Words well spoken...Recieved in Email

Actually, ES, they are unfiltered numbers direct from the FBI annual crime stat report. Anyone can look up the data on the web and look at the trends themselves.

Here is a link to one report extracted from FBI crime data, complete with references to where the data was taken from and what year the data was taken from :

http://www.rkba.org/ccw/stat

The Governor of Michigan, who was VERY anti CCW, had a concealed carry law pushed through the legislature against her wishes. She is now a convert after seeing the results of the legislation.

I firmly believe anyone who can pass legal qualifications and demonstrates skill with a firearm (safe handling, safe storage, etc) should be able to get a CCW permit. I see no reason to prevent law abiding citizens from having access to the means to defend themselves and their homes if they choose to exercise their right to do so.

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

The Governor of Michigan, who was VERY anti CCW, had a concealed carry law pushed through the legislature against her wishes. She is now a convert after seeing the results of the legislation.

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I believe she's a Democrat too. :) I am ok with people owning a handgun
if they are qualified to buy one. I own one myself. It's the auto weapons
with the ability to rip a crowd to bits that scares me. They should not be
sold to the public.

Oh goodness...you don't believe the FBI statistics do you? Worse than the media..... ;) :D

A wild west shootout....what a lovely thought. Lots of innocent bystanders can get shot too! Bullets whizzing through walls into babies's cribs....

We already know that the existing laws are ineffectual in keeping people with mental illness from buying guns "legally"....e.g. Virginia Tech...

and you want to put MORE guns on the streets....

I will not stay in a home where there are handguns. It is too dangerous. I left my cousin's home when I found out her husband keeps handguns around.

There are LOTS of statistics on how dangerous a home is with handguns in it as compare to a home without. According to the American Academy of Pediatrics -- in a home with handguns it is much more likely the gun will be used in a suicide, domestic dispute or accidental shooting than in self-defense.

There's a difference, ES.

The American Academy of Pediatrics has an ax to grind. They have been on the HCI side of the debate for as long as I can remember. They came out with a survey that Pediatricians were supposed to give to their patients' parents asking about guns in the home. If I ever get given that survey by a doctor I'm finding a new Doc.

The FBI doesn't have an agenda. Their annual crime statistics report is just that. Statistics. X offenses of Y type per 100 or 1000 people in a given municipality. It is a very dry document. If crime goes up, it states so in the report. If crime goes down, it does the same. The report is done by career civil servants, not political appointees. It's almost impossible to fire them, so there's little leverage available to get them to massage the figures.

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I will not stay in a home where there are handguns. It is too dangerous

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I guess you won't be coming for dinner, then.

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

There's a difference, ES.

The American Academy of Pediatrics has an ax to grind. They have been on the HCI side of the debate for as long as I can remember. They came out with a survey that Pediatricians were supposed to give to their patients' parents asking about guns in the home. If I ever get given that survey by a doctor I'm finding a new Doc.

The FBI doesn't have an agenda. Their annual crime statistics report is just that. Statistics. X offenses of Y type per 100 or 1000 people in a given municipality. It is a very dry document. If crime goes up, it states so in the report. If crime goes down, it does the same. The report is done by career civil servants, not political appointees. It's almost impossible to fire them, so there's little leverage available to get them to massage the figures.



I guess you won't be coming for dinner, then.

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I am sure the dinner would have been delicious....Pediatricians have an ax to grind. Wow! How about radiologist? They suspect too? ...it seems anyone holding an opinion contrary to yours is suspect. Ever notice that?

With that...I don't trust the FBI....I am a child of the Viet Nam Era...NEVER trust the Feds.... :D Go see the movie about Hanssen....career civil servants....worse than pediatrician...(with apology to my brother...)

Is it possible peds care about children? Nawwww...just politics....

In regards to their "caring" survey, I don't give a damn why they put anything in their survey. What need does a doc have for the information?

None.

You don't trust civil servants, but you trust the media? Now THERE is a problem.

I wouldn't trust a modern reporter to get the color of the sky correct, and if they did by some miracle happen to report that the sky was indeed blue, I'd be running for a window to double check. I've seen the media get too many things wrong and tell 1/2 of the story too many times.

I guess no one noticed the students at VT who were in uniform.

I don't know if they are part of a cadet corp, ROTC or ? on campus.
I thought to myself that one cadet with a CW..

I guess allowing people to pack heat on a COLLEGE campus (with all the bells, whistles, pomp and circumstance. of course) and having someone produce a firearm and busting caps-maybe stopping the toll at 15 or 20- would have been out of the question?

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Don't throw out the baby in the crib with the bullet type.

There are a few different kinds of bullets.

Jacketed, hollow point, lead, copper-

Each has a different "use" and consequence.

Hollow point flatten on impact. Telfon coated (mostly illegal to all) are used to defeat body armor. Some police depts MANDATE what type of ammo they use, to cut down on 'innocent baby deaths'. Look at all the ammo the North Hollywood Shootout robbers used- no one wa killed.

I drove the neighborhood the next day- Find a concrete light pole, take your fist, hold it over a section of that pole and picture a chunk that big missing from it. The LAPD also makes a show of parading around two of the squad cars that were shot up. Not really confidence inspiring since they use them at the recruiting booths. The thugs used armor piercing bullets that day.

Contrary to popular belief, not all shootings happen in Hollywood-for some reason bullets behave differently there!

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Originally Posted by Ceph

Richard...I am one of those Cadets...Matt LaPorte was one of those cadets....

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Words are hollow, but I am truly sorry about the pain that has visited your world.

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There was one radio moron who was critical of the victims-"why didn't anyone rush Cho?" From what the media reported-I know, what to believe coming from that estate-When he bought the 9mm he also purchased 50 rounds of hollow point ammo- Hollow point rounds are really brutal -just as brutal as the rounds coming out of an assault rifle.

The moron jock was suspended from his gig

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About the coverage.

That AH Karan Grewal made every outlet- One cable network even did an hour 'special' and that little maggot made it on their airwaves....

Sad to think that these idiots refuse to STFU!

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Originally Posted by Lady's Human

In regards to their "caring" survey, I don't give a damn why they put anything in their survey. What need does a doc have for the information?

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Save lives? Now...what business would that be of a doctor???

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You don't trust civil servants, but you trust the media?

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Seen way too many civil servants....too political for my taste. They all seem to have a hidden agenda. J. Edgar Hoover ring a bell?

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

When he bought the 9mm he also purchased 50 rounds of hollow point ammo- Hollow point rounds are really brutal -just as brutal as the rounds coming out of an assault rifle.

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Be sure and thank the NRA for his ability to purchase hollow point ammo! Constitutional Right you know!

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Be sure and thank the NRA for his ability to purchase hollow point ammo! Constitutional Right you know!

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Do I have time to thank VA for not letting people carry CWs on a campus.
And the factions that do not want schools to toss kids out because they are loony, The system that says this loon was goofy, signing a paper saying he was a danger to himself, but NOT being able to do anything about it?


I really hate to trivialize this incident, but I thought about this a few days after the shootings.

If someone had a raging case of crabs or herpes or ? and infected a whole slew of students - What can be done about that? Remember the HIPPA rules?You just can't 'out' people because of what is in their medical records.

While we are at it...
What about the idiots who lived with this kook for months but left him alone
because they thought he was different?

Trust me, I have worked with people that were off center and I made sure that people knew about it

I worked with a friiggen goofball reserve cop from some little city department.
She'd sit at her desk and paint faces on the bullets from her carry-on piece-I told my boss about it and there was nothing that she could do. I thought, "Oh well, I could always walk one flight upstairs to the ER if I ever need a .32 hollow point taken out...."

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For the record,

HIPPA rules are very stringent rules regarding a person's medical history.
IF YOU HAPPEN to work in any medical enviroment where you have access to someone's medical history and you release it, you are screwed.,

People, who don't want the government to look into their private lives, computers, bank records and phone lines have to shoulder a little of the blame.

I mean, what does your psych records have to do with buying a gun?

Guns don't kill people, bullets do. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

People, who don't want the government to look into their private lives, computers, bank records and phone lines have to shoulder a little of the blame.

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Nothing like a good trample on Constitutional Rights! Don't touch my instrument of death...but please search my personal life, computer, bank records, phone line...and my medical records while you at it! Don't forget to read my diary/journal while you are rummaging through my house. Might be something in there you need to know.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

In fact, I have an idea...when the government is done rummaging through personal lives...they can publish everything they have learned on a data base for employers. Then employers can make decisions based on it. For example...if you have a child with a serious medical condition...and the employer doesn't want the lost time or the high insurance costs that goes with it...they can just not hire you.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Ceph

I agree with Richard...if information had been a little bit more open such as the information from the school counselors and the teachers that had worked this kid and *knew* he was certifiable we probably would have avoided alot of loss....however its against the law to share that information and they were unable to.

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How would "sharing information from the school counselors and the teachers have avoid alot of loss."

How many kids do you suppose are odd...different...? And you are thinking counselors and teachers should report all of them to whom? And what would be done with all that info? And what if a teachers really dislikes you and reports you?

And..this is only one shooting. How about the guy who mentally tortured and then shot the Amish school girls? He had no record. He was a married man with three children...and a bunch of guns.

Do you think the government should start a "watch" file on married men with three children who have guns?

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

I will not stay in a home where there are handguns. It is too dangerous.

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CHECK THIS OUT!

I am afraid of hand held power tools now...


Some guy mutilated a woman with a circular saw.....THEN KILLED DHIMSELF WITH IT!


I'm getting kinda nervous....There is a router just outside the door...

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

CHECK THIS OUT!

I am afraid of hand held power tools now...


Some guy mutilated a woman with a circular saw.....THEN KILLED DHIMSELF WITH IT!


I'm getting kinda nervous....There is a router just outside the door...

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OMG Richard !!!! Not the dreaded router ???? Run....run now !!!!!
I have nail guns....they are dangerous...VERY dangerous.....but not as dangerous as a router.
You should hide it mate....just in case the greenies get the law changed, and you have hand it in. :eek:
Wom