Figure Skating

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Originally Posted by Momto4FemaleFelines

From what Scott and Sandra were saying, sounds like Johnny Weir needs a new choreographer. They said his program did not have enough transitions and difficult steps going into the jumps. I thought he should've got at least a slightly higher score.

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This might be a stupid question because I don't know anything about figure skating. But, for each jump, the skater seems to take a few beats of the music to set up the jump. He turns his body, changes his weight to one foot and bends his knee. What I don't understand is, how can the choreographer layer more difficult steps onto that, and still arrange it so the skater can prepare to jump? Do the judges allow for those few beats of preparation when they are evaluating the program?

Thanks,
elyse

Edited to add: I thought it was inappropriate for Plushenko to step up to the gold medal platform as if he wanted to show that he felt he should have won. Scott Hamilton referred to grade of execution and I don't know exactly what that means, but I could tell on a couple of the jumps that he was at a wonky angle.

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Originally Posted by cassiesmom

This might be a stupid question because I don't know anything about figure skating. But, for each jump, the skater seems to take a few beats of the music to set up the jump. He turns his body, changes his weight to one foot and bends his knee. What I don't understand is, how can the choreographer layer more difficult steps onto that, and still arrange it so the skater can prepare to jump? Do the judges allow for those few beats of preparation when they are evaluating the program?

Thanks,
elyse

Edited to add: I thought it was inappropriate for Plushenko to step up to the gold medal platform as if he wanted to show that he felt he should have won. Scott Hamilton referred to grade of execution and I don't know exactly what that means, but I could tell on a couple of the jumps that he was at a wonky angle.

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Elyse, there are no stupid questions! I still have questions and things to learn about skating even though I've listened carefully, looked at some books and a spectators guide to jumps video!
Before this new scoring system, some skaters would take this looooong glide across the ice "telegraphing" the jump...in other words they were saying with their movement "I'm going to jump when I get to that other end of the ice".
Some skaters are better than others at doing an actual skating move and then going up into a jump. Others, I imagine, can't manage any kind of footwork or difficult entrance.
What would make a jump get higher scores and be deemed more difficult, would be for the skater to do a spiral or spread Eagle or some other move or footwork and then seemingly go up into the jump "out of nowhere". Some skaters just can't do it, and some jumps you just can't do it with very well, or very fancily.
I think it's a fine line as to how many "non difficult/artistic" steps are taken between a move that makes it a difficult entrance and the actual jump. I imagine depending on the jump, the judges have to allow that the jump can't be done "out of nowhere".

Grade of execution for jumps would be things like:
Did the skater begin revolution on the blade still on the ice or begin revolution in the air?(starting revolution on the ice is cheating a jump--something that used to get missed a lot with the old scoring system, they have video and instrant replay to check for that kind of thing now)
Did the skater complete revolutions in the air or complete the revolutions on the blade on the ice after landing?(same as above, it's cheating to land and do approx. 1/4 turn or more on the ice)
Did the skater do a difficult move before jumping?
Did the skater land with good body position(back strong, legs steady, arms in a nice position, etc), without a turn out, without a foot down or a hand down?
Did the skater have a nice run out after the jump?
Basicly, the "prettier" the landing of a jump is, and if all revolutions are done completely in the air, the higher grade of execution mark it will get.
Someone said Plushenko lands like a jack-hammer...not nicely or artisticly or steadily.

Each jump also has to be done correctly for the type of jump it is. The skater has to go up from the correct edge of the blade, etc. There are 6 jumps: toe loop, loop, flip, axle, salchow and lutz. I can recognize them all EXCEPT I can't pick out a flip froma toe loop. Axle is the only jump with a forward take off and it is an edge jump, there is no picking-in with the toe of the free leg. It is a jump that has an extra 1/2 revolution to it...i.e., a single is 1 1/2 revolutions, a triple is 3 1/2 revolutions. Salchow and loop are also edge jumps, no toe picking in to launch with. Toe loop, flip and lutz are "pick" jumps, the skaters pick in their free foot to launch with.

I found this on You Tube. This is from the '84 Olympics. It is Yao Bin and his partner - he's now the coach for the Chinese national figure skating program that had some huge successes at the Olympics :) The figure skating program in China had only been in place for a couple of years and you can see them struggle -- how far things have come since then.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L_V0E0JP20

What a piece of trash -

Yevgeny Plushenko - "You can't be considered a true men's champion without a quad," the 27-year-old told Russian state television RTR.

Apparently the judges had not been notified of that . . . . .

source

I am so happy Evan won that Plushenko dude has no class.

Okay sort of a wierd question...does anyone know if Evan likes the ladies,,,just wondering because he is so hot.

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Originally Posted by caseysmom

Okay sort of a wierd question...does anyone know if Evan likes the ladies,,,just wondering because he is so hot.

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So I googled him and came up with this article.

Tanith Belbin, Nastia Luikin . . . .

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Originally Posted by Grace

So I googled him and came up with this article.

Tanith Belbin, Nastia Luikin . . . .

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So what your saying is I have to stand in line:D

That stupid Quad Jump doesn't make the whole skater, it is not the whole package, & that Russian BOY doesn't see the big picture. They might as well have a class for jack hammer quad jump dummies to please the Russians. Ugh! I grew up in the 1960's with the cold war & you know things haven't changed with the Communists. They are still trying to bury us.

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Originally Posted by cassiesmom

I found this on You Tube. This is from the '84 Olympics. It is Yao Bin and his partner - he's now the coach for the Chinese national figure skating program that had some huge successes at the Olympics :) The figure skating program in China had only been in place for a couple of years and you can see them struggle -- how far things have come since then.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L_V0E0JP20

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They showed a clip of Yao Bin skating during a break in the pairs skating. I had heard before how Yao had to teach from his limited experiences and by reading books and looking at videos. Now he takes his students to different choreographers for help and other things to aid in their learning. It's amazing how far the Chinese and Japanese skaters have come over the years.

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Originally Posted by Grace

What a piece of trash -

Yevgeny Plushenko - "You can't be considered a true men's champion without a quad," the 27-year-old told Russian state television RTR.

Apparently the judges had not been notified of that . . . . .

source

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My disdain for Plushy started years ago. His ego is ridiculous. I keep saying it, somebody needs to tell Plushy, it's called figure SKATING! He's a legend in his own mind. I'll never consider him a name to be talked about in the history of skating as a good skater or competitor. He doesn't have a complete package and he certainly doesn't have class.

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Originally Posted by Grace

So I googled him and came up with this article.

Tanith Belbin, Nastia Luikin . . . .

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I had a feeling he wasn't with Tanith anymore. Last season their relationship was covered in "fluff" pieces but I hadn't seen anything about it this season.

Well, Another night at the ice rink. I stayed awake last night & hope to tonight. Johnny made my night last night with his crown of roses. That sweet sweet boy! LOL!

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Originally Posted by Grace

What a piece of trash -

Yevgeny Plushenko - "You can't be considered a true men's champion without a quad," the 27-year-old told Russian state television RTR.

Apparently the judges had not been notified of that . . . . .

source

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I saw that on the evening news. What a sore loser! All I could think was: 'GROW UP, YOU SPOILED, WHINING CRYBABY!"

Now, now, it seems the Russian premier emailed him and told him he should have won ... everyone has their own opinion, and likely there'd be complaints no matter how the judging came out. Sour grapes ...

Figure skating has always had that push and shove between artistry and athleticism. I remember Surya Bonaly - a French figure skater who was an excellent athlete, but considered not as much of an "artist," doing an illegal backflip at the end of one event in a sort of protest in anger at the judges.

That said, I have been DVR-ing the Olympics, so avoid this thread until I have watched the previous night's stuff ... and was proud not only of Evan but of Johnny Wier, as both seemed to have skated their hearts out.

And caseysmom, given the athletic accomplishments of Mr. Lysacek's current and prior girlfriends, I don't think simply "standing" in line will do, how many spins and twists and somersaults can you manage might count!