Just wanted to add this. There wouldn't be so many people trying to
enter this country at any cost, if there were not thousands of businesses
so willing to hire them at very low rate of pay.They would rather hire the
cheap labor.
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Just wanted to add this. There wouldn't be so many people trying to
enter this country at any cost, if there were not thousands of businesses
so willing to hire them at very low rate of pay.They would rather hire the
cheap labor.
Hostility?Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
More like frustration.
Having worked for an HMO for YEARS I don't see the people that the County hospitals see...
Waiting 12-14 hours to see a doctor because the ER rooms are packed with people who do not have insurance is incredible. It is mostly illegal Immies who have colds or the flu....they see the doc and the billl bounces so you and I have to foot the bill.
In lost angeles we have had about 6 trauma centers close in the last few years.
You get hurt badly, more than likely you will be flown to a trauma center or die in an ER that is not ready to handle your type of trauma.
Why?
Because there are no beds, doctors or facilities available.... :eek:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizbud
I agree. In many ways, this is an employer issue wrapped up in politics.
If the employers didn't hire, the illegals wouldn't come. If we would enforce the current laws against hiring illegals, they couldn't come.
Now why exactly do you supposed the laws are not really enforced? Just ask yourself who really benefits from allowing it to continue?
(In this week's Tribune, an anonymous illegal worker described how her fast-food employer gets letters from the social security administration saying X number of SSNs were "not matching.")
So, do you think it's hard to figure out where they're working?
I myself believe in establishing a guest worker program as a way to manage it. If we want to hire them, then let's clean up the system and let them buy insurance, etc.
The hypocrisy of building walls and adding border patrols while hundreds of thousands of businesses benefit from the cheap labor really irks me, though.
.
I saw a guy on the news the other day that was complaining because he couldn't get a job after he graduates with his bachelor's degree because he's illegal. Ummm, how did you get that degree? Financial aid on a phony SSN? Excuse me. I didn't get a free education and I'm a born citizen. You just got a free ride and you're still complaining! Give me a break!
Both of my Grandfathers were born in Mexico and came over when they were only 2. The borders weren't closed then. They both fought for our country, are both decorated with many awards and ribbons and upon their return, were threatened to be deported because they weren't citizens. After they both showed their war accomplishements, they were both granted citizenship. They EARNED it. They didn't break the law, do what they *wanted* to do, then cry when they had no rights.
I better stop now...
My nephew was moving a bed, mattresses and other minor furniture in a truck a few weeks ago. He realized that he needed more ropes, cords, to tie everything down, or it would fall off of the truck on the freeway.
He stopped at a Home Depot to buy the cords. As he pulled into the parking lot, he was mobbed - mobbed - by men running around his truck. His first thought was that they were going to steal items off of the truck, so he drove off - never did buy anything at Home Depot.
But what I knew was that this mob of men are the usual group of 30 - 40 men hoping for some last minute job and a way to make some money.
How many more can we accept? Does that crowd turn into 60 - 90 - how many? And this is just one Home Depot - they are all like that. How many are in the families of these people at home - waiting for the Dad to bring home money for the day - in cash?
My cousin lives in CA and occasionally spouts off about something or another in an Email. He sent this today:
An American working in Mexico! From the other side of the fence.....
The following is from (Tom O'Malley) who was a Director with SW BELL in
Mexico City.
I spent five years working in Mexico. I worked under a tourist Visa for
three months and could legally renew it for three more months. After that
you were working Illegally. I was technically illegal for three weeks
waiting on the FM3 approval During that six months our Mexican and US
Attorneys were working to secure a permanent work visa called a FM3. It
was in addition to my US passport that I had to show each time I entered and left the country. Barbara's was the same except hers did not permit her to work. To apply for the FM3 I needed to submit the following notarized
originals (not copies) of my:
1. Birth certificate for Barbara and I.
2. Marriage certificate.
3. High school transcripts and proof of graduation.
4. College transcripts for every college I attended and proof of graduation.
5. Two letters of re commendation from supervisors I had worked for at
least one year.
6. A letter from The ST. Louis Chief of Police indication I had no
arrest record in the US and no outstanding warrants and was "a citizen in
good standing."
7. Finally; I had to write a letter about myself that clearly stated
why there was no Mexican Citizen with my skills and why my skills were
important to Mexico. We called it our "I am the greatest person on Earth" letter. It was fun to write. All of the above were in English that had to be
translated into Spanish and be certified as legal translations and our signatures notarized. It produced a folder about 1.5 inches thick with English on the left side and Spanish on the right.
Once they were completed Barbara and I spent about five hours
accompanied by a Mexican Attorney touring Mexican Government office
locations and being photographed and fingerprinted at least three times.
At each location and we remember at least four locations we instructed on
Mexican tax, labor, housing, and criminal law and that we were required to
obey their laws or face the consequences. We could not protest any of the
Governments actions or we would be committing a felony. We paid out four
thousand dollars in fees and bribes to complete the process. When this was
done we could legally bring in our household goods that were held by US
customs in Laredo Texas. This meant we has rented furniture in Mexico
while awaiting our goods. There were extensive fees involved here that the
company paid.
We could not buy a home and were required to rent at very high rates
and under contract and compliance with Mexican law. We were required to get a Mexican drivers license. This was an amazing process. The company arranged for the Licensing agency to come to our Headquarters location with their photography and finger print equipment and the laminating machine. We
showed our US license, were photographed and fingerprinted again and issued the license instantly after paying out a six dollar fee. We did not take a
written or driving test and never received instructions on the rules of
the road. Our only instruction was never give a policeman your license if
stopped and asked. We were instructed to hold it against the inside window
away from his grasp. If he got his hands on it you would have to pay
ransom to get it back. We then had to pay and file Mexican income tax annually using the number of our FM3 as our ID number. The companies Mexican accountants did this for us and we just signed what they prepared. I was about twenty legal size pages annually.
The FM 3 was good for three years and renewable for two more after
paying more fees. Leaving the country meant turning in the FM# and
certifying we were leaving no debts behind and no outstanding legal
affairs (warrants, tickets or liens) before our household goods were released to customs. It was a real adventure and If any of our Senators or Congressman went through it once they would have a different attitude toward Mexico. The Mexican Government uses its vast military and police forces to keep its citizens intimidated and compliant. They never protest at their White house or government offices but do protest daily in front of the United States Embassy.
The US embassy looks like a strongly reinforced fortress and during
most protests the Mexican Military surround the block with their men standing
shoulder to shoulder in full riot gear to protect the Embassy. These
protests are never shown on US or Mexican TV. There is a large public park
across the street where they do their protesting. Anything can cause a
protest such as proposed law changes in California or Texas.
Please feel free to share this with everyone who thinks we are being
hard on illegal immigrants.
I don't know about you, but my grandparents came here legally! They did the "tough, dirty work" that ALL Immigrants do - because it was a job! Something they couldn't find in Croatia. BUT it was not the streets paved with gold they had heard about... it took tremendous hard work and a generation or two of menial work, long hard hours in the coal mines, factories and Steel Mills to get to where we are today.Quote:
What did any of us do to earn our civil/citizen rights....except be born in the right place?????
They took what work they could get, paid their taxes and served in the military. They expected and got no special favors. They had to learn the language and exist in a complex foreign environment. My Grandmother had 11 children - all born at home with neighbors serving as midwives. One child died during childbirth. Why? Because they "had NO Health Insurance". My father and his brothers and sister went to "public" school initially speaking only Croatian. NO-ONE offered them any special attention. They taught classes in English and they were expected to pick it up. All my Uncles served in the military and 4 died on foreign soil during WWII and the Korean War. None of them graduated from High School! At 16 they were expected to get a job (my Grandfather's expectation) and make their own way. My father quit school in 8th grade (even though he was an Honor Student), lied about his age and enlisted in the Army. He worked his entire life as a manual laborer, digging graves, pumping gas and fixing other peoples cars. At one time (when all 3 of his boys were in college) he worked 3 jobs to pay the bills. All his kids went to college and now are working professionals and significantly contribute to society.
I know that many of you have the "same" story - just different names and locales. Point is - they did this all legally. Not hiding in any shadows but proudly paying their dues. They adopted their "new" country as opposed to expecting their new country to adopt them. The did not get and did not expect any special favors. I know that Latinos have it rough and those coming here illegally are desparate. BUT something has to be done to right the ship and fix the problem. A festering wound doesn't heal itself - it only gets worse.
So in answer to your query: I think we have "done a whole lot more" THAN JUST BEING BORN IN THE RIGHT PLACE!!!
I have thought about what I have done to earn my citizenship.
Nothing.
I do get on my knees often and realize that I do live in fairly decent country.
I do go on jags of being patriotic, sing the National Anthem before sporting events, look after my fellow man, try to be a civic minded person, learn another trivial fact about my country.
I have asked the security guards to fix the flag that flys over the parking lot on a windy game.
I know most of the rules concerning my flag. how to fold it, treat it when it becomes unflyable.
I didn't do anything to get my citizenship.
But I try to keep in good stead regarding the laws and the way it's run.
I respect the office of the country, but not the fools in the chairs.
There are many things l love about my country and many that I dislike.
I cringe on the days when I hear another stupid story that happens in my country-
I really cringe should it come out of Cah Lee Fuh Nee Ah..
But that goes with the territory.
I'll fight and probably die for my country, But I may as well for She has treated me right for all these years.
Have I earned my citizenship? Probably not.
Which should make anyone entering the country, anyone who desires to wrap themselves in my flag, more apt to follow the rules.
I cannot earn my citizenship, but they can.
That is why I feel oh, so lucky that I didn't have to.
Richard,
We all earn our citizenship every day by staying involved with what
goes on in the political arena in our name. By voting & speaking up we
may well prove lucky enough to live in a free society.
IMO we earn our citizenship by complying with the laws of the land, paying taxes, voting, performing civic duties like jury duty, volunteering, becoming politically active, exercising our freedoms. But I'll admit we are definitely at an advantage because our ancestors did the legwork of becoming naturalized US citizens. During all eras of American history there were immigrant groups at the bottom of the social totem pole. In the antebellum East and South it was the Irish. In the post-Civil War West it was the Chinese railroad workers. They worked hard, were abused, but sucked it up, and made a better life for their kids. 'Nuff said...
I still have my FM3 from when I worked in Mexico. Oddly, I did not have
\to go through such an onerous process as described.
Read this thread..."those people" is not a phrase of respect....
My grandparents came here for the same reason. But...and I am just asking to further the discussion....what WERE the requirements then? Does anyone know? I know the health one, but other than $$$ what did you have to do?
I was curious also. I found this link that contains general & specific
requirements for immigrants. It also has a history of the immigration
laws & requirements. In the general requirements is one that requires
the person to be able to read, write & speak english. I think that one
alone would cut out a lot of people. :confused:
http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/index.htm
I think that many of the posts here miss the point! Americans - Old and newly immigrated came here "legally" for a better life for themselves, but mostly their kids. And of course, there has always been some level of illegality or questionable admittance, but those who came here under those conditions (along with those who came legally) "DEMANDED" nothing.
They felt lucky enough to be here and did whatever they could to stay and gain eventual citizenship. They demanded nothing because they felt they were owed nothing. It irks me to see so many people who are here illegally to stand up and demand to be recognised (??? - one might think they would want to keep a low profile) and be given the rights (in some instances, exceed the rights) of naturalized citizens!
Exact same things that popped into my head.Quote:
Originally Posted by momoffuzzyfaces
But..."demanding" is something everyone does more of than in the good old days....whenever that was. But to your point....what about Emma Goldman for example? In the early 1900's there were many politically active immigrants.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBS DAD
It is interesting to read in the link Lizbud posted, the process has never been "pure." And of course, those rules are for citizenship not immigration.
I thought the point of the thread to be....immigration reform. It has become a discussion of the behavior of "those people."