I disagree with him, its not a jumping contest its 4 minutes.
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I disagree with him, its not a jumping contest its 4 minutes.
The point Stojko was making is that, unlike other Olympic athletes who do their utmost and give it all, the scoring system in figure skating no longer encourages skaters to do that. Stojko landed a few quads in his career...if technical difficulty counts for much less - or nothing - from now on, it's a bit of a slam to the pioneers. To quote from the previous article:http://www.vancouver2010.com/olympic..._145912Fz.htmlQuote:
...kids now are going to see this and say, “Oh, I don’t need a quad. I can just do great footwork for presentation marks and do a couple of nice spins and make it to Olympic champion.” With that type of scoring, you don’t have to risk it. You can play it safe and win gold.
More here:Quote:
Singles
In singles skating, skaters must complete both a short program (maximum 2 minutes 50 seconds) of required steps, jumps, spins and combinations, and a longer free skating program (4 minutes for ladies, 4 minutes 30 seconds for men), both set to music. The free skate — worth two-thirds of a skater’s final score — allows the athletes to demonstrate their creativity, innovative moves and technical difficulty.
http://www.ctvolympics.ca/figure-ska...wsid=3472.html
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Judging
A panel of nine judges scores the programs but a random, secret draw by computer 45 minutes prior to the start of each segment of competition determines which seven of those judges' marks will form the result for that segment. The marks of all judges are still displayed and judges do not know if their marks are contributing to the score.
Scoring - ISU Judging System
The ISU Judging System (also known as Code of Points) was introduced in response to the judging scandal in the pairs event at the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympic Winter Games. Replacing the 6.0 scoring system, it was tested on the ISU Grand Prix in 2003-04 before being implemented in all ISU competitions in 2004-05. It was first used at the Olympic Winter Games in 2006.
Under the 6.0 system, judges scored the skaters in relation to each other. The marks were a reflection of the overall impression of a program. Under the ISU Judging System, each individual element is assigned a value. Skaters try to accrue as many points as possible while staying within the boundaries of the required elements.
There are two sets of marks: the Technical Elements Score (TES) and the Program Components Score (PCS). The TES is based on the difficulty of the elements in a program and the quality with which those elements are performed. The PCS grades the overall presentation and performance. The TES and the PCS are added together to determine the Total Segment Score (TSS) for each skater/couple in each program. The final results are determined by adding together the TSS from each program for each skater/couple.
• Technical Elements Score (TES)
The Technical Specialist identifies the elements performed and their Levels of Difficulty (where applicable). All elements are assigned a base value in the Scale of Values (SOV). Base values for jumps and throw jumps are based on the type of jump and the number of rotations. A triple Axel (8.2) is worth more points than the less difficult double Axel (3.5). A triple Lutz (6.0) is worth more than the less difficult triple Salchow (4.5). Non-jump elements such as spins, step sequences, lifts, death spirals and twizzles are assigned values based on the Level of Difficulty, which can range from Level 1 (the easiest) to Level 4 (the most difficult). The technical specialist will give the element a level based on the number of features it includes. A spin can be made more difficult by changing edge or position, showing a difficult variation of a position or entering the spin in a difficult way. The amount of variety in the steps and turns in step sequences will affect the Level.
Once an element is identified, the members of the judging panel score the quality of execution of each element, using seven Grades of Execution (GOE) ranging from -3 to +3. The GOE either adds to or deducts from the base value of the element. Each grade corresponds to a specific + or - numerical value which is indicated in the SOV. In determining the GOE, judges consider the quality of positions, speed, flow, entrances and exits of the elements. Judges first evaluate the positive features of an element and then reduce the score if there are any errors committed. The negative GOE to be applied is specified by the type of error on the element.
The judging panel's GOE for each element is determined by calculating the trimmed means of the grades of execution awarded by the judges chosen by the random draw. The highest and lowest values of the seven scoring judges are deleted and an average is made of the remaining values. This average becomes the final GOE for each element. The panel's GOE is rounded to two decimal places. The graded scores for all the individual elements are added together to determine the TES for the program.
Evan had also done quad's in his career but chose not to since he had a previous foot injury, I still disagree with that one opinion.
I certainly am not an expert and do not know what the answer is, but I do know what I like to see. And I know everyone has their own opinion, thoughts, and ideas. But....
Give me a SKATE that is enjoyable to watch because it is done well.
Not a jump fest of jumps that are done in an ugly manner, or worse, fallen on.
It is figure SKATING not figure JUMPING!
Those who feel so strongly about jumping need to organize themselves and start a new discipline...figure jumping.
Plushenko's foot work stinks. It's a bunch of flailing around, positions that are not hit with any importance. At least that is my take on them, and my opinion of them.
Stojko was a jumping machine and refused to admit that there was a "balletic" side of skating, but I always enjoyed seeing him live as he always looked into the audience and made you feel like he was there for you. I realise he's saying this is not a bash on any particular skaters, but I still think he's wrong on saying there needs to be quads, or a skater needs to have a quad in his arsenal.
You have to take into consideration the toll these jumps take on the skaters' bodies. They start doing all these jumps before they are done growing. I mean, for crying out loud, where is Tara Lipinski now? Part of the reason she isn't skating much anymore is because at the ripe old age of what, 17?, she had to have hip surgeries!:eek:
Maybe they can give Plushenko a gold medal for whining:rolleyes:
Well, I love watching figure skating...but it will be a bit blander from now on.
M24FF - There are so many amateur and pro athletes whose careers are over while they are in their 30s - I am thinking of hockey players here. There are not very many years in many sports careers.
I wonder if coaches push their younger charges too hard at times? No doubt there is room for abuse there.
This may sound OT - but Lyuba Weilitsch was a stunning and promising opera singer decades ago - and had her career cut short by teachers and managers who pushed her voice too far, too soon.
In the old scoring system, the artistic score broke a tie if there was one. That is how Oksana Baiul won gold over Nancy Kerrigan.
Let's face it, part of figure skating HAS been artistry and presentation!
No matter what sport, each athlete can only push themselves to do what they can do.
I'd give Plushenko two Gold medals if it'd shut him up and send him away forever....for the whining that is, not for his skate!:eek:;):D
Why will it be blander? Did you think Plushenko's performance was less bland than Evans? I would think focusing just on the jumps makes it blander, to me plushenko was very bland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catty1
With all due respect, Plushenko was far from the only one whining.
Since the scoring system for figure skating has changed, the outcomes will differ now.
I guess change brings complaining and whining. Hopefully it will all run well at the next Winter Olympics.:)
Plushenko showed very poor sportmanship, he is a whiner.
I'm sure there are some coaches that push too hard, some athletes that push themselves too hard, and even some parents that push the kids too hard.Quote:
M24FF - There are so many amateur and pro athletes whose careers are over while they are in their 30s - I am thinking of hockey players here. There are not very many years in many sports careers.
I wonder if coaches push their younger charges too hard at times? No doubt there is room for abuse there.
Look at the "older" skaters, though. The ones that didn't have to do a bunch of triples, let alone quads. Even after all his health issues, Scott Hamilton has done some training and I heard he appeared in a couple of shows recently. Roz Sumners skated til she was 40, I believe. Kristi Yamaguchi can still skate well, as can Kurt Browning and several others from that era. Sure, they've had their injuries along the way, and yes, Kurt did do some quads in his day....but the skaters from the 70's, 80's and early 90's seem to have better longevity than the ones who have been brought up in this "7 triples or 5 triples and 2 quads are needed in your program" mentality.
It comes down to each skater needing to know what they can or can't do and doing the best they can with what is part of their "arsenal".
I've always been more of a fan of the professional skaters and skating events, where the skaters are skating for the joy and to entertain the fans.
I wish the World Pro competition could come back, though. I don't understand the politics, but someone told me something the ISU did pretty much makes it impossible for that competition to come back. So my question is...why can't a private pro skater organize some kind of professional competition? At one time, there was talk of some new skating organization to be started, for the pro's, about the pro's, run by the pro's, but obviously that never came to be for whatever reasons.
All sports will be controversial in one way or another, all fans will have a different idea of what is good and what isn't. And I don't think the judging will ever be 100% honest NOR 100% NOT subjective.
Within the new scoring system the point is made that jumps done in the last half of the long program get extra credit. Evan did more jumps in the last half than Plushenko.
For the last full minute of his performance, Plushenko did just the fancy footwork - and it wasn't as good as Evan, or Weir, or Daisuke.
You are right! I'd forgotten Plushenko front-loaded his program.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace
Therefore, no matter what the jump, when a skater does them after the half-way mark, they are going to garner more points because of that!
And I couldn't agree with you more that Plushenko's footwork is not as good as the other skaters'. I think almost any skater does better footwork than Plushenko.
And just being plain ICKY? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by caseysmom
WOW! Some real skating tonight, don't think I will be able to drift off to sleep after all this. When I watched the Canadians I thought of my mom & how she would of loved them & had tears in my eyes. I think they all did magnificent each with their own unique styles & program. I love Ice Dancing!:)