Watching the Results...

a woman said once before she read in the bible Bush would win again because the bible has said "His destruction is not yet complete.". I'm sorry to my fellow Kerry supporters, I'm so so sorry. I was sitting here crying as well as many of you were too I'm sure. We'll survive this somehow and if the time comes we truely believe we wont, just make sure youve asked God for forgiveness for anything you regret doing in your life, and live your life now as if tomorrow wont come because with him in office again tomorrow really might not come.

Presidency goes to.....*drum roll*..........


.....George W. Bush!! :D


(am I going to get trampled for this?!?!?! :eek: :D)

sorry for the continued edits...my posts won't seem to work...:rolleyes:

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Originally posted by BCBlondie

BTW, Freedom of religion - Doesn't that mean that you have the freedom to choose your religion and to NOT have the Christian religion forced upon you? :confused:

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Did you not read anything Maresche and I said in our conversation about it?

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Originally posted by Samantha Puppy
Did you not read anything Maresche and I said in our conversation about it?

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Umm...... I guess I didn't see your posts.. :confused: Let me go back...

Edit: Okay I read it... but I still have the freedom of speech and expressing my own opinions. :p So I am not taking back what I said.

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Originally posted by RICHARD
I really long for the days when you voted, watched a little TV, went to sleep and found out who was the president was while you were standing in your driveway, reading the newspaper while you were almost naked underneath your robe......

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LOLOLOLOL,


The dog tore up this morning's newspaper!!!!
The sports section took a real beating......He doesn't like the
Lakers.:confused: :rolleyes: :mad: :eek:

Basketball already??? I can't take this!:D I'm already batting o for 2!;)

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Originally posted by tatsxxx11
Basketball already??? I can't take this!:D I'm already batting o for 2!;)

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I coached a softball team that went 0-19 before we won a game,

You have to keep playing to win!!! :)

Thanks for the pep talk, coach:D I'm gonna go by that lottery ticket right now and split it with you if I win! Maybe!:D

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Originally posted by BCBlondie
Umm...... I guess I didn't see your posts.. :confused: Let me go back...

Edit: Okay I read it... but I still have the freedom of speech and expressing my own opinions. :p So I am not taking back what I said.

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Yes, you do have freedom of speech, but you didn't express an opinion, you asked a question. I simply pointed you to a conversation between myself, a conservative Republican, and Maresche, a more liberal Democrat.

Saying this country is safer with Bush in charge is laughable.

I was scared when Bush beat Gore in 2000. And what happened? Sept. 11th.

I will not be surprised if a similar event happens within the next 4 years.

I hope it doesn't...but I won't be surprised. Has OBL been captured?


Live each day, because it just might be your last.

Pessismistic? No. Realistic.

In all fairness, congrats to you Mr. Bush. I hope you have learned from your past mistakes and put it towards making the next 4 years better than the last. Try not to %$@# it up anymore than it is.

But who am I kidding?

The urge to move is great, but this pagan liberal is staying put to try and fight for her rights.


And as an addum.... I have no problems with the idea of after school religious 'study' groups. None at all. I think a group of Christians should be able to have a Bible study after school same as a Pagan group should be allowed a circle ceremony.

But the fact of the matter is only one would be viewed by society as being allowed. It's either one way or another.

That is why there is seperation of church and state.

Should religion be taught during school hours? NO. Because America is full of diverse cultures and forcing one upon all is wrong.

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Should religion be taught during school hours? NO. Because America is full of diverse cultures and forcing one upon all is wrong.

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I am a Christian and I agree with that statement wholeheartedly.

Thank you for stating it.

Following your train of thought, Clinton is a horrible President for letting the first attack of the WTC in 1993 happen. :rolleyes:

You cannot blame 9/11 on Bush. He was in office EIGHT MONTHS when it happened - that was not enough time to start pumping all the funding Clinton cut from the military (including localized, like the police) and intelligence back into it and building it back up. bin Laden and his boys had been planning this attack for years.

You cannot place the blame on any one person. 9/11 happened because of evil extremists who hate our way of life.

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Originally posted by jazzzytina
I am a Christian and I agree with that statement wholeheartedly.

Thank you for stating it.

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So why is it right to teach the "athiest religion" in schools and no other religion?? (that being evolution and the big bang theory) Why not teach the diversity of all religions and how they believe the world came about?

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Originally posted by Sara luvs her Tinky
So why is it right to teach the "athiest religion" in schools and no other religion?? (that being evolution and the big bang theory) Why not teach the diversity of all religions and how they believe the world came about?

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I believe this is okay because evolution and the big bang theory are generally not considered religion at all, but science instead. In religion classes, at least the ones I had in high school a decade or so ago, all theories of creation were taught but not in science class with evolution and big bang. Honestly, I don't seem them as being the same thing. Teaching creationism in science class along with photosynthesis and dna makes a much sense to me as talking about cooking in a math class, loosely related but not really.

I do think religion should be part of every child's education whether through public school (teaching them all) or at home.

I understand where you are coming from to some extent though and feel that is why parents should take a more active role in their child's education, to make sure they learn everything their parents what them to.

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Originally posted by Maresche
I believe this is okay because evolution and the big bang theory are generally not considered religion at all, but science instead. In religion classes, at least the ones I had in high school a decade or so ago, all theories of creation were taught but not in science class with evolution and big bang. Honestly, I don't seem them as being the same thing. Teaching creationism in science class along with photosynthesis and dna makes a much sense to me as talking about cooking in a math class, loosely related but not really.

I understand where you are coming from to some extent though and feel that is why parents should take a more active role in their child's education, to make sure they learn everything their parents what them to.

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very well said..:)
Only college professors don't take the matter so lightly... they push it as religion. My brother-in-law almost lost his faith from a college course teaching evolution.

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Why not teach the diversity of all religions and how they believe the world came about?

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I personally think that would be fine to teach. I just don't think that one religion should be taught over another because we are all different, and as Americans are guaranteed freedom of (or from) religion.

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Originally posted by dukedogsmom
This is precisely one of the many reasons I didn't want him re-elected. Not to mention the issues with oil and wildlife.

«President Bush has announced his plan to select Dr. W. David Hager to head up the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee. Hager is a practicing obstetrician-gynecologist, and sources told Time magazine that in his private practice he will not prescribe contraceptives to unmarried women. He is also the author of a book
which suggests that women who suffer from premenstrual syndrome should seek help from reading the bible and praying.
The Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee is responsible for offering expert scientific and medical advice to the FDA on matters relating to drugs used in the practice of obstetrics, gynecology, and related specialties. The committee's responsibilities include all contraceptive drugs and drugs used in performing medical abortion as well as drugs used for infertility treatments, hormone replacement therapy and labor and delivery.»

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Scary. If this was pushed hard enough, I wouldn't be allowed to take birth control for treating my Endometriosis. eeks!

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Originally posted by Sara luvs her Tinky
very well said..:)
Only college professors don't take the matter so lightly... they push it as religion. My brother-in-law almost lost his faith from a college course teaching evolution.

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That's not right. To me it's not a religion. It's just science. :)

I'd have no problems if all religions were teached, but someone, somewhere would have a problem with that.

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Originally posted by Sara luvs her Tinky
Only college professors don't take the matter so lightly... they push it as religion. My brother-in-law almost lost his faith from a college course teaching evolution.

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I'm sorry to hear that. I hope your brother is feeling more confident about things now.

I don't like it when anyone pushes with a "my way or the highway" mentality. This world is not so simple, not black and white.

But I also feel that college is a whole other experience. By school I was meaning public school up until high school. In college, I am of the mind set that classes are supposed to challenge the way you think (not to the extent that your brother experienced it though) so that you are prepared to work, think and function in a world where everything isn't black and white.

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Originally posted by Samantha Puppy

I was asked to cover up my little 1" crucifix yesterday when going into a school to vote.

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I'm very sorry that happened, BUT....I've had so much flak for wearing my 1 1/2" pentacle, you wouldn't believe....I do NOT flaunt or bring attention to it, but people will approach me and inform me that this beautiful symbol of life and my faith is satanic and evil. WTFlip?! One person even had the nerve to RIP IT OFF OF ME! :mad:

How long have pagans had to suffer things like that silently? Is it unfair to ask someone to cover a crucifix? Certainly. But remember that people of other faiths have been dealing with similar, and much worse, prosecution for years.

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Originally posted by Maresche

Christianity surrounds us everyday of our lives in this country. Around Christmas and Easter time, you cannot walk into any store without seeing Christmas trees or Easter eggs. (True, this really has a lot to do with the commercialization of our country), but my point is, this is done for Christian holidays, not Yom Kippur or Ramadan.

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Actually, Easter eggs were originally a pagan tradition from the spring festival, Ostara. Christmas and Easter are both adaptations of pagan holidays that the Christians stole to make it easier to convert pagans in the old days. :)

Hallowe'en = Samhain
May Day = Beltane

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Originally posted by WolfChan
Actually, Easter eggs were originally a pagan tradition from the spring festival, Ostara. Christmas and Easter are both adaptations of pagan holidays that the Christians stole to make it easier to convert pagans in the old days. :)

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Actually I did know that. I only used them as examples because they are some of the more common symbols and most associate them with Christianity than with pagan traditions.

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Originally posted by WolfChan
Actually, Easter eggs were originally a pagan tradition from the spring festival, Ostara. Christmas and Easter are both adaptations of pagan holidays that the Christians stole to make it easier to convert pagans in the old days. :)

Hallowe'en = Samhain
May Day = Beltane

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I am not so sure what you mean...
Christmas is the birth of Jesus..:confused:
and Easter the ressurection of Jesus :confused:

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Originally posted by Sara luvs her Tinky
I am not so sure what you mean...
Christmas is the birth of Jesus..:confused:
and Easter the ressurection of Jesus :confused:

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Actually if you do some research you'll learn that orginally Easter was a pagan holiday. During the crusades the pagans wanted to keep their holidays so as sort of a happy medium they kept their holidays just changed it so the focus was on Jesus instead. If you read the bible you will also notice that Jesus wasn't born in December, but we celebrate it then because of an old pagan holiday.

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Originally posted by Uabassoon
Actually if you do some research you'll learn that orginally Easter was a pagan holiday. During the crusades the pagans wanted to keep their holidays so as sort of a happy medium they kept their holidays just changed it so the focus was on Jesus instead. If you read the bible you will also notice that Jesus wasn't born in December, but we celebrate it then because of an old pagan holiday.

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I understand that but... i was questioning why she said the christians "stole"it...


btw... your siggy with Tibby and Corckscrew is super cute!:D

If you don't mind Sara, I'll let Wolfchan answer this because I think she understands more about this than I do.

The basics, as I understand them, are that the pagan traditions has holidays at similar times of year to the Christian holidays Christmas and Easter (I think they are the Winter Solstice and Spring Equinox) and in the pagan tradition the Winter Solstice is associated with decorated trees and the Spring Equinox with eggs as signs of new life. So those symbols, trees and eggs, are shared by both faiths.

Does that explanation make any sense?

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Originally posted by Sara luvs her Tinky
I understand that but... i was questioning why she said the christians "stole"it...

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The thought is Christians choose these symbols to represent Christmas and Easter because they would be familar to the pagans they were trying to convert. She may have used the word stole instead of borrow because Christians in general often don't acknowledge that those symbols were originally pagan and didn't come from the Bible or other Christian source.

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Originally posted by Sara luvs her Tinky

btw... your siggy with Tibby and Corckscrew is super cute!:D

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Thanks, Kay made the siggy and I really love it :)

A quick search turned up dozens fo results, most of them from Christian websites, stating that Christmas was origanally a pagan holiday. Christians wanted to convers the pagans, so they took the celebreation of the rebirth of the Sun God, and said "Wait, no look! Our deity was born then too, he's the same as your deity! " Or something to that effect. ;) Here's a few links if you're interested...

http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct/1999/dec6/9te085.html

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/...xmas/celeb.htm

The pagans were manipulated into giving up their celebrations in leiu of these new Christian celebrations. That is why I say these holidays were stolen.

I personally find the story of the death and rebirth of the Holly King to be among the most beutiful and touching I have ever come across, probably much the way that many Christians feel about Jesus' story. I resent that celebration being taken away from my ancestors for so long, and I take joy in bringing it back to life every year.

I have not read every single post here, but the one thing that really seems to amaze me is...we have a bunch of psychics on this board, that seem to know that, had Gore been elected 4 years ago, that 9-11 wouldn't have happened? How anyone can blame Bush for 9-11...it is beyond me...

And to those of you who say that christianity is being "pushed" at you...and that is why you feel it shouldn't be mentioned (religion) in public schools, there are always 2 sides to the argument...what about us Christians, who are opposed to evolution, why should our children have to read about that in public schools, reguardless if you are calling it a science, and not a religion, we don't believe, period, it completely goes against what OUR religion teaches...

Look back 50 years ago, God was allowed to be mentioned in schools, and was a part of people's lives, and prayer was acceptable in schools, maybe even taught by the teachers...and there were morals and there weren't issues like gun shootings and the crime levels weren't so high and the drugs didn't overwhelm schools like they do now...the difference now...God is slowly being taken out of schools, out of our everyday lives, and the world is in trouble...big shocker...sadly, the pattern here, is America has lost it's values by taking religion out of schools...the proof is in the pudding...what are we doing wrong and lacking from schools, and everyday life, to make this world today seem so wrong, and in more trouble than this world, say, 50 years ago was...well, God is what is missing...someday, everyone will see it...right now, it is going to an ongoing argument...

In a side note.

Prop 71 in Cah lee fuh nee ah funding stem cell research was passed.

Ahrnold endorsed this bill!!!

Ahrnold in '08....


It's never too early to start!:rolleyes:

So you're saying that just because we took your deity out of schools the school system is going downhill? Tha'ts a bit of a leap.

In the winter, the instances of drowning decrease. Also, drinking of hot beverages goes up. Are we then to assume that drinking hot beverages reduces your risk of drowning? The two things correspond, but are not correlated.

Personally I don't feel God is missing from anything. Teaching your children your religious beliefs at home is an option to everyone. It is just my belief that unless you are going to teach all the religions in school (Judiasm, Islam, Pagan, Sikh, even atheism-though it isn't really a religion) then none should be taught in school. No single religion is any more or less important than any other and therefore shouldn't be put ahead of any other.

I also don't believe that not having Christianity in schools is the cause for the problems we are having as a society currently. I think the number reason for the current turmoil is the fact that many parents don't care as much about their children's education. They don't care about what their children are learning in school, what their kids are doing when they get home from school but before their parents come home, who their friends are. Most parents don't even know the parents of their children's friends. This is where I believe the abcess in our society lies.

Yes, you still have the option to teach religion in your own home, but that isn't the issue here...what were the schools like 50 years ago? And what are they like now? What is different? God was a common place back then, a standard in the majority of people's everyday lives ( in their homes and in school)...today, He is being dismissed...you can come up with any excuse you can find, that could be responsible for making this society have such a tragic downfall...but the bottom line is, the world is lacking one thing ( that is didn't lack 50 years ago), and as long as we continue to erase God from our everyday lives...this world is in danger.

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Originally posted by Maresche
I also don't believe that not having Christianity in schools is the cause for the problems we are having as a society currently. I think the number reason for the current turmoil is the fact that many parents don't care as much about their children's education. They don't care about what their children are learning in school, what their kids are doing when they get home from school but before their parents come home, who their friends are. Most parents don't even know the parents of their children's friends. This is where I believe the abcess in our society lies.

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Very true.

Also, so many aren't teaching a religion at home, and IMO it's the responsibility of the parents, not the school system. I don't think religion in schools would make a bit of difference, without religion at home. Home is where your values and beliefs are established and so many are unconcerned about ANY belief system. Whether paganism, christianity, muslim, or whatever it must begin at home.

Christiansmommy-- I will just have to disagree with you on that point though I do see where you are coming from to some degree.

Our children don't get religion at school, and yes, that makes me sad that they can't pray the way that we did when I was a kid, but they get it from us, which is the most important. Robyn, I'm sure that your children will get the same from you and Rob as they grow up in your home. Manners, religion, respect should not be learned from our school systems, they should be taught in our homes, starting with the parents, with reinforcement from the religious bodies that we embrace. Our children need to be educated on many beliefs, and then choose for themselves the way in which they want to live. All we can do is guide them in the direction that we believe is best.

Okay, I'm confused here....are you actually saying that you think things were better when pagan kids had to go to school and listen to drivel about a religion that would never be a part of their lives? I'm not trying to stir anything up, I'm genuinely baffled. (And I only used pagans as an example becuase it pertains to me, but I mean all non-mainstream faiths)

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Originally posted by Logan
Our children don't get religion at school, and yes, that makes me sad that they can't pray the way that we did when I was a kid, but they get it from us, which is the most important. Robyn, I'm sure that your children will get the same from you and Rob as they grow up in your home. Manners, religion, respect should not be learned from our school systems, they should be taught in our homes, starting with the parents, with reinforcement from the religious bodies that we embrace. Our children need to be educated on many beliefs, and then choose for themselves the way in which they want to live. All we can do is guide them in the direction that we believe is best.

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They may not get religion from school, but the example of what the school systems were like 50 years ago, when God WAS allowed to be mentioned and His morals were taught, and the example of what school systems are like today, where He is being taken out of them...50 years ago, there was less crime, less drugs, less tragity, unlike today, where God has been removed, things start to fall apart...no God in schools, then the school systems are bound to fall...just like anything...if God becomes totally absent from this world, that is when it will all fall to pieces...just wanted to clarify...i know it is the parents responsibility to teach the kids morals and regious beliefs, but i was just trying to explain " the proof in the pudding", take God out of schools, watch the schoods crumble even more and lose even more values...

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Originally posted by WolfChan
So you're saying that just because we took your deity out of schools the school system is going downhill? That's a bit of a leap.

In the winter, the instances of drowning decrease. Also, drinking of hot beverages goes up. Are we then to assume that drinking hot beverages reduces your risk of drowning? The two things correspond, but are not correlated.

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