Mina's Mom I don't think anybody here would judge you for doing as you are, your reasons are perfectly viable, it is when it is done to save the furniture etc that people like myself have a big problem with it.
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Mina's Mom I don't think anybody here would judge you for doing as you are, your reasons are perfectly viable, it is when it is done to save the furniture etc that people like myself have a big problem with it.
You guys seem to be the only ones besides my vet who support my choice in doing it. I just hate seeing her suffer.Quote:
Originally posted by carole
Mina's Mom I don't think anybody here would judge you for doing as you are, your reasons are perfectly viable, it is when it is done to save the furniture etc that people like myself have a big problem with it.
Take heart in knowing that you have support here, don't worry about all the other's, you and you alone know what is best for your pet, let their opinions fall on deaf ears if you can. cheers.:)
Your decision to declaw is the ONLY acceptable reason to prevent pain for your cat.Quote:
Originally posted by mina'smomma
You guys seem to be the only ones besides my vet who support my choice in doing it. I just hate seeing her suffer.
Do it with a good heart you are acting unselfishly and for your cats sake.
They offer declawing for a reason. I think it's a great idea. If you have pride in your house and home and want a cat then why not! All of the alternatives have never worked for many people. Why ruin a leather couch when you can declaw your cat? It causes them pain for a few hours however they can get over it.
Lizzzy, THE ONLY REASON to declaw a cat is to save the cat's life! To declaw for ANY OTHER REASON like to save money on furniture is to me a criminal act and should be outlawed everywhere. Declawing is cruel torture for a cat. To me, iy's maiming a cat!!!
Yes David I agree, your attitude appalls me, and I don't think you should ever own a cat, its like who cares, my furniture is far more important, than a little pain and suffering to a living creature.
You I believe you are mis-informed, you act like its a nothing for an animal to go through, I would like to see you have your nails removed and see how you like it.
Either this really is how you feel, or you are just enjoying stirring things up in here, it is blatantly obvious most PT people are against declawing for very good reasons., I am glad my country has made it illegal, so that people like you cannot continue to be cruel to their pets.
Alot of others on PT have declawed their pets through ignorance and being mis-informed and will tell you they regret it, and would never do it again.
If you care more about your precious furniture, then get a gold fish.
I am normally a very easy going person , but I have to admit your posts have angered me, due to your very callous disposition.
I think you should 'get over it'Quote:
Originally posted by LIzzzzy
They offer declawing for a reason. I think it's a great idea. If you have pride in your house and home and want a cat then why not! All of the alternatives have never worked for many people. Why ruin a leather couch when you can declaw your cat? It causes them pain for a few hours however they can get over it.
If it is no big deal why is it illegal in some countries, and wasn't it outlawed in Los Angeles?
It's pet owner's like you that scare me to death, this coming from a person who wanted to know if she could trap her neighbor's cats and take them miles away and dump them.
Do you even own a cat?
NO, i dont own a cat, I'm not very fond of them.
We all have different opionins, dont bash me.
You're kidding right? Have you ever taken the time to research declawing? Your animals are not a piece of furniture, they don't ask to live with you and treating in such a manner is disgraceful. It's inhumane. period.
well they could find a nice home and be for ever loved but need to be declawed - or - they can spend six months in a cage and then get put down.,
:rolleyes:
Actually I have noticed a pattern in you're 26 posts, you seem to want to fight with us.
Lizzzy, why do cats "need" to be declawed? There is no excuse to maim a cat for life. Only in an extreme case case of saving a cat's life should it be done, otherwise, NO!! Since you don't own a cat, you don't know the pain the poor cat goes through and IT IS NOT "after a few hours hours the pain is gone" the poor cat has to live with it for life.
We have 23 cats and only 1 is declawed (we found her in the street and she was already declawed). We wouldn't declaw ours, but I've seen many declawed cats in loving homes and with no problems in having it done. Hazel seems to have no problems with this issue either. Since there wasn't a "depends" I didn't cast a vote. I really think it does depend on the situation. We don't declaw, but know some that do and their cats are spoiled, well cared for, and happy.
I have to agree with you Staci, this persons post often seem hostile, and one wonders if we have a troll in our midst.
When people feel passionate about something like de-clawing it is only natural they are going to respond as such, so if that is what you call bashing, then so be it, you can't make such statements as you have and expect no retaliation in return.
The fact you donot even own a cat, shows me you don't really know what you are talking about, your opinions are based on WHAT? I ask you.
If your intentions were to get a bite, well you succeeded, everyone is entitled to their opinions and to voice them, and I have always respected that, but you post in a way that is bound to cause contention, and anger people, with a very callous I could not care less attitude, so it hurts them , big deal, they get over it, and my furniture would be more important.
I have to agree with you, Carole. Lizzzy just wants to cause trouble. Almost all of her arguments aren't based in facts since she doesn't own a cat. I think that she is a troll and I'll try to restrain myself from responding to her.
I don't remember if I replied to this. But I'm not going through 10+ pages to see :rolleyes:
In general, yes, I'm definitly against it. However, there are some circumstances which I feel are understandable.
I think 90% of the cat section hates me from a post on declawing a while ago but I don't believe my point really got across cause I was upset.
I think if it's a matter of keeping the animal in your own care, and the only want to keep it is to declaw, then yes. It might be more painful for me then the cat to be honest, but somethings need to be done. I would never get a cat if I knew I'd have to declaw it for no reason. Never, EVER. I've been through declawing with Kiba (yes, hate me if you must) and it was the hardest thing I think I've ever had to do.
However, my mother gave me a maybe. She said if she was good, no declaw. So I knew I could train her...but I think my mom just couldn't have it so I duno.
Honestly, I still hate myself because I should have tried to get her to my dads sooner.
Also. IMO, I think getting your uterus removed seems a lot more painful. I've seen both operations, and both seem terribly painful. However, by telling ourselves that it is for the kittens future, it allows us to feel that putting the animal through the pain is ok. (I do feel spaying is important, don't get me wrong. I just think we tell ourselves that to feel better)
Now. I bet you wouldn't be able to tell that Kiba was declawed. You can't tell by looking at her paws (unless you know what it is like..IE it doesn't make their paws smaller like someone asked me once...) Kiba can climb ANYTHING including her stratching post tower. She claws at it like she has claws.
Saying all this, I'm still against declawing. I think it's horrible. I cried the whole time Kiba was away, and worried weeks before. (The things people said to me will likely stick with me forever. I think people treated me down right nasty and undeservingly) We all have our own opinons, doesn't make yours or mine right. We all make mistakes, we all do things we regret. Doesn't make you a bad person, doesn't mean you're cruel and shouldn't have pets (as someone told me........)
Kiba and Josie both follow me around everywhere. Kiba definitly is not unhappy. She now has a huge house to explore, and someone always home if she is lonely.
All I'm trying to say is some of yous houldn't judge others just cause they have declawed cats. You shouldn't dislike them either. We all have our own choices in life to make, and I GARENTEE you've made mistakes too.
(btw, I'm only saying this cause I indeed haven't gotten over the things said to me before. I was and still am very hurt by that.)
Besides, had I not taken Kiba (like I was told I should have done) her previous owner would have kept her. Lets see, she wouldn't be declawed. Can't afford it. Wouldn't be spayed. Can't afford that either. WOuld be left outside all the time, would probably breed with her father and mannnny other problems I have with that girl. To me, declawing her was worht having her with me and not with Tara. (Even though I still wish she wasn't declawed...)
That's just stupid..don't get a cat if you think that wayQuote:
Originally posted by LIzzzzy
They offer declawing for a reason. I think it's a great idea. If you have pride in your house and home and want a cat then why not! All of the alternatives have never worked for many people. Why ruin a leather couch when you can declaw your cat? It causes them pain for a few hours however they can get over it.
IMO Lizzzzy is a troll and should be ignored.
I don't think you can make a comparison about spaying and de-clawing, one is necessary , the other is NOT.
I understand your feelings were hurt and I remember that thread, turned right down nasty.
I have a problem with the posts Lizzzzy is making, she is purposely stirring up trouble.
I will never apologise for my opinion regarding de-clawing, apart from special circumstances, it is barbaric and totally un-necessary, I am glad my country has made it illegal, doesn't that tell you something?
Everyone makes mistakes at the cost of others sometimes, it is whether you learn from them or not that counts for something IMO.
I certainly have a problem with someone who comes here, starts a controversial thread like this, does not even own a cat, and admits to not even being fond of them, do you all smell a rat? I sure do. End of story.
This thread was started in August of 2003! I don't understand why we are all still debating this. :confused:
Exactly. I think Lizzzzzy started it up again,not sure.:(
I hate to tell everyone this but this thread has had posts from every month since last year, there were posts about this days before i posted, so no i did not bring it back up.
Well I posted today, but it was at the top. I'm sorry if I broght it up, but I wanted my opinon too.......
And to a degree, there is similarities to spaying and declawing. Anyway, I think that vent got me over it cause I don't really care about this topic anymore. (then again I spent since 7 thismorning studying for an exam (6pm now)
Hmm I fail to see any similarities at all myself, one is done out of necessity , the other is NOT, but oh well, I guess we could go on and on, best to just move on and forget it.;)
I shall just respectfully agree to disagree strongly on this subject.:)
I brought it up again. I was reading stuff about removing the dewclaws in dogs, and since I have my dog's dewclaws removed, I wanted to post that I thought that havings a cat's claws removed was inhumane, or something to that affect. I just wanted to post my thoughts on it or whatnot. Sorry for reopening a hornets nest. :oQuote:
Originally posted by carole
Exactly. I think Lizzzzzy started it up again,not sure.:(
I guess after again crying about it and talking to my friend I try to say things to stick up for myself so I will feel better about it. I hate myself for it, and I always will. She tells me to get over it but doesn't understand. She said she'd sooner give her cat up then do that to it (which is why I was crying) cause I couldn't give her up...I can't. My pets have a forever home, unless something came up where they 100% NEEDED a new home or they'd have a bad life.
I would have have the first joint of my fingers cut off if I could replace hers (honest to god) I would without thinking twice have Josies seizures. My life is less important then theirs, but the thing is I'm greedy and NEED them. And I feel they need me. Esp Josie who has been sick her whole life. My friend said some people would have put her to sleep.
I'm sorry to just say things as I did. I realize it now. But I can't stand the fact that people thing I'm a bad person or that I can't care for my pets. You guys will call me stupid, but things like this Really effect me.
My friend told me she grew up with cats and declawing as a wrong. I never knew ANYTHING about it, that it was wrong or anything till PT. I hate it more then anything. If you could feel how I am feel maybe you wouldn't hate me. I really feel you guys don't like me here. I just wish you weren't quiet so opinionated about it..(IE you're right. no other possibilities are. I was told I am immature, but to me, that is what's immature.)
I really need to put this to get over it. I'm tired of crying over things I shouldn't, but I garentee I wouldn't feel that way if those mean things weren't said. (I never got one appology btw. I was hoping from a certain person but I get I don't deserve it.) I should just leave pt. People would be happier.
No one loves their cat/dogs more then I love mine. I would give up my life style, money, everything. I would live in a box if I could give them the best. I don't have friends. They are my friends, and my life..
Just ignore me. I need to do this for my own good for nothing self. I'm going through **** right now. I would have killed myself long ago if not for my pets.
= my last post in cat general. DOn't worry.
(edit) just don't judge things you've never done you're self...
Just to address the ‘spaying is like declawing’ theory…..
In the case of neutering/spaying, this gives the following advantages to the cat :-
: Females have no chance of developing cervical cancer, dying in labour or any other breeding complications.
: Males are less prone to wandering and looking for partners which decreases their chance of RTA ‘s and catching FIV & FELV. (Mainly spread though fighting and breeding)
: All cats have reduced risk of developing breast cancer and a recent study proved that cats altered before their first heat cycle live longer lives.
In the case of declawing, this gives the following advantages to the cat :-
: Well, I haven't found one yet, but the Open Challenge is still open, if anyone has any suggestions.
Slleipnir, I am so disturbed after reading your last post, and worried about you, sweetheart nothing is worth feeling the way you are about this topic, I know that I was not one of the people who were nasty to you, and in this thread I am merely stating the obvious, and really I have a problem with this Lizzzzy person, who appears to be nothing more than a troll.
There are quite a few other people on PT who have had their cats de-clawed, and now wish they never had, just like you, everyone makes mistakes, and if you learn by them as you have yourself, that is what is important.
I can speak for myself in saying I certainly have no bad feelings towards you and never had, and I am sure no-one hates you, it sounds like you are feeling very low right now, and everything is getting on top of you.
Please don't leave PT, that would be another mistake, your contribution is very important, even though I disagree with you on certain aspects of this topic, it is just that a difference of opinion, nothing less, nothing more, I respect you as a person, and have always enjoyed your posts.
It really saddens me to hear a young person as yourself, being so hard on herself and feeling so inadequate and despondent about your life, life is good slleipnir, embrace it, and make the very most of it that you can, when I feel like life is worthless, I just think of all the people out there given death sentences, like diagnosed with incurable cancer, some of which are young people like yourself, and how much they would do anything to beable to live, but have no choice, it doesn't always work, but it helps put my life into perspective sometimes.
Please Pm me anytime , even if it is just to chat, and please stay here with us on PT. HUGS.
Reread my post??Quote:
Originally posted by PayItForward
Just to address the ‘spaying is like declawing’ theory…..
In the case of neutering/spaying, this gives the following advantages to the cat :-
: Females have no chance of developing cervical cancer, dying in labour or any other breeding complications.
: Males are less prone to wandering and looking for partners which decreases their chance of RTA ‘s and catching FIV & FELV. (Mainly spread though fighting and breeding)
: All cats have reduced risk of developing breast cancer and a recent study proved that cats altered before their first heat cycle live longer lives.
In the case of declawing, this gives the following advantages to the cat :-
: Well, I haven't found one yet, but the Open Challenge is still open, if anyone has any suggestions.
I know exactly what the advantages of spaying. And I know a lot about delclawing. I've worked ina vet clinic, for one.Quote:
I try to say things to stick up for myself so I will feel better about it.
To me, advantages of declawing are for people who just can't/won't adapt a cat with claws. I can imagen if no cat ever got declawed ever again there would be a lot more in the shelters and a lot more put to sleep. Eventually though, things would right out again when all the people who don't wanted clawed cats have put them to shelters. I again stand by my 'I hate declawing and would never under normal circumstances EVER!!!! do it' I hate it as much as some of you do. But not enough to risk my cats life. She was older when she was declawed. She would have gone to the shelter and maybe PTS. I couldn't chance it. Also when Is aid I'd have my fingures removed to repair hers (if I said it here I dont know anymore) I ment it. I would gladly ungo unnessary pain for her safely. I will probably never forgive myself for what I did but I can't go back I guess
Thank you carole for clearing that up...I thought you were really mad at me too like some of the other people...I know you didn't say anything mean to me, but other people didn't but said they were very unhappy with me. And right now everything bothers me, i'm sorry for sounding dumb, but when my pets are envolved I'm extremely sensitive.
I ment cat gernal, not pt
Nope Dear I am not a bit mad at you, it is not a personal issue in that sense, I just feel very strongly against de-clawing, with good reasons I believe, and I understand exactly what you are saying, to me there are special circumstances where de-clawing may be necessary, its people who have an attitude like Lizzzzy that bother me, I was annoyed by her callous comments, said without any real thought or regard to anyone, but like I said I am sure she is a troll to be igored.
Anyone with a brain in their head can hear how much you love your pets, and I have no doubt they are in loving hands, what is done is done, and you should forgive yourself, and know in your heart they have a wonderful life with you, and isn't that what really matters here.
Also I can relate to being sensitive when it comes to your beloved pets, I have been in indoor/outdoor debates,and felt pretty hurt sometimes, my two being indoor/outdoor, sometimes we are looked upon as being loathed for allowing our pets to do just that, but then thats another show as Oprah would say lol, we just have to know in our heart what we do for our pets is right, and to the best of our ability, as you clearly pointed out some of these cats would not even have a life, they would be PTS.
My opinion is: It is not fair or humane. Imagine something larger than yourself deciding to have your fingers amputated at the last knuckle...Then they say "Oh, he is better off"....Please! If you have issues with cats clawing they make rubber tips for the claws...also scratch posts work...I trim my cats claws (I have 5) they cannot hurt eachother and my furniture is intact. I think people who declaw should have their fingers amputated at the last knuckle...I know this is a 'radical' statement but I have done much field study and have more love and respect for the feline species than the human.
Hi, Lisa, welcome to Pet Talk! I'm david p and I live in Pittsburgh, Pa. I have two kitties that own me, Nikki, a tuxedo kitty, and Daisy, a tortoiseshell kitty. I volunteer with Cat Sense, a cat rescue organization in Pittsburgh. Both Nikki and Daisy are rescued kitties. There are pictures of them in my signature. You and I share the same view on declawing. There is only one reason to declaw that is to save the poor cat from pain. There is NO OTHER REASON to declaw.
Ditto, David, my sentiments exactly.
I don't know much about declawing, and well, I don't know to much about cats either however I do think it is a HORRIBLE alternative. If you don't want scratch marks on your furniture buy a cat beanie baby:rolleyes: I guess it's kind of the same with dogs, if you don't want it barking, get a fish :p. I know people that have their cats declawed, they all say that they would never do it again, most of them didn't know about the pain it causes for the cat when they had it done. LIzzzy, sorry, but I am so dam happy you don't have a cat. Your furniture is NO excuse, thats sad and inhumane:(
I don't think people should immediately jump to conclusions as it's only wrong...like I believe in some special circumstances. Like mine for example. I feel all these comments directed at me and I wish I would stop looking here but I feel like crying whenever I'm reminded.
I understand everyone has their own opinions, that's totlaly fine with nme, but if you wish for your opinion to be accepted why can't you accept others as well? It's like yours is the only right one. (I'm not,btw, directing this at anyone. I've talked to some people about it more privately and am fine with them so I hope no one thinks I'm directing it) It's just in the past (even though they don't remember it :( Judging has been put on me and I don't like it. I just don't see why I should accept others opinions when no one will accept mine..And I know Carol knows what I ment, she said she understands but has her own believes and thats fine by me and what I mean. Where as some people set on declawing and they ARE right. That's final. Everyone else should go to h*ll.
AGAIN, I'm not trying to justify that declawing is right or good, I hate it probably more then most of you, I just believe under some circumstances it's better for the cat. I can honestly see how full shelters would/will get if/when declawing is banned completely. They will be PTS because people can't have a cat with claws and perhaps they're all together ignorant with finding alternatives. Again, doesn't make it right but that's how people are. Maybe they'd be better off dead, but I don't personally believe so. I'd be heartbroken if my mom made me give Kiba to the shelter cause I wouldn't have her declawed, and at her older age (IE not a kitten anymore) maybe no one would want her.
I'm sorry to keep at this but I don't know that I can give it up. I feel guilty and probably always will. It justs bugs me how everyone says it;s wrong no matter what. I don't think that's true. I'm not trying to be mean, and I'd never declaw a cat again, but there is still a lot of people who don't care. It saddens me this happens for no reason, but at the same time I'm equally, if not more sad that they'd be killed otherwise. No one seems to see my reason. It's like I'm calling out in the dark. In the other thread it didn't matter what I said I was down right cruel and hated. The words stuck with me, for one person especially. It hurts more to know she didn't even remember doing it or saying it. I'd like to get along with the person but I'm to cruel and don't deserve pets appearintly. Which is probably true.
Saying that, you can't judge someone from their typing. It only shows a portion of their personality. I'd much prefer to talk face to face with this persona nd others so my true feels maybe can be seen. I honestly don't think I'm such amean person...Maybe it's just me but I believe I love Kiba enough to make up for her lost claws. Also seeing the claw is retractable, it's not like it's necessary for walking or anything although I'm sure it feels weird without them. And worst of all, the pain.
Kiba has a huge home to rome in. She is kept inside but in the summer is allowed outside on a leash if I'm with her. She has regular vet checks and money is no problem if a health problem ever arises. She has endless amounts of comfortable places to sleep, sit, and look outside. She has a million toys, and most important, all the love she ever wants. Someone is always home, so she doesn't get lonely. My dad never leaves home, so if I ever am away she never has to leave to go to a kennel. Maybe her life would have been better with claws, but honestly, she seems pretty happy to me. She scratches at things as if she has claws. She climbs ANYTHING.
I'm willing to set up a webcam or even record her so people can see how horrible a life she is and how miserable she is.
Again, I'm really sorry I can't let go. I feel extremely hurt since that thread and I know I'm childish, but I have a lot to learn yet. Being depressed and having no self confidence doesn't help. Anything negative said to me is taken to heart and I will believe it because I don't feel anything positive about myself. Maybe if I got a long with a certain person I'd feel better, but I'm honestly probably going to be hated forever.
slleipnir,
I understand what your saying. I agree, if the only thing that is stopping a cat from finding his/her forever home is their claws then I believe its ok to declaw them. There are other exceptions. I know you must be a great cat owner. I understand where your coming from, and I accept your opionin.
I disagree, a home which demands declawing before homing a cat is not a good home but a narrow minded OR uneducated one.Quote:
Originally posted by Mandy1
I understand what your saying. I agree, if the only thing that is stopping a cat from finding his/her forever home is their claws then I believe its ok to declaw them.
What happens if the cat does something worse than scratching, like weeing on the carpet. That cat would usually be shipped off to the shelter straight away as these homes which won't accept frayed sofa are unlikely to tolerate urine soaked sofas any better.
Please note that 60% of declawed cats send to shelters have developed urine based problems. So declawing failed these cats, they certainly didn't get a forever home due to declawing and then they have a much higher chance of being put to sleep, who wants a weeing cat ?!?
Owners need to be forced by law NOT to declaw while we educate them why declawing is pointless.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
slleipnir,
We chatted last year about your kitties in a friendly way.
As I said then.
Quote:
But you are a minor child, it was your mothers responsibility to declaw Kiba not yours, that is why I asked if your MUM had her declawed.
Declawing your cats was your mums decision and as a minor you could not have overuled her decision. You never wanted your cats declawed and tried to persuade your mum but she had made her mind up from day one and nothing you said or did would have changed that.Quote:
Just remember what people hate is the fact that cats are declawed and the problems the cats develop and yes the people who have the facts and do it anyway. But this doesn't apply to you or your mum, as you didn't have the decision and your mum didn't have the facts. :(
Please do not take declawing threads as a direct aim at you they are no such thing.
These threads IMO are to educate people with the facts so if they choose to go ahead with a declawing operation, they do so with the knowledge of what could happen to their cats and alternative solutions.
YOU didn't do anything wrong, so don't feel guilty. Your cats have good loving homes and you will love them for their lifetime without claws as much as you would have done with them. :)
Please do not feel bad love those kitties with a guilt free heart and give them a cuddle from me, they are very lucky cats.
PIF
PS. slleipnir, You said last year, you might be interested in writing an article for my declawing site at www.declawing.co.uk. I would still love your input if you had the time :)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PayItForward
[B]I disagree, a home which demands declawing before homing a cat is not a good home but a narrow minded OR uneducated one.
What happens if the cat does something worse than scratching, like weeing on the carpet. That cat would usually be shipped off to the shelter straight away as these homes which won't accept frayed sofa are unlikely to tolerate urine soaked sofas any better.
Please note that 60% of declawed cats send to shelters have developed urine based problems. So declawing failed these cats, they certainly didn't get a forever home due to declawing and then they have a much higher chance of being put to sleep, who wants a weeing cat ?!?
Owners need to be forced by law NOT to declaw while we educate them why declawing is pointless.
TE]
Well I don't know much about this since I've never had a cat but...I know many poeple that have declawed cat's that are always messing up their house however I know they would never think about giving them away...so no, not always.
Audrey I think Jenny has put it into perspective for you,rid yourself of any guilt sweetie, it is time to do that, look at your babies and is that not all the proof you need, I know you take it to heart, and that is nothing to be ashamed of, that is part of being YOU , but you know in your heart ,your furbabies have a great home, and so do all of us.
As for that certain person, maybe you should Pm them and tell them exactly how you feel, and try and bury the hatchet so to speak, I know this person is very passionate about what they believe, but also has a heart of gold, and I donot believe for one moment they hate you, or have a personal grudge against you, but you need to talk to them about it ok , HUGS.
Audrey even I have stated there are always exceptions to the rule, personally i had problems with Lizzzzzy in this thread who made statements which would trigger anyone's emotions, without any thought or experience, a person who admitted to not owning a cat or even liking them, grrr...., but I am not going to continue to feed this persons need for attention, and I still believe they are nothing more than a troll.:(
This is an open plea to any guest or member who is considering declawing their cat.
Please contact me or any other member of petalk for advice on training your cat to a post or overcoming other problems BEFORE you declaw your cat.
All I ask is that an effort is made to resolve the issues before resorting to declawing.
I promise I will remain helpful and friendly even if you decide to go ahead with the declawing.
PM me here or email me at [email protected] or post without registering on this section of the PIF Tails forum http://www.piftails.com/forum/upload...splay.php?f=22
Thank you