Politics and religion.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Gosh Liz...can't interfer with their Second Amendment Rights! Uzzis in our schools, churches, shopping malls, movie theaters, hospitals, workplaces, and town hall meetings...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

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In Arizona, you CANNOT carry in the following places -

1. Anywhere you can consume alcohol on the premises. If you can drink alcohol there, you cannot legally carry a firearm there.

2. School grounds (K-12, Colleges, Universities, etc.)

3. Private property (stores, malls, etc.) that post a sign stating that they do not permit firearms. Also, they can prohibit without a sign by informing you directly that they do not permit firearms on their property.

4. Federal Office Buildings (BIG no no)

5. Some State Government buildings including courthouses.

6. Post Offices

7. Nuclear or Hydroelectric Generating Stations

8. Polling places on election day

9. National Parks or Game Preserves

10. Correctional Facilities

11. Airports (inside the security cordon)

12. Indian reservations ( You need to check with the tribal police, it is about a 50/50 split who does and who doesn't.)

I believe they just amended that law...you can now take your Uzzi into a bar or any other establishment that serves liquor.

guns in bars

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

And what was the point? To merely endanger the people who were there, but not the president? Does a weapon like that REALLY belong in a crowd of people?

I somehow expect if I walked around Columbine High School carrying a weapon like that - people would be appalled. Oh what I am I saying...maybe not.

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I asked my husband that very question - what was the point? Personally, I thought it was pretty stupid, but legally they can do it.

Douglas did say that in some places it is legal to carry open, but the minute you remove the gun from the holster/carrier it become illegal, and off you go to jail.

I do not know the technicalities of taking a gun slung over your shoulder off to shift the weight or taking a gun off your shoulder to kill...and when that becomes illegal...nor do I particularly want to know.

I realize they were legally carrying those guns. There are many things that are legal.

And stupid and sick and reprehensible.

There is a thread about little girls in beauty pagents. Those are legal...but stupid, sick and reprehensible.

JUst because the guy was black he should not be able to carry?;)

LOLOLOLOL, if he was white it would be the second coming of Hitler.

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No Shoes
No Shirt
No Shotguns!!!


I thought it was great that this citizen went out with a gun on his back.

I can assure you that both men were treated with respect for the day! Since the prez has HCR, nukes in the hands of the Pakis and what to do with Afghanistan on his mind, he should not be bothered.

He is the prez, you know?

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

JUst because the guy was black he should not be able to carry?;)

LOLOLOLOL, if he was white it would be the second coming of Hitler.

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I do not know the race of any of the men who carried guns.

Is that important to you?

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Originally Posted by Grace

They were outside - the President was inside - none of them got anywhere near him. And if they had wanted to go inside, they would have relinquished the weapons.

In Arizona, one can legally carry just as they were doing. As was stated in the CNN article -

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I remember President Kennedy being killed in public by a nut with a rifle.:(
There seems to be no way to limit the sale of guns to stable people.

I'm squealing like a teen!


I just heard that Carly Fiorina is going to run against that twit, Bobwa Boxer!


Carly for Cah lee fuh Nee Ah?


DONE!:D:D:D:D

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

I'm squealing like a teen!


I just heard that Carly Fiorina is going to run against that twit, Bobwa Boxer!


Carly for Cah lee fuh Nee Ah?


DONE!:D:D:D:D

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Oh please. You and the two other people who will vote for her....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by lizbud

I remember President Kennedy being killed in public by a nut with a rifle.:(
There seems to be no way to limit the sale of guns to stable people.

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I just finished a book about the Secret Service. Back in 1963 Kennedy was warned, repeatedly, not to go to Dallas. By Senator Fulbright, by Adlai Stevenson, and others. Back then only 2 Secret Service agents had gone to Dallas to check things out. Not one building on the route was checked. These days, whenever there is a motorcade, buildings along the route are checked. Empty offices are sealed shut. Presidential cars are bullet proof.

Today, Oswald would not have been able to reach that window. Kennedy would not have been in an open car.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

This assault rifle at presidential event makes me so very sad and so very sick and so very ashamed.

Are these men so desperate for attention or so small that they must take assault rifles with them??

Where are the people who were so concerned about Air Force One being flown over Manhattan...that was so frightening...and this isn't????

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In modern times, I have never heard of an American being saddened, sickened, or ashamed of another American exercising thier Rights before. This isnt any of the horrible things our country did or condoned of in the past, these are decent law abiding citizens.

They arent desperate for attention, they are tired of their elected officials riding roughshod over their Rights. Way to insult law abiding Americans.

These men were polite, patient, and understand with the pro Obama supporters that were bussed in for the rally.

Arizona wasnt subjected to a horrifying event the way New York City was, way to belittle an entire city.

P.S. Thats a carbine, not an assault rifle.

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Originally Posted by lizbud

Where are the President's security people? It might be legal by a State's
statute, but they shouldn't permit this around any President. There are two
many wingnuts that might think they are right to kill a public official.

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According to U.S. Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan when asked if the people carrying firearms posed a threat to the POTUS,

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Originally Posted by Ed Donovan

Of course not.

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Source.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Gosh Liz...can't interfer with their Second Amendment Rights! Uzzis in our schools, churches, shopping malls, movie theaters, hospitals, workplaces, and town hall meetings...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Cant have people legally carrying firearms in public, that might endanger criminals.

Its Uzi BTW.

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Originally Posted by Grace

They were outside - the President was inside - none of them got anywhere near him. And if they had wanted to go inside, they would have relinquished the weapons.

In Arizona, one can legally carry just as they were doing. As was stated in the CNN article -

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The POTUS was never in any danger, so lets criminalize law abiding citizens is what they are saying. Lets not let the law get in the way of irrational thinking Grace.:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

And what was the point? To merely endanger the people who were there, but not the president? Does a weapon like that REALLY belong in a crowd of people?

I somehow expect if I walked around Columbine High School carrying a weapon like that - people would be appalled. Oh what I am I saying...maybe not.

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Who exactly was endangered? The people who fear inanimate objects? How many O supporters in that crowd were carrying a knife or know martial arts? Arent they considerred a risk to the public at large, and if not why not?

Alot less kids might have died at Columbine if somebody did have an AR 15 carbine on hand, not you obviously.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

I believe they just amended that law...you can now take your Uzzi into a bar or any other establishment that serves liquor.

guns in bars

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From the article ES posted.

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The measure would ban drinking while packing and allow restaurants to deny entry to gun-toting citizens by posting a sign next to their liquor license.

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I can see how that would put alot of people at risk. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

I do not know the technicalities of taking a gun slung over your shoulder off to shift the weight or taking a gun off your shoulder to kill...and when that becomes illegal...nor do I particularly want to know.

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Ignorance must be bliss.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

I realize they were legally carrying those guns. There are many things that are legal.

And stupid and sick and reprehensible.

There is a thread about little girls in beauty pagents. Those are legal...but stupid, sick and reprehensible.

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Stupid and sick and reprehensible for demonstrating American Rights, another first Ive seen. Stupid and sick and reprehensible for being law abiding citizens.

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

JUst because the guy was black he should not be able to carry?;)

LOLOLOLOL, if he was white it would be the second coming of Hitler.

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Exactly!! IT would be a much bigger story if it had been a white guy with the AR 15.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

I do not know the race of any of the men who carried guns.

Is that important to you?

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I think this is the first time Ive seen where ES has colorblind glasses on.

This guy looks really dangerous.:rolleyes:

http://files.myopera.com/akpostal/al...54/Patriot.jpg

http://files.myopera.com/akpostal/al...4/Patriot2.jpg

http://files.myopera.com/akpostal/al...4/Patriot3.jpg

Youtube vid.

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Originally Posted by lizbud

I remember President Kennedy being killed in public by a nut with a rifle.:(
There seems to be no way to limit the sale of guns to stable people.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grace

I just finished a book about the Secret Service. Back in 1963 Kennedy was warned, repeatedly, not to go to Dallas. By Senator Fulbright, by Adlai Stevenson, and others. Back then only 2 Secret Service agents had gone to Dallas to check things out. Not one building on the route was checked. These days, whenever there is a motorcade, buildings along the route are checked. Empty offices are sealed shut. Presidential cars are bullet proof.

Today, Oswald would not have been able to reach that window. Kennedy would not have been in an open car.

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Liz, I dont think I could have said it better then Grace. There are now laws about who can legally own a firearm. Today LHO would not be able to own a firearm legally, but those laws only apply to Law Abiding Citizens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grace

These days, whenever there is a motorcade, buildings along the route are checked. Empty offices are sealed shut. Presidential cars are bullet proof.

Today, Oswald would not have been able to reach that window. Kennedy would not have been in an open car.

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Sad but true. With all these nutcases we have today who have to make up for all their feelings of inadequacy with guns.... so very sad.

Hey Grace how does Douglas feel about being characterised of having an inadequacy for owning firearms?

Just the nutcases blue...just the nutcases...you know...people who are more interested in the color of people's skin than the content of their...guns?

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Just the nutcases blue...just the nutcases...

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So you caved and took me off ignore. :D

OK Grace, how does Douglas feel about being characterised as small or desperate for attention, just for being a law abiding citizen? How about being characterised as a wingnut thinking its OK to kill a public official, just for being a law abiding citizen? Or characterised as endangering irrational people, just for being a law abiding citizen? Lastly how does he feel about being called a nutcase, just for owning fireams?

Can't stand up for yourself...eh.. blue. Have to hide behind other people.

Sad....but not surprising.:D:D

Perhaps you can call in reinforcements???? Or "man up"...

So...only Law Abiding Citizen owns guns these days...

Yeah...right.

The guy who shot all the women at the gym...was he a "Law Abiding Citizen"...

Please.

Of course there are "Law Abiding Citizens" who own guns.

There are also..."NutCases" who own guns.

The problem is...how do you tell the difference?

Some people seem to think it has something to do with race???

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Can't stand up for yourself...eh.. blue. Have to hide behind other people.

Sad....but not surprising.:D:D

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Where havent I stood up for myself?

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Perhaps you can call in reinforcements???? Or "man up"...

So...only Law Abiding Citizen owns guns these days...

Yeah...right.

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Legally own firearms, yes only law abiding citizens legally own firearms. Your problem with legal gun owners is what exactly?

Do you allways need to be insulting to make your points?

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The guy who shot all the women at the gym...was he a "Law Abiding Citizen"...

Please.

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You do know what a law abiding citizen is dont you? Im begining to wonder.

Please indeed.

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Of course there are "Law Abiding Citizens" who own guns.

There are also..."NutCases" who own guns.

The problem is...how do you tell the difference?

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THe law abiding ones are the ones obeying the laws, it isnt that hard to determine the difference.

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Some people seem to think it has something to do with race???

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The MSM and you are the ones obsessed with race.

ETA: It was you who couldnt "woman up" by putting me on ignore. You get bent when people assume about your posts yet you are free to do so about other peoples posts. You whine when people call you on your posts, saying they are assuming. Then you not only assume but twist what others post to insult them.

To answer blue's questions - my husband could care less what people think of him.

He's a firm supporter of, and believer in, the Second Amendment.

Is it time to break out the smoothies?

I spit my beer all over my shorts reading some of the stuff.

I found the mention of Columbine, along with guns to be particularly funny and distasteful.

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Blue,
Shame on you, the Baja 100 is a Mexican Race.:D

Thanks for posting the pics.

Now, I know I should NOT say this?

I was thinking that it was going to be Bubba Joe - dressed like I dress-
In surplus khaki and a boonie hat, carrying an SKS with bandoleers crossing his chest.


I laughed, laughed and laughed and laughed some more.......I guess BO won't invite this CITIZEN for beer anytime soon?



No one was hurt, wounded or maimed. People had guns out in the open and no one got shot..Shiat, here in Lost Angeles the LAPD would have started a running gun battle with the people TALKING to the people that were packing!

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The last time I heard that someone was ashamed/embarrassed/hurt about 'her country' (and had her proper britches crapped) was a woman who was traumatized until recently, Then she got proud and status. I think she may be a politician's wife.:rolleyes:

Hey, she came from Chi Town.

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Originally Posted by Grace

He's a firm supporter of, and believer in, the Second Amendment.

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As are the people described in this thread as being desperate, small, wingnuts, stupid and sick and reprehensible.

I care because the MSM locks on to these decriptions.

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

Is it time to break out the smoothies?

I spit my beer all over my shorts reading some of the stuff.

I found the mention of Columbine, along with guns to be particularly funny and distasteful.

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THats alot of smoothies.

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Blue,
Shame on you, the Baja 100 is a Mexican Race.:D

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Baja 1000, someday I hope to watch it live and in person. Somehow I doubt ES is aware of this historic race.

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Thanks for posting the pics.

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Somebody had to, I hope you watched the video of him as well. According to CNN there was another person toting a an AR 15 carbine who was an O supporter yet he somehow didnt make the news.

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Now, I know I should NOT say this?

I was thinking that it was going to be Bubba Joe - dressed like I dress-
In surplus khaki and a boonie hat, carrying an SKS with bandoleers crossing his chest.


I laughed, laughed and laughed and laughed some more.......I guess BO won't invite this CITIZEN for beer anytime soon?

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Even the Democraticunderground thought it was a white guy and was throwing him to the wolves as being a racist until it was pointed out that the dude was black.

BO invite a pro Second Amendment person for a beer, that is Funnay!!!

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No one was hurt, wounded or maimed. People had guns out in the open and no one got shot..Shiat, here in Lost Angeles the LAPD would have started a running gun battle with the people TALKING to the people that were packing!

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Of course no one was hurt. These are law abiding Americans deffended by United States Secret Service and Arizona Police Officers against Acorn memebers and Obama supporters.

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The last time I heard that someone was ashamed/embarrassed/hurt about 'her country' (and had her proper britches crapped) was a woman who was traumatized until recently, Then she got proud and status. I think she may be a politician's wife.:rolleyes:

Hey, she came from Chi Town.

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http://www.geocities.com/mpetrie98/ThatsRacist2.gif

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Originally Posted by blue

http://www.geocities.com/mpetrie98/ThatsRacist2.gif

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Are you going to pay for the beer I keep spitting up!?!?!?!?;)

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

Are you going to pay for the beer I keep spitting up!?!?!?!?;)

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Obama will replace it for you.

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Originally Posted by blue

Obama will replace it for you.

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Ain't drinking no Bud Light....I am going whole hog on the beer.

Coors!:eek:;)

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

Ain't drinking no Bud Light....I am going whole hog on the beer.

Coors!:eek:;)

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This is the new Peoples Paradise! THat means youll take what our benevolent leader gives you and youll like it!

Now that the only affordable cars are being crushed. Soon the poor not only wont be able to buy cars, they wont be able to afford beer. Look for the .gov take over of American breweries.

Wait, are there any large American breweries left?

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Originally Posted by blue

This is the new Peoples Paradise! THat means youll take what our benevolent leader gives you and youll like it!

Now that the only affordable cars are being crushed. Soon the poor not only wont be able to buy cars, they wont be able to afford beer. Look for the .gov take over of American breweries.

Wait, are there any large American breweries left?

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Dude,

I can see someone trading a Buick Grand National to get 4.5k (that you and I anted up for) - the car, restored, is worth twice that much and the idiot gov't. OKed them being scrapped.:rolleyes:

UGH.............

The only American breweries are the micro jobs. Too expensive and hard to find......:(:mad:

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Originally Posted by Grace

To answer blue's questions - my husband could care less what people think of him.

He's a firm supporter of, and believer in, the Second Amendment.

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My issue is not with whether or not what these guys did was legal. It is whether or not it was stupid.

It is legal for the Philadelphia Eagles to hire Michael Vick.

But many think it is reprehensible ...thread

It is legal to tart up your daughter and parade her around...

But many think it is sick...thread

It is legal to own guns and assault rifles...

But to take those guns to a crowded public event when the president is speaking...

Is stupid...and sick and reprehensible.

Having followed the last few pages of this thread intently, may I take this chance to applaud Edwina's Secretary. I think you are spot on in what you have to say.

Having seen those pictures of the man with the rifle, or whatever it was, slung over his back, to me that is shocking and not normal. How civilisation can exist when people with giant weapons slung publically and casually over the shoulder are free to walk about in the streets, I don't know. They must pass little kids in the street, what do they think? That's it's alright to walk out of the house looking like you're going into battle?

It was mentioned somewhere that it's daft to fear an inanimate object. Honestly, I will fear a gun unless it's in the hands of a trained professional, i.e. the police. It is not inanimate when it's in the hands of someone you cannot trust.

It may be legal to own a gun in those states and walk around with it like an accessory. But just how far is a photograph like that from the current scenes in Afghanistan?

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Originally Posted by Miss Z

Having seen those pictures of the man with the rifle, or whatever it was, slung over his back, to me that is shocking and not normal.It may be legal to own a gun in those states and walk around with it like an accessory. But just how far is a photograph like that from the current scenes in Afghanistan?

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Dude,
Like, what is the gun law in England?

I seem to remember that most of the Bobbies don't pack heat, so a picture of a citizen packing must really chill the soul?

The 'farness' of the pic and what goes on in Afghanistan is a stretch.

People in AFG are usually riding around in Toyota P/U, pointing THEIR guns at folks, threatening to cut off the thumbs of people who vote.

We look like a bunch of gun toting morons because all the people who are afraid of guns stretch the truth and panic when they see people packing heat.

The 'danger' of guns is the idiots who can't be trusted to handle-no, I take that back-it's the idiots who see a picture of a guy with a gun and begin to panic.

They don't trust themselves to handle a firearm, so the project their ineptness, mistrust and inability to even touch a gun, onto everyone they see who openly carries a firearm.

Most of the time it's an idiot with grudge, an idiot with no brains or stupid kids playing with guns that get killed.:eek:

A couple of weeks ago I saw a story where cops shot a guy to death - shot some 40 times - and officials were trying to figure out if the shooting was justified.

Plus you read about the SWAT cops that killed a baby carried in the arms os some idiot that was holed up in a business?

Most of the time we have to worry about the cops -trained professionals-who shoot a guy 40 times and if they happen to shoot and kill a bystander, oh well, too bad.

It's part of the job!

The gun laws, as far as I am aware, lists most cartridge weapons under Section 1 - illegal firearms. You can apply for a gun license if you want to shoot game on your own land, go target shooting, or are in a field that requires it, i.e an armed police officer or large animal veterinary surgeon.

You are not allowed to use such a fire-arm to attack or defend yourself, nor is it permitted outside of its designated area of use.

What I meant by the Afghanistan comment was more to do with principle than the technicalities of a terrorist regime.

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

The 'danger' of guns is the idiots who can't be trusted to handle-no, I take that back-it's the idiots who see a picture of a guy with a gun and begin to panic.

They don't trust themselves to handle a firearm, so the project their ineptness, mistrust and inability to even touch a gun, onto everyone they see who openly carries a firearm.

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I don't consider myself an idiot for thinking that if I bumped into someone with a rifle on their back that I'd run a mile. No, I can't handle a firearm, but I also can't jump 10 feet in the air.

In my lifetime, I can recall many tragedies involving firearms from the US. I can't recall half as much that have occurred in the UK. People walking into public areas and opening fire at random would shake this nation to its core.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

Most of the time we have to worry about the cops -trained professionals-who shoot a guy 40 times and if they happen to shoot and kill a bystander, oh well, too bad.

It's part of the job!

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When Jean Charles de Menezes was shot on the London Underground in 2005, shortly after the London bombings, it certainly wasn't met with a reaction of 'oh well, it's part of the job!'. There have been endless enquiries and lawsuits and police apologies over the issue. But perhaps the difference is because the effect of guns is so much more abhorred over here, and, as you like to put it, we don't take kindly to 'packing heat'.

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Originally Posted by Miss Z

The gun laws, as far as I am aware, lists most cartridge weapons under Section 1 - illegal firearms. You can apply for a gun license if you want to shoot game on your own land, go target shooting, or are in a field that requires it, i.e an armed police officer or large animal veterinary surgeon.


What I meant by the Afghanistan comment was more to do with principle than the technicalities of a terrorist regime.

In my lifetime, I can recall many tragedies involving firearms from the US. I can't recall half as much that have occurred in the UK. People walking into public areas and opening fire at random would shake this nation to its core.

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We are a nation of gun owners. THat will not change anytime soon.

We also have laws that say you can't attack or (sometimes) defend ourselves with our firearms.

We also have laws that prohibit carrying heat in certain places.

My complaint is about the people who think that the U.S. is nothing but a nation of goofy, lawless, gunpacking paranoid idiots-most of those people live here!

Principle vs. technicality?

The only technicality is the people in the back of the Toyota will think nothing of shooting you, and they will do it as a matter of principle.:confused:

I am sorry if you thought I was ragging on you. I was merely defending my country from the folks that live here and find it such a ghastly place to live in.:eek::rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

We are a nation of gun owners.

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Wrong RICHARD. We are NOT a nation of gun owners. Where on earth do you come up with the stuff???

We are a nation DIVIDED on the issue of guns. Some people very strongly believe in gun ownership...some very strongly do not.

We are also a nation divided on the meaning of the words in the Constitution. Yes, yes...I know what you and your fellow travelers think it means.

But you do not speak for the entire nation...anymore than I do.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Wrong RICHARD. We are NOT a nation of gun owners. Where on earth do you come up with the stuff???

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Richard got carried away with all that soaring rhetoric.:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

I was merely defending my country from the folks that live here and find it such a ghastly place to live in.:eek::rolleyes:

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Are you picking on those people who complain about the government all the time???:D:D

This puts a whole new light on those carrying guns in Phoenix. From the Arizona Republic -

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by Scott Wong - Aug. 19, 2009 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

The protester carrying an AR-15 rifle outside President Barack Obama's speech in Phoenix on Monday staged the "publicity stunt" with the help of two local Libertarian groups that have worked with the man on Ron Paul's presidential campaign.

Before attending a pro-Obama health-care reform rally outside the Phoenix Convention Center, the man who identified himself as "Chris" met with members of RP4409 and Freedom's Phoenix. That's according to Freedom's Phoenix Publisher Ernest Hancock, who is credited with coining and designing the logo for the "Ron Paul r3VOLution."

In a YouTube video, Chris displays his semi-automatic rifle which he says "aids me in my resistance efforts."

"We will forcefully resist people imposing their will on us through the strength of the majority with a vote," Chris later tells an Obama supporter in the video. "Just because you sic the government on people doesn't make it morally OK to steal money from people. Taxation is theft."

Chris declined to reveal information about himself. Hancock said he is a Valley resident, an independent conservative and a John Birch Society member.

Chris, who also had a 9mm pistol, was one of a dozen demonstrators openly carrying firearms to the rally, a display that drew national media attention. Under Arizona law, openly carrying firearms in public is legal.

Hancock told CNN's Rick Sanchez on Tuesday that the gun display was planned well in advance. Hancock met with a Phoenix police officer last week, informing him that he and others in his group planned to bring firearms.

When Sanchez suggested many people would see it as a "publicity stunt," Hancock responded: "Absolutely."

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Ernest Hancock was once associated with a group called the Viper Militia. None of whom I would want as neighbors.

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Originally Posted by Miss Z

You are not allowed to use such a fire-arm to attack or defend yourself, nor is it permitted outside of its designated area of use.

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This is key....

The American founding fathers believed (Federalist #87, amongst others) that a human being has an inherit right to defend him/herself and his/her family from those who would deny their right to life from others. I agree with them. I pray to God I never need to (again) exercise that right.

The US 2nd Amendment CONFIRMS a God given right. It does not grant one.

There are idiots in every group. Idiots should not define the entire group.

I pray to God that my firearms are only ever used to harvest game animals.

Your nation is different. Thats cool.

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Originally Posted by Grace

This puts a whole new light on those carrying guns in Phoenix. From the Arizona Republic -



Ernest Hancock was once associated with a group called the Viper Militia. None of whom I would want as neighbors.

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Wow. truly frightening.

I need to get back to Chicago.....

http://images.cheezburger.com/comple...7983374222.jpg

People are worried about a black guy with a gun strapped on his back?

What about Grandma?

She's got her finger on the trigger of an RPG and doesn't look like she has anyone with her.....

"Come on grandma!, Let's go grab a Coke!"

"NO Imperialist Western Devils drink COKE!, Let me go!!!"

:eek:

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

Dude,

I can see someone trading a Buick Grand National to get 4.5k (that you and I anted up for) - the car, restored, is worth twice that much and the idiot gov't. OKed them being scrapped.:rolleyes:

UGH.............

The only American breweries are the micro jobs. Too expensive and hard to find......:(:mad:

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Between the scams and Big Brother, only 20% of the C4C money has made it to the dealerships. When I find that link again Ill post it.

Micro brew is plentyfull and decently priced here in AK.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

My issue is not with whether or not what these guys did was legal. It is whether or not it was stupid.

It is legal for the Philadelphia Eagles to hire Michael Vick.

But many think it is reprehensible ...thread

It is legal to tart up your daughter and parade her around...

But many think it is sick...thread

It is legal to own guns and assault rifles...

But to take those guns to a crowded public event when the president is speaking...

Is stupid...and sick and reprehensible.

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Now exercising your Rights and obeying the Law is stupid...as well as sick and reprehensible. Got it.:rolleyes:

Vick does not have a right to a job and the Eagles dont have a right to prevent Vick from working. Reprehensible or not, and I agree that it is, its not against any law I know of. The court of public opinion rules for Vick and the Eagles.

The day they make tarting up your daughter illegal and brings the charge of child endangerment/abuse cant come quick enough, untill that happens Ill just agree with that its reprehensible.

But to say exercising a Right and obeying the Law is stupid, that is reprehensible.

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Originally Posted by Miss Z

Having followed the last few pages of this thread intently, may I take this chance to applaud Edwina's Secretary. I think you are spot on in what you have to say.

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Seeing how you are from England I can understand your agreement with ES. However this isnt England, our cultures reguarding firearms are very different. A government can controll its population easier if they are unarmed.

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Originally Posted by Miss Z

Having seen those pictures of the man with the rifle, or whatever it was, slung over his back, to me that is shocking and not normal. How civilisation can exist when people with giant weapons slung publically and casually over the shoulder are free to walk about in the streets, I don't know. They must pass little kids in the street, what do they think? That's it's alright to walk out of the house looking like you're going into battle?

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Its very normal for the Swiss, but firearms in their culture are even more ingrained then in the USA. A person open carrying in Alaska wont get a second glance, the same person in California would be, at best arrested, and at worst shot for exercising their Right to do so.

A majority of, not all, of Alaskan kids are taught to respect firearms and firearm safety, and a majority, not all, of Californian kids are taught that firearms are evil and people that use them are evil. Those are generalizations, the exceptions only prove it as true.

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Originally Posted by Miss Z

It was mentioned somewhere that it's daft to fear an inanimate object. Honestly, I will fear a gun unless it's in the hands of a trained professional, i.e. the police. It is not inanimate when it's in the hands of someone you cannot trust.

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Any object in the hands of somebody you cannot trust is a tool that can cause great harm to many people. The English dont even trust firearms to ordinary police officers if IRRC. It is insane to freak out when you see a firearm in a holster, or slung on someones back. If someone is brandishing any weapon, then it is OK to freak out.

I do have to admit having a semi auto AK 47 clone slung on my back in a high school was kinda wierd.

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Originally Posted by Miss Z

It may be legal to own a gun in those states and walk around with it like an accessory. But just how far is a photograph like that from the current scenes in Afghanistan?

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The people with guns in Afghanistan, for the most part, arent trying to make a point to their government. They are making a point for whatever ruling tribe is in the area to the local population.

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

Dude,
Like, what is the gun law in England?

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Stricter the CA.

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

I seem to remember that most of the Bobbies don't pack heat, so a picture of a citizen packing must really chill the soul?

The 'farness' of the pic and what goes on in Afghanistan is a stretch.

People in AFG are usually riding around in Toyota P/U, pointing THEIR guns at folks, threatening to cut off the thumbs of people who vote.

We look like a bunch of gun toting morons because all the people who are afraid of guns stretch the truth and panic when they see people packing heat.

The 'danger' of guns is the idiots who can't be trusted to handle-no, I take that back-it's the idiots who see a picture of a guy with a gun and begin to panic.

They don't trust themselves to handle a firearm, so the project their ineptness, mistrust and inability to even touch a gun, onto everyone they see who openly carries a firearm.

Most of the time it's an idiot with grudge, an idiot with no brains or stupid kids playing with guns that get killed.:eek:

A couple of weeks ago I saw a story where cops shot a guy to death - shot some 40 times - and officials were trying to figure out if the shooting was justified.

Plus you read about the SWAT cops that killed a baby carried in the arms os some idiot that was holed up in a business?

Most of the time we have to worry about the cops -trained professionals-who shoot a guy 40 times and if they happen to shoot and kill a bystander, oh well, too bad.

It's part of the job!

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Fairly well summed up RICHARD.

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Originally Posted by Miss Z

The gun laws, as far as I am aware, lists most cartridge weapons under Section 1 - illegal firearms. You can apply for a gun license if you want to shoot game on your own land, go target shooting, or are in a field that requires it, i.e an armed police officer or large animal veterinary surgeon.

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I dont need a license or a permit to own a firearm or to carry open or concealed.

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Originally Posted by Miss Z

You are not allowed to use such a fire-arm to attack or defend yourself, nor is it permitted outside of its designated area of use.

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I would think it wont take to much to ban the carrying of knives or the licensing of martial arts training for self defense in the UK.

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Originally Posted by Miss Z

What I meant by the Afghanistan comment was more to do with principle than the technicalities of a terrorist regime.

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Seeing how the English saw our Founding Fathers as a terrorist regime, I can see your point.

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Originally Posted by Miss Z

I don't consider myself an idiot for thinking that if I bumped into someone with a rifle on their back that I'd run a mile. No, I can't handle a firearm, but I also can't jump 10 feet in the air.

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In England you probably would be an idiot if you didnt jump and run a mile. If you where in Arizona and bumped into someone with a firearm, Im sure you could laugh it off as a cultural diference.

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Originally Posted by Miss Z

In my lifetime, I can recall many tragedies involving firearms from the US. I can't recall half as much that have occurred in the UK. People walking into public areas and opening fire at random would shake this nation to its core.

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The majority of the recent mass shootings in the USA took place in Gun Free Zones. Areas where the shooter/criminal is the only one with a firearm.

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Originally Posted by Miss Z

When Jean Charles de Menezes was shot on the London Underground in 2005, shortly after the London bombings, it certainly wasn't met with a reaction of 'oh well, it's part of the job!'. There have been endless enquiries and lawsuits and police apologies over the issue. But perhaps the difference is because the effect of guns is so much more abhorred over here, and, as you like to put it, we don't take kindly to 'packing heat'.

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To Bobbies and the local government should have been grovelling for forgiveness for killing an innocent man, requardless of how the UK feels about firearms.

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Originally Posted by RICHARD

We are a nation of gun owners. THat will not change anytime soon.

I am sorry if you thought I was ragging on you. I was merely defending my country from the folks that live here and find it such a ghastly place to live in.:eek::rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Wrong RICHARD. We are NOT a nation of gun owners. Where on earth do you come up with the stuff???

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Our Country was started by the Shot Heard Around the World.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

We are a nation DIVIDED on the issue of guns. Some people very strongly believe in gun ownership...some very strongly do not.

We are also a nation divided on the meaning of the words in the Constitution. Yes, yes...I know what you and your fellow travelers think it means.

But you do not speak for the entire nation...anymore than I do.

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We are a nation of people where a minority who do not believe in the Constitution are trying to Divide the nation.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Are you picking on those people who complain about the government all the time???:D:D

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So you didnt complain during the 8 years of ShrubCo?

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Originally Posted by Grace

Ernest Hancock was once associated with a group called the Viper Militia. None of whom I would want as neighbors.

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He obviously wasnt a close enough associate or he would have been convicted as well.

Obama is an associate of known terrorists, Im sure you wouldnt have a problem with them as neighbors.

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Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Wow. truly frightening.

I need to get back to Chicago.....

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Standing up to your government is frightening?

Yeah no guns in Chicago. :rolleyes: