Tookie??

Tookie Williams was CONVICTED of killing only 4 people. Anyone who believes he only killed 4 is, IMO, a bit naive.

And Tookie's supporters, like Tookie, were not trying to get him off the death penalty hook. They wanted a complete pardon, and for him to live his life as a free man. I would rather see him dead. That may be bloodthirsty, but too bad.


And while he went to his grave protesting his complete and utter innocence, at his trail (amid his growling, long minutes of boisterous laughter, and other hideous remarks) he loudly told victim's family members and the prosecutors things like "You should have heard the noise he made when I shot him!" (insert more hysterical laughter here). I'm sorry, but children's books do not make up for Tookie's crimes.

i don think they should have killed him. even though he did kill 4 people and he obviously isnt accepting responsibility or showing any remorse for it. right now he is doing more good alive than he is dead. while his childrens books may seem useless and dumb to you, they have kept hundreds of kids off the streets and from joining gangs. and thats wht we need isnt it? i'm not saying he should be let out of jail or given a reduced sentence or any kind of lesser punishment, he should have been kept in jail. but what good is he doing us now? and this just goes to show kids that even if you do screw up and then start doing better...well, you're gonna die anyway.

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Originally Posted by G.P.girl

i don think they should have killed him. even though he did kill 4 people and he obviously isnt accepting responsibility or showing any remorse for it. right now he is doing more good alive than he is dead. while his childrens books may seem useless and dumb to you, they have kept hundreds of kids off the streets and from joining gangs. and thats wht we need isnt it? i'm not saying he should be let out of jail or given a reduced sentence or any kind of lesser punishment, he should have been kept in jail. but what good is he doing us now? and this just goes to show kids that even if you do screw up and then start doing better...well, you're gonna die anyway.

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I think he was keeping a lot less kids out of gangs than his gang was drawing in to them. And his message to kids was that you can commit heinous crimes and then go to your grave refusing to accept personal responsability for the lives you shattered. That you can taunt the survivors of your victims and brag of your crimes to friends, and then find God but never find it in you to apologize or express any remorse at all. He worked to try to form and maintain a gang and gang connections while he was still on death row, so there was no way he'd given up on gang life, and he really didn't try to make people believe he had. He refused to give up any active Crips, people he knew that were out there still murdering and recruiting young people. He continued to protect them. His own son has murdered for the Crips. Besides, those children's books... they're actually written by a WOMAN who was just 'inspired' to milk this cash cow after corresponding with Williams. No one even really knew that he had founded the Crips until he began to aggressively use the fact to publicize himself from prison. His Nobel Peace Prize nomination was pretty widely acknowledged to have originally been really nothing more than a publicity stunt to draw attention to the death penalty by its opponents, but then uninformed people took it and ran with it and bought into Tookie's alternate reality.
And as for that last part... if Tookie's death were to teach kids that you can't go on killing sprees, be a robber, be a drug addict, terrorize those weaker than you, and devote yourself to a gang for your whole entire life and just 'make it up' to society later without facing the punishment you KNEW you'd face if you were caught, well... I'm just not seeing where that is some big tragedy. Sorry, kids, but if you are a serial killer, and then start doing better, G.P. Girl is right, your butt is still gonna get nailed to the wall. Your actions have consequences, and being good later doesn't mean you can escape them. That is something most young people need to learn. If his death were able to teach them that, like you suggest, then I'd say he's doing us a whole hell of a lot more good dead than he ever did alive.

I agree Allecto, the only thing that keeping him alive was going to teach was that you can commit murder or any other crime and then change your tune after your caught and not have to pay for it...I think the message needs to get out in this world that you and only you are held accountable for your actions, maybe if these criminals see that if you commit murder then you get the death penalty they will think twice about it... instead of thinking oh well if i decide later on that im sorry they will not punish me to the full extent, and yes i think Tookie is a lot better off for this world dead.

Im sick of hearing on the news, radio etc how he is some sort of hero and what good he was doing for society , he was a monster and thats that.

He is definatly not a hero and i'm sure he has killed way for than just four people (whether directly or indirectly) but the point is he is doing some good now. which is more than other people are doing. even if he's just keeping every 1 out of 10 kids that would normally have joined a gang out, he is a doing good and until we can do the same, i dont think its right to kill him. i dont think people should have glorified him so much, but i think our country is to focused on revenge when we could be using something to help our society. i'm ure i would feel differently if i were one of the victims families, but then that would be personal bias and thats a whole other topic...

GP Girl im not trying to fight you on this :) , just wondering where is this evidence that he has kept so many kids out of gangs that all his supporters are claiming? (Not calling you a supporter) How does anyone know he has kept anyone from getting involved in a gang? And how is he even doing this ? By writing a childrens book? LOL :D

Books do not keep kids out of gangs.

It's more complicated then that, It's enviroment, home, family and education.

PARENTS make the most difference.

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If some of those kids had a good parental/familial base there would be a nudge in the direction of education.

When you have a good education you don't have to worry about falling into the gang world. As it was, the Tookster wasn't anywhere near the point of being an educated person. He wasn't too smart to start off with- his admission to being the co-founder of a street gang didn't win him any points-

I think that he had a chance to totally distance himself from the gang angle..

He didn't denounce it and by NOT doing that he just distanced himself from us living beings on the planet.

I wouldn't even bury him-why disgrace sacred ground?

First off the "Tookster" sounds so funny :D

Oh and i was laughing at childrens book saving the youth from gangs, im pretty sure that that so called childrens book he claims to have written did not keep anyone off the streets of gang life, thats why i wanted evidence of someone who came out and said Tookie kept them from joining a gang,,,

i have to tell u this though i was listening to the radio this morning and there still talking about it and this black lady called up and was mad that Tookies was sent to death then went on to talk about how wonderful he was for society and children, then the host asked what about how he refused to applogize to the families and she actually said that it was the families problem becuase they needed to learn forgiveness and that Tookie cannot be held accountable for something he did 25 yrs ago,,,i guess after a certain amount of time u no longer are held accountable for your actions, LOL Isnt that nice? haha

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Originally Posted by senorita02

i have to tell u this though i was listening to the radio this morning and there still talking about it and this black lady called up and was mad that Tookies was sent to death then went on to talk about how wonderful he was for society and children, then the host asked what about how he refused to applogize to the families and she actually said that it was the families problem becuase they needed to learn forgiveness and that Tookie cannot be held accountable for something he did 25 yrs ago,,,i guess after a certain amount of time u no longer are held accountable for your actions, LOL Isnt that nice? haha

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The scariest part about that is these people can vote and dial a phone.

Stupid is genetic too!

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Originally Posted by senorita02

... then the host asked what about how he refused to applogize to the families and she actually said that it was the families problem becuase they needed to learn forgiveness and that Tookie cannot be held accountable for something he did 25 yrs ago,,,i guess after a certain amount of time u no longer are held accountable for your actions, LOL Isnt that nice? haha

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This is why Tookie would have wanted more black people on his jury and what I was talking about earlier in my post about how juries think. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by senorita02

one lady said "he is the sweetest man to ever live" or something like that.

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And lots of people said that about Ted Bundy too.... :eek:

Your right Lady Zana, i find it amazing and disgusting all at once how people are so fascinated by serial killers that they want to marry them and send them fan mail. Like suddenly there superheros, and didnt just murder, rape, kill and chop up there victims! :rolleyes:

What really tees me off is how the media tries to glamorize these criminals. I've watched "Headliners and Legends" on tv and I've seen stories of Jeffery Dahlmer, Betty Broderick, Bambi Bambenick, Charles Manson!! :eek: Makes me sick!! :mad: Let these crimes remain in our history books to learn from, but for God's sake, don't memorialize them!!! It's feeding into their heinious crimes and sick minds!!

Headliners and Legends certainly should not be the heading for those kind of storys. I watch American Justice and Court Tv. Is that show on the same channel?? Or is it a special channel like Discovery?

My whole family think he got what he desuved.