Sep. 11th Picture!

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Originally posted by jackiesdaisy1935
Well, I for one will not post in PetTalk anymore if I have to listen to these people with their nasty dispositions, all they are looking for are arguments, not discussions, I will post in Dog of the Day, Pet of the Day and Cat of the Day. I can't say I care to associate with people like this, I don't think religion has anything to do with it, I don't care for their language either, I thought we were above this kind of thing, I guess not.
Jackie

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I only stated my opinion as many others have. If that will put you off from posting in Pet Talk, too bad then. Just as other people have their right to express their opinion that they believe in god, us non-believers have the same right too. Not everyone in this world believes in god and it has to be accepted. I personally don't have problems with those who do believe, just as long as they leave others alone who don't.

Well, I'm really glad to see this thread still open and it's really nice to see some people here who actually agree with some of the things I've said and respects everyone's views.

jackiesdaisy1935:

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I fail to see how anyone has used nasty words or whatever. And I think this is developing to be a nice discussion, I'm sorry you can't take hearing both sides.

zippy-kat:
I'd be interested in hearing your personal experiences.

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Originally posted by SugarGirl
What if it was my sacred mission to spread the word that God didn't exist? What if I took every chance to make sure that everyone knew believing in God was like believing in the Tooth Fairy? Would that offend you? But, hey, I'm just doing it because I love you and don't want you to waste your life.

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Well said!

popcornbird:

Please read the above quote and STOP praying for me. I'm serious. And just because I didn't bother reading through the whole site that you posted a link to does not mean I am close-minded. I simply just didn't have the time to read it, and besides I have read the same arguments hundreds of times before and I find them to be very weak. Also, why are you ignoring my comment about your "your animals love God" statement?

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Originally posted by popcornbird
God created you, and me, and everything in the heavens and the earth. To say such a thing about God, Who created you, gave you health, filled your life with bounties, gave you your family, pets, and all, is worse that insulting your parents, who have raised you with love and spent all these many years caring for you; this is just an example. God is the most compassionate and most merciful, but God rewards people for their good deeds, and punishes them for their wrong-doings.

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Since I don't belive in God, why would it still be a bad thing to say something like that? And for a second, let's say your God does exist, he is not compassionate or merciful AT ALL. Let's take the whole pharao in Egypt thing for example. He kills the pharaos son because the pharao refuses to let the slaves go free, right? Now, what did the son have to do with that? If your God wanted to punish someone, shouldn't he have punished the pharao himself, who refused to let go of the slaves? But no, instead he murders an innocent child. Way to go there mr loving god. And then he forces one of the guys in the bible (can't remember his name right now) to sacrifice his son and stops him right before he actually kills him with his only reason being "oh, I just wanted to test you". That's really compassionate isn't it? And what about all the animal sacrifices? I'm sure the sheep who's blood were put on doors were all happy with it, because they belive in God after all, right popcornbird?

Aside from all the scientific facts and all the errors and contradictions in the bible I have several more personal reasons why I don't belive in a god. I have to bike off to school now so I cannot start talking more about that, but I want you all to think about one thing:

God must love wars.

Think about it... When two countries are fighting, let's take the USA and Pakistan for example now. The people in USA says "God bless America! We will prevail for he is on the good people's side; ours!". The people in Pakistan goes "Praise Allah! He will help us smithe those terrible greedy Americans!". Every side of a war says things like that and belive "God" is on their side. All wars are based on religion. It's the truth. Think about the crusades... Or the witch burning... Or anything! It's all the same...

Well... I gotta run now so bye for now!

My mistake, I meant to say Afghanistan and not Pakistan. However, you can drop your little sarcastic smileys and stop trying to make me out to be a moron all the time, because it's not working. It was just an example anyways, and goes for EVERY country in the world who has ever been in a war.

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Originally posted by zippy-kat


Sounds like a REALLY neat card! Do you still have it? I'd like to see the pic!

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No, I wish I did!

that while I'm probably just opening another can of worms, here...9/11 didn't happen just for religious reasons. The religious often gets mixed with the political and vice versa. This was in response to Kohala's entry.

As for Wendy and JackieDaisy, I believe that I stated my opinions in a very open minded and tolerant way. It seems that the simple fact that I am not a "believer" makes me rude. And I think that speaks more of you and your views than mine.

I've also noticed how God and country have been mixed together. I don't think God has anything to do with patriotism. I am an American and an agnostic, and not believing in God does not make me unpatriotic. I might also add that it has nothing to do with blindly accepting everything the government does and says. To me, the highest call of patriotism lies in participation and criticism. Without it, we will never progress.

Ann, it is very hard to be an agnostic/atheist in this world. Especially in America. People will constantly challenge your beliefs and try to change you. When I was younger I would get very angry about this, but I've mellowed and just accepted it. But don't lose that fire, entirely, but you will get more comfortable in your beliefs as you get older. :)

I wasn't going to get involved in this but now feel I must. There have been about three disruptive threads since I have been at Pet Talk (2 yrs.) They didn't start out that way but some members got rude, the last being a 19 year old boy who was asked to leave. In my humble opinion, this thread is heading very much in that direction and should be closed. It is not pet-related. If members want to PM each other that's fine, but let's stop the public bickering.

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Originally posted by Dixieland Dancer
I do not believe in the big band theory and think evolution is ...

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I have to agree with you there, but still think Count Basie and Duke Ellington are great. (SORRY - NO OFFENCE MEANT!) ;)

Personally, I feel that religious beliefs are usually a way of trying to get to grips with our own insecurity. My own solution to this incomprehensible world is to hide myself behind a thick veil of humour, preferably black. :D
Now I'm not sure whether I dare post the Fister Christmas Card this year, I wouldn't want to offend anyone. But lets wait and see.
Tolerance, compassion and understanding, that's what we need a lot more of!!

With respect

John

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Originally posted by Randi

My own solution to this incomprehensible world is to hide myself behind a thick veil of humor, preferably black. :D
Now I'm not sure whether I dare post the Fister Christmas Card this year, I wouldn't want to offend anyone. But lets wait and see.
John

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Ditto John with that black humour! And do post that x-mas card, I'm sure it's fabulous! :D

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Originally posted by Pam
In my humble opinion, this thread is heading very much in that direction and should be closed. It is not pet-related. If members want to PM each other that's fine, but let's stop the public bickering.

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Well I actually think this theard is quite good. I don't think that anyone on here is trying to personally attack one another. I just feel that the way we feel sometimes makes it seem like someone is attacking us. I think this is a theraputic thread for some. But hey what do I know?

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Originally posted by Dixieland Dancer
I do not believe in the big band theory and think evolution is ...
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I have to agree with you there, but still think Count Basie and Duke Ellington are great. (SORRY - NO OFFENCE MEANT!)

Thanks for the laugh! I did not realize I had written band instead of Bang! I enjoyed your humor and I personally am a fan of Bennie Goodman!! :D

Glad to hear that you like Benny Goodman Dixie, he is actually my favourite too. I especially love all the sextet stuff with Charlie Christian. (Since this is about physics, I was probably subconsciously thinking of "The Atomic Mr Basie!)
We also have Ben Webster (not to mention Søren Kierkegaard and Hans Christian Andersen) buried just a couple of hundred yards from us in our local cemetry.

John

My best friend is an anthiest and I am a Christian. We agree that we do not agree on religion. We seldom discuss our views about this, since we are both dead set in our ways....and we never try to convert each other. I accept her choice and decisions and she accepts mine. I believe it is called tolerance, yes?

I think this topic is a good one, just too bad that so many are letting it get out of hand and saying rather rude things to each other.

Have fun kids! :)

QUOTE FROM ANN Maybe Niina is right... This is probably just a waste of time and will do nothing but make everyone think I'm ********. Oh well... A few good men will do nothing when evil triumphs, right? LOL

Ann if the shoe fits............I was not going to post however I resent the posts you write, it is always negative about our country. I could care less whether you believe in God or not, not my problem. It is in vogue right now to bash America, no matter that we send aid and money to many, many needy countries.
Has anyone on here used Sweden as an example? please refrain in your religious discussions from bashing the USA, I am not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, I don't know of anyone on this site who uses anyone else's country as a bad example and I resent the fact that you use ours.
As far as religion I don't care what anyone believes and I don't shove religion down anyone's throat, I don't even usually talk about it. It is a personal thing whether you believe or not, that is a right we have here in the United States, freedom of religion.
Ann you were on here before and I believe either left or were banned because of your behaviour. I thought you had changed and I was wrong.
Soledad, I don't even know you, I don't recall calling you rude, if you felt that I did I am sorry, I respect everyone having an opinion, whether it agrees with mine or not, but sometimes it's in the way that it is presented, in the matter of religion I don't care what people believe, that's their business, I do resent the bashing of our country by a few and I don't recall any Americans on here bashing other countries. I would appreciate the topic sticking to religion if that's what people want to discuss and leave the United States out of it.
Jackie

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Originally posted by Pam
I wasn't going to get involved in this but now feel I must. There have been about three disruptive threads since I have been at Pet Talk (2 yrs.) They didn't start out that way but some members got rude, the last being a 19 year old boy who was asked to leave. In my humble opinion, this thread is heading very much in that direction and should be closed. It is not pet-related. If members want to PM each other that's fine, but let's stop the public bickering.

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I don't get why this thread should be closed just because you find it to be "disruptive". If the topic of this thread bothers you, then simply don't read it anyome. I don't see why everyone who enjoys a deeper discussion should have that taken away just cause a few can't take to hear it. One of your reasons why this should be closed is cause it's not pet-related, but the sad truth is that if I had not spoken up with my original comment and this would just have kept on being a "God bless the USA" thread then you would NOT have complained or asked for the thread to be closed.That is UNFAIR and is the ONLY reason I started this argument in the first place. Why can't you see that? And yeah, Andie is partly right. It does help me get some steam out about this all.

Soledad, it seems that Bush thinks that patriotism and being a Christian is the same thing though. I can't find the exact quote right now, but it goes something like this "Real patriots worship the almighty God. If they don't belive in God they should not live in this country. I hope the military will really re-think their decision". He said that when the military said they would allow Wiccan rituals. Like I said, that ISN'T the exact quote, so don't nitpick me. And I know you're right about my temper, I know I should try to be calmer about it... Sorry! Kudos to you and the other non-belivers here who manage their calm, I'm really sorry if I'm ruining it for you all :(

As for the private reasons I mentioned before... Aside from bible contradictions and scientific facts that go against the bible and the whole thing with the pharao and so on there's personal reasons too... If your loving and compassionate God existed he would not have allowed the following:

My grandpa on my mom's side dying right before I was born, he never got to see me and I never got to meet him.

My grandma on my mom's side dying right before she got to see one of her wishes come true; me starting school.

My beloved cat Titti dying when I was out of the country, I did not even get to say goodbye to her or get to pet her when she fell asleep for the last time.

My greatgrandma passing away that same time when I was gone, I didn't even get to go to her funeral.

My great grandpa also passing away shortly after my great grandma, when I wasn't there.

My grandpa slowly withering away from leukemia.

Me getting a bloodclot in my eye and loosing vision without a chance in hell of regaining it.

Me getting diabetes type 2.

My boyfriend (who was an EXTREMELY devout Christian, he even went to a private Christian school for years) getting cancer in his spinal cord. He spent forever in the hospital going through surgery after surgery, and he has several problems to this very day thanks to it, many mental thanks to scars and so on. Everyone from his church told him God was just "testing" him, but you know what? A loving God would never do such a thing.

Last time I was at the cemetary there was a new grave for a little child, with a little teddybear holding an envelope in it's hands, a letter written by another small child, probably a sibling, a goodbye letter marked by tears.

I could go on and on FOREVER but this is just making me too upset, so sorry.

Oh, I just saw jackiesdaisy1935's post. Heh... And you call ME rude? Atleast I never called you an ********.

Anyways, dig your signature. LOL

I was never banned from Pet Talk. I willingly left a long time ago right after I just signed up for the very same reason as I am posting this: I was getting fed up with all the "God bless the USA" stuff. But of course, bring up the past if you so wish. I thought you Christians were supposed to be oh-so forgiving?

And as for your comment about the USA having freedom of religion (which basically every other country in the world has, and not just your "special" country) did you somehow forget that you are SUPPOSED to have a thing called freedom of speech (which also basically every other country has)? That "freedom" of yours should allow me to say whatever I please about your country. That was a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

And I thought you weren't gonna post here anymore? I must have read wrong.

Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. - George Bernard Shaw

Can anything be stupider than that a man has the right to kill me because he lives on the other side of a river and his ruler has a quarrel with mine, though I have not quarrelled with him? - Blaise Pascal

BTW, I thought of another reason... I once talked about how much I loved animals to an American pastor. Do you know what he said to me? He said "Animals are just here for food and then have no soul. I mean after all, if God didn't want us to eat them why would he have made them out of meat". Lovely huh?