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<<-- sends pops a big ole kiss
I know this is off topic, A New Zealander was just killed in Iraq, he was doing a job there, re-building the country , he was an engineer, can we just spare a thought for his family right now, I know he is one of many, his car was ambushed, he along with two other men were killed, their car riveted with bullets.
And PCB I hear ya, and I agree with you too.!!
:o :p He he heQuote:
Originally posted by 2kitties
<<-- sends pops a big ole kiss
It's not off topic.Quote:
Originally posted by carole
I know this is off topic, A New Zealander was just killed in Iraq, he was doing a job there, re-building the country
It a sign that he thought enough of other people to take a chance and make someone else's world a bit better.
God bless him and his family.
I just heard the last 37 seconds of the videotape.
God bless the people who killed that man.
There can only be forgiveness for people who have no souls.
Amen Richard. The insane depravity of this execution makes me sick to my stomach. May God be with his family and help them through this. What a horrid thing to see that video knowing it was his last and what was to follow. It's hard to imagine hatred running that deep. Scares the cr@p out of me for the future of this world. :( :( :(Quote:
Originally posted by RICHARD
I tried to post the Nick Berg story earlier.
You know, I was pretty disgusted with the photos from the Iraqi prison, that showed all of humanity sinking to new depths...But to make a video tape of an execution like that shows why the whole world has to band together to stop this kind of madness...
One American soldier's videp diary will be shown/discussed on
the next 60 Minutes II program next week.The woman soldier
talks about her feelings in being inside the prison.....
By Giles Elgood
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - An American soldier's video diary showing her disdain for Iraqi detainees who died in her charge is to be broadcast by a U.S. network on Wednesday in a further escalation of the prisoner abuse scandal that has shaken the Bush administration and provoked world outrage.
CBS, which two weeks ago broadcast the first pictures of Iraqi prisoners being abused in Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, said on Tuesday its "60 Minutes II" program would show video footage depicting conditions there and at another U.S.-run prison in southern Iraq (news - web sites) called Camp Bucca.
Photographs of Iraqi prisoners being sexually humiliated, threatened by dogs and piled into pyramids as grinning American soldiers look on have been published round the world, dealing a major setback to U.S. attempts to stabilize Iraq.
The Pentagon (news - web sites) has said that it has more pictures and video of abuse that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has warned may be even more shocking.
An Islamic Web site said on Tuesday that an American civilian, Nick Berg from Philadelphia, had been beheaded by an al Qaeda leader in Iraq in revenge for the "Satanic degradation" of Iraqi prisoners.
CBS said the home video did not show scenes of abuse but included comments by the soldier, whose name was not revealed to protect her identity, that make clear her dislike for the camp and the prisoners under her control.
"I hate it here," she said on the tape. "I want to come home. I want to be a civilian again. We actually shot two prisoners today. One got shot in the chest for swinging a pole against our people on the feed team. One got shot in the arm. We don't know if the one we shot in the chest is dead yet."
In her video, the soldier described the hazards of Camp Bucca. "This is a sand viper," she said. "One bite will kill you in six hours. We've already had two prisoners die of it, but who cares? That's two less for me to worry about."
The soldier said about three prisoners broke out of the camp every week, but they did not try to escape when she was on duty.
"It's 'cause they are scared of me," she said. "I actually got in trouble the other day because I was throwing rocks at them."
CBS said another soldier spoke of a chaotic situation at Camp Bucca with a dangerously low ratio of guards to prisoners.
Tim Canjar, who was discharged from the military for abusing Iraqi prisoners, said that during one disturbance "at one point, it was me and another soldier guarding. I was watching 535 prisoners on my side ... The prisoners started hitting us."
Fellow soldier Lisa Girman, who was discharged with Canjar, said commanders ignored the problems at Camp Bucca.
She complained of "the ignorance of the chain of command not to listen to the person who was actually on the front line."
Girman's and Canjar's families tried to draw attention to the problems at Camp Bucca last year. They called Rumsfeld's office repeatedly and talked to his staff, but got no response, CBS said. Their letters to the White House and two senators were also unanswered.
Girman and Canjar, and a third soldier, Scott McKenzie, were discharged for punching and kicking Iraqi prisoners. They have vowed to appeal the decision and want the U.S. Congress to investigate.
Quote:
Originally posted by lizbud
Photographs of Iraqi prisoners being sexually humiliated, threatened by dogs and piled into pyramids as grinning American soldiers look on have been published round the world, dealing a major setback to U.S. attempts to stabilize Iraq.
Listen to Nick Berg scream with his last breath.... and listen to the chant of his executioners, calling that their god is great.
I hope that anyone who hears it remembers it for a long time..
And I hope it rallies all the muslims to denounce that kind of horror....
From among that din you'd think that some decent, humane voice would rise above the others...
I hope the backlash from this tape is a rallying cry for all humanity to stop this nonsense....They really think showing a man having his head taken off his body helps their case??
I should think not.
Two wrongs don't make a right.....but the silence afterwards is just as damning.
And before I forget....
The media in the US has shown those photos time after time.
To support the troops now is to put this into perspective-they ain't all like that.
Sometimes chipping away at the few bad ones, paints everyone else in that same color...
We effed up.....
And it makes no sense to keep beating our breasts trying to atone for the sins of the few......Those few painted all Americans
for the planet. Uninformed people will believe that we are all like that.
We are sorry.
And while we wait for Uncle Sam to lose the black eye, some punks dress up and cuts the head off of a person who wasn't even in the fight.
It shows me a lot.
While we put a face to our 'bad guys' the bad guys on the other side hide under ski masks and some headbands. They pick the 'toughest guy' out of the crowd for the execution-all the while screaming to their god that he is good.
Morons can't even figure out that any god would look at them, shake his head and toss them out of the joint.
We all fear what we can't put a face to, but in the end what does it matter? Evil only wins for a little while, and they know it.
Why not take on the Army, the Marines??
Nope, they pick on some young man trying to help the Iraqi people out and most of arab world can't grasp that...They side with the people that have kept then poor, isolated and in fear.
I once saw a picture of the earth from space, it showed the cities
at night. Patches of light all across the globe....until you hit the Middle East..The caption on the picture made a mention of that fact.
It makes it easier to accept the stories coming out of that area.
And I thought about what the people there feared more-
the darkness - or the men who have kept the light from reaching them.
-----------------------------------
There was 535 prisoners, they began to hit us.
So that entitled us to bag their heads, dog pile them naked and
pull all kinds of other stunts like that.....Why we even took pictures!
The same pictures that the media shows us over and over....
And when the wound stops bleeding let's take the bandage off and poke it some more-we haven't bled enough.
Isn't blood the all purpose cleanser in the world......
An eye for an eye..:rolleyes:
<<gets into bed with Richard.
I'm never in the doghouse! I do occasionaly come and read through as I find everyones differing opinions very interesting. I feel like I had no choice today as this horrific beheading has me terribly upset.
I have a stepson in Iraq who is in the Army and doing his service on a tank. He is stationed in Baghdad but was sent into Fallujah(sp) when all the trouble broke out. We currently have no idea where he is. We know that he is alive somewhere since the dreaded telegram or phone call has not come. I also have a brother is who is a police officer that has recently sent in his resume to go to Iraq to help with security. He is feeling so distraught and useless here watching it all on TV that he thinks he can maybe do something to help if he where actually there. My husband is a Vietnam Veteran who is sick over this whole thing but chomping at the bit to go do something to help the young soldiers. He feels that those who have served and understand this type of warfare can be helpful. He is too old now but the stress of his son and the memories of a similar war are really taking a toll on him.
My original views about us going to Iraq raised many questions but I will always support our troops 150%. After the recent outbreaks of American hostages and now this sickening beheading I think we should pull out lock stock and barrel!
Here is why I feel that way... I am a very reasonable person and I know that the Iraqi people have been severly oppressed and were in need of help. I believe that every nation should have stood up and put a stop to Saddam long ago. It was a Crimes Against Humanity issue for the last thirty years! But they didn't and we went in to end their oppression and stop terrorism. Ok, now we are there. We have Saddam, helped build a new government, working on restoring all basic needs, and generally trying to rebuild everything for them before we leave.
Now we have threats, hostage taking, RPG's killing drivers, and now a beheading. Until the Iraqi people stand together and say that this is wrong, we don't approve, and we will punish you for your crimes, then it will never change. I don't foresee any of the Middle East countries ever actually doing anything about the tactics of terrororism. If their own people won't make a stand then there is no way we can stop it. They don't like us and the majority hate us. I don't think anything we can do will ever make that stop.
So, because of our STUPID MEDIA we now have more pissed off terrorists with an excuse! The United States is being judged by the actions of a few very wrong soldiers. What if we viewed all of Iraq like their few stupid terrorists? We would wipe them off the face of the earth with just a small supply of our very powerful weapons!!! A couple of Daisy bombs and we could all go home!!!!!!!!!
I am so angry over these deaths and threats and that there is not a rise from the "Innocent Iraqi" people saying that this has to stop!! Where are the powerful Clerics??? They have so much power and yet all they say is that is not the right way and you don't hear anything more from them. Everything that I have ever learned about the Muslim religion has been a very beautiful thing. This crap that is going on has nothing whatsoever to do with religion or Allah or God or Muhammed!!! They scream "Holy War" and that makes it all ok because its done in the name of religion. BULL CRAP! They are mean, nasty, blood thirsty terrorists that are jealous of our American lives and the freedom we have!!!
If the people can't come together and help us help them then I say enough is enough and Adios Amigos!!!
I am also upset that this MURDER is not the latest talk at work! Has this become so common place that we just tend to let it go now?! I seem to be the only one that wants to discuss it. GEESH!
Ok, I know I don't have the answers to everything and I'm sure I would not handle any of it in the right way but it sure felt good to say(write) it and get it off of my chest!!!
May God Bless all of our troops and help ease the pain of the faimilies who have lost people. May a special blessing go to the family of the latest victim because they will have an image of this innocents death that hopefully none of us will ever have to know.
taken from USA Today:
"Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn, said that the military's investigations into the misconduct could be an opportunity to demonstrate the difference between the United States and Islamic terrorists. "There will be no al-Qaeda apologies," Lieberman said of the beheading."
Mr. Lieberman did not get my vote for VP. But sometimes, I really think he speaks from a thoughtful place. He's a very intelligent man who I think is a good official.
I think you are right on regarding Joe Lieberman, 2Kitties. OMG! I have agreed with you again!!! :eek:
In all seriousness, of all the Democratic candidates we saw earlier in the year, he is the one that was the most level headed and concerned.
I agree and I know we can't pull out now. It's nice to wish for though. I think my biggest problem is that I don't have much tolerence for weakness. Now don't misunderstand because we all have weaknesses, that is part of human nature, but enough is enough!!! The majority of them are willing to die for what they believe in so in my opinion they need to GET UP AND START HELPING OUT THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO HELP THEM!!! If they don't want our help then, FINE! If they think they were oppressed before wait until the Taliban and AlQueda(sp) come in and take over the country! There comes a time when you have to grow up, put up, and if you choose to SHUT UP then accept the consequences!Quote:
Perhaps this is why the people in the middle east cannot speak up - living in the dark of fear all their lives??? I dunno....
I'm sorry but I'm so upset about this whole thing!!!
Of course I sit here and talk about pulling out and if Kerry gets in and does such a thing I would be having a fit!!!
I know we can't leave them yet but I think there should be some ultimatums or something to get the Iraqi people to stop letting us handle everything!They would have far more pride in their country if they helped reshape it. It obviously isn't fear holding them back because they sure can gather a crowd to throw rocks at the troops and yell anti-american crap! Flag burning really brings out the power in them, don't you think? We keep wanting to see these poor weak Iraqi's but I see some pretty powerful ones on the news! Imagine if the fury that Americans seem to ignite in them were turned against terrorists? There would be no need for us ever worry again.
I also agree with that statement but it is time for the people to start redirecting the young and radical to something more constructive. The peaceful citizens need to stop crouching quietly and get up, make some noise, and make a difference!Quote:
Those creeps we see are largely young people with nothing better to do - smug and radical - the peaceful citizens more than likely crouching quietly in their homes.
I agree with everything you have said Sirrahbed but I'm not as patient or as tolerant as you. I will hold out for so long but then thats it. I don't want to flatten the whole place but I do want the Iraqi's to start standing beside us as we fight for them! I don't even care if they stand behind us! I just want them to stop crouching and get up and stand somewhere!!!!