Chewy, I need elp on the most important decision ever

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Originally posted by Sudilar


So she thinks he might have a physical problem? Could pain be causing his aggression?

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Nope. She thinsk the medicine will help him. Also not feeding him as much will help. And I was abotu to up his food. But his problems are his bad genes. She said alot of hound dogs come in with the same problems and so do Aussies. She has put alot of them to sleep and she feels Chewy is the same way. He just got the worst of the 2 breeds genes. But of course he got his daddy's pretty Aussie looks and his momma's body, LOL. It still cracks me up everytiem I look at him, he's sooo looooonng, LOL.

Ash

Let us know how it goes with your vet and the phone calls. I hope that you will able to do what is best for Chewy...I really hope you are able to help him with his aggression and keep him with you, and if not the decision is yours, and we know you loved him no matter what.

And no offense to Molly or Mike, but I honestly would not want to have my dog living with 20 other dogs either. It may work with some dogs, but I think it could overwhelm others, and they just wouldn't be happy.

I think it would be good to get several opinions! Maybe a good behaviorist who deals in aggression will be the answer. I hope...I've been thinking about Chewy all day. :(

I'm done. Obviously my offers mean nothing. I'm sorry that Chewy is the one that loses (and if that makes me a witch, so be it...it's my opinion). I've done all that I can. And wolfq, our dogs are well loved and well taken care of and I'm sorry if you wouldn't ALLOW any of your dogs to come to us....that's YOUR problem.

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Originally posted by wolf_Q
And no offense to Molly or Mike, but I honestly would not want to have my dog living with 20 other dogs either. It may work with some dogs, but I think it could overwhelm others, and they just wouldn't be happy.

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Dogs live in PACKS! They are not lone creatures.

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Originally posted by luckies4me

I do have to say though that I don't agree that you should get a dog "before" Chewy gets put down if he does.

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She's said in a previous post that she would definately not get it before Chewy was put to sleep. I think she's just looking around now but would not adopt until after Chewy was gone.

I am in agreement with Twisterdog on this pretty much. We all know how much Ash loves her baby. She knows the problems a lot more than we do. She's calling aggression specialists. I think that if someone specializing in aggression tells her she does need to put him to sleep, then that is what she needs to do. If she says he will be miserable with 20 other dogs, she's probably right. I know one of my own dogs would never ever go for that because of her traumatizing past. Ash and Amy are not saying they wouldn't want their dogs to live with mugsy in particular .. just anyone with a large number of dogs. I have no doubt in my mind your dogs are well loved and cared for Molly. I just know that my girl gets extremely uncomfortable around more than a couple dogs and/or bigger dogs. Thats all I'm saying but thats not even on topic I guess.

I think the people on this board who are involved in rescue one way or another understand a little better that not every one can be saved. If he is aggressive because of his genes, he probably cannot be fixed. I know that a VAST majority of behavioral problems CAN be fixed, but there is a handful that can't. Unfortunately it looks like Chewy fits into this category :( If indeed his aggression in not fixable, keeping him alive could be a very cruel thing to do. Living a life locked up and muzzled with no human or even dog interaction is worse than being put to sleep :( :( :( :( :(

Also, most shelters would probably put him to sleep before even moving him into the adoption area :(

Yes but Chewy attacks dogs and attacks to kill. You don't know Chewy, he attacks dogs and I'm afreid that He will attackone of there dogs and ripped there skin off there neck. Now I know there dogs are cratted while they are not home, (I have no problem with that cause Chewy is) so I know nothign would go on while they weren't home but when Chewy attacks not even beign smacked with a hairbrush as hard as you can can get him to let go of the dog. He kinda has springer rage, his eyes glaze over he has no idea what is going on and he attacks to kill.

Also I know dogs are pack animals but Chewy does not like other dogs, infact I think he hates them.

Molly, please, I'm sorry, I know you love your dogs and I know you are an angel. Honestly, when I grow up I hope I can be half as selfless as you are. I really do beleave all your dogs are the luckiest things on the earth.

Ash

Excuse me? Did I say your dogs were not well cared for??? Did I say that your dogs were not happy living together?? :confused:

I'm fully aware that dogs are pack animals. Dogs enjoy the company of other dogs. I, PERSONALLY, yes my own opinion, about MY OWN dog, would not want my dog living with 20 other dogs. Is that ok with with you?? Am I allowed to have an opinion???

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Originally posted by aly
If indeed his aggression in not fixable, keeping him alive could be a very cruel thing to do. Living a life locked up and muzzled with no human or even dog interaction is worse than being put to sleep :( :( :( :( :(

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This I definately agree with. I just want to make sure that it is the case here, that it can't be fixed.

What does a pack do when an aggressive dog is introduced?

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Originally posted by aly


She's said in a previous post that she would definately not get it before Chewy was put to sleep. I think she's just looking around now but would not adopt until after Chewy was gone.

I am in agreement with Twisterdog on this pretty much. We all know how much Ash loves her baby. She knows the problems a lot more than we do. She's calling aggression specialists. I think that if someone specializing in aggression tells her she does need to put him to sleep, then that is what she needs to do. If she says he will be miserable with 20 other dogs, she's probably right. I know one of my own dogs would never ever go for that because of her traumatizing past. Ash and Amy are not saying they wouldn't want their dogs to live with mugsy in particular .. just anyone with a large number of dogs. I have no doubt in my mind your dogs are well loved and cared for Molly. I just know that my girl gets extremely uncomfortable around more than a couple dogs and/or bigger dogs. Thats all I'm saying but thats not even on topic I guess.

I think the people on this board who are involved in rescue one way or another understand a little better that not every one can be saved. If he is aggressive because of his genes, he probably cannot be fixed. I know that a VAST majority of behavioral problems CAN be fixed, but there is a handful that can't. Unfortunately it looks like Chewy fits into this category :( If indeed his aggression in not fixable, keeping him alive could be a very cruel thing to do. Living a life locked up and muzzled with no human or even dog interaction is worse than being put to sleep :( :( :( :( :(

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Thanx, I'm glad you trust my judgemtn. I really need suport right now and I don't want to fight with anyone adn I don't wnat any one to be mad. I promise I'm not just a supid teen, I really know what I'm doing and I'm doing all I can! I'm calling behaviorist and I'm talking to my vet, what else do you want me to do???



Ash

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Originally posted by micki76

This I definately agree with. I just want to make sure that it is the case here, that it can't be fixed.

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Thanx, I'm so gald you love my Chewy. ::hugs::

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Originally posted by aly
If indeed his aggression in not fixable, keeping him alive could be a very cruel thing to do. Living a life locked up and muzzled with no human or even dog interaction is worse than being put to sleep
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This I definately agree with. I just want to make sure that it is the case here, that it can't be fixed.


I also agree with this.

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Originally posted by Aspen and Misty
He kinda has springer rage, his eyes glaze over he has no idea what is going on and he attacks to kill.

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I know what you're talking about and that is really scary. This is one of the many red flags I've read that you've written about the poor boy. That is what I hope people will understand - that its probably not normal behavior at all. Please let us know what the specialist says.


Everyone - I think we should all cool off a little. I think we all agree on this actually. Its such a hard decision for Ash and I'm sure she's suffering. Lets just wait and see what the specialist says.

**HUGS TO ALL**

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Originally posted by zippy-kat
What does a pack do when an aggressive dog is introduced?

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It takes a little time, but the pack figures out the places. Some dogs are happy being lower ranked and others are not. Much like people, some are natural leaders and some are not. Sometimes it can get violent, but this usually doesn't last for long. Usually one or two confrontations is all it takes. :)

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Originally posted by Aspen and Misty


Thanx, I'm so gald you love my Chewy. ::hugs::

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I do, Ash. And I'm sorry if we've made you feel bad. We're just all so very worried about all of this. Please give Chewy a HUGE hug from me and give yourself one, too ;) I know you love him, and I know this must be pure hell for you.

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Originally posted by micki76
It takes a little time, but the pack figures out the places. Some dogs are happy being lower ranked and others are not. Much like people, some are natural leaders and some are not. Sometimes it can get violent, but this usually doesn't last for long. Usually one or two confrontations is all it takes. :)

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Well, I must have a really messed up "pack" then. Nebo has been here since July. Reggie still hates him. It doesn't always work out that way.

I really don't see how my comment was this "personal attack" on Mugsy...but ok, if that's how you see it.

My dogs would not be happy with all those other dogs. Reggie doesn't like dogs. He hides just from Nebo, I can't imagine him with so many large dogs. Smokey is old and can't take much. Nebo likes dogs but gets overly excited and sometimes is a bit aggressive in his play. He doesn't know when to stop.

If Ash doesn't feel that Chewy would be happy with a bunch of other dogs, I don't see why we can't just listen to her...he's her dog, she knows him best.

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Originally posted by wolf_Q


Well, I must have a really messed up "pack" then. Nebo has been here since July. Reggie still hates him. It doesn't always work out that way.

I really don't see how my comment was this "personal attack" on Mugsy...but ok, if that's how you see it.

My dogs would not be happy with all those other dogs. Reggie doesn't like dogs. He hides just from Nebo, I can't imagine him with so many large dogs. Smokey is old and can't take much. Nebo likes dogs but gets overly excited and sometimes is a bit aggressive in his play. He doesn't know when to stop.

If Ash doesn't feel that Chewy would be happy with a bunch of other dogs, I don't see why we can't just listen to her...he's her dog, she knows him best.

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Sorry if I hurt your feelings, too:( Reggie may always hate him. Ever meet one of those epole you instantly hate?
I never thought you were "attacking" Mugsy. :confused: I think I'll get off of here before too many people get mad.

Sorry micki76, my post really wasn't directed at you....I just quoted what you said....it just doesn't always work out that way. Maybe it's my fault, but Reggie just doesn't like Nebo, and I don't think he ever will. Not all dogs can get along with other dogs...

Sorry Ash, I wasn't trying to start a fight in your thread. I honestly was not trying to make anyone mad with my post, I really was just trying to point out that if you think Chewy wouldn't be happy with so many other dogs...then he probably wouldn't. We all know our own dogs best.

Sorry everyone. :( And Mugsy, I do believe you love your dogs and take good care of them. I could never handle it. Just having the full responsibility of one really annoying and strong-willed dog is hard enough, I don't know how you do it. :)

I have a feeling this is going to end up like when everyone attacked Angel for putting her dog in the pound., Someones feelings are going to end up hurt, someone going to leave and then there will be another hole in pet talk. Lets just focus on Chewy and the good for Chewy. I myself think you should take Molly and Mike's offer. They are good people, and so are you. Maybe they can help. Maybe they have something more to offer than you have. Give it a try. and who knows, maybe Chewy will get over all of this.

Thanx everyone. Chewy is sooooooooo cute. He's fast asleep on the blanket, love my chewy baby, LOL he got allll dirty, I gotta give him a bath now :D gotta love him.

i also wanted to say Micki- You guys (I don't think you have yet, hee hee) are making me feel like a really awful person, but thats ok, I understand its out of love and I really know you guys love Chewy, I mean who couldn't love him???

Ash

ps: We deced if the behaviorist says he needs to be put to sleep we are probly going to be doing it late this week (Thrusday or Friday) I can't stand to look at him and I've been crying for almost 2 days staright. Also, there is a 11/2 year old Female Doberman (with floppy ears) who we are going to look at this saturday or sunday, I dont' know if I will be ready for a dog by then but I think I will. I really love my Chewy and I'm not putting him down early cause of the Dobie this weekend, if I had it my way he would be a perfect dog and I would have him till the day *I* died.

This is way different than the Angel situation. Complete opposites.

Thats all I will say on that or my blood will begin boiling and I'll probably get kicked off here at the things I have to say about THAT!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hey now. This has nothign to do with ANgel. So lets drop it please. I would really like to keep this thread as focased as possible.

Ash

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Originally posted by Aspen and Misty
Hey now. This has nothign to do with ANgel. So lets drop it please. I would really like to keep this thread as focased as possible.

Ash

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Never said it did, and it's exaclty what i said. This is about Chewy.

I'm sure everything will work out the way it should. I think you should just follow your heart Ash, I shouldn't have said anything I don't think as I DON'T know what your really going through and I don't think a lot of us have. I think whatever you do its for Chewy's best; you'll make the right choice.

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Originally posted by slleipnir
I'm sure everything will work out the way it should. I think you should just follow your heart Ash, I shouldn't have said anything I don't think as I DON'T know what your really going through and I don't think a lot of us have. I think whatever you do its for Chewy's best; you'll make the right choice.

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Thank you ::hugs::. I'm dont' have a prefrence, although my heart is screaming RUN AWAY WITH HIM. LOl :rolleyes: but my whole family is scared of him, of course I'm not, he's just to cute and I'm his mommy :D . I want to keep him, honestly I do.

Ash

What gets me is that if she says he bites to kill how come the other dog isn't dead yet? Has he ever hurt the dog where the other dog needed sitches? If not he was most likely just wanting his own space?


Itjust doesn't make sense to me. And the vet sonds like a loon! Fed him less? What the heck is that?

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Originally posted by luckies4me
What gets me is that if she says he bites to kill how come the other dog isn't dead yet? Has he ever hurt the dog where the other dog needed sitches? If not he was most likely just wanting his own space?


Itjust doesn't make sense to me. And the vet sonds like a loon! Fed him less? What the heck is that?

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i dunno, that was the trainer, aint she crazy???? Teddy as most of you know is a sheltie and luckily Chewy never got through that fur but has thrown him around the room pretty bad. Teddy has had bit wounds on his head from Chewy, although, none required stiches.

Ash

Ash

I know this is a hard time for you, and I'm deeply sorry to hear about the Chewy situation. I know you've tired everything possible and still are trying to do everything possible to help the little guy. Just know that I'll stand behind you with whatever you decide to do with him.

Thank you. Everyone's suport mean so much to me. I am so happy I have all of you behind me. Its only 9:40 and I'm already extremly tierd. Its been an emtionally draining day and I can't wait to go to school to get my mind off of everything.

Ash

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Originally posted by Aspen and Misty


i dunno, that was the trainer, aint she crazy???? Teddy as most of you know is a sheltie and luckily Chewy never got through that fur but has thrown him around the room pretty bad. Teddy has had bit wounds on his head from Chewy, although, none required stiches.

Ash

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Hmm she sounds weird to me, but that's just my opinion. Ouch poor Chewy! :eek: Well I hope you have a better day tomorrow and hopefully school will take your mind off of this matter a little.

Blha me to. I don't thin my days will get better till things settle down with Chewy.

Ash

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It takes a little time, but the pack figures out the places. Some dogs are happy being lower ranked and others are not. Much like people, some are natural leaders and some are not. Sometimes it can get violent, but this usually doesn't last for long. Usually one or two confrontations is all it takes.

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Usually ... but not always. Any of us that have done rescue and had multiple dogs in changing pack dynamics knows that once in a while you come across a dog that simply will not adapt to life in a pack. Just as there are people who cannot deal with society. I believe there are antisocial, reclusive, sociopathic dogs just as there are people. I have one living in my boarding kennel right now, as a matter of fact, because two years of intensive training and behavior modification has made not one bit of difference in his nasty attitude. My sister has two Siberians that hate each other, and have from the moment they laid eyes on each other six years ago. She has to keep them separated at all times, or they will kill each other. I've taken in rescue dogs that I simply couldn't keep ... they hated all the other dogs and caused nothing but problems, despite extensive efforts. It's not always possible for a dog to live in a pack situation.

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And no offense to Molly or Mike, but I honestly would not want to have my dog living with 20 other dogs either. It may work with some dogs, but I think it could overwhelm others, and they just wouldn't be happy ... If Ash doesn't feel that Chewy would be happy with a bunch of other dogs, I don't see why we can't just listen to her...he's her dog, she knows him best.

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I have many dogs who could live with twenty other dogs, and think it was a dream come true. But I have a couple dogs that couldn't handle it ... they can barely handle living with ten other small dogs. And I've had to send rescue dogs to another foster home because they absolutely couldn't deal with eleven other dogs. There are no hard and fast rules. I agree with your comment, not all dogs could handle this situation. I didn't take your comment to be offensive, just realistic. We don't know Chewy, we don't live with him ... Ash does.

this is really sad, but it is a very hard decision i dont like putting one down but if the aggression is getting worse. that may be the thing to do. as placing him in a new home i really dont think that would help, there could be a medical problem my gsd that i lost to cancer became aggressive went after me several times in one weekend so on that monday off to the vet we go. her cancer had spread to her brain. she was only 4 1/2 yrs old. my heart goes out to you i've been there and its not where i would want to be agin. take care and lots of hugs and prayers.

What about Mugsy's offer, Ashley? Have you reconsidered that? They have dealt with aggresive dogs successfully before, and have said you would be liable or anything ... they'd be going into the situation eyes open, and would love to give hima chance.

I'm not trying to pressure you, kiddo, and rest assured we know that you love Chewy and you know him best. Give him a belly rub, and yourself a hug from me.

This whole thread is still making me so sad http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/bawling.gif

Please let me know what happens with any of the calls you make tomorrow, Ash. I am going to call my vet tomorrow too, and another vet whose children I used to watch in day care, and see what they say (my vet will most likely not help, she always says she has to see the dog, but maybe in this case she'll offer a little advice).
I have to work from 10am until 2pm, then look at a house at 2:15, I will try to make these calls either from work or before I go, and pm you or give you my phone number if I get any news.

Stay strong!!

Thanx everyone.

Yes Karen, I have thought abotu it some more, infact every morning since Friday I have woke up and gone through this thread like 10 times to make sure there are no suggestion on here that I feel comfortable with and want to do. It always comes out the same. I don't want him living with 20 other dogs, no offense to Mike or Molly, I love them and everythign they do and I can not get over the fact they have taken in 20 dogs, it still shocks me someone has that many dogs in 1 house. I do hope they didn't take any offense to anythign I have said and I have pmed them and everything and we have talked about it in pm's.

Ash

:D I will be calling the behaviorist this after noon. We have decedthat if there is something we can do for Chewy we will nto keep him but find hi ma home with some one who canwork with him. We have deced this formany resons. One, he needs someone who is home alot more and who is willing to spend all day watching him closly and my whole family is afried of him and no one wants to be around him any more in fear he will atack them to. It all depends on what the behaviroist says and I will be bakc ot post around 4 (its only 10:01 and I'm in school). Well I have to go, I guess I'm suposed to be paying attention in this class.

Ash

Ash, do you still have all of the numbers I gave you?
I talked to the owner of the Pet Store I told you about, and she rescues dogs. Anyway, she said John Jones is THE BEST in the area, and he would do a full evaluation, and specializes with aggressiveness. She said that she had a shepherd once who bit everyone, and turned him over to him, and he turned out to be a great dog.
I can get the number again, or I can even call for you, if you want--just let me know!!

First, I want to say, I am very saddened by the situation Chewy is in.

Now, having said that, didn't we go through this whole thing with Amy and Misty and Chewy several months ago, OR, am I confusing her with another member???? How can you post that you are putting down a dog, then say, "yes, we ARE doing it", then, SIKE we aren't, and I am going to call someone else...."


I am wondering if this isn't somewhat made up for excitement value? ?????