem to know so much more why not tell her how to best train her dog. You didn't bother to offer up one helpful suggestion to her, you merely jumped in with your opinions on my comments, which were never asked for in the first place. Unless you personally know Cesar Millan, or Jan Fennell, or any of the other trainers then you can't say much about them except your opinion on the subject. This doesn't make it true or not true, it's simply your opinion. If you disagree fine, offer better suggestions, but you ought to treat others whose opinion may differ with more respect. If you have a better idea for her then why not offer that rather than simply trying to start a fight? That accomlishes nothing helpful to the OP. Have a nice day.
03-22-2006, 05:07 PM
ParNone

Just my opinion, but to me there's one fundmental concept in dog training and even in child rearing, that makes common sense no matter how old. You need to be the leader, setting a path for your dog or child to follow. If you're gonna let them be the leader and you the follower, be prepared for the bumpy, hazardous path they drag you down. That doesn't mean you have to use violent methods to get there, spanking, alpha rolling or scruff shaking, etc and I didn't see anybody advocating that on this thread.

For dogs, one really easy method to show you're the leader and they are the follower, is to control where y'all go and how they will conduct themselves, when they're on the leash. If they're pulling you here and yonder, who do you think they view as the leader? Might be an old concept, but when something makes sense, it'll still make sense whether 50 years old or 100.

I have 3 dogs. They're trained and for the most part pretty well behaved, but when I added the 3rd dog, who is a bit more dominant, I started having a problem with them getting unruly outside. Barking at anybody passing by our fence. Although trained, I wasn't being very consistent with things that would establish me as leader.

I decided to institute 2 simple things for them to follow and be consistent about doing it everytime. One, they have to wait at all doors going outside, until I go through and then give them the okay to follow. Two, when walking on the leash, they have to heel beside me, until I give them a release command, that they're free to explore a lil'.

You'd be amazed at the improvement. If they start to show interest in anybody outside the fence, I'm now able to redirect them to something else, because they're following my lead outside. They're listening.

Par...
03-22-2006, 05:22 PM
Vela

Very well put Par and exactly what I was talking about.

Just as a side note of interest, some older aspects of medicine are still used today...they use leeches on skin grafts to help restore blood flow to areas of burn vicitims or accident victims who need large grafts. Yes even today in the largest hospitals in the world, just typed one up the other day. So while some things change, some fundamental things do stay the same, and continue to be helpful.
03-22-2006, 06:12 PM
Tollers-n-Dobes

I prefer my dogs to heel when I'm walking them but occasionally I'll let them out ahead for a little while and eventually call them back to a heel. As long as they're still paying attention to what I'm telling them, then I don't have a problem with them being ahead unless they begin to pull.

ETA: As fa as the door thing goes, I do not allow my dogs to walk through a door way before me unless I ask them to. They all know that and will wait behind me until they here their release command. Same goes with stairs. I don't do it to prevent dominance though, I do it for their safety and my own. I hate it when I go to someones house and their dog bolts out the door before me or another person or practically knocks you down the stairs because they want to go first.
03-23-2006, 06:38 AM
Lori Jordan

When i took my guys to obedience i was told they should walk by your side....but i have never followed that as long as they don'y pull me but as i have said before everybody has there own ways of doing things..With my bandit he would pull me so hard where i was near doing face plants..My intructor said get him a prong colar i was all for it till i seen the colar but i tell ya it worked!!!!! he was such a good walker after that and i only had to use the colar twice..
03-23-2006, 06:07 PM
mtblaura

Thanks for all the input everyone. I definitely agree that dogs need a leader. I think that this makes all the difference in training. Personally I really like Cesar Millan's methods quite a bit.
Allowing your dog to be the boss does nothing good for you, or your dog, in my opinion. Those ideas may have originated in the 50's, but that doesn't mean they are no longer relevant. That is way we have been big with boundaries for miss Maddy. I do not think alpha rollovers, hitting, etc. are appropriate either, but firm leadership and house rules are.

Lately I have gone back to what I did before with Maddy - let her sniff around on walks, but if she pulls, or we cross the street, or I ask her to stop, we do not continue walking until she obeys. She always lets me go through doors first, and will not follow me in until I ask. So I would say that just staying in control but allowing her to do the sniffing thing on occasion has made us both very happy!

Maddy's favorite thing to do on walks now (when not heeling) is scoop up snow so that it sits on top of her nose. That always makes me laugh! :D

BTW, Lori- there is a plastic prong collar called the Good Dog collar that can work quite well for training. Our obedience teacher says they are more humane than chokers, because they pull evenly and do not require as much force. I have tried them on my own arm and find that to be true! They are considered to be very safe, and don't "poke" as much as the metal ones. Personally these have worked much better than Halti's or standard chokers for me.
03-24-2006, 11:03 AM
Dixieland Dancer

This is not a one size fits all question. It depends on the dog and the handler and how there relationship is. In obedience training an instructor gives advice that is suitable for the majority of the class. They will give individual tips as necessary and as time in the class permits. However, it is the handlers responsibility to have control of their dog at all times!

So I believe the answer to this question of letting your dog walk in front of you during walks depends on your dog and it's relationship with you. If you have control of your dog at all times and the dog respects you as it's leader then letting it walk ahead of you could be a pleasant experience for the dog so why not let it enjoy his walk too. Just never settle for pulling or an uncontrollable dog.

On the other hand, if your dog is out of control on walks with constant pulling and doesn't respect you as the leader (a whole different discussion topic), then you need to make walks more structured and a time for learning along with the exercise it is getting. In this situation you may need to find a way of releasing the dogs pent up energy before the walk so it will be a more beneficial learning experience instead of a pulling contest. Some dogs have so much energy that they just can't focus on heeling unless some of it is expelled first.

The bottom line.... only you know if walking ahead of you on a walk is bad or not for your dog. I personally let both of mine explore as long as they keep my pace and heel when told to for their safety (ie.. a car coming). After all, I'm walking them for their benefit as well as mine.