I can't say I'm Sorry

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Originally Posted by Marigold2

Geez Puck you are so kind. I love how you quote the bible in one post while still managing to insult me in another while you hold a gun in one hand look an innocent creature in the eye and blow it's brains out. Read what I wrote again Puck I didn't say anything about innocent babies I spoke about child molesters, murderes and rapists. Just so we are clear, if it was between say you and the hamster, getting a little hot there Puck?

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I was not trying to insult you, I am worried about you, really. The idea that any animal life holds sway over any human life is scary.

As for the Bible and "gun" comment... God has given us responsibility to manage His gift. I doubt there is anything else I can say that would make you understand how I feel. Perhaps look at it this way? Humans are animals, right? We are also at the top of the food chain. So look at it as if we are the top predator. Do you hold the same disdain for say, Eagles? They kill "innocent" prey all the time.

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Originally Posted by marigold

Just so we are clear, if it was between say you and the hamster, getting a little hot there Puck?

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So, just so I am clear... If I was unconscious in a burning building, next to a hamster in its cage and you could only save one of us, you would save the hamster?

Finally... M'am, there is nothing you could say or do that would get me "hot", in any way. I feel sorry for you, not angry at you.

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Originally Posted by Puckstop31

No... The Word of God.

Genesis 1:27-28

"27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

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I'm sorry but I can't be doing with this. While I respect that everyone has a right to choose what they believe (I am still undecided) I really don't think it can be used as ammunition in a "debate"

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Originally Posted by Puckstop31

I was not trying to insult you, I am worried about you, really. The idea that any animal life holds sway over any human life is scary.

As for the Bible and "gun" comment... God has given us responsibility to manage His gift. I doubt there is anything else I can say that would make you understand how I feel. Perhaps look at it this way? Humans are animals, right? We are also at the top of the food chain. So look at it as if we are the top predator. Do you hold the same disdain for say, Eagles? They kill "innocent" prey all the time.



So, just so I am clear... If I was unconscious in a burning building, next to a hamster in its cage and you could only save one of us, you would save the hamster?

Finally... M'am, there is nothing you could say or do that would get me "hot", in any way. I feel sorry for you, not angry at you.

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Get you hot :eek: that is my job :D

Wombat..... I am sure there are many of the extremes in the seal hunt....but I'm also sure that for the most part it is JUST A JOB. they are hired and paid to provide a service.... they are doing so. It may not be the best job out there and you may not like it but it sure puts food on the table.

Newfoundland is like a culture of it's own. They are unlike any group of people I have ever met..... for the most part they would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it. They live a simple life in a simple province.... some of the friendliest (albeit I could be wrong since I can't ever understand a word Charlie says but it sounds nice lol) most helpful people I have known have been from newfoundland. The Seal hunt is like part of their culture. So to them this is just a way of life and a way to put food on the table.... not some joy ride to just go out and club things and then have a big celebration in honor of their deaths.

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Originally Posted by Brody's Mum

I'm sorry but I can't be doing with this. While I respect that everyone has a right to choose what they believe (I am still undecided) I really don't think it can be used as ammunition in a "debate"

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Why?

Puck,

Again if it was a decision between someone evil such as Hitler and your dog I think most people would save their pet before they save a Hilter, or a Jack the Ripper. A great deal of people would save their pet before they would go back in to save a child molester. I don't think there is anything wrong with thinking that way. And no I don't think that EVERY human life is more important then an animal. Some people don't deserve help. Just because my compassion is different then yours does not make me ill. It's a free country and I can help whomever I so choose, give money or time to whatever charity I want.
Staring an animal in the eyes and blowing it's brains out makes me wonder about your mental health, kindness and goodness of heart. What about your dog will you shot him as well if you are bored and need to unwind?

Animals don't hunt for fun or to hang a trophy. They hunt for survival. Nor do they molest their young. Their hearts in many ways are kinder and more loving then humans. As for being on top of the food chain, I don't know about you but my level of compassion is not decided by someones IQ.
Just because a dog, hamster or rabbit is less intelligent then a human does not make their life worth less. I am sure if we could speak to them they would tell you how much they love their lives and don't want to suffer or die. Just as it doesn't make a difference if a person with Altzheimers or mental retardation needs help. Their IQ might be less then a dogs but my compassion again isn't doled out that way. I just don't care about the evil people.

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Originally Posted by Puckstop31

Why?

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Mainly because what is one man's guide is another's whatever the opposite is. Its hard to explain but I guess what I'm saying is that as there is no real proof behind any religion no matter how strongly you believe,quoting from the Bible is on par with quoting from Winnie the Pooh.

I don't mean that to be disrespectful to anyone's religion but as I said, its really hard to contextualise what I'm trying to say

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Originally Posted by Marigold2

Puck,

Again if it was a decision between someone evil such as Hitler and your dog I think most people would save their pet before they save a Hilter, or a Jack the Ripper. A great deal of people would save their pet before they would go back in to save a child molester. I don't think there is anything wrong with thinking that way.

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But that is not what you said. You said "YOU" as in the tense of talking about ME. In your mind are Adolf Hitler and myself parallel people?

Also, would you leave me to die over a hamster? You never answered that for me. It is kind of important here.

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And no I don't think that EVERY human life is more important then an animal. Some people don't deserve help.

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In your mind. To me, there is ALWAYS hope for every human soul.

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Staring an animal in the eyes and blowing it's brains out makes me wonder about your mental health, kindness and goodness of heart. What about your dog will you shot him as well if you are bored and need to unwind?

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First, I don't "blow their brains out". Nice work overly dramatizing though. I do not hunt because I have some urge to kill. You just totally do not understand who I am. You have a sterotype of what a hunter is in your brain and I know nothing will ever change your mind, at least on a internet forum.

See, you suggesting that I would shoot my pets if I was "bored" just shows more and more how irrational and totally EMOTIONAL your ideas about hunting are.

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Nor do they molest their young. Their hearts in many ways are kinder and more loving then humans.

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Except for male polar bears who eat young polar bears. Or... And....


Now..

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As for being on top of the food chain, I don't know about you but my level of compassion is not decided by someones IQ.

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Then you say...

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Just because a dog, hamster or rabbit is less intelligent then a human does not make their life worth less. I am sure if we could speak to them they would tell you how much they love their lives and don't want to suffer or die. Just as it doesn't make a difference if a person with Altzheimers or mental retardation needs help. Their IQ might be less then a dogs but my compassion again isn't doled out that way. I just don't care about the evil people.

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Apparently IQ does have something to do with it. Tell me, what does evil mean to you? What makes a person evil to you?

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Originally Posted by Brody's Mum

Mainly because what is one man's guide is another's whatever the opposite is. Its hard to explain but I guess what I'm saying is that as there is no real proof behind any religion no matter how strongly you believe,quoting from the Bible is on par with quoting from Winnie the Pooh.

I don't mean that to be disrespectful to anyone's religion but as I said, its really hard to contextualise what I'm trying to say

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So what you are saying is that a person cannot use their personal belief system in debate if that system is driven by faith?

My entire point in this debate, that humans have been given all of creation as a gift and that such a gift is ours to use, RESPONSIBLY; is driven entirely by my faith.

Thus, by the logic you use here I could not even participate in this "debate". Is this what you are saying? I am not trying to be aggressive here, I just want to know if that is what you mean.

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Puckstop31

So what you are saying is that a person cannot use their personal belief system in debate if that system is driven by faith?

My entire point in this debate, that humans have been given all of creation as a gift and that such a gift is ours to use, RESPONSIBLY; is driven entirely by my faith.

Thus, by the logic you use here I could not even participate in this "debate". Is this what you are saying? I am not trying to be aggressive here, I just want to know if that is what you mean.

Thank you.

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I understand what you are saying. You obviously have a strong faith which works for you and is great and I think that all views should be expressed in a debate. I just find it hard to accept quotes from a "book" as the basis of an argument. You see, I am not sure if I have a faith or belief and cannot get my head round being given the gift of creation. Who gave it to us? Your faith means you are convinced it was God but me.............I'm just baffled. Just because its written down and millions of people believe it to be true doesn't mean that it is - but people also believed that the world was flat until it was proved otherwise.

However, if I disappear from the face of the earth tonight I will be convinced by your point of view :D

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Originally Posted by Marigold2

Puck,

Again if it was a decision between someone evil such as Hitler and your dog I think most people would save their pet before they save a Hilter, or a Jack the Ripper. A great deal of people would save their pet before they would go back in to save a child molester. I don't think there is anything wrong with thinking that way. And no I don't think that EVERY human life is more important then an animal. Some people don't deserve help. Just because my compassion is different then yours does not make me ill. It's a free country and I can help whomever I so choose, give money or time to whatever charity I want.
Staring an animal in the eyes and blowing it's brains out makes me wonder about your mental health, kindness and goodness of heart. What about your dog will you shot him as well if you are bored and need to unwind?

Animals don't hunt for fun or to hang a trophy. They hunt for survival. Nor do they molest their young. Their hearts in many ways are kinder and more loving then humans. As for being on top of the food chain, I don't know about you but my level of compassion is not decided by someones IQ.
Just because a dog, hamster or rabbit is less intelligent then a human does not make their life worth less. I am sure if we could speak to them they would tell you how much they love their lives and don't want to suffer or die. Just as it doesn't make a difference if a person with Altzheimers or mental retardation needs help. Their IQ might be less then a dogs but my compassion again isn't doled out that way. I just don't care about the evil people.

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I understand what you are saying & I agree 100%. :) Don't let anyone
here manipulate this conversation into a personal one. Some folks are only
content when they are talking about themselves & every discussion turns
into a personal battle.

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Originally Posted by lizbud

I understand what you are saying & I agree 100%. :) Don't let anyone
here manipulate this conversation into a personal one. Some folks are only
content when they are talking about themselves & every discussion turns
into a personal battle.

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How typically sophomoric of you Lizbud. Dodge the issue and attack what you think is my "style" of speaking.

http://www.easterseals.com/site/PageServer
No one has mentioned the Easter Seals.


http://199.208.208.41/

Not all SEALS are helpless.

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Hmmm,

Let's try this one on for size..

Burning building.

You race in and have to save a hunter or someone who abuses little animals.

The stock answer probably will be, "I let them both die!"

Hmmm, makes me wonder...... :confused:

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Originally Posted by Brody's Mum

I understand what you are saying. You obviously have a strong faith which works for you and is great and I think that all views should be expressed in a debate. I just find it hard to accept quotes from a "book" as the basis of an argument. You see, I am not sure if I have a faith or belief and cannot get my head round being given the gift of creation. Who gave it to us? Your faith means you are convinced it was God but me.............I'm just baffled. Just because its written down and millions of people believe it to be true doesn't mean that it is - but people also believed that the world was flat until it was proved otherwise.

However, if I disappear from the face of the earth tonight I will be convinced by your point of view :D

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FWIW, my faith is not driven by a book. I did not sit down... read the bible and think "hey this sounds good to me I'll just go with it" :p My faith is driven by what I have felt and experienced.... it is very hard to explain but my faith is based on my encounters with God. It sounds strange to someone who hasn't experienced it or doesn't know they have experienced it.... but to me it is more real than the nose on my face. Not because some book tells me so... but because of my experiences with God. Again.... sounds strange but to me it is real.

BTW, winnie the pooh is real :D although I suppose the original Pooh is sadly no longer around... but he was a real bear :D lol and Christopher Robin a real boy. OK.... I know entirely too much useless winnie the pooh info. ha

I'm not expecting to change any minds here, but would like to voice my opinion.

I can't speak for Puck or anyone else on here, but I can speak for my moms boyfriend, who is also a hunter. He is one of the most caring men that I have met, and was devistated when his dog finally succumbed to terminal cancer.

He participates in the legal hunting of the White Tailed deer up here in Ontario as part of a population control method to prevent the winter starvation of many of the deer population. He will -not- shoot at a deer until he is guaranteed 100% to kill the animal with the first shot, and has come home from many hunts over many years without a kill. With the exception of my sister, no one in my family or their sig-others are a vegetarian, and I have a lot of respect for my moms boyfriend - he has made the decision to be a part of the food chain, and is seeing what he is eating. How many other 'meat eaters' out there can say the same? How many people get their meat neatly wrapped up in plastic without having any ties to the animal that it came from?

Not all hunters are gun toting yokels, out to shoot everything that moves. Many are caring, and many are environmentalists and care deeply about the world around them.

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Originally Posted by Marigold2

Staring an animal in the eyes and blowing it's brains out makes me wonder about your mental health, kindness and goodness of heart.
...
Animals don't hunt for fun or to hang a trophy. They hunt for survival. Nor do they molest their young. Their hearts in many ways are kinder and more loving then humans.

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So, staring at an animal that has had its guts pulled out by coyotes and humanely ending its life with a bullet makes for less 'mental health'? Yes, this is a situation that my moms bf ran across while out in the woods at the farm, and he did what he had to. I'll let him know that hes unkind and uncaring and has a lack of goodness of heart. Because all hunters are uncaring murderers.

Animals are not always nice or caring to each other. Animals are canabilistic, animals will kill their own young, and predators will toy with a kill and occasionally eat animals while they are still alive (ever see an outdoor kitty playing with a fieldmouse?). I'm sorry if this is graphic, but it is true.

Canabilism?
http://www.tigerhomes.org/animal/php...8dfe1aa5c956d8
http://ladywildlife.com/animal/canni...inanimals.html


EDIT: quote removed as being inadvertantly offensive, as not indended that way.

Thank you Blue Frog.... that was very well put. I guess it is just hard for those on the outside looking in to see beyond their view point. I'm sure not many have spent time with or talking to a true hunter about what they do. They have their opinion and that is fine..... but IMO it is nothing but stereotypical dribble about what they THINK really happens and how they think those hunters are in life and how things work in their mind.

Like your step father ... my husband is one of the most respectful, caring, kind and helpful men I know.