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ok thanks for answering my question, I think it is becoming worse in every country for sure and of course wealth exists in third world countries,I just think in NZ and the United States it is on a lesser scale, i have no facts to back myself up, but it is just how i think i guess.
There is a vast difference between being poor in America and being poor in India or Africia.
If you are poor in America you might only have one car, one TV and you shop at Walmart and go to a free clinic.
Being poor in Africia means you don't have shoes, have never seen a tooth brush, you have never been full, had an orange or apple, clean water to drink and spend your short and miserable life without seeing a Dr or having any meds at all. It's not having a bowl to put rice in.
There are different types of poor for sure. Here in America you have free education, free birth control, and many other opinions that millions in the world never have or dream off. As a woman you can wear the cloths you want, marry whom you want and practice the reglion you want, in Iran and Iraq being poor means being in fearof your life from gunfire and being afraid you will die of hunger. We are blessed and spoiled, we are one of the fattest and least educated people in the modern world. High crime, high teenage pregency rate, it goes on and on, we are poor in brains it seems often.Quote:
Originally Posted by momoffuzzyfaces
I have to disagree. Being poor in America can mean being homeless, staying in a shelter when you can get a bed, worrying how you will feed your children, choosing between paying the rent and feeding your family, often means having no car, never mind a TV. And with no car, you have no access or ability to get to that "free clinic" ... it can mean working two jobs and still falling further into debt, it can mean leaving your children with someone you cannot trust so you can work to get money to feed them ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Marigold2
If you are homeless, you don't get that "free education" as you have no address from which to register your kids for school.
That doesn't mean being poor in India or Africa is any less horrific, or tragic. I was speaking with the woman who runs the ecumenical food pantry that is housed in our church basement, as she said not only is the need increasing dramatically, but that there are still people who don't believe that there are hungry people in their town.
Karen, I totally agree with you. Marigold, there are many homeless people with no car, no tv, and no money to shop at walmart.
There are homeless in the US, there are poor people in the US.....
But we don't have entire cities made up of cardboard shacks.
Still I would rather be homeless in America then India or Africia.
There is more of a chance to get ahead in this country.
Being poor in India means life expectency is 35 instead of 70 or 80 here.
Most people in America have seen a Dr, have shoes, a toothbrush, a bowl to put food in, a chance at clean water.
People in Africia and India bath in the same water they drink.
I doubt anyone would choose being poor in those countries as oppossed to being poor in the USA.
I saw this, first hand in Somalia. People living in such squalor that I literally weeped. Me, big tough Army guy, 19 years old... Young, dumb and full of... I WEEPED for those people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
Yet those same people, who we were there to help shot at us. Fired RPGs at us... Why? Because their hate filled Cleric told them we are "the great satan." (read: Rich, successful people are the enemy.)
Poverty is akin to slavery. More often than not, the means to get people truly out of poverty exists. But shamefully, people in positions of power do things to keep them in poverty, to maintain power over them... (and keep the poor voting for them) Think about that as our President-Elect creates more welfare programs. Think about that as he takes money from the successful and gives it to the "poor". All that does is enable the poor to STAY poor and enslaved.
Welfare = SLAVERY
When I see people in India and Africia, the pooriest of the poor I always see tons of children. I think to myself, if I cannot feed myself, if clean water is something I don't have why why why would I bred and bring 7,10,12 more children into this world. I see this in every country where there are poor living in horrible conditions. They all have tons of kids. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: How can a woman do that? How can a man bring a child into this world knowing it will starve to death. If they had less children they might have a chance at improvement, but if they keep breeding they kill themselves.
Because they are not educated and have no access to birth control.
CM, particularly in Africa, disease and high birthrate are more a product of lack of education than availability of resources.
Vaccinations and BC devices are readily available, but the distrust of western medicine and lack of education prevent the effective distribution and use of both.
Add to that warlords who are more interested in control than the welfare of the population and you wind up with a mess.
Yes I agree with all of your points but still..............
As a woman, as a mother I cannot image wanting to bring a child into this world to watch it starve to death. It is beyond my understanding. Perhaps I expect to much from these people and their leaders.
But without access to birth control or education, you wouldn't, as a woman, have a choice about whether or not to bring a child into this world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marigold2
I wish we, as human beings, could manage to do more to help people, so that things like preventable disease, malnutrition, and poverty no longer existed.
Feel as you like about Bill Gates, but at least his foundation - The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation - is putting money into some very worthwhile international causes. It is sad that the need exists, but good that they are trying.
Years ago my parents would take us into Mexico to camp on the beach in Rosarito.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Human
You would hit the border in San Ysidro and boom, There was literally a shanty town made up of cardboard house. It was built in a little valley/river bed that would flood out during the rainy season washing all the cardboard out to the ocean where the river emptied.
The river was also the sewer and a place for people to get water. All the time we drove by there I could not imagine that just over the border is a place where being 'poor' was having one TV in the house. Sharing a room with two other brothers, only having one car, getting one Christmas present- A good one, but one only. I remember getting a pillow and a candy cane filled with M&Ms one year. The local American Legion post gave us a box of food so that Christmas wasn't a total loss.
Being 'poor' in America is nothing like it is being poor anywhere else.
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Used garage doors.,
The huge one piece garage doors people replace on their homes to give them curb appeal?:rolleyes:
On Interstate 5 we'd drive to work and see these huge trucks with 30-40 garage doors loaded on the back.
I was thinking aobut loud an asked "what are they doing carting them down the freeway?" HOUSES, my brother answered. Houses?
Instead of tossed them out as scrap, people in Tijuana and points south would pay to use them as walls to the their shanties/homes. Go figure-people are b!tching about taking out low cost paper on their homes and other people put together homes out of mismatched garage doors.
I love America.
Yeah I screwwed that up pretty bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen
Adult stem cell research dosent have the sticky morale issues that embryotic stem cell research has.
As a young person visiting the USA, i was totally gobsmacked when i crossed the border into Mexico, i don't know what it is like now, but you went from skyscrapers,to shanty towns, i have never forgotten it,seen nothing like it before, i was only 18 at the time, and it really had an impact on me.
I have to agree with a lot that has been said, i also think that poverty in Africa,India etc is way different to poverty in America or New Zealand, especially here as you are eligible for welfare if you need it, i don't know how the American system works, but in my opinion there is no need for homeless people in my country, it is their choice. I may get flamed for that comment, but i am saying this about my own country,as i know how the system works here.
Marigold, my teenage daughter often comments on why they keep having children in these countries,as has been said it is because of a lack of education and lack of access to birth control, it is a sad fact indeed.
People in Africa don't have the same access to food banks, or shelters as we do,there just is not enough food to go around, and a Tv, car, what on earth are those things,they do not even know what they are.
Poverty is poverty and is bad no matter where it is, and i feel for all who live lives that are indeed miserable, i feel for the homeless in the USA,but i have to be true to myself, i feel more for those in Africa.
Ok, I'll give you the point that the homeless in other countries are different than here. But I know of NO ONE in this country who would chose to be homeless!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by carole
Only families with children can get welfare here. While waiting to see if my disability would go through, I was on public assistance. A grand total of $125 a month. I defy you to live on that!!! Luckily for me, I still had a bit of my profit sharing money left to help pay the bills until my disability came through.
Then I paid ever cent of the public assistance money back so someone else could be helped.
Believe me, you don't know how terrifiying it is to not know where your next meal will come from or how you will keep a roof over your head until you've been through it. Sleeping in the cold in America is still as miserable as sleeping in the cold any where else!
Poor people in America aren't the ones who can only afford one car. I can't even afford that any more. I think they are lucky if they can still afford one.
Please don't mis-understand me, i have a lot of empathy for your situation, i really do, i have been pretty poor myself, not to that extent, but i have experienced hardship to a point, but i still consider myself extremely fortunate, even back then when things were tough.
Yes i do think the welfare state is different here than the states, you still don't get a lot to live on, but way more than that.
I am not saying it is not tough for homeless people, i just think it is tougher in other countries that is all,I am really not coming down on you personally, please don't see it that way, i have great empathy for you and your situation,I always would want to help those who are less well off than myself.
You are right with a lot you say,can i just end this by saying I feel for all the people in the world who are having it tough, you included.:love:
I just wanted to add in NZ there is no need to be homeless in my opinion, because there is adequate welfare to get you by until you can either find a job or place to live, the homeless here are mostly people who do not want to work, do not fit into society for one reason or another , or who choose not to,some have drug or alcohol problems,are gang affiliated or young people who just do not want to conform to rules set by their parents, anyhow that is my take on it, in my country.
That's ok, Carole, I see your point. ;)
Take it from me though, no matter what country you live in, save as much money as you can while you are young because when your health starts to decline and the jobs dry up, you'll need it. The older you get, the harder it is to get work.
The unemployment numbers are increasing really fast here. I really worry about middle age people (or older) who will need to find work. The jobs just aren't here right now. :(
"But I know of NO ONE in this country who would chose to be homeless!!!"
I actually do :rolleyes: I've met people that argue that it's a "lifestyle choice" :eek: They have no interest in working or having any responsiblity. They like to be "free" to move about wherever they please. They chose that life and get very defensive if they percieve it's being threatened. Go figure:rolleyes:
Claudia
Yes same here, we even had this man on the telly who choose to be homeless, he was very likeable, but he relied on soup kitchens for meals, and he really just did not want the normal lifestyle,however he had been doing this for years and now decided he would change,amazing.
Yes unemployment is getting bad here too, we have had my husband laid off twice in different jobs, and it was no picnic in the park that's for sure, i am always scared it might happen again, especially the way things are right now,one can never feel secure.
Again to those people who are genuinely homeless through no fault of their own, you have my utmost empathy and understanding.
Humans have known for over 7000 years how and where babies come from. Millions of people know the answer to this question without ever seeing a book or having a test.
If people in Mexico and Africia can't afford a child they should keep their pants on and their hands busy trying to make their life better.
I just cannot understand how anyone could bring a child into this world knowing it will starve to death, that is murder and the adults need to put their urges aside and find a way to make their lives better.
I have no pity for these people.
I have to disagree with you on this Marigold. There are many places on this earth where women do not have the power to refuse sex with their husbands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marigold2
There is also the issue of biology. Organism are driven to reproduce. It is why they exist. The imperative to reproduce is as strong as that for food and water.
I agree with the idea that people should only have children they and the planet can afford. But then reality intrudes.
ES, I certaintly understand the needs of the birds and bees. But I would find a way to put those aside for the life of my children or child.
On the other hand expecting teenagers to "just say no" is being naive.
Yes, you probably would find a different way. But you are not living the life people do in third world countries. And, as you understand that expecting teeangers to just say "no" is naive you surely understand that many of "those people" are merely teenagers as well. Life expectancy being what it is and all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marigold2
I think to have no compassion or pity because they do not know how to control the size of their families (other than total abstinence) is a bit...short-sighted?
I have never understood why missionaries and other religious/aid workers do not hand out birth control as the first thing. But that is for another thread.
LOL I am short sighted, been wearing glasses for years. :cool::cool:
I am one of those people that when told it can't be done or you shouldn't do that, well that is a challage and I love challages, builds charactor, strength and it's fun as all get out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
They do - many hand out condoms. However, some don't believe in birth control (mostly a sect of Catholics, I believe).
Wow I can't even respond to this in a kind manner so I won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marigold2
I recall, during my time in Somalia... Remember, this was 1993/1994
We would find large amounts of unsed comdoms, still in wrappers. They were given to the "skinnies" by UN sponsored aid organizations. Why were they not used? The "Great Satan" wanted them to use them. Their Clerics told them Allah would disown them if they did....
Never forget that what WE (the west) see as reasonable rarely applies to the average 3rd world nation...
This is exactly what I meant by education, not knowing that having sex causes babies, rather knowing whom to trust and the knowledge to base those decisions, not being told if you do these things you will go to hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckstop31
Just for the record...there are not "sects" of Catholics. And the Catholic church is opposed to all artificial birth control.Quote:
Originally Posted by JenBKR
Actually, there are. Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, to name a few. Some are very strict and traditional, some more lenient. I believe that Lutherans are allowed birth contol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by caseysmom
Marigold where as i respect your view, i think you are the one being naive here,I agree 100 per cent they should not keep on having children they cannot afford, seems such a simple answer and solution, but it is not as simple as that,more complicated than we can imagine.
Being Lutheran I know that we are allowed to use birth control and do.
I guess I just expect too much from people. If a religon forbids birth control and your children are dying it's time to use your God given brain and say "What up with that" would a true, kind, just, forgiving, understanding God want this? I guess if you are brainwashed into thinking you will go to hell there isn't much help for you. Religon can often do more harm then good when not mixed with good ole fashioned common sense.
Sometimes the answer is simple. Be good, be kind, be smart. Don't follow everything a religon says, otherwise you follow a falsh belief.
Thank You.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckstop31
"We" have this effing elitist attitude about ourselves that people from around the planet have to laugh at.
IF you are forced to turn tricks to make a few bucks a month to make sure your kids get fed, you put your health and well being at risk, along with the chance that you will get knocked up because YOUR government/leaders/warlords don't give a flying shiat about you. Mix in some good ole tyme religion and you get what happens in the 'country of Africa' - extreme poverty.
It's way too easy to make a statement about a situation that you know nothing about. Some of us have walked among people and their world and it makes us appreciate all the stupidly simple things we all take for granted.
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The question is not why do these people keep having babies-It more like, "What will they do to keep them and themselves alive?"
There is nothing more powerful, that I have seen, than the love of a mother or a woman who has her back against the wall. I know that most of them will do anything for their families.
It's a shame that "we" have such a crappy, egotisical view of everyone else.
I love my country, but have to wonder about the people in it.
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Sorry kids!
You have to remember that s-e-x isn't the recreational sport that US "civilized" people think it is in 'the country of Africa'. More often than not, it's a way of life that keeps you in the game of life.
How sucky does that sound?
I totally agree with you especially thisQuote:
Originally Posted by RICHARD
It's a shame that "we" have such a crappy, egotisical view of everyone else.
The arrogance in marigold's post astounds me.
I couldnt' agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by caseysmom
Unbelievable.
It's kind of funny because she talks about how these third world countries who have no source of education should just know better but here in the US and in Canada we HAVE all that education yet many people STILL get pregnant because they just don't use it or "don't have access" to it.
but we expect 3rd world countries who don't get the education to be better about it than we are.
No. Lutherans are not a sect of the Catholic faith. Martin Luther broke off from the Catholic faith hundred of years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by JenBKR
Christianity once meant Catholic. No longer. Not for hundreds of years.
There are Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox Catholics, Russian Orthodox Catholics, Lutherans, Baptist, Episcopalians, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses and dozens and dozens of other religions under the overarching "Christians."
But they are not "sects" of The Catholic faith.
Yes, I can think of a recent example of this!:D:D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by sparks19
And Im sure it brought you great joy.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary