Mr. Biggles is being put to sleep tomorrow

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Originally Posted by Blue_Frog

I could be mistaken, but I believe that the dogs were adopted from the THS's 'Bonded Pair' programme --
http://www.torontohumanesociety.com/...onded_pets.asp
These are pets that are adoped out together as a pair, and returned as a pair if need be. From my understanding, this particular pair has been returned several times to the THS already, making this the last chance they have for a home, and another return would result in both being PTS.

Also, from what i understand, Jess also signed a contract stating that if there were problems with the dogs, they were to be returned to the THS as a pair, and could -not- be rehomed by her.

The fact that one dog, regarless of size, has bitten twice is cause for concern all around. I sympathize for everyone involved, and god only knows what happened in Mr.B's past that would give him this reaction. However, now Chad has been attacked. Not bitten, but a bite/tear enough to cause a 4 inch gash, bleeding and bruising.

If this was a larger dog, the results may have been much worse. If it was the Rottweiler that had attacked (instead of the 10 pound malteese mix) and torn a larger chunk out of Chad than a 4" gash, would the situation be the same? Would there be any question about the dog being PTS? Its unlikely that an unpredictable human agressive small dog has the potential of killing someone that a large breed with the same issues might.

The natural human reaction to being attacked is fear, and it seems now that Chad is unable to live in the house with this dog, with the unpredictability of not knowing if he will be bitten again even if the chances were slim to none. The dog can't be rehomed. The dogs will both likely be PTS if returned. A dog trainer/behaviourist may help - in weeks, months or years at this point, depending on how badly scarred this dog is, or how ingrained the behaviour. Can they live in the house for that long with the possiblility of more attacks?

Jess is making a hard decision, and the decision that she feels is best in this situation. I hope the best for her, and the household.

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I am sorry I didn't know that.. :o but thanks for informing me.

Why this post has botherd me the most is I HAVE BEEN THERE! And i never looked at Bandit any different,I had him in classes,But trust me it was frustrating every time someone showed up id put him in his Kennel outside,Which in a way may not have been fair,But everyone was safe and there was no there situations harming no one.

As most of you know i joined here after i lost Bandit I lost him due to a hit and run,I hate to say this but after he has passed it was like a big brick was lifted off my shoulders,I loved him but i was always on edge,And if he was still here i would never make that horrible desicion,Id have to DEAL with it best i could.


Maybe i am a bad person,I do tend to put my babies before others and if people dont like it,Oh well move on!My kids come first offcourse,But my animals need me more than they do now,That they are nearly grown.

I went the extra mile,I dont see King doing that,One inncident happend who knows what is going on in his head,He needs some guidance,Any of us can turn over and start a new leaf,But giving up dont put us no where,My SIL put her Aussie down last August,Lacy and Jake did not come from the"Best Breeders" By far,And Lacy had overcome some things.

Jake was in classed,Had a behavioralist in the Home twice a week,He had bit a neighbor,And after he would stalk people he turned on me,He lunged at me we are not sure why But these things do happen,This dog needs something another chance and if not given you will have to live with the desicion you made for the rest of your life,My SIL does everyday she says "what if" Do you want to have to ask yourself that question everyday? I know i wouldnt.

I am very puzzled to this i dont have enough answers,I Just dont think Chad is stable enough,If you have to move do it,Atleast you know your animals will be safe,I dont care who you are on medication you do thinks withought thinking..

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Originally Posted by luvofallhorses

I am sorry I didn't know that.. :o but thanks for informing me.

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No worries, I haven't heard of this programme outside of the THS before either :) Just thought i'd post the link that might hopefully clear up why both dogs were more than just adopted together :)

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Originally Posted by Muddy4paws

This thread was always going to cause a stir and I dont think im alone in thinking this but most of kings threads do.

I think biggles has a chance but not with king. I'm sorry but I dont think you are experienced enough for a dog like this and I think the shelter done a crap job when it come to rehoming these 2 dogs.

If the vet suggests a behaviourists are you willing to work with them?

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Thats because I only start threads I don't know what to do or feel like **** about.. Why post about something I already know? I'm not into chatting up a storm on the forums, I use it more as a resouce when I need it. I'm not into playing or starting games, so ya.. all my posts are gonna be about things I need help on or feel like **** about... I was already reemed about asking for help the other day, so at least that can't start up in this thread...

We didn't want an agressive dog! We made that quite clear!!! Actually we made that very clear & turned down some dogs they showed us, as they were a little agressive & we wanted NO agression. Chewing, messing, not knowing sit, come or stay, was 100% fine with us... but it was 100% NO to agression!! We're VERY angry at the shelter & at the old owners for this... We thought we were getting dogs with issues we could handle & work on. All other issues we handled.. I came here to get advice, so I could try more then 1 thing with the dogs. As some things work for 1 dog & don't for another (why its sooo important to have a plan A. B. C. & D.)...


This isn't easy on us.. Chad has called me several times in tears. As Mr. Biggles is barking & its upsetting Chad pretty bad. He keeps leaving the house all stressed out... Bear has already gone on 6 walks with Chad, & its only 2pm.. Shes getting pooped out, but he has no wheres else to go, as hes living in fear of mr. Biggles getting loose & Attacking him again.

How on earth is keeping Mr. Biggles fair to Chad? He was just attacked for nothing & is pretty much still trapped with the dog.

I'm sorry but sometimes people have to come first. If I could rehome Mr. Biggles into a special group that deals with agressive dogs, then ya I'd do it as he is a sweety (when hes not trying to rip your arm off)... but I can't... There are no other choices...

I don't really have too much to say on the matter, I've had a scan through the thread but I've not taken a lot in as I'm a bit tired tonight, so excuse me if I've missed a few key points.

What I do have to say though is this whole thread makes me very, VERY sad. If I cast my mind back I can remember another similar thread about an animal being put down that king2005 posted. I really hope that this situation is resolved in the best way possible for all involved.

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Originally Posted by king2005

Thats because I only start threads I don't know what to do or feel like shit about.. Why post about something I already know? I'm not into chatting up a storm on the forums, I use it more as a resouce when I need it. I'm not into playing or starting games, so ya.. all my posts are gonna be about things I need help on or feel like shit about... I was already reemed about asking for help the other day, so at least that can't start up in this thread...

We didn't want an agressive dog! We made that quite clear!!! Actually we made that very clear & turned down some dogs they showed us, as they were a little agressive & we wanted NO agression. Chewing, messing, not knowing sit, come or stay, was 100% fine with us... but it was 100% NO to agression!! We're VERY pissed at the shelter & at the old owners for this... We thought we were getting dogs with issues we could handle & work on. All other issues we handled.. I came here to get advice, so I could try more then 1 thing with the dogs. As some things work for 1 dog & don't for another (why its sooo important to have a plan A. B. C. & D.)...


This isn't easy on us.. Chad has called me several times in tears. As Mr. Biggles is barking & its upsetting Chad pretty bad. He keeps leaving the house all stressed out... Bear has already gone on 6 walks with Chad, & its only 2pm.. Shes getting pooped out, but he has no wheres else to go, as hes living in fear of mr. Biggles getting loose & Attacking him again.

How on earth is keeping Mr. Biggles fair to Chad? He was just attacked for nothing & is pretty much still trapped with the dog.

I'm sorry but sometimes people have to come first. If I could rehome Mr. Biggles into a special group that deals with agressive dogs, then ya I'd do it as he is a sweety (when hes not trying to rip your arm off)... but I can't... There are no other choices...

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Ok you didn't want an aggressive dog,What was your first clue when you were notified that the dogs have been brought back numerous times?

Just my 2 cents.....

When a dog has a problem, ANY problem no matter what the problem is, introducing a shock collar like you did to try to change the barking behavior can make a small problem big or can create other problems.

I don't know when you started using it, when the first bite happened, how often the collar was used, how long it was kept on, what setting it was on. It doesn’t matter; maybe the shock collar triggered something, maybe something from his past.

This entire thing is sad... from the second you adopted them it's been one thing after another, and it's obviously been more than you 2 can handle.
I hope and pray that if you ever think about adopting again you'll think VERY long and hard about it before getting in over your head like you did to yourself here.

I pray for Mr. Biggles and I hope if he does make the trip to RB that it will be peaceful. I pray for Bear and her quality of life.

I hope you and Chad find a way to become mentally stable for one another and find a way to survive in a healthy environment together and I pray you don't get any other dogs.

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Originally Posted by elizabethann

Mr. Biggles is a senior? I didn't know that. I've been trying to keep up with the posts and it's hard to do. King2005, do you think Mr. Biggles has problems with his eye sight? So when Chad opened the door, Mr. Biggles just freaked because he couldn't see very well? You may want to ask your vet about that. However, I'm not sure what they can do to help him if it was his eye sight.

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I asked about his health when we adopted him (he was with the vet the day before getting a check up), & he was in fab. health for an old guy.. ok his teeth were gonan need a cleaning soon, but that was it.

Mr. Biggles has 20/20.. he can see a tiny dim light & chase it all over the place at a really fast pace! He can hear too well aswell.. I cannot sneek around the house without him hearing me... I'm quiet as a mouse, to the point he guys have no idea where I am 1/2 the time.. but Mr. Biggles hears me everytime & would run up to me wanting to be picked up & ruining my cover.

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Originally Posted by Lori Jordan

Ok you didn't want an aggressive dog,What was your first clue when you were notified that the dogs have been brought back numerous times?

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We were told they were returned because it was too hard to medicate bear.

Which is total BS!! She has never missed a pill or wasted one... She takes them like a champ, with a little help from a 1cm long french fry twice a day.

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Originally Posted by Miss Z

I don't really have too much to say on the matter, I've had a scan through the thread but I've not taken a lot in as I'm a bit tired tonight, so excuse me if I've missed a few key points.

What I do have to say though is this whole thread makes me very, VERY sad. If I cast my mind back I can remember another similar thread about an animal being put down that king2005 posted. I really hope that this situation is resolved in the best way possible for all involved.

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If this is the rat I'm thinking about, he was ill. Yes the treatment could work, but in my past exp. my rats ended up suffering far longer then feeling good. So how is having a pet put down due to an illness thats causing them pain & weakness a bad thing how?

You also for got to mention that I didn't own him

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Originally Posted by king2005

If this is the rat I'm thinking about, he was ill. Yes the treatment could work, but in my past exp. my rats ended up suffering far longer then feeling good. So how is having a pet put down due to an illness thats causing them pain & weakness a bad thing how?

You also for got to mention that I didn't own him

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I'm not going to go through the whole rat thread all over again. That got me and many others very upset and you know it. I don't seem to recall you ever mentioning he wasn't yours, perhaps I did indeed miss that, but anyway, where I come from at least, you can not legally put a pet down without the owner's consent.

I just hope that this time Mr. Biggles is luckier than Grissim.

And please stop trying to spy on us all on gabbly. If you really feel that this forum isn't right for you, then that's entirely your decision and no-one will interfere with that.

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Originally Posted by Lori Jordan

It was a puppy for god sake!It actually was New York Animal Precingt

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New York Animal Precinct (ASPCA) - 8 million people, 5 million animals, says so right in their introduction to the show.

According to their website ...

14 uniformed and plainclothes officers investigate more than 4,000 cases per year.

In 2000, over 33,000 calls and inquiries were received by HLE (Humane Law Enforcement) of which 4,262 were cruelty complaints for investigation. There were 55 arrests made, 30 summonses issued and 537 animals seized.


According to the ASPCA website...

No government institution or animal organization is responsible for tabulating national statistics for the animal protection movement.


Approximately 8 million to 12 million companion animals enter animal shelters nationwide every year, and approximately 5 million to 9 million are euthanized (60 percent of dogs and 70 percent of cats). Shelter intakes are about evenly divided between those animals relinquished by owners and those picked up by animal control. These are national estimates; the percentage of euthanasia may vary from state to state.


More than 20 percent of people who leave dogs in shelters adopted them from a shelter. (Source: NCPPSP)

Five out of ten dogs in shelters and seven out of ten cats in shelters are destroyed simply because there is no one to adopt them.


According to ASPCA of New York also...

New York

Regulating Authority/Agency (for municipal animal shelters; for private shelters)
State Commissioner of Agriculture and Markets. See N.Y. Agric. & Mkts. § 108 (1999)

Adoption Procedures
- 1. The legislature finds that the uncontrolled breeding of dogs and cats in the state results in an overabundance of puppies and kittens. More puppies and kittens are produced than responsible homes for them can be provided. This leads to many of such animals becoming stray and suffering privation and death, being impounded and destroyed at great expense to the community and constituting a public nuisance and health hazard. It is therefore declared to be the public policy of New York state that every feasible humane means of reducing the production of unwanted puppies and kittens be encouraged.



Puppy or not, do you want to be the one to let one or more of those 537 animals stay in homes of neglect and abuse because their isn't the money or cage space available because of one agressive dog that may or may not be adoptable?

Jess i have not read all the posts here, but obviously you have to expect some emotive responses, from a pet site, I understand what you are saying and I am not going to judge you, as i realise what a difficult decision you are making here, the only problem i have is your statement, "he is getting PTS and that's that,"it's like you are not even taking into consideration anything anyone has said, admittingly you did not ask for advice, but of course here on PT that is what you will get, and sometimes it is excellent advice, i feel sorry for the situation in hand ,just wish you had not made your mind up, and was so determined there was no other solution,anyhow having said all that, i guess what has to be done will be, i hope Biggles has a safe trip to the Bridge and you are ok with your decision. good luck.

Jess I am asking you as a friend can you please at least consider some of the options given to you here,of course none of us are walking in your shoes right now, and i really do feel for you,but please try and give biggles a chance,i think even you will feel much better for doing so,but it is entirely your call of course and i respect that,even if it makes me extremely sad, you have to do what you think is best.

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Originally Posted by Miss Z

And please stop trying to spy on us all on gabbly. If you really feel that this forum isn't right for you, then that's entirely your decision and no-one will interfere with that.

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Not trying to change the subject...but what is gabbly? :o

EDIT: nevermind, I saw the link in general...duh! In any case, I am fairly certain that Jess was not spying on you, as I was chatting with her a bit today.

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Originally Posted by carole

Jess i have not read all the posts here, but obviously you have to expect some emotive responses, from a pet site, I understand what you are saying and I am not going to judge you, as i realise what a difficult decision you are making here, the only problem i have is your statement, "he is getting PTS and that's that,"it's like you are not even taking into consideration anything anyone has said, admittingly you did not ask for advice, but of course here on PT that is what you will get, and sometimes it is excellent advice, i feel sorry for the situation in hand ,just wish you had not made your mind up, and was so determined there was no other solution,anyhow having said all that, i guess what has to be done will be, i hope Biggles has a safe trip to the Bridge and you are ok with your decision. good luck.

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I said that in a stupid way, I don't think i explained all my options in detail when I typed that(I'm not going back to check, I'll just admit I more then likey didn't explain myself first).. that was purely MY fault there... But having him PTS is my only option & the only option, unless I want to have Bear PTS too for Mr. Biggles actions, which i don't!!!