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Quote:
Originally posted by Soledad
Is a fertilized chicken egg a chick?
Duh, of course not Soledad! A fertilized chicken egg is a BABY! Good gosh. He he he...that is a perfect answer....I will have to incorporate that in my argument with the pro-lifers....
Oh okay. Maybe you're right. Thanks for explaining it. ;)Quote:
Originally posted by pit chic
"I have to object to your comparison of an omelette to fried chicken, as opposed to Soledad's egg to a chicken."
I could be wrong but I think the comparisson of the omelette and fried chicken was supposed to be that you aren't killing a chicken by making an omelette, but you are killing a chicken to fry it. Just like you aren't killing a baby by taking the morning after pill because at that point it is still an egg cell, not a baby.
egg cell + morning after pill = omelette (no harm done)
fetus/embryo + abortion = fried chicken (harm done)
Sorry if this equation appears to be callus, that wasn't the intention, just trying to make sense of the chicken/egg confusion.
Exactly. Thank you for saying it better than I did.Quote:
Originally posted by pit chic
"I have to object to your comparison of an omelette to fried chicken, as opposed to Soledad's egg to a chicken."
I could be wrong but I think the comparisson of the omelette and fried chicken was supposed to be that you aren't killing a chicken by making an omelette, but you are killing a chicken to fry it. Just like you aren't killing a baby by taking the morning after pill because at that point it is still an egg cell, not a baby.
egg cell + morning after pill = omelette (no harm done)
fetus/embryo + abortion = fried chicken (harm done)
Sorry if this equation appears to be callus, that wasn't the intention, just trying to make sense of the chicken/egg confusion.
LOL ... true. Although if my dogs had their way, they would be frying chicken and making omelettes with their own little paws everyday. ;)Quote:
A chicken, on the other hand, is unlikely to become an omelette or fried chicken without human intervention,
Okay, I had eggs yesterday and now I don't knoew if I had chicken, egg, yolk, fetus, baby or what! And then the whole analogy thing just got my post holiday drinking brain way out of whack!!! So confused.Quote:
Originally posted by Cataholic
Duh, of course not Soledad! A fertilized chicken egg is a BABY! Good gosh. He he he...that is a perfect answer....I will have to incorporate that in my argument with the pro-lifers....
Quote:
Originally posted by 2kitties
Okay, I had eggs yesterday and now I don't knoew if I had chicken, egg, yolk, fetus, baby or what! And then the whole analogy thing just got my post holiday drinking brain way out of whack!!! So confused.
Me thinks you needed a little sausage...:p
Me thinks if I will have a sausage, it will not be a little one.:p
*snort*Quote:
Originally posted by 2kitties
Me thinks if I will have a sausage, it will not be a little one.:p
Watch out now, don't go there. We'll all get in trouble again for being naughty. :rolleyes:
lol..you guys are too funny:D
I read this thread with interest. This one is all-female, and I am folowing an all-male "Abortion is a Woman's Right. Period!" thread on another board.
Most of the debate about abortion over there can be divided by positions on "when life begins." There is actually a percentage that do take a fertilized egg to be "potential human life"; probably the same people who view stem cell research to be abortion (even though the waste products of fertility clinics have no chance to become babies).
Then there are those who say life starts with detectable brain function and heartbeat.
Then there are those who use 14 weeks as the cut-off, because this is what the "partial birth abortion" law that was just signed says. Do you all know that abortions after then are now illegal?
Most say the third trimester should be the cut-off for abortion, though preemies rarely live unless they are at least 8 mo when delivered.
Perhaps advances in technology will shift these lines; test-tube life support, implantation in animals, whatever. Anyway, the morning-after option prevents implantation, so is no different than IUDs, failed In-Vitro, or the fertilized eggs that don't implant for couples that are trying to get pregnant. No one accuses them of having abortions.
And now I'll shut up!!
After Mahayana made the last post, I started doubting that he got it right. Surely the 14 weeks meant before term and not 3 months, 2 weeks pregnant??? So I had him go back and check. The following is what he had read. The author is given credit, so I think this is OK to put this here.
Personally I have mixed feelings. I consider babies to be gifts from God and I also am a lifelong feminist (supporter of womens' rights). Anyway, judge for yourselves.
Quote:
OK women, it's time to wake up. With the signing into law of the ban on late term abortions, we are threatened for the first time in 30 years with the loss of our right to reproductive choice. I can hear many of you poo-pooing this idea - after all, the bill only says that late term abortions are illegal. Well, "late term" means anything after 14 weeks, according to the language of the law, but that isn't even the major problem, to my mind. The major problem is that we are regressing back to a time when women and their doctors were not allowed to make medical decisions simply because of someone else's morality. This law does not advance tolerance and humanity in this country - in fact, it does just the opposite. This law legalizes forced pregnancy.
Yes, that's right, I used the term forced pregnancy. What else can you call it when a woman - for whatever reason - does not decide until week 14 of her pregnancy that she needs to have that pregnancy terminated and the government steps in and says "Sorry, ma'am. You had that choice for 13 weeks, but now you have to haveto give birth to this baby." That is forced pregnancy.
And the worst part is the proverbial slippery slope. How long till someone gets the idea (as if they haven't already) that abortion at 12 weeks is immoral? What about 4 weeks? Some of us get erratic periods - we may not even know we're pregnant until this hypopthetical timeline has passed.
Supporters of the law say that it is never medically necessary to provide a woman with an abortion after the second trimester. Remember when your mother used to say "Never say never"? There was a good reson for that then, and there is a good reason to doubt it's truthfulness now. Besides the fact that health and even life threatening conditions can arise at any time during pregnancy, and some conditions effecting the viability of the fetus cannot even be diagnosed until major organs start to form which is, you guessed it - in the second trimester, there is always the possibility of unforseen circumstances. What if the mother is in a car accident, or shot? What if she is exposed to anthrax or another biological agent in her second trimester? You got it. The Bush administration says "Too bad. You cannot receive the medical procedure you need to survive." End of story.
Now, if you don't believe any modern U.S. administration would seriously consider taking away a woman's right to choose early term abortions, check out this link
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1105/p07s02-woaf.html
and you can read about how poor people in other countries are already suffering at the hands of these unfeeling patriarchs.
Wake up, women. Realize that the rights we take for granted can be taken away. We're not even fortunate enough to be on a slippery slope - we're dangling over the edge of a cliff, held up only by the slight margin of one Supreme Court Justice. Whether or not you believe abortion is moral, surely you must admit that giving away any right to control our own bodies is a mistake. If you oppose abortion, work to encourage the government to develop safe birth control. If you oppose birth control, work to change the hearts and minds of people having sex. But if you support the reelection of the most adamantly anti-abortion president in modern time, you will be supporting forced pregnancy, and it will be our daughter's who pay the price.
Faer Lee Balan
This woman needs to wake up herself and realize that at some point a woman needs to step up and be a woman. It is insulting to MY feminism to believe I am unable to take responsiblity for my body and my choices within the first 14 weeks. I had 14 weeks for goodness' sake. Women, we are not so stupid we can't make a decision in 14 weeks. After that, I have no problem considering the rights of the other person sharing my body. That's right- sharing my body. I have rights to my body, but at 14 weeks, I am quite certain I'm sharing with with another human being.
Absolutely! If you are pregnant, it does NOT take fourteen weeks to figure it out. More like two or three weeks. And if you don't want to have a baby, that also shouldn't take fourteen weeks to figure out. More like twenty four hours, eh? Make the choice, take care of it, and do it quickly. Just MHO.Quote:
Originally posted by 2kitties
This woman needs to wake up herself and realize that at some point a woman needs to step up and be a woman. It is insulting to MY feminism to believe I am unable to take responsiblity for my body and my choices within the first 14 weeks. I had 14 weeks for goodness' sake. Women, we are not so stupid we can't make a decision in 14 weeks. After that, I have no problem considering the rights of the other person sharing my body. That's right- sharing my body. I have rights to my body, but at 14 weeks, I am quite certain I'm sharing with with another human being.
People who are screaming for the right to and legality of partial birth abortions are giving all pro-choice people a bad name, IMO. Kind of like PETA giving all animal organizations a bad name with their extreme views and tactics.
I agree with you for the most part twister, cept the 2 or 3 weeks. some times it DOES take a bit longer, it can take up to four weeks for the hormones to change enough for you to miss a period... But yes, it doesn't take 14 weeks.Quote:
Originally posted by Twisterdog
Absolutely! If you are pregnant, it does NOT take fourteen weeks to figure it out. More like two or three weeks. And if you don't want to have a baby, that also shouldn't take fourteen weeks to figure out. More like twenty four hours, eh? Make the choice, take care of it, and do it quickly. Just MHO.
True, but if you have unprotected sex or condom failure you should certainly suspect there could be a pregnancy. Of course if using another form of BC, it would take longer to know that it failed.Quote:
Originally posted by babolaypo65
I agree with you for the most part twister, cept the 2 or 3 weeks. some times it DOES take a bit longer, it can take up to four weeks for the hormones to change enough for you to miss a period... But yes, it doesn't take 14 weeks.
But, wait!!
The new legislation makes no allowances for women whose lives are endangered by the pregnancy. So, if you're past 14 weeks and you are faced with dying or aborting, you can kiss yourself goodbye!
Progress??