Very well said, Debbie!:)
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Very well said, Debbie!:)
Yes, I'm outspoken on my views of animals being treated much less than children/human beings. I'm an animal advocate and very proud of it, there are many more who also share my views. In fact, there were many posters on this board who stated very similar to me there views on children. But that was ok, right?? I was the one picked to be singled out and lashed out at. I find many of your comments to be very offensive and it SHOWS me that you must want to start trouble with anyone that doesn't share your views. :rolleyes:
Yes, to the young girl who wanted to know if I would rescue the kittens in the burning building. You better believe I would!:) Would you let them burn over the child??? I find that to be a very cruel statement!:mad:
I've met so far some very nice people on this board and some not so pleasant individuals I see.:eek: Enough said.
Lisa & Sash
Well this thread is going to let me maybe surprize a few with my story. I didn't want any kids and I told hubby about it when we were dating. He said the same things as most of you. But I was very sure as I had inherited my fathers german timper. They called me corky at school cuz I would go off like a cork . Didn't take much for me to get pi$$ of. All went as planned (my plan) till 3 years of marrage I found the 2% of failerue on the pill . My daughter was born, 22 months later my son arrived another pill failure. Not that I failed they did. I was so scared I wouldn't be alone for months with my daughter (my mom and her are very bonded as a result cuz she was there to help me so much) I can't say I didn't lose it but never to what I thought I would(I thought I would be a physical abuser) I never did hit them . I did find I like kids at the age of 2 (i know most people don't like them then ) then each year after I enjoyed them more even as teens (crazy i know) . If I was to do it over I don't know if I would change it or not(glad i don't have to make that descion. ) I enjoy spoiling the neices and nephews ,will grandchildren if any ever appear but that is the kids choices.
I do try to make them very aware of the chances of family inherited diabetes . Had I known the history that would energe from the 2 families I would have been more likly to not have had them. 5 of the 6 grandpaernts are 2 on insulin, I have it . one or both of mine by 30 will have the disease. I tried to ward it off by really drilling good nutriation . After son was born hubby went for the neutering. It was a volentary thing as a gift to me since I went through the births.
Mydaughters birth was hard 18 hours but son was 4 and like having a bad case of gas no pain. (that came later as he grew up.):)
I think it is a persons choice and no one should pressure any one in to it.
parenting is no picnic and like pet ownership its a life time commitment. Like willie says you still worry and pray for them constantly.
Jen I would like to know how at 20 you were able to have the problem fixed? Here in less you have a medical problem they will not do it. I would have if that were the case. Are our countries that much different?
Now you are saying you would actually leave a child in a burning building and just save the animals?!
Let me tell you, everybody in this thread was very decent about their explaination on why they did not want children. They never said they would leave one to die!
I NEVER said such a thing, now did I?? Willie my boy you are putting words in my mouth.:confused:
Lisa & Sash
Willie, lisalee said nothing about leaving children in a burning apartment. Sirrahsim raised that analogy and lisalee responded by saying it's a cruel statement.Quote:
Originally posted by trayi52
Now you are saying you would actually leave a child in a burning building and just save the animals?!
Let me tell you, everybody in this thread was very decent about their explaination on why they did not want children. They never said they would leave one to die!
Maybe we should all stick to the original question as this is starting to turn into a child-bashing (figuratively, I mean) thread.
[Edit: oops, posted at the same time as lisalee :o ]
Then lisalee, you should explain yourself a little further, and not leave it as if you would!
I am not a boy, I am a proud mother, and grandmother! When you say something don't just leave it like you are going to be inhuman about the whole thing!
Nicole, go back and read her other post!
Yes. If I was put into this situation I would save the human child and let the kittens burn. I find it repulsive and very, very, very sad that you would even consider saving the kittens and leaving the child to die. Perhaps you misunderstood my post-go back and read it. I asked if you could save one or the other, which would you save? You stated that you would save the kittens. That means that you would let the child die. I am very, very, very sorry that you feel that way. Perhaps you had a bad experience as a child, but that is not a reason to allow a human child to die when you had the opportuinity to save her and decided to save soem animals instead.Quote:
Originally posted by lisalee
Yes, to the young girl who wanted to know if I would rescue the kittens in the burning building. You better believe I would!:) Would you let them burn over the child???
Your statements have mostly been very disturbing to me and I only hope that you will never be my neighbor. If my child was in one room and my cats in the other, and you saved my cats and knowingly let my child die... You better believe that I would press charges and see to it that legal action was taken...
And I find you to be frightening and small-minded.Quote:
I find it sad that kids/babies are placed so much higher in society than animals. I find people to be selfish that can't open there hearts to let an animal into there home. I find them to be the most selfish.
Can we not put personal attacks towards eachother?
That's why I was afraid to post.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by lisalee
I have a deep love of animals and perfer to make this world a better place for them as I grow older.
And how are the animals going to make this a better place for you? Are they going to work to make society better? Will they grow up to be scientists and teachers and judges and nurses? Will they maybe some day find a cure for cancer?
I find people to be selfish that can't open there hearts to let an animal into there home.
In case you hadn't noticed this is a PET forum. There are absolutely no people on here that haven't opened up their homes to an animal. In fact many have lots and lots of animals! If you are speaking about society as a whole, I would suggest you think again. Dogs, cats, birds, reptiles, whatever you can name, are living among us all over the world. I find your thinking to be very skewed and honestly a little scary.
What do you call a personal attack Kay?
WILLIE:
I would call this a personal attack.Quote:
Originally posted by Twisterdog
And I find you to be frightening and small-minded.
I would call what you just did a personal attack.
Since you needed an example, there are two.
Emma, how about this one:
What do you call that? Do you find that statement to be true?Quote:
I find it sad that kids/babies are placed so much higher in society than animals. I find people to be selfish that can't open there hearts to let an animal into there home. I find them to be the most selfish.
It wasn't an attack. And it wasn't personal, since I dont' know this person. It was my opinion, based on her comments. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Would you also call the following a "personal attack", as well? I certainly would.
Quote:
Originally posted by lisalee
... I find many of your comments to be very offensive and it SHOWS me that you must want to start trouble with anyone that doesn't share your views. :rolleyes: ... I've met so far some very nice people on this board and some not so pleasant individuals I see.:eek: Enough said.
Lisa & Sash
Yes, I would call those both personal attacks.
Sorry, Twisterdog. I just took it as a personal attack. But, I can understand how it isn't a personal attack, I suppose. :)
Here is my answer.
I have not yet chosen that I am not going to have children. I cannot yet make that decision, since I am a child myself.
It's ok. I suppose I should have said, "And I find YOUR VIEWS to be frightening and small-minded." instead. Better? :)Quote:
Originally posted by Dogz
Yes, I would call those both personal attacks.
Sorry, Twisterdog. I just took it as a personal attack. But, I can understand how it isn't a personal attack, I suppose. :)
So, does this mean that you find yourself to be selfish?Quote:
Originally posted by lisalee
I find people to be selfish that can't open there hearts to let an animal into there home.
:rolleyes:
Twisterdog: Yes, that would make it a statement. Personally, I think that they are true.
Emma, as you said you are young. I was not attacking you or Kay in any way. I am a mother and a grandmother. I am pretty sure your mothers would stand up and also defend you as human beings with the right to life.
Like Pam, said we all have pets in our homes, and love them dearly. I just think that lisalee's statement was totally uncalled for. She could have stopped it before she insulted every mother, mother to be, grandmothers and all would have been just fine.
Do you understand what I am saying Emma?
Yes, a lot of lisalee's statements were uncalled for.Quote:
Originally posted by trayi52
Do you understand what I am saying Emma?
I am reading through the whole thread now.
You know the sad thing is that often people will visit a forum such as this and get the members stirred up against each other and then they just slink off into the night. :rolleyes: To be honest, I didn't see any attacks here. I saw people defending their own viewpoints.
Emma, LOL, I don't mind being called a boy, I'm used to that. My god I used to get put in the boys homeroom in high school! Can you believe that? I was just a little old dum hick that didn't know what the devil was going on back then.
Willie:)
Personally I find anyone who takes things to the extreme scarey,. It is one thing to love and care for animals and to be an advocate ,but to take it to the extreme is frightening IMO.
Thanks Kay for bringing this thread back on a lighter tone, even though it has become heated again,(and I am not suprised as to why) but I can think of two things different to raising dogs and children, they don't cheek you back , or borrow the car lol.
I think if i were to take the easier option, it would be to raise dogs than children, but hey I am glad I didn't.!!!!:)
Now that you have put it in a different perspective, I can see exactly what you are saying, and I do agree.Quote:
Originally posted by Pam
You know the sad thing is that often people will visit a forum such as this and get the members stirred up against each other and then they just slink off into the night. :rolleyes: To be honest, I didn't see any attacks here. I saw people defending their own viewpoints.
Thank you, Pam. :)
I can see this is a one-sided conversation going on here. I don't have the time to respond to each of you personally but I do find many of you to be very insulting and also very frightening. The individual that would let the innocent kittens die in a fire is very scarey too and small minded, as many of you seem to be.
I have much more productive things to do with my time than argue on message boards. If there are any more nasty comments directed at myself please send them via pm/email.
My opinions and views are only mine and they are too be respected just as everyone else who posted on this thread, not to be personally attacked.
Lisa & Sash
Ok- let me spell out what people are concerend about. You said that if you were put into the situation where you could save the life of a human child or of a box of kittens that you would save the kittens. That also means that you would willingly let the human child die. Saving an animal at the expense of a human child's life is a very unsettling thought for nearly everyone here.Quote:
Originally posted by lisalee
I can see this is a one-sided conversation going on here. I don't have the time to respond to each of you personally but I do find many of you to be very insulting and also very frightening. The individual that would let the innocent kittens die in a fire is very scarey too and small minded, as many of you seem to be.
Saying that you would let a child die just so that you could save some kittens is saying that you would willingly commit a criminal act against another human just so that you could save a couple of kittens. That is exactly what you said. So do not respond by saying "That's not what I said" If you would like to further explain yourself than please do.
I feel confident in saying that Yes, most of the people here would let the kittens die IF they had to make the choice between the kittens lives or a human life.
What I am not saying is that I would just let kittens die if there was something that I could about it. My question was about a choice- kittens or human child. Most people with a firm grip on reality would choose to save the human child. That's just how it is. It is disturbing to think that ANYONE would save the kittens and let a human child die...
I can't think of any more ways to word this so that you might understand so I will leave it at that.
Ditto, Missy. If my house was burning, I would save my human children first, then I would go back and save the kittens too. I love my human children, and I love my cats, dogs, bird, ferret and whatever other animal I happen to have. There is no way, that I would not attempt to save them too.
Just think of it this way, we save the children so that someday they may save the life of one of these small lives too. We have to have people, which starts out as babies, to be able to save these animals that you have put such a high value on. We all value the lives of our pets and no doubt we would all do our very best to save them from whatever danger came along.
Willie
You my dear are going way off the topic you started here. I recall the question being our views on having children?? I stated my views, you attacked and other's followed.
Lisa & Sash
*sigh* one more time
I did not take this way off topic. You did by making a degrading comment about the value of human life when it was not at all called for. If you hold little value for human life than fine. You are entitled to think whatever you want. However, I am tired of giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming that you just don't understand what we are trying to say. Your comment was not an informational and helpful one. That on top of the fact that you said that you would be willing to indirectly murder a human child just to save a box of kittens. We all value human life as well as animal life here. I'm sorry that you have no answer to our comments and that you have to resort to changing the subject. This thread is about the decision to have children. If you have any comments about THAT please give them. You threw this off topic by making a radical statement about the value of human life. Nearly everyone in here was offended. That should tell you something. Please read the intro again and if you have any comments to add on the subject matter please do.
Everybody stayed on topic, lisalee here is where you took it off the topic that sirrahsim started:
We all have a deep love for animals too, or we would not be here on this forum. This thread was started by sirrahsim, and what you said had nothing to do with the topic at all. In other words, you hijacked her thread, and added that to her topic.Quote:
I have a deep love of animals and perfer to make this world a better place for them as I grow older. I find it sad that kids/babies are placed so much higher in society than animals. I find people to be selfish that can't open there hearts to let an animal into there home. I find them to be the most selfish.
Oi, can we take this to PM please? I kept my response to a PM. :P
I'd like to add ot the original topic that I would consider *fostering* a child later in life, and Brian has agreed that that is a possibility. If I got too attached to give up the child, well, so be it.
I mean, look at this little boy!! He's darling, but finding him a home is going to be really hard just because he's ten years old...
http://photolisting.adoption.com/9470.html <-info
http://photolisting.adoption.com/image/9470.jpg <-picture by itself
WolfChan, what was that? My darn computer won't let me go there!
Willie:)
It's a picture and description of a little boy named Corey who is available for adoption in California. He's ADORABLE, and...
"Corey is a handsome African American boy who is legally free for adoption. Corey is a friendly child who loves to be around others. He attends school and needs some assistance with staying focused on his homework. Corey says that he wants to be adopted and belong to a family."
He's ten years old. :(
Oh, he is the same age as a couple of my grandchildren. Fostering children would be very rewarding. There was four children here where I live, two boys and two girl, for some reason the separated the boys from the girls when they fostered them. They were so loving, always had hugs for everybody. The good thing when they finally were adopted, they all went to the same home. I was so very happy for them.
I have took in lots of children into my home, never regretted it either. I have took in teens too, didn't regret that either. Seems like my home has always been full.
Who know, maybe Corey will find a place to go. A forever home, I hope he will find that.
Willie:)
So do I. Tha'ts why I would consider fostering, there are SO MANY older kids in need. I had no idea how many until I searched for something else and came across this site. :(
I agree Pam....sort of:p Now all of us being animal owners - and given the topic....haven't we all likely witnessed similar interchange among MOTHER ANIMALS?? (we are humans but can still learn by watching animals) I see a good bit of PROTECTIVENESS being displayed here. Moms protecting children. Younger people reacting because they have received GOOD MOTHERING. I think even the love of animals has to be learned and more than likely, it was learned from someone who nurtured that person. We can't love another creature unless WE have been loved at some time.Quote:
Originally posted by Pam
To be honest, I didn't see any attacks here. I saw people defending their own viewpoints.
All this said, I believe some of what was seen as attacking, was actually protecting and defending. I did not read anything angry or mean.
By the way - even if many of you choose not to be mothers, and I am so sorry if people have made you feel you have to defend this choice - you DON'T! - but you did have a mother - or someone to raise you - and if you still have her, don't forget to remember her next Sunday!;)
(not a commercial! :rolleyes: )
I will stay away from all earlier comments. ;)
There is not a maternal bone in my body, not for a human child.
I myself never want to be a mother. I dont have the time or patience to raise a human child. It would be selfish of me to have children (would need a man, huh not going to happen) ;)
Balderdash!!! You are a WONDERFUL person. Amy is a very special woman and it obviously reflects on how great a mom you are. :)Quote:
Originally posted by moosmom
BTW Kimmy, I DO respect your feelings and opinions. It takes a very special kind of person to be a parent. I guess I just don't happen to be one of them,
All in all, this has been a very good thread. I really do respect each and everyone here for their decision to have or not to have children. I have a sister-in-law that never had children. She is a wonderful person.
Just because you don't want children, it doesn't make you any less of a person. Not all of us were meant to be parents of skin kids. Some have their wonderful pets to love. That can be very fullfilling. I love mine like they were my children, and in truth, they are. When one of these beautiful creatures die, and go on. We cry our hearts out, and suffer so much pain from losing our wonderful loving pets. So it seems you all have children, they just got more hair than the skinkids.;)
I just want you all to know, that I respect each and everyone of you for that.
Willie:)