We're Buying from a Breeder

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Originally Posted by Cataholic

Vela, (and Pam, if I remember correctly),
I think ALL breeding should stop. All. My bone of contention is that there are some people (even on this board :eek: ) that get some special pass when it comes to breeding, and I have never quite understood it. Sure there are BYB that are just unspeakable, and then, there are some BYB that make sure their puppies go to good loving homes. It is still the same, to me. There are too many pets- whether they come from Mr. X or Mrs. Y. The term 'responsible' that we banter about is so completely subjective. Just because so and so says, "oh, I do all sorts of tests, blah, blah, I don't do it for money, blah, blah" doesn't do anything about decreasing the pet population. These people that breed, without a recongnizable kennel name, or some strong affiliation with show (or agility, field, or whatever the goal they are seeking might be), are BYBs. The AKC doesn't spend much time (if any, as they are regulatory in nature) weeding out, admonishing, halting, ceasing, etc., when it comes to registration, the very thing that people cry out, "I am not BYB, I am breeding dogs/cats registered with the AKC"! That

SO
is a tragedy. Yes, I do think they **should** do something.

I don't think we need anymore animals-pure, mixed-period, born into this world. When we start to lose some of this "gotta have a purebred" mentality, we can really get back to humanity- saving those that are already here, through no fault of their own.

I think, for me, it comes down to realizing that while I can't affect the world at large with my personal decision (in this case to adopt from a shelter, rather than go to a breeder), I can work towards eliminating the pet overpopulation. It is about supply and demand. If people would stop buying from BYB, pet stores, eventually- shoot, maybe not in my lifetime- it will come down to what you claim-only the responsible breeders are left to breed-
It truly saddens my heart to know that people really interested in a PET (as many, many of us are), would overlook adoption for, IMO, no real reason.

Johanna

PS- don't pick on my mispellings...I think I got the difference between two, too, and to all ironed out.

PSS- and, don't claim anything is a joke! That isn't allowed anymore....you must be 100% PC at all times less your fragile ego is shattered.

PSS- I don't really mean any of this towards you! Truly. No joke. :D

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Responsible breeders, and yes they are out there, don't cause the problem and should not be held accountable for the rest. And being repsonsible doesn't just mean saying you have done the testing, they have paperwork to back it up.

BTW, your no breeding of any kind thing would eventually cause dogs to disappear since they do grow old and die and I'm really not up on the whole cloning thing being a good idea...If responsible breeders stopped breeding until the unhomed pets all found homes, then by the time that happened there would be no dogs for them to breed resposibly with because their dogs would all be dead from old age and the only dogs left would be ill bred or mixed breed dogs...I think it would be a shame to lose all of the wonderful breeds out there.

BTW I do understand WHY you feel that way, and that all dogs deserve a good home and not to die in a shelter, but i just don't agree with the method of going about it because then the other breeds would be lost to us as well.

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Originally Posted by Vela

You know what, you are as entitled as anyone else to choose where you get your dog from. I think it is unfair to pass judgement on someone just because they choose to get a dog from a breeder rather than a shelter. (I didn't say anyone has at this point but often people do). I bought Cracker from a breeder and I don't regret it for one minute. Yes for those who get dogs from shelters, this is wonderful, but not everyone wants to do the same thing and it's not wrong to buy a puppy from a responsible ehthical breeder. It gets tiresome for people to assume everyone should do something a certain way because they do it that way. I have had wonderful shelter dogs, I also have a wonderful purebred dog I bought from a breeder. There is nothing wrong with your decision to do so and don't feel bad about it. Everyone is entitled to do what works for THEM at each particular point in time. If you want a certain type or breed of dog and you want to purchase that dog from a reputable breeder then you go for it. It's your dog, your decision. Don't let anyone make you feel bad for it. Rescue is wonderful, adopting dogs from shelters is wonderful, but so is buying a well bred dog if that's the kind of dog you want.

The best thing you can probably do is research what kind of testing is "required" of breeding stock for the breed you are looking at. Is the breed prone to hip dysplasia, etc etc. And then find out if the breeder has hips, eyes, and other testing done on their breeding stock. That will help you decide if they are responsible about helping bring healthy dogs into the world. Most puppies are fine to leave at 8 weeks, but before that really is not in their best interest. See if they have health histories of past puppies and maybe even see about talking to some people who have bought puppies from them before. Also check on the treatment of the parents, etc. Their living conditions, how many times they breed the bitch in a lifetime, etc. Good luck with your search for the right puppy, and don't feel bad about it.

Yes the problem of too many pets in shelters is awful, but the OP didn't cause the problem and her buying a puppy from a breeder won't stop the problem. I for one appreciate responsible ethical breeders of purebred dogs who try to maintain a breed and health standard. Not all breeders do that but I appreciate those who do. Let's not try to make her feel bad and just wish her luck with her puppy finding. If there weren't good responsible breeders breeding dogs true to breed, pretty soon there wouldn't be any purebreds, only BYB dogs and accident dogs and while those can be wonderful dogs, some people like certain breeds, there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is in irresponsible owners who won't spay and neuter their pets, so don't make the OP feel bad for wanting a certain breed or type of dog and for doing research and trying to obtain one from a reputable breeder.

Edited to add that Sarah's post was very well written and informative. Good advice there on what to look for.

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Very well said, and I agree. :) Good luck on your search! You'll find that perfect Lab.

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Originally Posted by Vela

Responsible breeders, and yes they are out there, don't cause the problem and should not be held accountable for the rest.

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You have done it again Vela and stolen the words right out of my mouth. The responsibility lies in EDUCATING people about spaying and neutering and the responsibilities of pet ownership once they get a dog, whether from a breeder or shelter or anywhere they might find him/her.

I am in the unique situation of having had purebred poodles for over 30 years and three years ago adopted a shelter poodle. Do I consider love Ripley any less or think of him as a "lesser" dog because his lineage is uncertain. Of course not. And, honestly, any future dog I get will be a rescue, but I certainly do understand why people go to breeders and do see a need for them. I happen to be a *hopelessly poodle person* and love the breed and the traits, etc. I would hate it if they disappeared into ....oodles and apoos, etc., etc.

Thanks everyone. :)

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Originally Posted by Kfamr

-sigh- I tried.

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Once again Kay, thank you. YOU have made me have a change of heart. I will adopt from a shelter - NO breeders for me unless I want to go into shows. I thought about it for a long time last night and it just seems like I could take that $700.00 I was going to spend on a lab and adopt a $165.00 shelter dog, then donate some money to them. I read alot about having a puppy and a 2 year old, though I am perfectly capable, I feel that I should wait until she is older then get a puppy. I emailed my landlord and she said that as long as I poop and scoop, she doesnt care what my dog is mixed with. I still dont want a lab mixed with a Rottweiler or Pitbull though. This means that I now have the option of adopting a different breed.

That being said, as soon as a dog comes into the shelter that is a match, we will go and see him.

Thank you to everyone who helped me, all I needed was someone to knock some sense into my head. Sorry to everyone else...

What other breeds are recommended for small children? :)

Yes!! Good for you for rescueing!! :D

For children smaller breeds are recommended. If you are willing to get a smaller breed.... Cockers are great with children. Some Boxers are, too.

Please take this test. It will definatly hyaelp you find the breed you are looking for. :)

http://dogbreedinfo.com/search.htm

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Originally Posted by dab_20

Yes!! Good for you for rescueing!! :D

For children smaller breeds are recommended. If you are willing to get a smaller breed.... Cockers are great with children. Some Boxers are, too.

Please take this test. It will definatly hyaelp you find the breed you are looking for. :)

http://dogbreedinfo.com/search.htm

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Ugh, I dont really like small breed dogs. There is not one breed I like that came up with that quiz. I am asking everyone here, not the internet. The internet actually recommends an APBT! :) I want a large dog, labs are considered medium large. I dont want a small dog, I think the smallest dog I would own would still be medium sized. MOST smaller dogs ARENT recommended for small children. :)

I'd actually not recommend smaller dog personally, I find medium to larger dogs are often more able to handle the sometimes rougher handling of a young one. First one that pops to mind for me at the moment are golden retrievers, often wonderful around other pets and small children, but still need exercise and activity (as would any dog really). In my experience they are oftentimes a bit more mellow than labs. ANY breed can be wonderful with kids really (including rotties and pitties). If you look for an adult dog I'd make sure the dog had experience around kids and was known to be loving and tolerant around them.

I NEVER thought I would be a small dog person but my daughter talked me into getting a small dog, hehe I figured it would get her away from boys for a while...well...she still likes boys and the small dog is now MY dog...

I LOVE him, I can count to 10 when I sit down and he will be on my lap, he is the most lovable thing you could ever imagine. He is gentle with kids too.

I forgot to say I wish you the best on whatever you decide, I hope you find a dog that fits your lifestyle and you get many years of enjoyment with.

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Originally Posted by dab_20

Yes!! Good for you for rescueing!! :D

For children smaller breeds are recommended. If you are willing to get a smaller breed.... Cockers are great with children. Some Boxers are, too.

Please take this test. It will definatly hyaelp you find the breed you are looking for. :)

http://dogbreedinfo.com/search.htm

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Actually smaller dogs are often more likely to bite small children and are usually more nippy and cranky when, it comes to small children, cockers are some of the biggest offenders when it comes to biting children. As for Boxers, they are wonderful with kids, even young ones, but they are not small, Cracker is 85 pounds and no fat on him. Granted he's rather large but they are definitely not a small breed in general. Boxers are also VERY energetic, moreso than a lot of medium sized dogs.

When my kids were small I did day care for extra money, also I love kids. ;)
Anyway, I had a basset hound at that time. She was amazing with the little kids. She loved them and they loved her. There not real big but not real small either. There a lot of fun. :D I'm not surprised the internet said that about the APBT. In temperment testing they did better than the lab. I'm sure thats hard for a lot of people to believe though. I own a pit bull, she is 10 months old. She is a very high engery dog thats for sure. I understand the pit bull is not for everyone. I think they are an amazing dog, but not everyone agrees with that. ;)

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http://dogbreedinfo.com/search.htm

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Wow, I don't like that thing at all. I took it for curiosity sake and three of the "breeds" it recommended were:

Goldendoodle

Labradoodle

Schnoodle

I can't believe it promotes designer breeds.

Yesh I got recommended some of those breeds as well...pretty sure I don't like that "test". I am not against rescuing/adopting a mixed breed, but I am against designer breeds.

Actually a Basset would be a good choice, all the bassetts I see don't look real active.

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Originally Posted by caseysmom

Actually a Basset would be a good choice, all the bassetts I see don't look real active.

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I'm not to sure about that... We rescued a basset once, he was a total, hyper, sweetheart! He loved to run with us :p he also loved to take a drink and then put his head in our lap!

I would love a Golden Retriever, I would just have to convince Tim (DH). He doesnt like long haired dogs because of their shedding, little does he know, labs shed a ton too! He likes Labs, Chessys, Pointers, Irish Wolfhounds, Danes and GSD's. I personally love all those breeds as well. There was a Great Dane/Lab mix in a shelter that we both loved, but Tim says they will eat us out of our house! I would love a Dane mix, any tips on convincing him? There a many, many extra large dogs in the shelters that are excellent with small children. He also doesnt want a senior dog, or a dog that only has a 6 year lifespan?! Sooooo picky! But he knows I am a sucker for very large dogs.

Small dogs are out of the question, I find them to be less tolerant of small children. Medium dogs are great, but there arent many medium sized breeds that fit into my lifestyle. Large - Extra Large dogs have many breeds that suit my needs. I will talk to him again tonight, while there may not be a Lab rescue here, there are many other breed specific rescues.

Wish me luck, he can be really hard to convince... :p

CCL,

One of the longest lived dogs my family had was a Dane-mix. (She was also the silliest, clumsiest fool we've ever had, but that's another thread) She lived to be 14 1/2 years old, so age with a dane mix isn't always an issue. Gracie also really didn't eat us out of house and home, she ate a little more than a smaller dog, but not by much.

I have tried explaining to him that a full grown male lab eats as much, or more, than a Dane or Dane mix. Some male labs can get to be 100+ pounds, so I dont get why he is so against having a dane. I know more about the Dane that any other breed, I have met mixed breed Danes and Purebreds and find them all to be gentle giants. They have been my dream dog since I was very young. Some danes live 6 years and some love 10+, it really just depends on how healthy to dog is. I will show him a bunch of breeds tonight, and run him through petfinder and let you know what catches his eye. Pssst... I wont tell him the breed until after he says yes or no.

Men.......... (no offence to any men here, just mine in particular!) Cant live with them, cant live without them. :rolleyes:

I am just so happy to read you have had a change of heart and now are going to rescue a dog from a shelter, that is awesome news,you are doing a wonderful thing in doing just that, good luck and let us know when you have picked your furbaby up and pics too please. :)

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Originally Posted by Vela

Actually smaller dogs are often more likely to bite small children and are usually more nippy and cranky when, it comes to small children, cockers are some of the biggest offenders when it comes to biting children. As for Boxers, they are wonderful with kids, even young ones, but they are not small, Cracker is 85 pounds and no fat on him. Granted he's rather large but they are definitely not a small breed in general. Boxers are also VERY energetic, moreso than a lot of medium sized dogs.

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When I meant small dog I was thinking around 30 pounds. And most Cockers that bite are the very poorly bred ones. My RB Missy was from an alcoholic BYB and she bit me alot because I was alot younger and was rough with her. But we got closer as I got a bit older. My brother got a Boxer and he just LOVES her. Maybe a boxer would be a bit to rambunctious?

Sammy acctually came from a BYB but he doesn't seem to be nuerotic or have poor lines... just luck I guess. Missy was aggresive/afraid since the day we had her.

I know that test has designer breeds listed... I just ignore them. And I suggested it because when I took it, it listed all the breeds that would acctually do very well for me.

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Originally Posted by carole

I am just so happy to read you have had a change of heart and now are going to rescue a dog from a shelter, that is awesome news,you are doing a wonderful thing in doing just that, good luck and let us know when you have picked your furbaby up and pics too please. :)

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ditto! :) and I don't think a basset hound is a bad choice but of course that is jmho. :)

Tasha, I am in tears. I am so glad you've changed your mind on this.

I was looking through different shelters in BC.. Look at this sweetheart. It doesn't say anything about how he is with kids, but everything else sounds perfect for your situation. He's also a Lab mix! He especially melts my heart as he reminds me of Nala.

http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?act...=0&tmpl=&stat=
http://www.petfinder.com/fotos/BC29/...660709-3-x.jpg

he's beautiful..:)

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Originally Posted by Kfamr

Tasha, I am in tears. I am so glad you've changed your mind on this.

I was looking through different shelters in BC.. Look at this sweetheart. It doesn't say anything about how he is with kids, but everything else sounds perfect for your situation. He's also a Lab mix! He especially melts my heart as he reminds me of Nala.

http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?act...=0&tmpl=&stat=
http://www.petfinder.com/fotos/BC29/...660709-3-x.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kfamr

Tasha, I am in tears. I am so glad you've changed your mind on this.

I was looking through different shelters in BC.. Look at this sweetheart. It doesn't say anything about how he is with kids, but everything else sounds perfect for your situation. He's also a Lab mix! He especially melts my heart as he reminds me of Nala.

http://www.petfinder.com/pet.cgi?act...=0&tmpl=&stat=
http://www.petfinder.com/fotos/BC29/...660709-3-x.jpg

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What a SWEETIE!! I can't believe how perfect he sounds for you!! I would go take a look :)

He looks like a sweety! We will go have a look, maybe this Saturday! :) :) If he is what we want - pray that the SPCA doesnt turn us down. :(

I'm also really glad you're considering rescue - that is awesome. :)

I am kinda late, but as to other breeds that I've experienced as being good with kids - English Springer Spaniels, Goldens, Brittany Spaniels, German Shorthaired Pointers... basically most sporting breeds, as long as they aren't too hyper for little ones. GSD's, Rough/Smooth Collies, Huskies, Standard Poodles, Great Pyrenese, and English Bulldogs also tend to have good kid personalities. However, it really does vary! For instance, my BC is very shy with some new kids and kids that are hyper and run around (even though he loves the kids in our family)... BUT, I've also met BC's who adore kids.

Yes, like my friend had a siberian husky who was always the sweetest. One day it attacked her 5 year old sister and her died tried to get the dog off her but it went after him so her dad shot it. :( :( :( :( It could have gotten rabies though because it had recently been bitten by coyote.

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Originally Posted by Cataholic

Vela, (and Pam, if I remember correctly),
I think ALL breeding should stop. All. My bone of contention is that there are some people (even on this board :eek: ) that get some special pass when it comes to breeding, and I have never quite understood it. Sure there are BYB that are just unspeakable, and then, there are some BYB that make sure their puppies go to good loving homes. It is still the same, to me. There are too many pets- whether they come from Mr. X or Mrs. Y. The term 'responsible' that we banter about is so completely subjective. Just because so and so says, "oh, I do all sorts of tests, blah, blah, I don't do it for money, blah, blah" doesn't do anything about decreasing the pet population. These people that breed, without a recongnizable kennel name, or some strong affiliation with show (or agility, field, or whatever the goal they are seeking might be), are BYBs. The AKC doesn't spend much time (if any, as they are regulatory in nature) weeding out, admonishing, halting, ceasing, etc., when it comes to registration, the very thing that people cry out, "I am not BYB, I am breeding dogs/cats registered with the AKC"! That
is a tragedy. Yes, I do think they **should** do something.

I don't think we need anymore animals-pure, mixed-period, born into this world. When we start to lose some of this "gotta have a purebred" mentality, we can really get back to humanity- saving those that are already here, through no fault of their own.

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I know, I know, beating a dead horse.... but I just gotta say, as a BREEDER myself... OUCH, you have no clue. :eek: <<off soapbox>>

Crazy-Cat-Lover
Good luck with whatever happens, just follow your heart. I'm glad Kay could help you, she's one amazing woman. The world should have more people like her.

Thank you! :D

Just thought I would let you know that the Lab Kay posted (Tanner) about isnt good with small children. Darn! :( :(

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Originally Posted by Crazy-Cat-Lover

The only time I have seen a dog knock a child down is if they aren't trained or exercised enough.

:o

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Sorry but I had to chuckle at this comment:p Have you ever seen my boy Bon (Mastiff)? He's around 140 (give or take) and my little 2 yr old niece is maybe all of 20 lbs. He just licks her and knocks her down:D
At my bday party she had hold of his collar and he just turned to look at someone else and *boom* down to the floor she went!http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...2/f0a79a7b.jpg
Not trying to be offensive to you at all...just gave me a chuckle:)

Now as to you getting a shelter dog, I think that's awesome if you can find the right one for your family. But I also understand you getting from a breeder, that's where we got Bon. We didn't want to wait to find the "right one" at a shelter...we wanted a dog NOW. We had just lost our big guy Angus and needed to fill that void. I drove over 3 hours each way to pick him up (sorry...just a little plug on my special guy...Bon)

So, I say do what you want. It's your life, your family, your money. As long as you take good care of it I feel it's your decision.
If you find the right shelter dog I say *YAHOO!* but if you get a dog, no matter what kind I'm still going to be just as happy for you:D
Ohhh and as for the eating and shedding...our big guy eats around 4 cups of food/day and others he'll only eat 2 (we free feed) so it's not that much more food;) But the shedding...he's short haired and my girls both have long hair, he sheds just as much as they do :eek:

Thanks Anna. I was just meaning that I have *personally* never seen this. Even if a dog did knock her down, she would just laugh about it and get back up! :)

I've skimmed through this whole thread and am...........APPALLED!


At how much this boy looks like Major, that is!

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=5668695
http://wwww.petfinder.com/fotos/BC73...668695-3-x.jpg
http://wwww.petfinder.com/fotos/BC73...668695-2-x.jpg
:eek: :eek: :eek:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../PDR_2884h.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...meLena/wow.jpg



Haha, sorry to sidetrack thread. I'm not sure if they really look identical in the pictures I posted, but Whiskey looks EXACTLY the same except for his slightly longer neck. If I would have seen that top picture and didn't know it wasn't Major, I would have said "Where and when was that taken??" :eek:

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Originally Posted by LuvGold00

I know, I know, beating a dead horse.... but I just gotta say, as a BREEDER myself... OUCH, you have no clue. :eek: <<off soapbox>>

Crazy-Cat-Lover
Good luck with whatever happens, just follow your heart. I'm glad Kay could help you, she's one amazing woman. The world should have more people like her.

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Ohhhh, trust me, I know a dead horse when I see one. The lengths you go to to justify your breeding is very upsetting to me. Bring 'em all into the world....bring 'em all in. :( :(

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Originally Posted by Cataholic

Ohhhh, trust me, I know a dead horse when I see one. The lengths you go to to justify your breeding is very upsetting to me. Bring 'em all into the world....bring 'em all in. :( :(

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Gosh I don't mean to start anything here, but sometimes Johanna you are just a wee bit abrasive. We could carry this into the human realm as well you know. Why did you or I choose to have our own genetic children when there are children in foster care just waiting to be adopted not to mention those in other countries. :confused: I think you need to loosen up here a bit.

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Originally Posted by Vela

Responsible breeders, and yes they are out there, don't cause the problem and should not be held accountable for the rest. And being repsonsible doesn't just mean saying you have done the testing, they have paperwork to back it up.

BTW, your no breeding of any kind thing would eventually cause dogs to disappear since they do grow old and die and I'm really not up on the whole cloning thing being a good idea...If responsible breeders stopped breeding until the unhomed pets all found homes, then by the time that happened there would be no dogs for them to breed resposibly with because their dogs would all be dead from old age and the only dogs left would be ill bred or mixed breed dogs...I think it would be a shame to lose all of the wonderful breeds out there.

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Ditto!
Vela, you are awesome!



Anyways, Tasha I am glad you decided on a shelter dog.
Would it be possible for you to tell your shelter what you are looking for in a dog (size, good w/ kids, grooming needs etc...) and they can keep an eye out for you & let you know when they have a possible match for you? I know the shelters arund me do that!

I wish you the best of luck!

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Originally Posted by Pam

Gosh I don't mean to start anything here, but sometimes Johanna you are just a wee bit abrasive. We could carry this into the human realm as well you know. Why did you or I choose to have our own genetic children when there are children in foster care just waiting to be adopted not to mention those in other countries. :confused: I think you need to loosen up here a bit.

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WHAT? Did you read HER post? You must be kidding me. What is it that prevents you from seeing that what I said is my opinion, and that is it? SHE said what she did about a dead horse. Not me. Sheesh. I hate to sound so silly, but, I DIDN'T START IT! Did you pm her and say, "wow, maybe you shouldn't have phrased it like that"? I am betting not. The fact is, you have the same opinion as she does, so, you somehow think your opinion carries more merit than mine. That is what separates opinion from fact! I am all for a difference of opinion. I am not for hypocrisy. I see alot of it, frankly, on here. Alot of it. Sure, I express my opinions. And, I know, if you are not one that believes as I do, you are going to find 'fault' with it. I know that, that is human nature. But, to somehow overlook the post that I was referring to is really quite something.

As for carrying this into the human realm...wow. I am not sure how to address this. As much as I love my cats, and I do love them tons, there is a difference. Adoption, as a single woman, isn't as easy as you might be led to believe. And, it is somewhat costly. I know this personally, as my sister adopted a child from China, and two of my current clients adopted, as single women. It wasn't cheap. Second, Jonah wasn't a planned event, though, he was and is the joy of my life. While I would not trade him for all the tea in China, I hadn't 'planned' on having him. Having said that, I can assure you that I carry him 100% of the way, would not pawn him off on others, would not in a million years consider 'euthanizing' him (hey, you made the comparison, not me), don't keep him chained up outside, I provide quality food for, clothe him, and see that he has access to excellent medical care. I also do not sit around and justify why someone should bring children into the world.

Really, there is no comparison between a child and a pet- though I love them both. I am not quite sure where you are coming from.


I am against breeding, in all forms, for any reason, for anyone. That is my opinion, and I am welcome to it. That yours differs doesn't lessen mine. No matter how many times you state it, or, justify it, or attack me, personally, over it. That might be the difference between someone like you, and someone like me. I can accept it, and carry on. I don't need to be right, or convince you to believe differently.

Johanna

Cool! Glad you're going to save some lucky pups life! :D Honestly I would get something like a toy breed. They're fragile and stuff, but Im sure you already knew this! Anyways I hope you find the perfect dog for your family :D