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How can you reason with a group of people who send their own relatives out with a bomb on their back?
"Brother/sister/cousin.......Paradise awaits you if you choose martyrdom.."
"HEY AMIR, I'm sending over my cousin, He wears a bomb vest in a 44 long!!!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
I'm saying if we (Westerners) had a better understanding of their culture
and they ours, these differences need not get to this point.
This is an article I ran across today that offers an interesting idea
of what's really up with all the Islamic protests.
Headline: Behind the cartoon protests
Byline: The Monitor's View
Date: 02/10/2006
The clash over the Muhammad cartoons isn't just between "the West" and
Islam. It's more between Muslims. Protests over the derogatory cartoons
were purposely fanned by Arab leaders who need to look like mightier
defenders of Islam than the jihadists who want to overthrow them and
unite all Muslims.
Many actions by the West serve as merely a foil in a long intra-Muslim
struggle over whether to return the Middle East to some bygone Islamic
unity of centuries past. The cartoons published in a Danish newspaper
were used as an excuse to score points in a bigger game.
This Muslim struggle over whether to create an Islamic empire
reappeared in modern times with the 1979 Islamic revolution in Iran.
Now, after more than two decades of trying to export their revolution
through terrorist groups and oil money, Iran's Shiite mullahs are
losing the battle. They were drained by a long war with Iraq during the
1980s but, most of all, by the misrule of their own, now disenchanted
people.
Besieged at home by youthful dissent, Iran's clerics have reverted to
Persian nationalism, Israel baiting, and a quest for the ultimate tool
against those who oppose its claim to Islamic leadership, nuclear
weapons.
That latter move has only widened the split between Islam's rival
camps, the Shiites and the Sunnis, who are divided over who should have
led the faith after the prophet Muhammad's passing. Arab leaders have
sought the West's help in thwarting Iran's nuclear ambition.
Competing with Iran for Islamic leadership since the 1990s has been
Sunni-dominated Al Qaeda.
Its leaders, now on the run, may still believe terrorist attacks on the
West, such as 9/11, can rally the faithful under its flag or bring a
flood of followers into Afghanistan and Iraq. But the group's violent
tactics, especially beheadings or killings of Muslim bystanders in
bombings, have turned off the "umma," or the wider community of
Muslims.
Al Qaeda's internal memos have admitted its tactical mistakes. "We are
in a race for the hearts and minds of our umma," wrote the group's
ideologue, Ayman Zawahiri, last year. And in a recently released audio
tape, the fugitive Osama bin Laden tried to restore his slipping
legitimacy with Muslims.
Strangely, the jihadists on the ascendency are those using a Western
import, democracy. The Palestinian group Hamas and the Egyptian Muslim
Brotherhood have won impressive gains in recent elections. Reflecting
the views of their voters, they're now mainly occupied with how to
govern well. Both appear to be moderating their rhetoric.
The mistake of many jihadists is to think that Islamic unity through
the sword can bring the dignity and respect sought by Arabs and
Iranians from their governments and the West. But religion can't be
imposed.
And to always create an enemy out of Western actions is no way to
uplift Islam's image. While the West can do more not to antagonize
Muslims, it is really up to Muslims to resolve their internal conflict.
So far, the radicals appear on the run, with some at least running
toward the ballot box rather than the ammunition box.
Unfortunately religion is being used in Iran to control the masses. Here in the U.S. we must never forget to separate church and state.
What would Muhammad do?
History suggests the prophet was more pragmatic than followers rioting in his name.
By Jamil Momand, JAMIL MOMAND is a professor of biochemistry at Cal State Los Angeles.
"Not again," I thought. "Don't we Muslims ever get tired of complaining?"
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...ostemailedlink
Thanks for the link. Good article. :)
I think it is safe to say that the publication of the Mohammad drawings in a danish newspaper resulted in an "unholy mess"...? :rolleyes:
When Randi showed me that she had started a thread on this subject, I could not believe it! I thought it was very much unlike her to bring up a subject this controversial... and I was almost afraid to read it!
Now I'm glad that I did, because it made me feel a lot less alone, seeing that your thoughts resemble mine. When I began to read the thread, I thought that I - as a dane - would have a lot of explaining to do, but I can see that there is no need for that. I also enjoyed reading the fine newspaper articles posted by Lizbud and Poofy.
I have seen the drawings on TV only. The "Jyllands Posten" is not a big newspaper in DK, and so I (and most other danes) wouldn't have known anything about them - had the muslims not reacted so strongly.
In the beginning all I felt was total astonishment and disbelief: How on earth could anyone be so mad about a measly drawing in a paper, when there are so many terrible things going on in the world? As things developed, the absurdity of it all made me giggle even if the crisis and the wrath of the muslims should be taken very seriously and is nothing to giggle about. But during the first days of the crisis it was all so completely surreal to me, and I had to struggle to really get it into my system, that this was actually happening. I remember thinking that if I didn't get a grip soon, I should probably still be laughing when a bomb landed on my head.
After that first reaction followed some days of fear. I didn't sleep very well at night. Not so much for the fear of incomprehensible bombs but because of the fear of being misunderstood and harmed as a result of the stupid misunderstanding, that our Prime Minister didn't want to apologize for the drawings, when the truth is that he has no jurisdiction over the danish newspapers and therefore cannot decide what they may or may not publish. It really made me uneasy that the angry communities seemed unable to understand this separation between government and the media. As for possible terrorist retaliation on danish soil, all I can do is hope that I'm somewhere else than the bomb on that particular day.
I think it was allright for the editor to apologize, though. As long as he only apologizes for the sorrow and hurt he has caused, just as I would apologize to a friend if I inadvertedly overstepped her boundaries and made her sad or cross with me.
I would absolutely hate it, if Anders Fogh ever apologizes on behalf of the nation for bringing the drawings! That would be apologizing for us being danes! It would be apologizing for the fact that we are brought up in another culture and with other traditions. Before I began writing this I looked up the word "satire" in my dictionary - I wasn't sure that the concept existed in english (sorry!) - but I see that it does. In my view satire means a great deal to us. We use it a lot. We soften harsh truths with it, and we use it to make problems easier to live with. The concept is part of what is is to be danish. At least that is what I think. Where I come from, its ok to make jokes of almost everything - the only exception being jokes about the disabled. That, luckily, is still a taboo.
In general, I guess, danes are an "unholy bunch!" I guess as a people we are more practical than spiritual, and we prefer a good laugh over a prayer any day (sorry, no offense intended! Is only explanatory). Personally, I do recognize the enormeous strength you can gather from having a belief, all I am saying is that believing in any power higher than the country's prime minister is not an easy task for a dane. If anything, we should be pitied rather than persecuted for not having that ability, and for being unable to understand people that do!
Well, that's just what I think... and I shall always strive to keep in mind, that your opinion is just as good as mine!
And now I forgot the smilies again..! :)
Lots of love,
Sus and Bella
Oh yes, indeed it did!! :eek: However, the muslims living in Denmark have certainly been forced to take a stand, they are forming various groups, fighting each other. I personally like the views of Naser Khader, who is a member of the Danish Parliament - now more popular than ever. Not what the fanatics had expected. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sus
I also think it was allright for the editor to apologize, though - as long as he only apologizes for the sorrow and hurt he has caused. The Prime Minister made a lame attempt to get things settled in an interview on an Arabic TV station - he didn't do very well, it was actually quite an embarressing performance!
It's hard enough to believe anything he says!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sus
Ps. I saw the drawings, they're in the link I posted earlier - I've seen a lot worse than those!
I heard that the Pakastanis burnt down some American interests in that country....Fast food places and banks and such....very very smart.
Deny your countryman/women a good job...
Richard...if losing jobs isn't bad enough an 8 year old boy died today in the riots...this is truly disgusting to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caseysmom
The Los Angeles Times printed a picture of a small boy, truly terrified, caught up in a strand of barbed wire....with no one to help him.
The rioters will find a way to bleme that on the West and will choose to ignore their own stupidity.. :rolleyes:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11383819/
I haven't had a good laugh in a long time.
-----------------------------------------
He apparently did not realize that 12 cartoonists, not one, drew the drawings that have led to protests across the Muslim world.
“Don’t play with our religion,” read a placard held up by a protester. “No double standards. We want justice!” read another.
In Bangladesh, about 500 protesters marched through streets outside Dhaka’s main mosque, chanting “Down with Islam’s enemies.”
-----------------------------------------------------
I can see this cleric putting a "P.S." on this bounty...
Only the death of the first cartoonist will be valid. :rolleyes:
Double Standards? You HAVE to be kidding!
Down with Islam's enemies?.....Yep, find the Kidnapping/decapitating cowards and then we'll talk, O.k.?
I believe this man has some very interesting things to say to all Muslims.
Islamic truths
By Mansoor Ijaz, MANSOOR IJAZ is an American Muslim of Pakistani ancestry.
ANOTHER WEEK, another Muslim country burns in rage over months-old Danish cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) in an unflattering light. On Friday it was Libya, and earlier in the week it was my father's homeland, Pakistan, where violent protests were scattered across the nation. Some Muslims have decided that burning cities in defense of a prophet's teachings, which none of them seem willing to practice, is preferable to participating in rational debate about the myths and realities of a religion whose worst enemies are increasingly its own adherents.
This week's events should compel those of us who claim Islam as our system of philosophical guidance to ask hard questions of ourselves in order to revive the religion's essential foundation: justice, peaceful and tolerant coexistence, compassion, the search for knowledge and unwavering faith in the unity of God.
I am an American by birth and a Muslim by faith. For many of my American friends, I am a voice of reason in a sea of Islamist darkness, while many Muslims have called me an "Uncle Tom" for ingratiating myself with the vested interests they seek to destroy through their violence. Mostly, though, I try not to ignore the harsh realities the followers of my religion are often unwilling to face.
The first truth is that most Muslim ideologues are hypocrites. What has Osama bin Laden done for the victims of the 2004 tsunami or the shattered families who lost everything in the Pakistani earthquake last year? He did not build one school, offer one loaf of bread or pay for one vaccination. And yet he, not the devout Muslim doctors from California and Iowa who repair broken limbs and lives in the snowy peaks of Kashmir, speaks the loudest for what Muslims allegedly stand for. He has succeeded in presenting himself as the defender of Islam's poor, and the Western media has taken his jihadist message all the way to the bank.
The hypocrisy only starts there. Muslims and Arabs have done pitifully little to help improve the capacity of the Palestinian people to be good neighbors to their Israeli brethren. Take the money spent by any Middle Eastern royal family at a London hotel or Geneva resort during one month and you could build enough schools and medical clinics to take care of 1,000 Palestinian children for a year. Yet rather than educate and feed Palestinian and Muslim children so they may learn to settle differences through dialogue and debate, instead of by throwing rocks and wearing bombs, the Muslim "haves" put on a few telethons to raise paltry sums for the "have nots" to alleviate the guilt over their palatial gilded cages.
The second truth — one that the West needs to come to grips with — is that there is no such human persona as a "moderate Muslim." You either believe in the oneness of God or you don't. You either believe in the teachings of his prophet or you don't. You either learn those teachings and apply them to the circumstances of life in the country you have chosen to live in, or you shouldn't live there.
Haters of Islam use the simplicity and elegance of its black-and-white rigor for devious political advantage by classifying the Koran's religious edicts as the cult-like behavior of fanatics. The West would win a lot of hearts and minds if it only showed Islam as it really is — telling the story, for example, that the prophet Muhammad was one of the great commodity traders of all time because he based his dealings on uniquely Muslim values, or that the reason he had multiple wives was not for the sake of sex but to give proper homes to the children of women made widows during a time of war. The cartoon imbroglio offered Western media an opportunity to portray the prophet in his many dignified dimensions, not just the distorted ones; sadly, there were few takers.
But to look at angry Islam's reaction on television each night forces the question of what might be possible if all the lost energy of thousands of rioting Muslims went into the villages of Aceh to rebuild lost homes or into Kashmir to construct schools.
In fact, the most glaring truth is that Islam's mobsters fear the West has it right: that we have perfected the very system Islam's holy scriptures urged them to learn and practice. And having failed in their mission to lead their masses, they seek any excuse to demonize those of us in the West and to try to bring us down. They know they are losing the ideological struggle for hearts and minds, for life in all its different dimensions, and so they prepare themselves, and us, for Armageddon by starting fires everywhere in a display of Islamic unity intended to galvanize the masses they cannot feed, clothe, educate or house.
This is not Islam. And the faster its truest believers stand up and demonstrate its values and principles by actions, not words, the sooner a great religion will return to its rightful role as guide for nearly a quarter of humanity.
Thank you, Lizbud, that was a very interesting read.
It certainly was, Liz. Thank you.