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Can you clarify this a bit? Does this mean if one of the babies was sick you'd treat it different than if it was a pet? Pets get put to sleep and feeders just get killed? If so that is one of the worst things I have heard in a while. They are animals regardless if they are food or not. They deserve respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by king2005
Why have you NOT taken him to the vet? :( :mad: I'm sorry but this has me steamed! How sad for this poor rat. You are just letting him suffer! He's probably sneezing stuff out because you have avoided getting him the proper vet care. Just because he is inbred (it's not that bad with rats if you would listen and do research. Ask many of the top breeders. A lot of the traits we have are set through inbreeding/linebreeding) does not mean this poor guy has to have his tombstone chizzled already. You are very irresponsible. Just so you know it's very common for male rats to have an orangish color to their skin. It's caused by the protein the skin creates, and males just happen to have more than females. If they have too much protein in their diet it gets worse. It can also be caused from having a dirty cage. Also, if I was that rat and had such a horrible life living in that house I'd probably be a bit aggressive too. Just a thought. Maybe you should take care of your animals.
PTS is death by a vet, as in the animal is given a shot to put it to sleep & then a shot to kill it in its sleep.Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
You cannot PTS a feeder as the toxins in its body will go into the animal feeding on it (very bad!), there for it is killed. Cows, chicken, pigs, deer are all killed.. pets are PTS...
Quote:
Originally Posted by king2005
I understand now. I thought you meant feeders that were sick and weren't going to be used as food would just be killed.
I'm sorry, but I still feel that these feeders could be cared for better.
Grissim isn't a feeder (you don't name feeders, that would be mentaly cruel). Hes a pet (I play with them, hold them, let them run about outside the cage, name them) that I use in breeding.. well not anymore (breeding wise).Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
Depending on how ill the rat is, depends on if it needs to be PTS or not. I will not give my rats drugs to cure an illness. I will remove the rat, make it comfy, I'll give it herbals, but not drugs. I'm 100% against pumping feeder animals (including farm animals) full of drugs, as it goes into the being eatting it & then causes issues (cancers, etc) in the being. Biggest reason I wont eat beef from the usa anymore.. Canada's beef (& milk products) isn't much better, but the usa's meet still has more meds & crap pumped into the cows!
I support natural farms 100% & do the same with my feeder animals (the parents of the feeders). I will use polysporn & herbals, but if the animal isn't able to recover, then its PTS.
I myself do everything I can NOT to take drugs. I will put up with a cold & they usually last about a month for me & then thats it, no more colds for that year. Now that I've been fighting all my illnesses on my own, its rare that I get really sick like I use to when I would take meds.
So no I'm not being irresponsible with these rats, you just have a different opinion on this whole drug issue (Organic).
I understand you are saying you don't beleive in pumping feeders full of drugs, that could make the other animals they are fed to ill, but at the same time you say Grissim is a pet, not a feeder, and won't be used for breeding, so why woudl it be bad to try to get him help rather than suffer?? If he's that sick why not either put him to sleep NOW, or get him vet care so he doesn't linger in that state and just slowly get worse until he dies. That seems cruel to just let him waste away rather than putting him down now, or getting him vet care. Just wondering why not, since he's not a feeder.
But you said Grissim isn't a feeder. Also you said he's inbred so you won't be breeding him anymore. What's the harm of treating him with meds if it will save his life? He isn't going to be eaten and he isn't going to father anymore babies. It sounds to me like you are making up excuses not to take him to the vet.Quote:
Originally Posted by king2005
Also, how do you make a rat "comfy" without meds?
I'm still very concerned...I'm still miffed on this one. Killed how, exactly? Feeder or not, an animal deserves a humane death. Surely putting one feeder to sleep would not cause the animal who would have eaten it to starve, seeing as you have bred feeder rats already. Personally, I do not squash spiders, flies or wasps, and definitely could not 'kill' a rat.Quote:
You cannot PTS a feeder as the toxins in its body will go into the animal feeding on it (very bad!), there for it is killed. Cows, chicken, pigs, deer are all killed.. pets are PTS...
I just have to ask, what size cage are all these animals in? How often do you clean it? I really do not want these creatures to be stored up like sausages. I am glad that you disagree with some of the drugs used in the meat trade, but please, I think everyone here wants better care for your feeders. Your turtle eats them, so you owe them. Everything has a right to live, so perhaps if we begin to hear more positive things about your rats rather than you telling us that your putting one down simply because its inbred, you can expect more helpful and kinder comments.
Please, if I could show you that I'm on my knees I would. PLEASE please please take a little more responsibility for these animals. They've been on my mind for the past few days.
I'm going to hug Tia and remind her what a beautiful girl she is.
It was complicated (not getting into that), but Grissim will be PTS this afternoon. Hes already gone from my care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vela
(I swear I said this already) I do kill the feeders as humanily as possible. I spent 6 months working, planing & researching the best way for an animal to be killed. My method causes very little to no stress & almost no fear. No pain is involved either & its a more natural way to die. I cannot & will not explain how I do it in a post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Z
Do I really have to repeat that Grissim is being PTS again? PLEASE read all the posts (everyones posts too, so mine make some sence.. or so I hope).
The rats are in a 4foot by 2 foot by 2 foot cage. Its a rabbit cage, so there are bars on the sides & top & its a plastic bottom, so there is no worry about bubble foot.
I clean the cage between 2-3 times a week. When the babies are born the nests will be cleaned daily. I clean the cage in my Shower stall with bleach & hot water (bleach works best in hot water). Then I spray the bottom of the cage with the lice spray. Add lots of Aspen bedding, Dump the food in the large dog bowl, scrub it with bleach & hot water in my bathroom sink, & add fresh food when its dry(if the dish is clean & they didn't fill it with shavings, then I wait till the next cleaning). I change their 3 water bottles everyday & wash them with hot water only, but use bleach & hot water on the metal spout thingy.
the 2ed cage is a Hamster cage. its strictly a temp cage. I put all the rats in it to clean out the big cage. They are in it for about 30-60 mins. Thats when I usually spoil them with a fancy drink from the mini hamster water bottle (the bottle is useless other wise) & give them a slice of bread (the heal, I hate the heal).
I play with them every night before I go to bed (thats also when i do the water changes). Shawn is still scared of them so he will only pet Vodka on the head with his bare finger, but he will make baby sounds to her & always wants to spoil her with a carrot.
Once a rat is called a pet/breeder, they will never become food for another pet, thats why I name them & play with them.
Vodka
Vixy
Squeeks (thinking of changing her name as shes quiet now)
Takelia (sp I have no idea)
Baileys
This is terrible. You are putting down your pet rat and show no sadness in ANY of your posts! It's mentioned only as a matter of fact and that's it. This is so ridiculous. You have no right to be a pet owner or to consider yourself a pet lover. :mad: You are not handling this right. I'm done posting and reading. I feel bad for the rats that are in your so called care.
And that cage is not adequate for 50+ rats. Not even close.
According to the rat cage calculator that cage should comfortably house 8 rats! EIGHT! Not 50+
Here's the link. Rat Cage Calculator
I am in complete agreement. Tia, on her own, is in a bigger cage than that!Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
And actually, I have read all the posts, I've just not found an adequate answer. To say that you won't explain how you plan to deal with the rats which don't quite reach standard leaves me very suspicious indeed.
BTW, it's bumble foot.
The cage is for 5 females! The babies will only be there a short time, until they are removed. The rats sleep in their boxes, so having the babies staying in there is not making any difference in the size of the cage.. its not like they'll be running around or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by My Peanuts
As I SAID before (again with me repeating things!!). I already delt with Rats in the SAME state as Grissim & with all the meds & VET Bills, the rat still suffered in the end! I AM NOT PUTTING ANOTHER PET THROUGH THAT!! ITS WRONG TO MAKE IT SUFFER JUST BECAUSE I WANT IT AS A PET & WANT IT ON THIS EARTH LONGER, ITS NOT MY RIGHT (yes I'm yelling now, because people aren't reading everything!)!!!
Ummmm I'm typing on the internet..soo.. How on earth do you know how I feel?? I don't cry for all the deaths of my pets. Do I feel sad YES, do I feel like crying NO, did I take my time & decide what was best & what needed to be done YES.
Guess I have to type this in more detail for you, I thought you understood how an animal was PTS (as I already said its done by the vet in an earlier post).Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Z
Grissim will be handed over to a vet. The vet will bring Grissim into the back. The vet will stick a needle in Grissim's belly & inject him with a drug that'll put him to sleep. Then they'll stick him with a 2ed needle in the belly that'll stop his heat & kill him while he's sleeping so he wont feel any pain when his heart stops beating.
I so didn't want to type that kind of detail!