Max

Do you think it would help if you warmed the fluid up before giving it to Max? I've seen it make a difference in some cases. I gather that room temperature fluid flowing into the cat's system can be uncomfortable because it is much cooler than the bodily temperature.

Put the fluid bag in a sink basin or bowl full of warm water, enough to cover it, for a few minutes. Then, when the bag feels warm (but not hot), hang it up again and administer the fluid to the cat.

Sending prayers for you and Max as you both work so hard to make this time comfortable for him.

Hugs and purrs,
Pat and cats

P.S., I also lit a candle: http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/...ng&cid=8749714

I have not read this thread, and I am so sorry about your Max!!! I am not a pro, but in the past, I have had 7 cats with kidney disease. I found this site: www.felinecrf.org to be very helpful. Helen, the woman who runs the site, is very knowledgeable.If you have a question, she does answer(she did when I had a problem). Per her suggestion, I put the needles in the freezer before inserting them into my cat. It worked several times. Like phesina said, it really helps to warm up the fluids. I use 18gx1" needles. Once the needle is in, I open the control all the way, and let the fluid go in. Unlike the needle being in a vein, there is no chance that an infiltration will occur. It goes much faster. I can hydrate a real fussy cat in about three minutes---tops. I have tried the smaller needles, but, like you found, it took FOREVER for the 100cc's to go in...and when the cat thinks it is time to move on, it is really hard to keep them still so all the fluid can go in. I hope this may help....and I will light a candle for your boy....Take Care....also, I have usually Mozart on the CD's, that seems to help the cat relax...That photo has Boo getting her sub q fluids, supervised by Nicholas(both RB Angels)....Sandra

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Originally Posted by kb2yjx

Take Care....also, I have usually Mozart on the CD's, that seems to help the cat relax...That photo has Boo getting her sub q fluids, supervised by Nicholas(both RB Angels)....Sandra

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Interesting about the Mozart. With my cats, it has always been Bach that soothed them.

Actually, Grace, I forgot that the cats seem to enjoy Bach, as well....also Samuel Barber's Adaggio for Strings....

I had to give Oliver sub-q fluids for about six months and I found that warming the fluids helped ALOT. I had an extender set that gave me more IV line to work with and I just put the IV line in a warm water bath so it was warmed as it went through the line.

The other thing I did was to give Oliver some "treats" while running the fluids. The treats could be dry food (I don't feed dry food normally so it is a treat) or some canned wet food. This would keep him still long enough for the fluids to be administered. (BTW I also use an 18 gauge needle)

OMG, what a great idea to warm up the solution and the line. My neighbour did mention last week that the solution could be cool going in, but I never thought about warming it up. I'll definitely try that if I have him home tonight. I am also using an 18 gauge needle but I have the smaller 20 gauge ones too.

As for feeding him during treatment, well he always stands up to eat so I'm not sure how practical that will be but hey, I'll give anything a go right now. I'll try the treats first and if that doesn't work, I know he'll go for the Fancy Feast.

He didn't eat as much last night as he has been but he did have a very small poop. Right now he is sleeping peacefully on the dining room chair, oblivious to the fact that an hour from now he'll be with Dr. Singh.

I also have to say, and put in a plug for my vet. Dr. Singh is the absolute best ever. He is caring, compassionate, patient with me and let's me pay him off in installments. He always returns my phone calls and answers all my questions in terms that I understand. I've been with him since 1997 and what a blessing it is to have someone who gives me the straight goods and not pussyfoot (excuse the pun :D) around.

Well, I'm off to get ready.

Based on my experience with Oliver eating during the fluids, it was never a problem and it made it sooooooooooo much easier because he would then stand in on stop

I'm sure warming the fluids, both the bag and line, will make a big difference in how Max accepts the fluids. It will take a few sessions before he realizes it isn't uncomfortable any more, of course, but then he will be "normally" antsy about it. Watching your cat's behavior/reaction and trying to assess what they are telling you can be a very difficult translation job. I thought Diego was hiding from me because he was already in some pain when it was time for his meds, which are given through an oesophageal tube because the pain is in his mouth, but it finally dawned on me that the pain meds (given always in warm water) might be hard on his stomach. Now I give about 20cc of well warm watered down baby food first and he's started letting me scoop him up more easily and will relax and purr while the procedure is done. Sometimes you feel so dumb that you didn't figure things out sooner.

I hope you can get Max into a plateau time, that can last for many, many months, where he is coping with treatment and has a fair quality of life.

They kept my baby boy overnight. I pick him up at 10am tomorrow morning. He is extremely dehydrated in spite of my efforts. :(

On my way to work now.

Oh, baby Max - please get better for your Mom.

Well, I hope the overnight stay in the hospital will get him back on the right track. I probably should have done that with Taz in the beginning too.
I know it will be a LONG night without your baby, but hang in there.

HUGS!!

We keep all our paws and fingers crossed for Max.

Slick, I'm sorry to hear Max was so dehydrated, but tonights dose at the vet will hopefully change that! I know you're on pins to hear news, but try to relax and get a good nights sleep, that's the best you can do for him - and he'll be home with you tomorrow, hopefully feeling a lot better. :)

My thoughts are with you, and Fister and I have all paws and fingers crossed for Max. :love:


(((hugs)))

I warm the fluids by filling a thermos with hot tap water and just draping the line through the warm water. The line is so thin the fluid comes out comfortably warm to the touch. I happened to have a quart thermos on hand but the size shouldn't matter.


I use the 20 G needles. It takes about 6 minutes for 150 cc.


I also confine the cat in a "Klaw Kontrol" bag. It works better for restraining the cat than the "burrito wrap" in a towel. Even the squirmiest cats can't get out easily. It also seems to help calm the cat down. "Calm" is a relative term.

Are you suspending the bag higher than the cat? I put a hook up on the wall and suspend the bag from there. Higher = faster flow.


Good luck with Max.

We have everythig crossed here for our Max tonight. :love: Please get better baby.

If the fluid flow was very slow, you may have gotten the needle into muscle rather than in the sub-q space. If so, just shut off the flow, and remove and re-insert the needle in a slightly different spot.

I spoke with our vet about when the fluids slows down. I told her I use the same technique that I did with IV's, wiggle the needle, it can be positional. I have never withdrawn the needle, put on a new needle, and reinserted it. The cat would not stand for that!!! Sometimes, if you just pull the needle back a teeny tiny bit, it helps getting the fluids flowing again...I have also fed a cat while giving it sub q. Spunky was IMPOSSIBLE, so I would cut up some cheese and mix it into baby food. While he was gobbling away, I could insert the needle, and get him hydrated. As you can see in the photo of Boo and Nicholas, despite Boo sitting up, the fluid still went in!!!

Okay, I forgot the photo!!! SORRY.....

Also, PLEASE do not reinsert the SAME needle into the cat again....EVER!!! Once the needle is inserted and then reinserted, it causes PAIN because after the needle is used once the tip is NO LONGER SHARP.

KB2yjx: Thank you so much for your weath of knowledge. Gosh I love this site. The emergency vet (not my regular one) told me I could use the same needle 3 times before changing it, but I will heed your advice from now on. I'll stop by the vet's tonight on my way home to buy a bunch more needles. Question for you - what good does it do to put the needles in the freezer before insertion? Does it dull the pain somehow? Also, many thanks for the website link. I will check it out this weekend. That photo is soooo cute!

Lizzie: Many thanks for your input and sharing your experience.:)

Mary: I can't thank you enough for your advice and support.:)

Nepeta:

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I warm the fluids by filling a thermos with hot tap water and just draping the line through the warm water. The line is so thin the fluid comes out comfortably warm to the touch. I happened to have a quart thermos on hand but the size shouldn't matter.

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I'm trying to visualize this. If I see this right the line comes down from the bag and kind of gets coiled around in the thermos of hot water then the needle end comes out of the thermos into kitty? :confused: Many thanks for the link to the Klaw Kontrol. If Max becomes a problem child, I definitely invest in one.

Phesina: That candle gives me LES. :( Many thanks for your kind words.

In my computer/freezer/litterbox room I have a hook up high on the closet door where the bag hangs. I have a soft blankie on top of the freezer and that's where I do what Max would call the dasterdly deed. I just have to figure out how I'm going to warm up the line while it's flowing. I'm sure that I'm poking him in the right spot because I can see the water collecting under his skin. He jolts/squirms when the needle first goes in, then calms down a bit.

I have a 3 day weekend so will be able to spend some extra time with Max.

Thank you everyone else for your love and prayers. It means more to me than you will ever know and I'm riddled with guilt that I have not been able to be there for all of you. :( I'm so sorry and will endeavour do better.

I'm going to try and get some pictures of him this weekend to post.

Your description of the line coming down from the bag, coiling around in the thermos of hot water, with the needle end coming out of the thermos and into the cat is exactly right.

Here's a rather well-written article about one man's method of administering
Sub-Q Fluids to his Kat.

The first part lists dozens of helpful sites that can be consulted for additional help
and suggestions; and some Bulletin Board sites.

The second part goes into a very detailed How-To instruction set.

http://weirdstuffwemake.com/weird/st.../catjuice.html

Slick, I'm sorry to hear that Max has to stay at the vet.:( Hopefully he'll feel much better tomorrow and from now on you won't have any more problems/issues with giving him his sub-q fluids. I'll be keeping both of you in my thoughts and prayers. Please take care. (((HUGS)))

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kb2yjx

Also, PLEASE do not reinsert the SAME needle into the cat again .... EVER!!!

Once the needle is inserted and then reinserted,
it causes PAIN because after the needle is used once the tip is NO LONGER SHARP.

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And >>>

The needle is NO Longer "sterile" once it touches the fur and/or "dirty" skin.

RE-using a needle three times :eek: is TWO Times too many! ;)

Cinder and Smoke!!! Thank you for pointing out the STERILITY factor in reusing the SAME needle!!! SLICK!!! I sent you a pm.....I hope Max is OK...I lit a candle for you both....

Dear friend, thinking of you and Max this morning. I will call you over the weekend.

xxoo Gini

I'm a little shocked about the vet saying you can use the needle three times. :eek: My vet gave me a bag of needles to last for one bag and when I went to get another bag they'd give me more needles. They even specifically told me with his epogen shot that the needle can only do two sticks - once into the vial and once into his skin.

I hope you made it through the night without Max at home. And I am also hoping to hear some good news when you pick him up this morning. I will be busy today, but will try to check in on this thread as often as possible.

Max is home and he's pacing the floors sniffing everything making sure nothing is out of place. He eyes do look more sparkly this morning so I'm sure I made the right decision. He talked up a storm on the say home.

Dr. Singh said and I quote "he ate his regular dry food like there is no tomorrow" and he had this big grin on his face. This is a good thing.:)

I told him that I would need a box of needles because I would only use one per treatment and he said sure. As I have stated before, I love Dr. Singh but I hate the girl at the front desk. She gave me a handful of needles, I paid and came home. Upon inspection of the bill ($300:eek:) I discovered that she charged me for 30 needles and I only walked out with 9. So it's another trip to the vet as soon as I post this.

I asked Dr. Singh about Max's drooling during treatment and he said that it was due to stress because he even drooled while they were trying to shave his leg for the IV. Dr. Singh also sent me home with some liquid meds for his tummy - it's called Famotidine and I'm to give him .15 ml every 12 hours. He says that Max's tummy had some inflammation due to the toxins building up in his system and this would calm it down. Before I give Max any of this I'm going to google and research this med.

KB: Many thanks for your lovely PM's I will respond when I get back from the vet.

Phred: I know you care :love: and yes, I understand about the sterility part.

Gini: Any time today is best for me.:love::love:

Taz: I'll call you tomorrow night.:love:

Having been satisfied that apartment is same as when he left it, Max has now taken his perch on the dining room chair and I expect he'll be snoozing shortly.

I'm off to the vet.

I'm so glad to hear that Max is doing a bit better today. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he settles down a bit and doesn't fight you. :love:

Slick, I'm so glad to hear that Max is now home and doing well.:) The Famotidine is Pepcid. Did your vet give you pills, chews, or the liquid kind? When my Ziggy was sick I had the liquid form and while I would give her sub-q fluids I would inject the Famotidine into the port of the sub-q line. This way you don't have to prick her again. I hope that things will go smoothly from now on. Good luck.:)

So glad Sir Max is home and feeling perkier!!! Extra gentle (((HUGS))) for you both!!! :love::love:

I can't believe she cheated on the needles!
But I'm glad Sir Max is better :D

SO glad to hear that Max is perkier. :)

That vet receptionist...! Could you live on her salary? Take her job! ;)

So good to read that Max is doing better. My local vet receptionist told me that I could reuse the needles as long as I wiped them w/alcohol before insertion but she said to do it a maximum of one time (for a total of using the same needle twice) because the needle would get dull. I didn't want to hurt my Puddy, so after one or two times of that, I started using a fresh new needle each time and I do the same w/Pidge. My local vet has only one person watching the desk at all times, so I go there only for routine things. It's tough when you love the vet but can't stand the help. My other vet who is much farther away is great and so are his staff. It makes quite a difference in our outlook when we know that everyone is on our side. Please know that we pray w/out ceasing here, Slick. :love:

So glad to read how much better Max is doing back home now!!!

You rock, Max!

WOW!!! What great news about Max!!! Hope you got all your money back from the vet office....and YOU get a good night sleep!!!! HUGS, prayers, and candles.....

Yeah Max! I am so glad you are better. I was really worried about you the last couple of days! Thank your Meowmie for taking such good care of you. :love: Hugs and kisses and be nice for your meds, okay?

I am glad that Max is doing so much better after his stay with the vet.

You should only use a needle ONCE. More than once it will develop little burrs and loose it's sharpness causing pain and discomfort when they are injected under the skin.

BTW, you know that you can buy all the supplies online including the fluids and necessary equipment. I like my vet but they are mucho$$$$, so it was cheaper to order everyone from the Internet.

Actually, I was going to suggest what the above post has just done, and that is buying CRF supplies via the internet. On the CRF site that I posted, was where I found the place I use. Brico, here in Edison, NJ. They cannot be any nicer, and our vet cannot bet the prices.....Maybe it would be worth a try instead of buying needles and other supplies from your vet....Hope Max is having a really good Sunday....you, too.....

Yes, I always buy my cats medicine online. Waaay cheaper!