Mr. Biggles is being put to sleep tomorrow

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Originally Posted by BC_MoM

I have a friend in Ontario who is amazing. However, I don't think Jess is the kind of person who is patient with things like this.

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Does your friend have any suggestions to get round this?

I haven't spoken to her, but yes. She is a homeopathic woman and an amazing behaviourlist (but it isn't her career).

If Jess is interested, she can PM me. But I will not give her any information unless she is willing to work with Mr. Biggles. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by BC_MoM

I haven't spoken to her, but yes. She is a homeopathic woman and an amazing behaviourlist (but it isn't her career).

If Jess is interested, she can PM me. But I will not give her any information unless she is willing to work with Mr. Biggles. Sorry.

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But this dog's life is at stake - if there is anything you can do to help I beg you to do it whether Jess asks or not

I know. But what would be the point in giving her my friend's contact information if she wasn't even going to use it? She can either make the selfish choice of putting him to sleep, or she can act like someone who truly cares and ask AND USE the contact information.

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Originally Posted by BC_MoM

I know. But what would be the point in giving her my friend's contact information if she wasn't even going to use it?

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worth a try

http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=121128

she's obviously all over the place at the moment

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Originally Posted by Dr.Goodnow

Jess asked in her original post, that no one make this harder, she knows how upsetting having any animal PTS is for all of us.

Right now if we cannot express how badly we feel for the people going through this, with sincerity, then we should all remember what we were taught as kids and what we have all taught our own,

If you cannot say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

This situation is tragic on many levels for many creatures 2 legged and four.

Jess, I truly hope you will find some comfort in the days ahead.
Hugs

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Well said!!!
Prayers to you, Jess, that you get through these difficult times in your life, and come out stronger from them!

Hugs,
Kim

All shelter dogs have histories. That's the chance we take when giving them a home. My Dasher has extreme separation anxiety. It's common in shelter dogs, I've learned. But I haven't given up on him. I've come here for help and talked to a dog trainer. I've done my research and learned that I needed to change my behavior on my reaction to the damage he caused. I've also learned things to do for him while at home to help him when I do leave. You don't know this dog's history. You haven't even given him a chance to settle in and get used to his surroundings. Adopted dogs need a very stable environment. Even more so than one that was gotten from a breeder or pet store. I'm not sure you and
Chad can provide that. Something tells me that Chad's behavior might be worse than what we know here. I think it would be in the best interest of both dogs to rehome them. But don't be so unfair to Mr. Biggles.

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Originally Posted by king2005

Its not fair that someone allowed their aggressive dog to go into unsuspecting hands. I refuse to do the same to someone else. If I return him to the shelter & say I'm returning him because he attacked someone, they'll have him PTS the second I hand him over. Atleast with me having him PTS, I can atleast be there for Mr. Biggles as he is PTS, as no matter what a dog shouldn't die alone.

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You are absolutely right... And this is now the second bite- and this does sound like an attack since the dog hung on.. Against public opinion of the previous posts- I am afraid I agree there is no other choice. The bites are not getting less severe- they are getting worse..

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Originally Posted by borzoimom

The bites are not getting less severe- they are getting worse..

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Jess has done NOTHING to help this dog and his issues. Keep that in mind. She is avoiding the problem, not dealing with it. Mr. Biggles is not learning that this is unacceptable behaviour. He's learning he can get away with it.

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Originally Posted by gemini9961

I agree that some professional help might be in order for Mr. Biggles. I don't think it's fair to put him down because of this. IMO, it seems like you have given up on him. :(

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sorry, but I agree. :(

Please read her post in general before judging her too harshly - they need our help, her, Chad and the dogs

Perhaps I shouldn't even be posting because I haven't read prior threads about Mr. Biggles. Personally I could never keep a dog that attacked either myself or a family member. As a former vet once told me, "there are too many loving dogs languishing in shelters who will ultimately be PTS." In other words, why not give one of them a chance. This was his thinking on euthanizing a biting dog. It may sound simplistic but I sort of have to agree. In this particular case, it does seem to me like there is a lack of stability in the home environment. For that reason alone, I would suggest no more pets until the current situation changes.

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Originally Posted by BC_MoM

Jess has done NOTHING to help this dog and his issues. Keep that in mind. She is avoiding the problem, not dealing with it. Mr. Biggles is not learning that this is unacceptable behaviour. He's learning he can get away with it.

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I do not know- I am not there- but the dog hanging on with a bite is not good news.. A trainer or behaviorist could possibly help- or not- but all I can is what is typed- I cant see the situation- I cant see how the dogs acts normally etc.. Even if one visit with a trainer to see if this really is a full blown or more of a manageable problem.. I do not know..

Please tell us, what happened before the dog attacked? We might be able to help you. The dog nipping you, and the dog attacking Chad could be two totally seperate issues. I can 95% guarantee that the dog used biting to get away from something. I call it a trigger...Chad did something that mr. biggles has experienced discomfort from before, and used his teeth.

Did you see the attack?

Has the dog seen the vet? Didn't you say somewhere that Mr. Biggles might be either hard of hearing or partially blind? I can't remember...

In the states home owners insurance policies can be cancelled if you have a known agressive dog. In the states also you can face personal lawsuits from a person bitten, whether friend or delivery person, and have to pay court costs, medical bils, and pain & suffering which can be very costly. And in most states there are dog bite laws that will have the biting dog PTS, particularly if it's not a first offence.

I took the liberty of looking up the Dog Owners Liability Act of Ontario and found the following information...

(1) The owner of a dog is liable for damages resulting from a bite or attack by the dog on another person or domestic animal. R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16, s. 2 (1).

(3) The liability of the owner does not depend upon knowledge of the propensity of the dog or fault or negligence on the part of the owner, but the court shall reduce the damages awarded in proportion to the degree, if any, to which the fault or negligence of the plaintiff caused or contributed to the damages. R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16, s. 2 (3).

(3) If, in a proceeding under subsection (1), the court finds that the dog has bitten or attacked a person or domestic animal or that the dog’s behaviour is such that the dog is a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals, and the court is satisfied that an order is necessary for the protection of the public, the court may order,
(a) that the dog be destroyed in the manner specified in the order

5. When, in a proceeding under section 4, the court finds that the dog has bitten or attacked a person or domestic animal or that the dog’s behaviour is such that the dog is a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals, the court may make an order prohibiting the dog’s owner from owning another dog during a specified period of time. 2000, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 6; 2005, c. 2, s. 1 (14).

Proceedings against owner of dog
4. (1) A proceeding may be commenced in the Ontario Court of Justice against an owner of a dog if it is alleged that,
(a) the dog has bitten or attacked a person or domestic animal;
(b) the dog has behaved in a manner that poses a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals; or
(c) the owner did not exercise reasonable precautions to prevent the dog from,
(i) biting or attacking a person or domestic animal, or
(ii) behaving in a manner that poses a menace to the safety of persons or domestic animals. 2005, c. 2, s. 1 (6).




And I HAVE to comment on this.....

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Originally Posted by Lori Jordan

I was watching Animal Cops last night and it made me so mad :mad: A dog came in off the streets after being abandoned(That sticks for life in there heads i dont care what anyone has to say about that)Anyways they were doing a temeperment test,She put that rubber hand in the food dish and pulled it away,The dog snapped offcourse(THE DOG HAD BEEN STARVED FOR HOWEVER LONG,WOULDNT YOU SNAP)Anyhow the dog was put to sleep because it was"Food Aggressive".With an appropriate trainer you could most likely fix his problems these people can read your animals minds and know what to look for,

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They use the testing methods they do to simulate real life situations the dogs may encounter in a new home whether accidental or deliberate. I think it's far better they test them first rather than adopt out an animal that may attack or even kill someone without knowing what kind of temperment they have.


Not knowing which animal cops you were watching (New York, Huston, Detroit) however in all cases those places that take the animals in for treatment are ASPCA. Those places are basically funded by donations, not federal money. There is only so much money to save/treat x amount of animals. As we all know there are millions of homeless, abused, neglected, abandoned animals out there needing homes. There are only so many homes available for all these animals.

To spend the extra $$ to pay for special training for agressiveness, the additional food & medical care the dog would need in the meantime would cost alot! That money and time could be used to spend on probably saving FIVE other animals in more dire circumstances that are perfectly adoptable. The more adoptions, the more money comes in, AND opens up cage space for yet another animal to be saved. By keeping a known agressive animal, spending the money on training that may or may not work, jeopardizing the staff in the meantime with an agressive dog, and taking time, money and cage space, would put other animals that need help and are adoptable at risk of not being helped.

Sometimes you have to look at the numbers. Sometimes it's necessary to sacrifice a few to save many.