Gays and Gay Marriages

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Originally posted by DJFyrewolf36
We can argue the whole civil union/marage thing until we are all blue in the face. I don't think the terminology matters much, so long as same sex couples are granted the legal rights (and drawbacks) as heterosexual couples. Legally, a marrage/civil union is a pretty powerful thing. All couples should have the right to it if they choose.

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If marriage is just a sign of love, as Tonya put it, then why can't gay couples just go on without that certificate? Obviously, the certificate doesn't mean anything if it's just about love. If it's just about love, then why do gay couples needs the drawbacks that hetero couple have?

I agree with Samantha Puppy. I don't have a problem with homosexual people, but I do have a problem with them wanting to get married. Issues like health insurance and hospital visits should not be up to the state. The insurance companies and hospitals should decide whether or not YOUR situation is okay in their facilities/company.

People are given their individual rights and the state is just about them. No, a gay person doesn't have the right to get married to someone other gay person, but I don't the right to get married right now, either. Should I get peeved and growl about the fact that I'm underage and can't get married without my parents' signatures? I think not. It's illegal for just anyone to carry a concealed weapon. You have to get it approved, and registered/licensed, among other things. Does that mean I should growl about me wanting to have a gun, but I'm only 16 so I can't?? No.

If we can redefine the definition of marriage, I propose we redefine 3/4 of the English language just because we have the right to growl about it! Not. There's a reason homosexual couples can't get married - it's ILLEGAL! Judges were trying to amend the laws, and that's not their job. I propose we change the marriage laws and say I can marry my dog because I just love her SO much! Woot. Not. Why? Because it's illegal. I think it's PATHETIC that states even had to put an admentment change question on the ballots this election. I think it's pathetic that judges took matters into their own hands just because they thought it was wrong. I find it even more pathetic that people in this country are proposing we allow homosexual couples get married.

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Originally posted by lizzielou742
If the federal government was out of the marriage business, then moderates/Democrats would be happy (separation of Church and State!)

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I'd also like to point out if the government was out of a lot of "social" but legal acts, this country would be in one hell of a hole. Correct, I don't feel the government should be taking MY money because they don't realize how much they already have, but there are reasons we have LAWS.. for people to obide by them.

And another thing, it says no where in the constitution about Separation of Church and State. Find it, and show me.. but I can guarantee that won't happen because it's not there. I've looked, many times. It does say that we can't shove one religion down someone's throat and enforce it, but no where does it say we can't have Church and State coincide.

And heck, why can't issues that MATTER to people be based on religion? This country was founded upon religion! First a person says they want religion to be taken out of the matter, and then for the government and laws to be taken out of it to. What's going to be left?

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If marriage is just a sign of love, as Tonya put it, then why can't gay couples just go on without that certificate? Obviously, the certificate doesn't mean anything if it's just about love. If it's just about love, then why do gay couples needs the drawbacks that hetero couple have?

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Why shouldn't they? Why should they be denied the same rights hetero couples have? Why do hetero couples need that certificate?

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It's illegal for just anyone to carry a concealed weapon. You have to get it approved, and registered/licensed, among other things. Does that mean I should growl about me wanting to have a gun, but I'm only 16 so I can't?? No.

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I think it's very bizzare that you use such a comparison.
A gun is capable of harming someone, killing somone.

Two people of the same sex getting married, gettings rights that every other married couple has, and getting a piece of paper saying that they're in love and are together -- will not hurt someone or kill someone.

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There's a reason homosexual couples can't get married - it's ILLEGAL! Judges were trying to amend the laws, and that's not their job. I propose we change the marriage laws and say I can marry my dog because I just love her SO much! Woot. Not. Why? Because it's illegal. I think it's PATHETIC that states even had to put an admentment change question on the ballots this election. I think it's pathetic that judges took matters into their own hands just because they thought it was wrong. I find it even more pathetic that people in this country are proposing we allow homosexual couples get married.

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I think it's pretty damn pathetic the way some people think about Homosexuals.
The reason you cannot marry your dog is because your dog cannot say "I do". Again, your comparisons are pretty bizzare.

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why can't issues that MATTER to people be based on religion?

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Not everyone believes in the same religion, nor does everyone believe in "God", thus laws should not be made on the beliefs of a religion.

Also, I forget what exactly my teacher said, but he said something along the lines that the country wasn't founded on religion, but something else. I'm not saying that it's factual, but that's what he said.

This country was founded on Freedom For Religion. If you'd like to just say Freedom, then go for it. But it was founded on freedom for religion - understand what you wish.

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Originally posted by Kfamr
Why shouldn't they? Why should they be denied the same rights hetero couples have? Why do hetero couples need that certificate?

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I don't think Hetero couples "need" that certificate. I know people who are perfectly happy with just being "together" and never getting married because they're scared of the idea of marriage. I think if a couple is to just get married because they want that legal status of being married and for that certificate, then they're being blinded by the real reason of marriage.

And they're being denied of the right to get married because it's illegal. Plain and simple. Again, health concerns and liabilities should be brought up and decided by the company itself. Not by the state or laws. That's all they want, right? Health insurance, life insurance, hospital visits, etc., correct? They don't have to be "married" to love eachother... right? Then why not fight for the companies and insurance policies to change, as opposed to letting homosexual couples get married? I guarantee, that if homosexual couples ever are allowed to get married, the same insurance companies and hospitals will DENY the same things they are denying now. Think about it.

But WHY should it be illegal??
It's not plain and simple.

It's plain ole stupid. There's no reason for them not to be able to get married, there's no reason for it to be illegal.
They're human beings, just like a Hetero couple.

I think people just need to learn how to open their minds and accept the fact that Homosexual people are no different than Heterosexual, nor should they be treated differently.

The whole subject just makes me sad because today's society is just so screwy.


Oh, and I wanted to add... BRAVO KAREN.. that was an excellent post.

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Originally posted by guineapiglover4ever
ohh i am srry i didnt mean for my point of veiw to be mean.
sometimes i write entensivly when i am expressing my opinion:o
well my mom also said that it wasnt god's will so i also added that into it

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again i am soo srry

I have not participated in so many of these threads - the election, gay rights, abortion etc. etc. because it's hard to stop with just one statement. But now I just have to wonder about the term I'm reading/hearing all over the place about how "family values" are first and foremost in everyones mind right now. "Family Values"?? I don't know about some of you (some I do) but in my family (weird as it is/was) we believe in tolerance, acceptance, forgiveness, love and kindness to the less fortunate, individual rights. Well, I could go on but don't speak of "family values" as if yours is the only one that matters if for whatever reason your FAMILY does not have the same values as mine. Good for you, but that doesn't make mine wrong. Heavy sigh:

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Originally posted by buckner
I'd also like to point out if the government was out of a lot of "social" but legal acts, this country would be in one hell of a hole. Correct, I don't feel the government should be taking MY money because they don't realize how much they already have, but there are reasons we have LAWS.. for people to obide by them.

And another thing, it says no where in the constitution about Separation of Church and State. Find it, and show me.. but I can guarantee that won't happen because it's not there. I've looked, many times. It does say that we can't shove one religion down someone's throat and enforce it, but no where does it say we can't have Church and State coincide.

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The First Amendment to The Constitution:

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Article [I.] (See Note 13)
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

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Originally posted by buckner
There's a reason homosexual couples can't get married - it's ILLEGAL! I think it's PATHETIC that states even had to put an admentment change question on the ballots this election.

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You do realize that times and laws change, right?

It used to be LEGAL to own people. The 13th Amendment freed all slaves in the United States. The 14th Amendment made all freed slaves US citizens. The 15th Amendment was made to let all freed slaves vote in the US. Would you prefer that these amendments were not ratified?

Women were granted the right to vote via the 19th amendment. Would you prefer that hadn't passed? Of course not. Was that pathetic?

Many people were opposed to these amendments in their times. Many thought they were pathetic, but after years of fighting a war and fighting for the right to vote, we became a little more enlightened here in the USA.

Hopefully, one day soon, everyone can have the right to marry.

I wish the world could be tolerant, less frightened of people who are “different” from what they may be used to, and less frightened of progress and change. If a law is unjust why shouldn't it be changed? Is it unjust to forbid people to marry and create families, if they want to? If not, why? Because those families would be "different"? There are already many different types of families.

I just simply don't understand intolerance. It baffles me.

Bucker, I don't think that wanting rights blinds the idea of marriage. Yes, many hetro couples choose not to get married, but that is their choice they have that option. For me, if I decide I want to spend my life with them I want to have the rights that everyone else is allowed. If my partner is dying, I want to be allowed to be there by her. Not forced to sit in a waiting room because I'm not "family". If gay marriages were legal I doubt that hospitals would deny them their rights. Why? Because hospitals already get a large amount of lawsuits a year, why add to that?

If I wanted to my parter and I could walk into any of Tucson's gay friendly curches and ask for a wedding, and they would actually give us a ceremony. Yes, there actually are pastors out there that will perform a marriage ceremony for gay and lesbian couples! However, if I ever decided I wanted to get married I would still like to have the rights that every other american citizen is allowed.

Personally I think baning gay marriages promotes hate and intolerance. It teaches people that if you are gay you are less of a citizen and don't deserve the same rights as everyone else. People are allowed their religious freedom, you are free to hate me for being gay or free to love me but disagree with me. But that doesn't mean I'm not an american citizen who wants to be treated with the same rights and respects as everyone else.

In Kentucky, we already had laws that prevented same-sex couple from marrying, so the whole point of passing a marriage amendment to the Kentucky Constitution was kind of pointless in that respect. Here is the text of the amendment:

Are you in favor of amending the Kentucky Constitution to provide that only a marriage between one man and one woman shall be a marriage in Kentucky, and that a legal status identical to or similar to marriage for unmarried individuals shall not be valid or recognized?

The stupid part about this is that the second part of the amendment, "and that a legal status identical to or similar to marriage for unmarried individuals shall not be valid or recognized" can apply to straight AND gay couples. It's so vague. The fear is now that the amendment will put unmarried heterosexual AND homosexual couples "outside the purview of family court, deny them protection afforded by domestic violence laws and prohibit institutions from providing domestic partner benefits to employee."

http://www.kypost.com/2004/10/26/amend102604.html

I don't think the ramifications of these amendments, at least in Kentucky's case, were fully thought out. Now we're going to have a lot of judges struggling to rule from this amendment and trying to decide how to uphold it. That's one of the many reasons I voted against it. Of course, it passed.....and most of the people in Kentucky who voted for it weren't even aware that gay marriage was already illegal in Kentucky anyway. :rolleyes:

I support it 100 million percent. (Support Gay marriages that is.)

Who's to say that two men or two women can't marry? The government obviously but its NOT their place. It's not the governments LIFE, so why should they even think about banning it?

It shouldn't have been an issue to vote on, and it still shouldn't be one now, Gay marriages SHOULD be allowed. Everywhere. Period.

It's not fair to them, at all.. Imagine how YOU would feel, just put yourself in their shoes when your saying "It's wrong." and "It needs to be banned, because thats GROSS!"

Say you and the love of your life, wanted to get married, but you couldn't because the laws opposed it. Thats got to be a horrible HORRIBLE feeling..

:(

In my opinion, I do not find it right for gay people to get married. I don't think it is right and I don't think that is the way it should be. However, I do respect other people's choices and if their choice is to marry somebody with the same gender as themselves, than that is their choice, and they can live their life as they please.

Thank you PCB, as well as many others of you, for voicing your opinions! I think it's really interesting to see what everyone thinks, even though we may have opposing views. :)



I agree with Amber...
I also really liked Karen's post, and Kay also made some good points, as well as many others of you!

Thanks again for sharing your opinions, everyone! :)

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Originally posted by popcornbird

The fact is, homosexuality has always been disapproved of in most places, since the beginning of time. Its not something 'new' or something 'this society' disapproves of. 'Today's society' is actually more accepting of it than the world has ever been.

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First, your post was very interesting and not offensive in any way that I could see. I do just want to point out that if you do some research you will find that the above statement is very untrue.

MOST societies, particularly earlier ones, had no problem with homosexuality. The ancient Greek religion had a beautiful story about love, and finding your "other half", be it male or female.

I know there are almost endless other examples (Native American culture, Druids, etc) but I'm wiped right now. I'll break out my books tomorrow and find more information.

Buckner: The constitution does not say the exact words "Separation of Church and State", BUT the passage Karen quoted says the EXACT same thing, just different wording. :)

Quite frankly, the government needs to get out of people's personal lives. If you're not doing something that can cause harm to someone, let it be. If you're doing something that can cause harm, then and only then the government needs to step in.

My problem with the extremists on both the left and the right is that they continuously override the constitution, and do it without following the process in place to change it. The 10th amendment explicitly leaves the states a great deal of power, and it has been ignored for years. It has become a document of convenience, put into play only when one side or the other deems it to be in their interest. At least in placing an amendment to the constitution in play, the President has followed the process outlined in the constitution, rather than pass a law and hope the courts adjudicate it the way they want (Campaign finance reform, anyone?). The amendment has to be passed by a super majority in both the house and the senate, and then has to be ratified by 3/4 of the state legislatures (38 states), which through the years has rarely happened.

I truly don't understand how gay marriage affects anyone .....except people that are gay. I can understand individual religions or churches banning marriage, they even have the right to refuse to marry heterosexual couples for some reasons.........but absolutely not the government. There is supposed to be a separation of church and state in this country and that clearly isn't the case. Like it or not, this country is a melting pot of different races, different religions (not all Christian I might add) and different sexual preferences. Our leaders should keep that in mind a bit more. It comes down to this IMO: If you don't believe in same sex marriage.....Don't marry someone of the same sex as yourself. A lot of people frown on couples that only live together and here you actually have couples that want to get married and people complain! Mind boggling.

And the following is a joke, so don't beat me up about it: When my husband and I argue I like to say: I don't see why gays can't marry.........why should heterosexuals be the only ones allowed to ruin their lives!

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Originally posted by skydiveaddict

And the following is a joke, so don't beat me up about it: When my husband and I argue I like to say: I don't see why gays can't marry.........why should heterosexuals be the only ones allowed to ruin their lives!

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LMAO!!!!! :D :D :D

Skydiveaddict I see this is your first post here, so Welcome and may I say what an interesting post you wrote, I am in complete agreement with you there, and your joke was in good taste, can't see anyone getting upset with that, it was funny.

I didn't read the whole thread, but I'm going to voice my opinion on this subject.

In my beliefs, i believe a marrige should be between a man and woman. It's the awful truth you know, but just because I don't support gay marriages doesn't mean I dislike homosexuals or anything.

I love how people equate my marrying my concenting, adult girlfriend to marrying my DOG! You make it seem like we are dirty and should be ashamed of who we are. We are PEOPLE, citizens, human beings. NOT animals! I vote. I pay taxes. I work. I live. and I love. How dare someone try to make it sound like Homosexuality should still be considered a mental disease. Because that's what it sounds like when you jump from gay marriages to bestiality.

And as much as I hate to bring culture and religion into it... here goes........ America, as a culture, is young! Very very very young! And founded off of so many different cultures, we really don't have one to call our own. The same goes with religion. Christianity is such a young religion compared to most of the others. Most American Indian tribes revered homosexuals as holy people, believing they had special insight. The same is true for Pagans and Hawaiian culture. Buddhism, one of the oldest religions, does not condemn homosexuals. In fact, it seems to be only the 'newer' religions that seem to do more condemning rather than condoning.

I can't believe anyone would want to put my right to see my partner in the hospital in the hands of the insurance companies!! How would you feel if you went to see someone who was critically ill, possibly dying, and they told you you couldn't. Because you weren't considered family? I'd like everyone to think about all the hell homosexuals have to go through..... all the pain, all the hassles, all the denied rights, all the hate crimes...... and pretend that it was happening to the straight community. How would you feel?

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Originally posted by heinz57_79
In fact, it seems to be only the 'newer' religions that seem to do more condemning rather than condoning.

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Because the Bible says its wrong, and we all know the bible is 100% correct. Right? ;)

Heinz57-79 I understand how you feel. Most here in Ohio didn't really read past the first line of the amendment to see that this issue will effect many more than just "those gay people". I am a heterosexual female who has made the choice NOT to marry my partner. Until recently I didn't think I would need to because he would have rights to see me in the hospital etc. I actually thought everyone would have that right. Guess I was looking at the world through rose colored glasses.

I have many other religious leaders I can quote here that state they are FOR same sex marriage and if you would like to read the whole thing....PM me and I will gladly send it to you.

IMHO I always thought the constitution (be it state or federal) was there to GIVE rights, not take them away. Didn't we try that with the ban on acohlol in the '20's? It didn't work, and I know that at some point my sister and her gf as well as other friends will be able to join in marriage and receive the same bene's (and heartach ;) ) as the 'straight' crowd. Until then, we who believe in a persons right to freedom and happiness should continue to try and help those who do not understand how two women or two men can and should be married and allowed the same rights as a man and a woman in a marriage.

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Originally posted by micki76
Because the Bible says its wrong, and we all know the bible is 100% correct. Right? ;)

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Like I said... the Bible just says it's wrong for 2 MEN to be together. So that means I'm free and clear right? hehehe ;)

Heinz until someone has been in your shoes, they really cannot know what if feels like, we can only imagine, you are being made to feel like a second class citizen, which is so wrong, me I just cannot believe the intolerence in this world still happening, when are we going to move with the times, and let people be who they are,if you are not harming anyone else, it is no business but your own, how you live.

In this thread I can really hear your pain, and it is shameful that anyone should feel that way in this day and age.

HUGS.:)

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Originally posted by skydiveaddict
I can understand individual religions or churches banning marriage, they even have the right to refuse to marry heterosexual couples for some reasons.........but absolutely not the government.

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I completely agree and I would like to hear opinions on this from the people who agree with it being banned by the Government.

If certain religions want to label it as evil, that is their business. The country should not be expected to follow the same philosophies.

Tell me how two gay people marrying will hurt anybody, and I'll tell you I'm against it. Until then, I will support it 100%.

It really is disgusting that people compare homosexuality to beastiality. Two consenting adults is different than adult and animal with no voice of its own. To even compare the two is horrifying. I'm extremely offended and I can only imagine how offensive that is to someone who is gay.

I am sad that we don't live in a tolerant world.

If I had a gay son I would be ALL for him getting married.....


That way I wouldn't have to shell out for the wedding.


;)

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Originally posted by aly
It really is disgusting that people compare homosexuality to beastiality. Two consenting adults is different than adult and animal with no voice of its own. To even compare the two is horrifying. I'm extremely offended and I can only imagine how offensive that is to someone who is gay.

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I am not religious, so, I don't have that guiding my decision on what's right or wrong. But, I think when people are comparing homosexuality to beastiality, it's basically saying that according to the bible, a sin is a sin is a sin. But, I'm going to read back and see if there's something else in this thread, to make sure. But, yeah, according to the bible lying is just as sinful as murder. Anyway....yet another reason I refuse to go to church. ;)

Ok, so I read a little more of the posts, and, found the one mentioning something goofy about marrying your dog. I mean, really, it's a completely different species, but, if you'll notice the context surrounding that statement, it's not the only goofy thing said. I'd take it with a grain of salt. It honestly made me laugh, it's so absurd.

This thread has provoked something that has always been in the back of my mind. Probably since the first day I heard that being gay was a "sin".

A few thoughts that have stemmed from this thread:

*God created us all. He knows our heart, He knows who we are.

Lets say that it is a sin. Well, lots of stuff is a sin. Why do we sin? We sin for different reasons, depending on what that sin is. Only God is allowed to condemn us. That's it. No one else can tell us what we've done wrong unless it hurts someone else. So why, why, is sexual preference such a taboo sin? Is not thinking impure thoughts (evil/hateful), stealing, murdering, etc. worse? Love, regardless of who its for, is wrong? Why, aren't we to love our neighbor? Isn't loving our neighhor suposed to symbolize everyone?? If someone is brought into our lives, presumibly by God (right??) and we love them, that's wrong because they are the same sex?

I don't get it. I've always had a hard time with this issue. I've actually walked out of my in-laws church and have NEVER set foot in the place since because they were PREACHING that it was a sin.

*I also believe that through prayer and listening, I communicate with God. If, this is such a horrible sin, and its always been on my heart, how come He hasn't taught me otherwise?

*How come we have laws that disclude any loved one, related or not, in situations like Sandra stated? Some of my friends are MORE THAN family...if I were on my death bed, I'd have to have them there. When I was in the hospital, three of my friends came to visit, granted, my parents were out of town, but compared to David and my mother-in-law, they were who brightened my days.

Why cant a friend and I, heterosexual or homosexual, buy a home together and not have the same rights as someone who is married? Why on earth did someone think that once someone was married they were entitled to these benefits? Where's the logic behind that?

*How come, just because the beliefs of our current president, do we have to live and be effected by his beliefs? Don't we have voices? If we're going to blaim the current president and his beliefs, don't we need to address the rest of the worlds leaders? (forgive me, I don't know if its legal in many countries :o )

I will continue thinking and praying on this issue.

I have tried so hard to stay out of this thread but here goes...

I believe in the Bible and what the Bible says. I believe in spiritual things and that they effect our lives and the way we choose to live.

I believe marriage is a union between a man and a woman because that is the covenant God gave us. We can't rewrite the Bible or change God's mind.

If homosexuals want to unite in a way that joins them as a couple and gives them rights, like benefits, and rights when their partner is sick and such... then I believe they are entitled (sp) to those rights... I don't believe President Bush is trying to keep homosexuals from having certain rights... I think he is just trying to protect the covenant God gave us in the Bible. And for the record... I believe they should make some kind of ammendment regarding heterosexuals and divorce and adultry and such. Marriage is a beautiful thing.. and heterosexual couples should respect it more. I believe too that it should be made DIFFICULT for a couple to get a divorce. The Bible says God hates divorce.!!

:)

I'm glad it's not difficult for divorce. I was married to a horrible man and had been put through enough. To have to jump through hoops to get a divorce would have made it even worse.

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Originally posted by dukedogsmom
I'm glad it's not difficult for divorce. I was married to a horrible man and had been put through enough. To have to jump through hoops to get a divorce would have made it even worse.

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Well of course if there is enough reason.. Im talking about the people like "BRITTANY SPEARS" who take it as a joke or divorce just because their husband doesn't make enough money to buy them all they want.

Ok it's time for my (usual late) 2 cents.

I was actually afraid to look at this thread because it has come up so often at work in the break room. I have been so emotionally tore up lately that I didn't think I could handle this. But I realized quickly the major difference: at work this coworker was shoving her beliefs down my throat making me feel like she was backing me into a corner. Here everyone states their opinions as just that their opinions so I guess I could digest them much better.

About the statement that hate is taught; I truely believe love and tolerance is taught through family just as well. I was raised through the first 5 years of my life by only my single 20-something mother and my grandparents. Grandpa in particular taught my respect of other's culture and beliefs because no one but the God or Gods knows for sure what is right and what is wrong. I've had gone through my family history trying to figure out what we believe in and I've found out we believe in love for our fellow man.

I have no reason to be against gays or gay marriage, I'm all for it.
Those who have told me that gays have no right to marriage I take as a personal attack. (I'm not talking about anyone on here) Not an attack against me but my family. I have family members (cousins mainly) who are gay and I feel that by saying they have no right to marry; you're saying that they have no basic rights as a human to love who they want to love and be the person they want to be. My theory is God made all of us the way we are (gay, straight, black, white, a little out there ect.) for a reason only known to him/her/them. Maybe when we get to where ever we personally believe we are going in the end, he/she/they will let us know.


Disclaimer: The preceeding comments were written purely on the author's opinion and is not meant to demean or belittle other's beliefs nor was it meant to tick anyone off

Don't care - if gays want to marry it is fine with me. I'm not threatened.

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I think he is just trying to protect the covenant God gave us in the Bible. And for the record... I believe they should make some kind of ammendment regarding heterosexuals and divorce and adultry and such.

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Yes, but if he did that heteros would complain because of seperation of church and state. However they look the other way when it comes to gays and lesbians. It's not the presidents job to protect the convenant of God.

Hey guys -- would you mind if I were to use some of your opinions for an essay in school?

I have to create an essay about a subject I feel strongly about.

I have to come up with two different sides, although I completely disagree with one side.

I need to state my opinions, and then the opinions of those who disagree with Gay Marriages.

My side of the essay will be simple.. but i've never understood the other side, so it will be very hard.

So, with everyone's permission to use the reasons why they are against Gay marriages, it'd be a lot easier.


Would you guys mind? :)

I don't think we should flame each other for our beliefs. Don't make one side the bad guys here, ok?

I want the people who do believe in it to keep believing in it, because its what you stand for, and I respect that.

Why I don't belive it is because for 1) Has alot to do with my religion, and 2) the way my parents brought this subject to me.

I just think that it should be between man and woman, like it always has been. Even though some of you all disagree.

-Kay, even though my info isn't the greatest explained feel free to use any of it.

Kay feel free to use anything I"ve said. :)

I have not responded to this thread, but have been reading all of your responses with interest, and it has prodded me to find out more of what my church believes about this issue. I did a web search tonight because I don't have an updated copy of the Book of Discipline, but what I learned was interesting. I'm going to absorb more of it....I have bookmarked the page, and maybe I'll come back and say more after I understand it better. It pretty much follows my own belief that regardless of whether homosexuality and same sex marriages follow our Christian beliefs, our church practices tolerance and embraces all. Clergy members are not allowed to perform same sex marriages, according to what I read, but the church, overall, has broadened it's views and is much more tolerant. I am comfortable in saying that I am proud of the stance my church has taken on the issue. While recognizing some biblical issues, all are welcome, and that is the way that I have always felt, personally.

Logan

I should have started studying up on this and other issues a long, long time ago. :o