Staffs are they all vicious???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Love That Collie

You are the one who stated that JRT's "latch on" and I was stating that, that may well be but there's no comparison to a JRT bite and a "Pit" bite so there's nothing obtuse in my thinking about it. Or do you think a JRT bite is the same?

As far as the insurance references, no, not obscure at all, Pit types top the list in more places (i.e. states, counties and cities) than any other ONE type of breed and that is a fact. Your Doberman's insurances are your problem and where you reside and not seen as a MORE major problem across the U.S. as a whole in attack reported cases. I was a bit surprised that Shar-Pei's were also on the insurance industry list, albeit lower on the list. If anybody doesn't think that the insurance industry ISN'T behind breed banning legislation and that they aren't one of the most powerful industries in the nation then those people are sorely mistaken. And if the breeder of these types don't change their breeding habits, owners of "Pit" types might just wake up one day to find them illegal, period, everywhere in the U.S. as they already are in some counties.

FYI, no, I don't believe that I did know conclusively that you are a female.

---

We are all aware of the might of Insurance lobbyists, and with misinformed and prejudicial people writing the policies, whose pockets are fleeced by those willing to fleece them, many breeds suffer.

According to the Google search I just did, Akitas, Shar peis, Rottweilers, GSDs, also top the list for insurance issues. None of those are Pit type, nor Staffodshire descent.......

As stated earlier the obvious size difference between a JRT and a larger terrier is obvious. Therefore the bite differential would also change.

Returning to original portion of this thread, it was NOT the breed at fault on the whole, it was the owners inabilty to restrain, control or correct his animal. It was abuse to have beaten the dog into submission at the whim of a passerby. It still stands that not all dogs in a breed are awful or wonderful, and all breed charicteristics must be taken into account when aquiring your companion. Not all dogs will go find Timmy, and not all are expected to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dr.Goodnow

We are all aware of the might of Insurance lobbyists, and with misinformed and prejudicial people writing the policies, whose pockets are fleeced by those willing to fleece them, many breeds suffer.

According to the Google search I just did, Akitas, Shar peis, Rottweilers, GSDs, also top the list for insurance issues. None of those are Pit type, nor Staffodshire descent.......

---

Yes, they do, (re the Akita, Shar, Rott) but not the major cities and major insurance co.'s and the list changes also. And there's no lobbyists getting paid for lobbying against Shar-Pei's or Akita's, solely. However, it would be nice if they would go find "Timmy".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wolf_Q

This is turning into another pit bull debate and I think the thread needs to be closed. We've had enough threads like this.

---

I agree 100%!! I am so sick of these threads bashing pit bulls. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miss Z

Put it down to the fact all dogs have different temperaments and require different handling, but all are most definitely not born to kill.

---

I hope no one takes this wrong, but of course they are born to kill, as is every meat-eating animal on the planet! That's why they have long sharp teeth.

I read a a great article on prey-drive on a husky site. The author described how different breeds were adapted by man to stop their instinctive natural hunting cycle at different points-- example: a pointer will indicate the prey, but not attack it. A retriever will carry prey back, but not bite it & eat it. Other breeds will drive prey into a corner and hold it there. In the case of huskies & other high-prey drive northern breeds, the hunting cycle was never interferred with, so these dogs will hunt, kill, and devore their prey. And they do. I wouldn't label them "viciouss", they are being good hunters. I know if I said "drop it", they'll look at me like "Are you nuts?"

Look at this from the dog's perspective - it saw an easy opportunity to hunt & bring down a large tasty bird, and it's prey drive kicked in. You label it "viciousness", because you see the swan as "innocent". Another dog might think "nicely done!"

I don't know much about pitties, except that they are loving devoted guardians. Who knows? Maybe it saw the bird as invading its territory?

To answer your original question - yes, some breeds have a higher prey drive than others. Individual dogs vary in their aggressiveness & submissivness. It is unfortunate that some breeds suffer because of their natural tendencies. ALL dogs need obedience training & a responsible owner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Love That Collie

Yes, they do, (re the Akita, Shar, Rott) but not the major cities and major insurance co.'s and the list changes also. And there's no lobbyists getting paid for lobbying against Shar-Pei's or Akita's, solely. However, it would be nice if they would go find "Timmy".

---

I assume you meant the lobbyists :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dr.Goodnow

I assume you meant the lobbyists :)

---

No, I meant "Pits" are right up there. The lower level insurance companies will insure them because they know that the majority of the high profile ones more often than not, will not. But, I'd watch out for that fine print with those lower level insurance companies policies.

More Pitts than I care to mention hold an award for "finding Timmy" in this example, being there for their family. Without the benefit of Hollywood. You can find several confirmed references on this site alone.

My daughter owns Staffodshire terriers, and her homeowners is through Allstate. So is her car insurance. Her rental Insurance was through State Farm. She lives in Yavapai county Az. Go figure.

As I said not all dogs need to bark down a well, nor are they expected to. Several insurance policy writers would be better employed barking down that well, present company excluded.

They aren't vicious dogs.

But they aren't the right dog for everybody. Do they have a high prey drive? yes. Can they be dog aggressive? Yes. They make wonderful dogs IF they get the proper training and socialization. But by no means are they vicious dogs that should be banned or put to sleep.

I too am suprised at how many people say they would beat their dog if it attacked another animal. Believe it or not, reacting to violence with violence can actually make it worse. The dog will take it's pain out on the animal it has in it's mouth becuase it thinks it's that animal causing the pain.

The best way to deal with a situation like this besides using pepper or citronella spray is simply to get ahold of the dog, force it to lay down and pry the animal out of it's mouth. I know this because we once had a German shepherd a long time ago when I was younger who would attack cats. Hitting him never worked, just made it worse, what did was grabbing him by the scruff of the neck, putting his body between your legs, restrain movement, push him to the ground and then remove the cat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SunsetRose

get ahold of the dog, force it to lay down and pry the animal out of it's mouth.

---

The problem in my cat's case -- the dog was a mastiff/rottie/GSD mix. He was huge. He was moving around so much my mom couldn't even grab the dog's back legs. There was no way he could have been pinned down.

Grizzly was actually a large shepherd as well. He was a bit over 100 pounds. It took both of my parents to get him off the cat the first time. It only took a few times before he learned what he was supposed to do. Then all it took was for my mom to grab the scruff of his neck. Even I could do it.

We were eventually able to get him to the point that he would see a cat and almost start to chase it, but we could call him, tell him to leave it, and he was fine.

He died young though, at age 6. We have no clue why, he just layed down and died, literally.

I happen to know very many friendly, and well trained pitts as well as rotties, and don't think any single breed should be banned.

I've said it to many people before, and I'll say it here..."even if any breed (whether pitt, rott, or gsd) was banned, bad owners and people breeding/training for viciousness on purpose would simply find another breed to give a bad rap to."

I could just see the media circus now, headlines reading 'states want to ban poodles after vicious attacks', or 'chihuahuas now considered number one on the most dangerous dog lists' or 'homeowners insurance cancelled after discovered homeowner kept a yorkie as a pet'. *read sarcasm*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luvofallhorses

I agree 100%!! I am so sick of these threads bashing pit bulls. :(

---

Its always the same 2 doing the bashing...just ignore it, we aren't going to undo ignorance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dr.Goodnow

Michelle, in all due respect, you are a Terrier group judge, that is a blanket statement and very, very unlike you.

I am assuming based on years of knowing eachother that you are being very very general here. For the sake of keeping this thread informative as opposed to emotional.

---

Yea I know its unlike me as you know I believe dogs are indivuals with breed tendencies- however- I am just looking or reading report after report- time after time- of witness's that state they could not stop the attack. And yes- most of these reports were untrained dogs etc- but enough reports- they were well trained dogs- including my friends dog.
I do not really think there is answer in this subject. It does become emotional verses informative when having people face what they would do to stop this event from happening with themselves and their pet.
I am also rather surprised few have mentioned that " do nothing" was mentioned. Putting yourself into a dog fight- whether the prey is a dog or not is also a good way to get bit.. In working with dogs in kennels before, and my own group- most broke up the fight with loud yelling- stomping feet, realizing your energy can be transfered if you touch two fighting dogs. Yes - this is a swan. Grabbing the dog at the back of the neck is also a good way to get bit if you are not strong enough to hold down a energy and adrenile charged animal. While I am sorry for the swan- the person probably "egged" on the attack by beating the animal. Especially this breed- " high threshold for pain"..
Maybe its time to close this thread Karen?

You know i never bothered to reply after my initial post because I noticed the thread starter didn't really seem interested in the arguements the people for the staffie were giving she was only looking for the negatives. It actually seems this thread was not started to get the question 'Staffs are they all vicious?' answered at all it really seems it was started to get a heated debate or arguement if you like started...IMHO. I refuse to get involved in this tired debate and bashing party of any and all bully breeds...it is sickening and stupid. People who are against them are against them PERIOD and they don't want to hear people fight for the bully breed they don't want to listen to facts or expert opinion on the temperment of the dog or the problem of irresponible ownership. It is a waste of breath to try to talk to them as their opinion is set in stone. Blockheaded people drive me nuts...come on people open your minds...it is not the dogs...it is the owners.

Enough said I will not reply again. I just wanted to give my opinion of the whole debate thing.

I do agree that this thread needs to be closed.

I can hand on heart say that I really didnt expect such a large and vehement response from my question, as I have said previously I have only recently become a dog owner, so previously I really hadnt given any thought to these dogs, I have 4 children so most of my time has been consumed by them, I only asked as this has been my experience to date. I have read intently all your comments and yes I do agree that many owners are to blame for their dogs bad behaviour, I just wondered if staffs (we dont have pit bulls in england as they are a banned breed.) were naturally vicious, as most of you have ferociously argued they are not, I'm quite happy to accept that this is true but I had to ask the question.