Need I say more? :rolleyes: :mad:
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Need I say more? :rolleyes: :mad:
You CAN train her for 15/20 minutes each day. It will take her a little longer to grasp it but since Boxers are smart breeds I'm sure she would have no problem.
I dont even know wether or not to offer help. Your obviously not going to give her to rescue. So whats better for Daisy , a home where she is kept outside with little attention. Or the home where she would possibly be taken better care of but turned into a breeding machine?
I don't really have a problem with people who see their dogs or other pets as "just a dog" or "just a cat" or whatever. I don't have a problem with anyone who takes care of their dog's needs but has them as an outside dog. And when I say "dog's needs", I meen food, shelter, water, medical care, and the ability to be with their pack. A dog doesn't need to be with their pack 24/7, though. Just like kids don't need to be surrounded by family 24/7. I can't begin to know how much time you and your family spend with Daisy, Tim. I hope it's enough time.
With that being said, I am "one of those people" who treats my animals better than most. My dog is a dog, but he is a member of my family. He is not a child, but he is most assuredly a family member. But, I understand and am ok with people who do not feel that way. As long as an animal has their needs met, I'm all right with people not letting them in the house.
Now. What bothers me is that you would get a dog like a boxer and think that it wouldn't be a playful, energetic hyper dog. People shop all over the darn place for the right couch and research the best deals on airfare to save money, but they will just choose a dog not knowing the first thing about the breed, just because "it's cute", or "I had one as a kid", or, in your case, "people around here are afraid of boxers". There absolutely has to be more thought put into bringing a living creature into your home, especially one who could possibly be in your care for upwards of twenty years. If a dog running through your house and knocking your children over was a problem, maybe an already trained adult boxer would have been a better option. I know it's obviously not something you can do anything about with Daisy. But, maybe consider it if you do decide to get another dog.
Tim, would your wife be able to help with training when you are away from home? That would speed things up considerably, to have it reinforced, what is her daily schedule like?
Daisy is still a puppy, so constant reinforcement of good behavior is the best. If you do 15 minutes a day of basics - leash training first - as in NOT pulling when she's on a leash, , then come, sit, down, and "off" - whever she jumps up, step back and make her keep her four paws on the ground - all good skills for her to know - sit, down, and off being particularly important for an exhuberant breed like a Boxer.
If you work on these things, even just 15 minutes a day, and then your wife do it as well, Daisy should pick up on things quickly. That said, she is still a puppy, and will be exhuberant for years to come, being a Boxer. If you need to rehome her, our prayers will follow with her.
Tim-
This is a site that has links with a lot of useful information, how to do some basic training, and dealing with various behavioral issues.
http://www.dogpatch.org/obed/obpage2.cfm
Of course there is a wealth of information online. You can simply go to google.com and type in "dog training" and come up with all kinds of information. I'd suggest if she doesn't already know it to train sit first. Sit is a good command to get the dog quiet and under control and focused on you. You must use rewards, such as treats or a favorite toy or at the very least praise and attention, to make her want to work and learn. Take her out on a leash, have her sit, let her learn she gets attention when sitting and being good. But also she needs to be able to run and expend energy. If she can run off some energy before training sessions she will be a lot easier to work with. If you work with her every single day, consistently, even for just 15 to 20 minutes, she most definitely will improve as well as be a happier dog. Also if you spay her she may settle more and be easier to handle as well, plus it reduces her risk of certain cancers and health issues.
If she goes into heat she may very well attract aggressive wandering males who could be of danger to your family. Please consider it for the safety of all.
Here is a very basic guide on teaching sit. http://www.ehow.com/how_65_train-dog-sit.html
Good luck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sasvermont
I'm quoting this because I feel it gets to the most important point to be dealt with now. If you are still reading, Tim, I implore you to take this to heart. There are good people here. I've made some mistakes in the past which haunt me to this day. Let the people here be a barometer for what to do now. Over and over this suggestion has been made. I'm not going to quibble over the choices you've made in the past, it's too late for that to make any difference. What you do here on out can make a huge difference for Daisy. Please give this idea the consideration it deserves.
I agree, Rachael, but I truly think his mind was made up as he was writing the first entry :(
Tim, may I suggest you look into getting training for Daisy? Do you have a PetSmart or some kind of kennel where y'all live? I think it would be great if you make it a family training course. Bring the wife & kids. Kids need to learn how to behave around/with dogs. Luckily, in NH there is training facility that has a class that is just for kids & dogs - no parents. Perhaps you can find something like that?
Fenway is going to be 4 this year and I'm still training him. He knows the basics, sit, down, off, down. But I'm still reinforcing these things with him each & every day. He's not a rocket scientist. But I love him dearly. Sometimes I'll say "sit" and he looks at me like I'm rock.
I really hope you can get proper training for Daisy. And may I suggest you get her fixed? I think she may be more calmer if you get her fixed. But maybe more people on this board who have dogs that aren't fixed will know about their temperment...fixed or not fixed. I always understood a fixed dog was more calmer. But I could be wrong.
As far as running the kids over, Daisy is still just a puppy. She's going to rambunctious (spelling??). Boxers have a ton of energy. I've yet to hear of a kid getting seriously hurt or dying from a dog running them over. Kids bounce.
Good luck.
This is really not making sense to me.....If you apparantly have 15 minutes a day to work with her, why have you waited until now to do it? Even if you work with her for 15 minutes a day, that isn't nearly enough. She is out there 24/7, 15 minutes of your time trying to teach her to stop jumping or to sit every day isn't going to do any good. Unless you are able to dedicate over an hour to exercising her and training her EVERY DAY, then you will not have a dog that you would be willing to allow around your children.
To be honest, I have never seen a well behaved dog that is kept only outside that has good social skills and good manners. And you are neglecting your dog by keeping her outside, I don't care how you try to justify it, you still are. Dogs are social creatures, you don't understand just how much you are keeping from her by isolating her outside. She will always lack the ability to read your body language and your moods and emotions to a T, she will always lack that special bond with people that would make her easier to manage, easier to train and more pleasant to be around. When your dog is inside, there are so many opportunities to train her and work with her. I can have a dog inside my house and it ends up totally obedience trained in a week and I don't even have to set aside any amount of time or give official lessons.....It just happens because the opportunites are presented to me throughout the day and I take advantage of them.
Are you totally helpless to where you can't go to petsmart and sign up for training lessons and buy a few books while your there? Seriously, I started training dogs when I was 13, never attended a lesson, never even picked up a book and I managed just fine.
I don't know what you are coming here for other than to complain about how terrible and "misbehaved" daisy is when it's completely your fault! Quit relying on other people to help you and quit waiting for problems to just fix themselves. The only way you are going to be able to resolve this is if you make it happen and learn to help yourself. You started a thread in the behavior section about how to stop daisy from pulling and you have been given alot of great advice, have you done anything with it yet? And there's this thing called a search, where you can find another topic by a person who has a jumping dog and those same methods that are posted will help you too.
15-20 is fine for daily training. It is best to make training sessions short so that dogs don't get bored. However, if that is all you spend with her daily that is NOT enough.
Daisy needs some rules. She needs pack rules. She needs to understand that your kids are humans (right now I'm sure she sees them as screaming, running toys!) The NILIF, Nothing In Life Is Free, method of training should help quite a bit. It's very easy (for us) and anyone can train their animal using this. Daisy needs to know her basics - sit, down, lay down, stay, come, etc. Google it.
I never said anything about outside dogs not being able to be trained. HOWEVER, it is very difficult to teach a dog not to jump on toddlers, not to chase them, etc. if they are stuck outside their whole lives and never around the kids.
What do you need to know about training? I said in my very first post that people here (well, I can speak for myself) would be willing to help you train her and answer questions you may have. However, when suggestion training you spoke as if it was absolutely impossible to train.
It's not. It's incredibly easy to train a dog especially if you get to know your dog.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE contact Daisy's breeder. AS I said, I'm not sure what type of breeder she came from but you can be in a legal mess if you decide to sell her and it was in the contract for her to be returned.
I have contacted who I believe to be Daisy's breeder, and hopefully she can step in and help out.
Thank you, i was hoping there was a REAL breeder behind that pup!Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsoul
First Thank You all for your advice, But i dont need anyone contacting anyone im grown and can do that myself. I will give the training a try, and ill let you know how it goes.
Tim, I don't know if this question has been asked yet, but is your brother in law's boxer neutered?
Thank you for being willing to try the training, Tim.
I'll be the first to admit that Maggy is far from trained. She knows a few tricks, but I hardly call that training. The main difference is that when she gets out of hand, I simply pick her up and move her. I don't see you doing that with a boxer, though.
While she's inside, maybe you can keep her on a leash or one of those no jump harnesses so she can learn not to jump on your kids? Even when you're not actually training her. It sounds like she could use some house manners.
Hopefully that'll help. Just remember, she's still a puppy. She'll probably be this way for at least another year. Having said that, you're also at a great time to train her.
Good luck. Although you may not be on the same page as other PTers i.e., "just a dog," I really do feel you care for Daisy. She just needs a lot of guidance. I hope you can and are able to give it to her.
Hi Tim,
I've typed a few replies, but have deleted them all because I think the other members of PT have touched on most of the points I had written. Anyhow, I really hope that providing Daisy with the mental and physical stimulation of training will help with some of her issues. Dogs are pack animals and need to be with their pack and learn the pack rules as set forth by you and others in her pack. Boxers are intelligent and active dogs they need a lot of physical and mental stimulation and sometimes walks are not enough to satisfy those needs. You can mix training with playing such as playing fetch and teaching her to drop the ball when she brings it back.
If you'd like I think I have an extra copy of Puppies for Dummies that I can mail to you. Here's a description of the book:
A book you will love and every puppy will need! From housetraining to proper puppy socialization, it's all here in this fun and friendly guide to the toughest and most delightful era in your dog's life: puppyhood. With a focus on behavior and relationship, Sarah Hodgson helps your puppy grow up to be a healthy, playful, well-mannered dog.
Discover how to:
choose the perfect puppy for you
raise a well-mannered, happy puppy
housetrain your puppy quickly and effectively
provide proper puppy care and nutrition
keep peace between kids and puppies
I might have some other training media that I can scrounge up as well. That said, it might be worth it to really look hard for a trainer to assist you in person. Maybe a neighbor or local resident has experience training their own dogs and can offer some one on one advice and work with Daisy while you’re there. I can read and understand just about any manual or diagram, but until I do it hands on for the first time I will never really comprehend it beyond the basics, so for me a hands on trainer was very valuable.
I sort of get where you are coming from - the children have to come first but poor Daisy. She only wants to be part of the pack....I do hope that you think very, very hard if you ever consider getting another dog. They are hard work, take a lot of time and commitment but I guess you are finding that out now..........
I hope you find her a home where she can thrive
I do have to agree with many of the posts here... but I've been thinking. Rather than criticizing Tim we should be thanking him for realizing that there is a problem and caring enough to be concerned. Many people in my old neighborhood would have just given up on the dog and that is that. Those dogs usually have less than bad endings.
Tim, it is my opinion that if you truly love this dog you will find it a new home that will give it plenty of exercise. Do what is best for the dog. Don't be afraid to ask an adoption fee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timlewis
Well, since my question never got answered (if his brother in law's boxer is neutered)
I'll just say this:
I pray for Daisy's life, I pray she does not end up being a puppy machine for some money hungry selfish person.
She needs to be spayed before you give her to anyone.
PLEASE don't add to the number of unwatned/unplanned pet that are put to sleep every year because there is not enough room for them all.
Please Tim.... please do the right and responsible thing and have her spayed.
I have 11 outside dogs and I know when they are sick or hurt. I run my hands over them every day. You can tell if their sick by the change of their personality. I don't consider having your dog outside "treating it terribly" Shouldn't we give our animals a choice, just as people have choices? I gave my dogs a choice, stay in or stay out. Most chose out. Dogs love to be outside. They love to be around people, yes, but some people are outside people. People think they'll die from getting to hot or cold. I have NEVER had a dog die from heat (they shed in the summer) or from cold (their hair grows thicker in the winter) but I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. If you take care of your dogs, give them love, attention, shelter then they can thrive outside, sometimes they do better than inside dogs. But this is just my opinion. Before anyone goes judging about whether someone keeps their dogs in or out they should look at their lifestyle, where they live, ect. first.Quote:
Originally Posted by coco-bean
Boxers are never meant to be outside dogs. Their hair coat does not grow thicker in the winter, nor thinner in the summer. It stays the same all year round, very sparse on the underbelly and legs, etc. Anywhere you read about boxers says they should not be kept outside. Many dogs can be kept outside physically (not saying I prefer that for myself, I don't) but some dogs cannot tolerate the extremes of heat and/or cold. They also cannot live outside in the hot summer because brachycephalic dogs overheat much more easily.
You are correct in saying that many dogs can life outside, as long as they are provided for, even if it's not ideal, but some breeds just cannot do so as well as others and those considerations should be taken into account when buying any breed. "What is it's intended purpose, can it fulfill that purpose and the way in which you plan to keep it, and is that the right breed of dog". The dog was bought to look mean, without consdieration of the fact that that particular breed is not meant to be housed outside in anything but moderate conditions year round, be it either heat or cold, and they also do not do well mentally being kept more isolated. They are far "needier" dogs than many other breeds, and that is why he's having problems.
I fully understand different people not seeing their animals as more than the animals they are, I do not feel that way, but they are entitled to it. The main reason I got upset myself was the way it was talked about, with it sounding like he didn't much care if she was bred or not, and didn't seem to realize the lack of socialization time was causing a lot of the problems. The dog has too much pent up energy, and she's getting blamed for being an active dog who hasn't been trained. It's not her fault.
Tim, I wish you luck in training her, and that things are able to settle down for you all, but if you really want to send her to your BIL, please don't let her be a breeder, it's really so hard on them. I have a dog that was used as a breeder, she came to me after, and she has had many health problems and illnesses because of it.
Tim,
This must be a tough decision, I have gone through a situation where I had to make a tough decision like this too. GL training Daisy, I hope you find what it is you can do to keep her. If not GL finding her a great home.
Jods
I´m not saying anything about the subject, but I´m sticking to the helping line here.......
I find out easier teaching a dog to sit and then go on from there.....
first have her in her leash and collar and it may take long it may be quicker, then hold a treat she loooves in front of her, lt her smell it or lick it and then place it above her head and a little behing so she has to look up and back and that makes her sit....... also say "sit" WHILE she´s sitting not any other time so she relates "sit" whith what she´s doing...... you can also try incorporating a hand signal......
for example I hold the treat (which once she learns you can omit) between my index finger and my thumb and hold the rest fingers up as in an "ok" signal.... say "sit" and once performed you give the treat.....
try this a few times during the 10-15 minutes and then try again later that day if possible, if not again the next day...... just a few times until she realizes that sitting means a yummy treat and she´ll do it
you can PM me if needed