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Saddam was pulling body parts off of HIS people, gassing themQuote:
Originally posted by popcornbird
What's the difference between Saddam and these US troops? Really........if you think about it........what's the difference?
and bending them into shapes that no human body could endure.
Who spoke for them???
If it's any consolation, the people tortured in this scandal at least have a voice.
OHHHH I didn't mean to compare every American soldier to Saddam. I did not mean that AT ALL!!! I was comparing the ones involved in the sexual/physical abuse of the prisoners. Those people, have no honor in my eyes. You cannot generalize all of the troops because of this, because most of them, simply, are NOT such people. I was comparing the ones involved in the abuse to Saddam..........no one else! Don't get me wrong. :)Quote:
Originally posted by 2kitties
It's awful Pops and those guilty lowlifes should be courtmarshalled, punished and made to serve as examples.
But to compare an honorable American Soldier to Saddam is --- well-- I don't have words for how wrong it is. When my father, grandfather, 2 uncles, and great great grandfathers served our country, not to meantion many other of my loved ones, I can promise you with all my heart they were on a level of humanity that Saddam Hussein could never even imagine, much less aspire to.
I'm glad you explained yourself, PCB!!! :)
I know what ya mean Pops. Didn't mean to sound like I was pointing you out. Just wanted to clarify that there are decent- more decent than I'll ever be- people in the American service. And I know that there are more people than not in the service and even the goverment who have honorable intentions for this quagmire we call the war against terror.
Then there are those who make MILITARY prisoners get naked and be humiliated and abused.
Then there are these people: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html whose idea of en eye for an eye toward CIVILIANS is clearly nearsighted.
I tried to post the Nick Berg story earlier.
What a bunch of brave people those terrorists are, hiding their faces in the photos and videos...
and then yelling "god is great" right before they
cut this guys head off...
Chances are we won't hear squat from the arab league about that....
We also have the palestinian's using dead Israeli's bodies as barganing chips...
You know, I was pretty disgusted with the photos from the Iraqi prison, that showed all of humanity sinking to new depths...But to make a video tape of an execution like that shows why the whole world has to band together to stop this kind of madness...
I liken it to living in a neighborhood and having the police kicking down doors trying to find criminals living in that area....If the people on that street refuse to assist the authorities in eliminating this kind of scum, those same people have NO right to complain and moan about that kind of police action taking place.
Well said Richard! You'd think....Quote:
Originally posted by RICHARD
I always thought humanity was a virtue, not a another 2 week class in basic training.
So you know what I meant? Does that mean you were calling the troops that committed these acts honorable?!?! :eek: My goodness. I don't think people forcing others to commit homosexual acts with each other, having sex with prisoners, pulling naked prisoners on a leash, terrorizing them by tying them up naked and surrounding them with dogs, abusing and humiliating them, etc. are honorable in ANY sense of the word! The soldier that has the most honor in my eyes is the one who exposed this whole situation. He sure is one wonderful, brave man, who had the courage to do the right thing. I know there are MANY good ones like him. I was only comparing the troops committing these abuses to Saddam.Quote:
Originally posted by 2kitties
I know what ya mean Pops. Didn't mean to sound like I was pointing you out. Just wanted to clarify that there are decent- more decent than I'll ever be- people in the American service. And I know that there are more people than not in the service and even the goverment who have honorable intentions for this quagmire we call the war against terror.
Then there are those who make MILITARY prisoners get naked and be humiliated and abused.
Then there are these people: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html whose idea of en eye for an eye toward CIVILIANS is clearly nearsighted.
I know.......I just read that story on CNN. I have no words to describe my anger on that. :mad: I hate these people. I hate all of this crap going on in the world. I hate it. Sickening..........absolutely sickening. :(:mad:
As to what you said about US troops doing it to military people, I'm listening to the radio right now, and they're saying 90% of the people held in the prison are innocent and have nothing to do with anything going on. 90% are NOT military prisoners. Our troops that did this, abused innocent people as well. I hate them all.....(the troops committing these crimes as well as those crazy, mad Al-Qaeda/Saddam people). :mad: Sometimes I wish I wasn't born in this crazy world.
Pops, where do you get that I said the abuse was honorable? That isn't at all what I was saying. You know me better than that.
pcb,
This is a real touchy subject for everyone.
There are times when I read thru a post and get really angry, then, for good measure, I read thru it again and see that I drop words and read with my heart..
If I may...
There are America soldiers, citizens and citizen/soldiers who are rebuilding Iraq as we speak....The only time we hear about them is when they are assasinated for trying to help the people of Iraq....
The people who are in charge of MOST of the Middle eastern countries would like nothing better than to see the US fall flat on their faces.....
I mean, here comes a country and does more for the people than the people in charge.
Who's the evil empire then?
Oh I'm so sorry. I guess I misunderstood you. I went back and read your post, and wondered where on earth I got that from. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Of course I know you better than that.........that is why I was shocked that you would say something like that. Now that I went back, I see that I misread your post. Next time, I will read posts 10 times before hitting the reply button. :pQuote:
Originally posted by 2kitties
Pops, where do you get that I said the abuse was honorable? That isn't at all what I was saying. You know me better than that.
<<-- sends pops a big ole kiss
I know this is off topic, A New Zealander was just killed in Iraq, he was doing a job there, re-building the country , he was an engineer, can we just spare a thought for his family right now, I know he is one of many, his car was ambushed, he along with two other men were killed, their car riveted with bullets.
And PCB I hear ya, and I agree with you too.!!
:o :p He he heQuote:
Originally posted by 2kitties
<<-- sends pops a big ole kiss
It's not off topic.Quote:
Originally posted by carole
I know this is off topic, A New Zealander was just killed in Iraq, he was doing a job there, re-building the country
It a sign that he thought enough of other people to take a chance and make someone else's world a bit better.
God bless him and his family.
I just heard the last 37 seconds of the videotape.
God bless the people who killed that man.
There can only be forgiveness for people who have no souls.
Amen Richard. The insane depravity of this execution makes me sick to my stomach. May God be with his family and help them through this. What a horrid thing to see that video knowing it was his last and what was to follow. It's hard to imagine hatred running that deep. Scares the cr@p out of me for the future of this world. :( :( :(Quote:
Originally posted by RICHARD
I tried to post the Nick Berg story earlier.
You know, I was pretty disgusted with the photos from the Iraqi prison, that showed all of humanity sinking to new depths...But to make a video tape of an execution like that shows why the whole world has to band together to stop this kind of madness...
One American soldier's videp diary will be shown/discussed on
the next 60 Minutes II program next week.The woman soldier
talks about her feelings in being inside the prison.....
By Giles Elgood
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - An American soldier's video diary showing her disdain for Iraqi detainees who died in her charge is to be broadcast by a U.S. network on Wednesday in a further escalation of the prisoner abuse scandal that has shaken the Bush administration and provoked world outrage.
CBS, which two weeks ago broadcast the first pictures of Iraqi prisoners being abused in Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, said on Tuesday its "60 Minutes II" program would show video footage depicting conditions there and at another U.S.-run prison in southern Iraq (news - web sites) called Camp Bucca.
Photographs of Iraqi prisoners being sexually humiliated, threatened by dogs and piled into pyramids as grinning American soldiers look on have been published round the world, dealing a major setback to U.S. attempts to stabilize Iraq.
The Pentagon (news - web sites) has said that it has more pictures and video of abuse that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has warned may be even more shocking.
An Islamic Web site said on Tuesday that an American civilian, Nick Berg from Philadelphia, had been beheaded by an al Qaeda leader in Iraq in revenge for the "Satanic degradation" of Iraqi prisoners.
CBS said the home video did not show scenes of abuse but included comments by the soldier, whose name was not revealed to protect her identity, that make clear her dislike for the camp and the prisoners under her control.
"I hate it here," she said on the tape. "I want to come home. I want to be a civilian again. We actually shot two prisoners today. One got shot in the chest for swinging a pole against our people on the feed team. One got shot in the arm. We don't know if the one we shot in the chest is dead yet."
In her video, the soldier described the hazards of Camp Bucca. "This is a sand viper," she said. "One bite will kill you in six hours. We've already had two prisoners die of it, but who cares? That's two less for me to worry about."
The soldier said about three prisoners broke out of the camp every week, but they did not try to escape when she was on duty.
"It's 'cause they are scared of me," she said. "I actually got in trouble the other day because I was throwing rocks at them."
CBS said another soldier spoke of a chaotic situation at Camp Bucca with a dangerously low ratio of guards to prisoners.
Tim Canjar, who was discharged from the military for abusing Iraqi prisoners, said that during one disturbance "at one point, it was me and another soldier guarding. I was watching 535 prisoners on my side ... The prisoners started hitting us."
Fellow soldier Lisa Girman, who was discharged with Canjar, said commanders ignored the problems at Camp Bucca.
She complained of "the ignorance of the chain of command not to listen to the person who was actually on the front line."
Girman's and Canjar's families tried to draw attention to the problems at Camp Bucca last year. They called Rumsfeld's office repeatedly and talked to his staff, but got no response, CBS said. Their letters to the White House and two senators were also unanswered.
Girman and Canjar, and a third soldier, Scott McKenzie, were discharged for punching and kicking Iraqi prisoners. They have vowed to appeal the decision and want the U.S. Congress to investigate.
Quote:
Originally posted by lizbud
Photographs of Iraqi prisoners being sexually humiliated, threatened by dogs and piled into pyramids as grinning American soldiers look on have been published round the world, dealing a major setback to U.S. attempts to stabilize Iraq.
Listen to Nick Berg scream with his last breath.... and listen to the chant of his executioners, calling that their god is great.
I hope that anyone who hears it remembers it for a long time..
And I hope it rallies all the muslims to denounce that kind of horror....
From among that din you'd think that some decent, humane voice would rise above the others...
I hope the backlash from this tape is a rallying cry for all humanity to stop this nonsense....They really think showing a man having his head taken off his body helps their case??
I should think not.
Two wrongs don't make a right.....but the silence afterwards is just as damning.
And before I forget....
The media in the US has shown those photos time after time.
To support the troops now is to put this into perspective-they ain't all like that.
Sometimes chipping away at the few bad ones, paints everyone else in that same color...
We effed up.....
And it makes no sense to keep beating our breasts trying to atone for the sins of the few......Those few painted all Americans
for the planet. Uninformed people will believe that we are all like that.
We are sorry.
And while we wait for Uncle Sam to lose the black eye, some punks dress up and cuts the head off of a person who wasn't even in the fight.
It shows me a lot.
While we put a face to our 'bad guys' the bad guys on the other side hide under ski masks and some headbands. They pick the 'toughest guy' out of the crowd for the execution-all the while screaming to their god that he is good.
Morons can't even figure out that any god would look at them, shake his head and toss them out of the joint.
We all fear what we can't put a face to, but in the end what does it matter? Evil only wins for a little while, and they know it.
Why not take on the Army, the Marines??
Nope, they pick on some young man trying to help the Iraqi people out and most of arab world can't grasp that...They side with the people that have kept then poor, isolated and in fear.
I once saw a picture of the earth from space, it showed the cities
at night. Patches of light all across the globe....until you hit the Middle East..The caption on the picture made a mention of that fact.
It makes it easier to accept the stories coming out of that area.
And I thought about what the people there feared more-
the darkness - or the men who have kept the light from reaching them.
-----------------------------------
There was 535 prisoners, they began to hit us.
So that entitled us to bag their heads, dog pile them naked and
pull all kinds of other stunts like that.....Why we even took pictures!
The same pictures that the media shows us over and over....
And when the wound stops bleeding let's take the bandage off and poke it some more-we haven't bled enough.
Isn't blood the all purpose cleanser in the world......
An eye for an eye..:rolleyes:
<<gets into bed with Richard.
I'm never in the doghouse! I do occasionaly come and read through as I find everyones differing opinions very interesting. I feel like I had no choice today as this horrific beheading has me terribly upset.
I have a stepson in Iraq who is in the Army and doing his service on a tank. He is stationed in Baghdad but was sent into Fallujah(sp) when all the trouble broke out. We currently have no idea where he is. We know that he is alive somewhere since the dreaded telegram or phone call has not come. I also have a brother is who is a police officer that has recently sent in his resume to go to Iraq to help with security. He is feeling so distraught and useless here watching it all on TV that he thinks he can maybe do something to help if he where actually there. My husband is a Vietnam Veteran who is sick over this whole thing but chomping at the bit to go do something to help the young soldiers. He feels that those who have served and understand this type of warfare can be helpful. He is too old now but the stress of his son and the memories of a similar war are really taking a toll on him.
My original views about us going to Iraq raised many questions but I will always support our troops 150%. After the recent outbreaks of American hostages and now this sickening beheading I think we should pull out lock stock and barrel!
Here is why I feel that way... I am a very reasonable person and I know that the Iraqi people have been severly oppressed and were in need of help. I believe that every nation should have stood up and put a stop to Saddam long ago. It was a Crimes Against Humanity issue for the last thirty years! But they didn't and we went in to end their oppression and stop terrorism. Ok, now we are there. We have Saddam, helped build a new government, working on restoring all basic needs, and generally trying to rebuild everything for them before we leave.
Now we have threats, hostage taking, RPG's killing drivers, and now a beheading. Until the Iraqi people stand together and say that this is wrong, we don't approve, and we will punish you for your crimes, then it will never change. I don't foresee any of the Middle East countries ever actually doing anything about the tactics of terrororism. If their own people won't make a stand then there is no way we can stop it. They don't like us and the majority hate us. I don't think anything we can do will ever make that stop.
So, because of our STUPID MEDIA we now have more pissed off terrorists with an excuse! The United States is being judged by the actions of a few very wrong soldiers. What if we viewed all of Iraq like their few stupid terrorists? We would wipe them off the face of the earth with just a small supply of our very powerful weapons!!! A couple of Daisy bombs and we could all go home!!!!!!!!!
I am so angry over these deaths and threats and that there is not a rise from the "Innocent Iraqi" people saying that this has to stop!! Where are the powerful Clerics??? They have so much power and yet all they say is that is not the right way and you don't hear anything more from them. Everything that I have ever learned about the Muslim religion has been a very beautiful thing. This crap that is going on has nothing whatsoever to do with religion or Allah or God or Muhammed!!! They scream "Holy War" and that makes it all ok because its done in the name of religion. BULL CRAP! They are mean, nasty, blood thirsty terrorists that are jealous of our American lives and the freedom we have!!!
If the people can't come together and help us help them then I say enough is enough and Adios Amigos!!!
I am also upset that this MURDER is not the latest talk at work! Has this become so common place that we just tend to let it go now?! I seem to be the only one that wants to discuss it. GEESH!
Ok, I know I don't have the answers to everything and I'm sure I would not handle any of it in the right way but it sure felt good to say(write) it and get it off of my chest!!!
May God Bless all of our troops and help ease the pain of the faimilies who have lost people. May a special blessing go to the family of the latest victim because they will have an image of this innocents death that hopefully none of us will ever have to know.
taken from USA Today:
"Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn, said that the military's investigations into the misconduct could be an opportunity to demonstrate the difference between the United States and Islamic terrorists. "There will be no al-Qaeda apologies," Lieberman said of the beheading."
Mr. Lieberman did not get my vote for VP. But sometimes, I really think he speaks from a thoughtful place. He's a very intelligent man who I think is a good official.
I think you are right on regarding Joe Lieberman, 2Kitties. OMG! I have agreed with you again!!! :eek:
In all seriousness, of all the Democratic candidates we saw earlier in the year, he is the one that was the most level headed and concerned.
I agree and I know we can't pull out now. It's nice to wish for though. I think my biggest problem is that I don't have much tolerence for weakness. Now don't misunderstand because we all have weaknesses, that is part of human nature, but enough is enough!!! The majority of them are willing to die for what they believe in so in my opinion they need to GET UP AND START HELPING OUT THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO HELP THEM!!! If they don't want our help then, FINE! If they think they were oppressed before wait until the Taliban and AlQueda(sp) come in and take over the country! There comes a time when you have to grow up, put up, and if you choose to SHUT UP then accept the consequences!Quote:
Perhaps this is why the people in the middle east cannot speak up - living in the dark of fear all their lives??? I dunno....
I'm sorry but I'm so upset about this whole thing!!!
Of course I sit here and talk about pulling out and if Kerry gets in and does such a thing I would be having a fit!!!
I know we can't leave them yet but I think there should be some ultimatums or something to get the Iraqi people to stop letting us handle everything!They would have far more pride in their country if they helped reshape it. It obviously isn't fear holding them back because they sure can gather a crowd to throw rocks at the troops and yell anti-american crap! Flag burning really brings out the power in them, don't you think? We keep wanting to see these poor weak Iraqi's but I see some pretty powerful ones on the news! Imagine if the fury that Americans seem to ignite in them were turned against terrorists? There would be no need for us ever worry again.
I also agree with that statement but it is time for the people to start redirecting the young and radical to something more constructive. The peaceful citizens need to stop crouching quietly and get up, make some noise, and make a difference!Quote:
Those creeps we see are largely young people with nothing better to do - smug and radical - the peaceful citizens more than likely crouching quietly in their homes.
I agree with everything you have said Sirrahbed but I'm not as patient or as tolerant as you. I will hold out for so long but then thats it. I don't want to flatten the whole place but I do want the Iraqi's to start standing beside us as we fight for them! I don't even care if they stand behind us! I just want them to stop crouching and get up and stand somewhere!!!!
This seems a bit like the story of the boy who kills his mother and father and then pleads for the court's mercy because he is an orphan....
The United States was not asked to liberate Iraq so why do we expect gratitude?
There are many oppressive regimes around the world...North Korea for example... but the partisan decision was made to "liberate" Iraq. Now it is not going well so it is everyone's fault...except those who made the decision to start the battle....
Quote:
Originally posted by 2kitties
<<gets into bed with Richard.
Are your feet warm?
;) :eek:
----------------------------------
As a patient American I think we should give the arab world another 5 minutes to recognize what THEIR people have done......If nothing happens, we lump them all together..
Political correctness be damned.
This goes beyond embarrassing a bunch of men in a prison. Only animals are beyond talking....and I think we have found a new species.
And I invite anyone, who does have a soul, to at least listen to the last 37 seconds of that tape.
Then make up you own mind.....BUT DO NOT COMMENT UNTIL YOU DO....You probably won't say much until you get the bile taste out of your mouth.
Then listen closely to the outrage in that part of the world.:rolleyes:
Nor were we attacked by Iraq.
They are many who have been opposed from the beginning. Including me. In fact, I believed, if he became president, Bush would find a war to fight.
And I also believe that Americans were seriously mislead about the situation in Iraq....WMD, etc. and were deliberately mislead to believe that there was a connection between 9/11 and Iraq.
I heard a comment the other day that totally blew my mind.
"If Bush had not been elected I don't think 9-11 would have happened. I think it was because of his dad"
Does anyone really believe that all of that planning and money that was spent to arrange such an elaborate plan of attack would have been left undone if anyone else were put in office? Does anyone really think that this form of life that is lower than any animal really gives a crap about who was president? Is it the need to find blame? Is it so hard to place the blame where it belongs? It is as if we want to pity the backwards souls and place the blame on Bush.
According to CNN and Fox news the beheading hasn't even made some of the Arab papers. The few that did report it didn't make it priority.
Oh well, another dead American. A group of maniacs cut off his head but we don't want to give them press.
A bad falafel?Quote:
Originally posted by sirrahbed
What killed 200.000 Iraqui Kurds???
Bad couscous?
Or bad shish kebabs?
I am sorry to say that this video and the inaction of muslim faith at large is far more damaging to them then our indiscretions with a bunch of prisoners. It has discredited an ancient religion that has many followers that do disaprove of an action like this....
I liken it to a street gang that hides thier faces to pull off a crime like this...then they hoot and
holler like the jackals they are, all the while slinking away when the lights go on.
They credit their god, their religion and al queda as their cause...
What a bunch of AH's.....
And the funniest/saddest part is that they wear American jeans, shoes, watch American movies and embrace all the American fads.....
I am not afraid of them.
If we turn tail and run we'll get another beating like we took on 9/11...
They truly believe that we will cower when we her the word al queda, osama bin laden and terrorism...
Back on Dec 7, 1941 we took a hit and we got together, held together and made it through that period in time....
Why can't we do it again?
Richard, I so agree! I know I said we should just pack it up but I don't really believe that. It was more of a retaliation remark, you know, like leave them to their own devices and see how far they get!!
I guess I'm an idiot but it would be nice to see a little gratitude and if nothing else I would certainly like to see a rise of the people against the torture of Americans. They were outraged over the torture of their own people by Saddam but seem to take the torture and murder of Americans all in stride. The sad thing is I think its becoming the same way here in the States. I have heard comments today along the lines of "Well they (Americans) should have known the risks when you went over there" I don't know that anyone thinks about being beheaded on video by a bunch of sick demons!!!!!!!
Anyway, Richard let me know when you think their 5 minutes is up! My clock is moving rather swiftly.
Times up.
One of the greatest tragedies in all this mess is that there were NO TERRORISTS in Iraq when the war started. Saddam made sure of that, and he had no connection to Al Quaida etc. (Bin Laden apparently despised him). It is also untrue to use the argument that "our country was brutally attacked" by Iraq. It wasn't. And: "We are not fighting "Iraq" - we are fighting the maniacs who are hiding in that country!" isn't quite true, they weren't there before America gave them the golden opportunity. Who were you fighting when you first invaded then? Saddam of course, not terrorists.
Now Iraq is crawling with terrorists, and the arab world hates America and the West even more bitterly than ever before.
There are an awful lot of people outside America who are of the opinion that Pres. Bush and his staff have done irreparable damage to the stability of the world. Like it or not, this is a fact. One can't help speculating that perhaps Bush started this as a personal vendetta due to Saddams' run in with his father. There have been too many lies, half truths and hypocrisy from this administration (is it a true representation of the American people? - I would prefer to think not).
The very least that the administration can be blamed for is a total lack of understanding of what it could and would lead to, and little interest in the problems that would emerge when the rebuilding of Iraq became necessary. They just don't seem to understand the mentality of people and cultures so different from themselves.
Now the unthinkable has happened, and America has to sort this out fast. The longer that Bush and Rumsfeld and the others wait before taking serious action to convince the rest of the world that they mean it, the worse the situation will become. They have both stood up and said "sorry" in a very low voice, but what is going to happen? Are some out-of-line bad apples in the military going to get a "reprimand"? That's nowhere near good enough. The whole chain of command has to be thoroughly investigated, and the sooner the better.
The argument that the other guys are much worse than us just doesn't do it I'm afraid, even though they are. The administration should have known this sort of reaction would come when it started the whole thing. I have little understanding of American politicians, but not blaming Bush then blaming "that blabbermouth coward KERRY and the stupid irresponsible MEDIA", isn't accepted as a rational argument outside America.
How on earth did they think the Iraqis were going to react? "In a civilized manner" perhaps?
And lets try and get the message out: terrorism is not Islam, it's sick people misusing it. I am amazed at the general ignorance of Islam and what it stands for. It has it's faults, and Sharia law and other excesses are totally unacceptable, but Christian fundamentalists and extremists are often no better I'm afraid. We must remember that a lot of terrible things have been done in the name of Christianity too.
How sad for all those upright honest soldiers that are down there in hell risking their lives and being let down by their leaders and dumped on by an indiscriminate, news hungry media. I have a very great respect for them.
And I believe the invasion of Iraq will enccourage terrorism more than most anything else. Someone said.."if the people we are holding in these prisons weren't terrorist before, they will be now.Quote:
That same terrorism is going to exist more and more in our own country if we do not do something.
If the WMD haven't been found by this administration's OWN weapons hunters, who will find them? (One of my favorite quips...of course we know Iraq has WMD...we have the receipts.)
I haven't found the "liberal" press yet! I think they are being entirely too soft on this administration. Their job is to report the news.
I believe this adminstration and this war has done more than anything to damage the standing of the United States of America to the rest of the world ...friend and foe alike. I hope we can recover....
And as for those young people...I want them home with their children, their families. NOT in some foriegn country dying for a reason I have not yet heard articulated.
(And by the way...why aren't we allowed by this administration to see the coffins of those who don't make it home??? I read in my newspaper...not known for its liberal bias!... of each soldier killed there. How it breaks my heart.)
Quote:
Originally posted by jonza
Now the unthinkable has happened, and America has to sort this out fast.
Unthinkable what?
One guy gets snuffed on a tape and that is supposed to cow us? Dude, they took out 3,000
people on one day and we are still on the planet..
That just shows their desparation and their inability to cobble together their 'army'.
It takes more that a bunch of punks with a video camera to scare us.
Lol, I'd be pissed off if I lived in a country that hasn't been able to give the people a wooden floor in 2000 years.......instead of being pissed off at the people who have kept them down they choose to take it out on us.....Look at all the countries who planned on world domination as a part of the plan and tell me where are they now?
We have made it to Formica floors in 227 years.
American braggadocio??? Yep, we worked ourselves to where we are today.....I think we deserve that much credit. But hey, when things go wrong, call up the Americans, they'll help us.......
Next time we should take the phone off the hook...
"I'm sorry, the number you have dialed is out of order or has been temporarily diconnected, please check the number you have dialed."
Thank you for your support.
I think Jonza has it right on (if you will pardon the dated expression). It's high time we opened out ears and eyes to honest opinions from someone from outside the USA who we have known, admired and laughed and cried with over the years, thank you Jonza.
Sorry, I didn't make that clear. I was referring to the fact that American and British soldiers have been discovered committing grossly unacceptable acts in the prisons in Iraq.Quote:
Originally posted by RICHARD
Unthinkable what?
He was the one with the brain on the ticket last time, at least in my opinion. Had he been the lead the Democrats might have won.Quote:
Originally posted by 2kitties
Mr. Lieberman did not get my vote for VP. But sometimes, I really think he speaks from a thoughtful place. He's a very intelligent man who I think is a good official.
All of that aside and back to the issues at hand, this thread has been a pleasure to read. Thank you all for that! I have nothing to contribute but just to say we have some really good minds here at PT and the dialog has been good all around on both sides of these difficult issues.
PS - Small rant here. Since Nick Berg is from the suburbs of Philly and I am about 10 miles outside of Philly the media is especially filled with the local aspects of the story. What grates on my nerves is the fact that reporters from all over the world are camped outside of his family's home to the extent that they are having a hard time getting through the crowd just running routine errands. :mad: Can't they just leave these heartbroken family members in peace to do their grieving and try and deal with their shattered lives. :mad:
Quote:
Originally posted by jonza
Sorry, I didn't make that clear. I was referring to the fact that American and British soldiers have been discovered committing grossly unacceptable acts in the prisons in Iraq.
thanks.
I thought you were talking about letting innocent American citizens wander about Iraq.
--------------------------------------
And finally,
The people who have brought you Homicidal Bus Bombings are said to have released a blurb and have condemned the Nic Berg murder.
Hezbollah, the palestinian terrorist group claimed that the execution of Berg is NOT what Islam is all about.
I am stumped.