Vegan Animal Food

Ah yes, I was posting that from a vegiterian's P.O.V. :o
There are many kinds of recepies for vegans. I am looking at some sites now, but they do not contain a URL (AOL members-only channel sites), therefore I cannot post them. :(
I have found some websites who make nice cookies and baked goods without using dairy products. Although they are not the essential needs of humans, it is just an example of how people can obtain the nutrients without dairy.
I have heard that people now have a vegan pizza, which uses a special kind of cheese that was not taken from an animal...yet I forgot what it was called.
Of course I will know more about it when I become older and am ready to make the commitment. :)

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Originally posted by Soledad
Dogs are omnivores! Why is this up for debate? It's a fact. :rolleyes:

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No! Dogs are not omnivores! They are Carnivores(genus Canis) I just looked it up. Never were dogs defined as an omnivore, eating both animal and vegetable food, until man captured
and tamed them to use for his pleasure and benefit. Good companions, these domestic
genus Canus , with all the different shapes and sizes into which we have mutated them.
We treat them with the utmost of dignity and respect (save the few brutes that mistreat
them), and most of us think of them as family members. One problem, as our family
member, we have taken them captive and deprived them of the natural food source their
genetic cousins still thrive on in the wild--RAW MEAT.

Here is a link I found: http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/speaker5.html

If you read it there is not a thing says a dog is a omnivore:rolleyes:

As far as it being debated they are not ominvore's get your facts straight.

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Originally posted by YellowLabLover
:confused: They are carnivores. I have never seen a dog, wolf, jackal, fox, dingo, or coyote chomping on a carrot and eating a salad with french dressing.

I personally would never feed an animal a veegan diet, that is, if the animal was a carnivore.

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My dog is 1/2 coyote, and her favorite treat is carrots! I will never argue with the fact that she is OMNIvorous. She was very ill a few years ago, and I cooked her a special diet with miscellaneous vegetables, rice, and chicken breast. (From free-range birds!) Her coat looked phenomenal.....I wish I still had the time to do that all the time....

My dog loves carrots too!! :D Yes, dogs do eat plants, but you can't deny the fact that those teeth were built mainly for eating meat.

Dogs came from wolves...wolves do eat plant type food on occasion, but their MAIN source of food is definitely MEAT.

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Originally posted by Soledad
Dogs are omnivores! Why is this up for debate? It's a fact. :rolleyes:

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I am not making a debate, I am stating a fact. Why is that such a problem? I thought you liked debating??

Tina, EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

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Originally posted by veegan
dogs are omnivores, like humans.

I think its cruel to supprt the meat industry, and to feed my pets the crap thats found in pet foods.

"What’s Really in Meat-Based Pet Food:

Carcasses of euthanized cats & dogs (some with flea collars and containing sodium pentobarbital used for euthasia).
Unwanted insecticides and pharmaceuticals from diseased livestock (complete with plastic ID tags).
Rotting supermarket rejects including plastic and styrofoam packaging.
Animal parts deemed “unfit for human consumption” (heads, legs, tongues, intestines, esophagi, beaks, feathers, bones, blood, lungs, ligaments, etc.)
Diseased and cancerous body parts from the 4 D’s: dead, dying, diseased, & disabled factory-farmed animals"

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When you are going to quote something like this, please link to where you got it, or state your source.

what the heck is vegan??

Veegan - question for you :)

In another thread in cat general you said that you were going to switch your cat to a vegan diet. In this thread, you said that cats are carnivores:

"cats are "true carnovires" because they cannot survive without certain things found only in meat but dogs & humans can."

So I'm just wondering how you will make this work? Or maybe I misread you. I'm not trying to be offensive, I genuinely am curious :)

PCB- Veegans also do not wear make-up, own any leather (obviously), eat any jello, etc.

I also read somewhere that some veegans don't use prescription medication because it was tested on animals.

If I wanted to, I would definatly feed my pets a vegan diet! I don't want to, but I don't think it's wrong. As long as they are getting the nutrients they need from the food they eat, then it doesn't bother me any.

Dogs are omnivores. They enjoy eating vegetables and fruit, and most dog food companies add these, as well as preservatives and corn flour, etc. to their dog food. So if it's not all meat in dog food, they are omnivores. The same goes for wolves. Although they are classified as "carnivores," because they eat berries, they could be classified as "omnivores." The only reason they are not, is because wolves don't generally eat berries unless there isn't enough meat to satisfy them. :)

my my, lots of posts since my last visit!

yes, dogs mainly eat meat, but they eat meat & plant. they are omnivores. I dont know what else to say, its just a fact.

"My dog loves carrots too!! Yes, dogs do eat plants, but you can't deny the fact that those teeth were built mainly for eating meat.

Dogs came from wolves...wolves do eat plant type food on occasion, but their MAIN source of food is definitely MEAT."

yeah thats true, I never said they dont eat meat. omnivore means plant & meat. The dictionary defines omnivore as:

"Main Entry: om·niv·o·rous
Pronunciation: äm-'niv-r&s, -'ni-v&-
Function: adjective
1 : feeding on both animal and vegetable substances"

I really dont know what else to say. I will AGAIN quote encarta:

"The molars at the very back of the mouth are adapted for feeding on items such as insects, fruit, and leafy vegetation, as well as meat. Some canids include a high proportion of fruits, seeds, and other vegetable matter in their diets."

It does not say only domesticaed dogs eat plant & meat because humans made them that way. Anyway..

To Karen, sorry, I posted where I got that from a few times, I think in the original thread from cat general though. That was taken from www.vegancats.com. I posted another, better, link to info about that earlier in this thread. http://www.petfoodshop.com/evolution_3.htm



And now, popcornbird.. Be prepared for a long reply..
"Vegans don't eat eggs, and practically everything contains eggs. Vegetarians on the other hand do. I know nuts contain protein, but how many nuts can you eat? And how can you go without milk or yogurt or cheese? I know you CAN go without it, its just that I would never do it. Soymilk can replace milk but it can't replace the yogurt and cheese and ICE CREAM!"

First of all, you would be amazed how many things DONT contain eggs. In fact, most baked goods (bread, cookies) do not contain eggs. The thing I usually have a problem with is whey which is a milk ingredient. Almost all bread products are vegan.

And there are LOTS!!! of things that contain protein. Lots of vegetables do, (potatoes are a good source just to name ONE of the many), nuts as you said are a very good source, pasta, bread products (esp whole wheat breads), BEANS (all kinds, soy included, and tofu- tofu is soy), etc.

Soy is the main source of protein for most vegans. And sure it doesnt taste the same as meat, or whatever its being used to imitate, but thats because it isnt, its soy, it tastes like soy. lol It took me a little while to get used to the taste of soy, but now (13 months later) I love it. There are tons of differnet kinds of soy meats, and meats made from other things like tempeh. I never got used to soy milk, so I use rice milk instead. Almond milk is also avaliable. And yes, they do make soy yogurt (which I personally find revolting, but I know people who love it), so cheese (also which Ive never found a good vegan substitute for, but I dont miss cheese anymore anyway, even though it was hard to give up at first), and they also make soy chream cheese, & sour cream (both good but not the same of course), and soy ice cream! Soy Delicious is THE BEST brand of soy ice cream, I swear to you I cant tell the difference. I dunno if its cause Im used to soy, havent had ice cream in a while or what, but Im telling you its AMAZING. They sell egg replacers for baking, soy margarine, soy mayo (nasoya brand is AMAZINGLY good), etc etc. And its not like theres only one brand, there are tons of brands of all these products so if you dont like one you can choose another.

Now to address your 1st comment..
"I know vegetarians eat eggs, milk, cheese, etc. Why don't vegans eat these products? I just can't understand. The animal is not killed for these things, and it does not hurt the animal in anyway."

Well Im glad you asked, and this is a very common misconception among most people. (In fact before I was vegan I had the same thought). First of all, yes the animals are killed and hurt. The meat & dairy industries only care about profit, the animals are not treated well, or medicated when ill, they pump them full of chemicals and antibiotics and hormones (which in turn humans consume). Dairy cows are artificially inseminated because otherwise they dont lactate! The female babies are taken and used as dairy cows, and the males as veal. They take the babies away right when they are born. Veal calves are treated horrendusly, kept tied up in dark tiny stalls they cant move around in and can barely lay down. They are not fed nutricious diets, and often suffer from anemia and diarreah, etc. (In fact theres 2 kinds of veal meat, one kind is fed an even worse diet to make their flesh more tender and then they sell it for a higher price). And then, once the dairy cows stop producing at the highest speed possible, they are killed for meat, usually at about 4-5 years of age, where if allowed to live a normal, natural life, they can live 20-25 years. Eggs are even worse. The chickens are kept in tiny cages, 4-5 birds per cage, they cant even move around in. They suffer from disease, and injury without treatment. Their beaks are chopped off when they are chicks because they are so closely confined they peck at and injure eachother. They too do not life long at all. Also, it takes resources to raise livestock. Water, grain, space. And it takes a LOT more of these resources to raise livestock than it does plants. Raising livestock creates a strain on the human population, if there were less animals being raised, there would be more grain, etc to feed to starving people of the world. The waste from these farms pollutes our air and water. Creates runoff, errosion, hurts our streams and rivers, rainforests are being cut down to rasie livestock, animals over graze, ruining grasslands, etc. etc.

Another reason is, a lot of vegans believe that animals have rights, and arent here for human use, and therefore feel that its unethical to use them or their milk or eggs as products, food, etc. A lot of people also believe its unnatural to drink the milk of another species. Humans are the only species to drink milk after we stop needing our mothers milk.

And lastly:

"If you can't eat eggs, milk, cheese, yogurt, or any types of meat, what's left to eat? Even many cakes, breads, and other foods cannot be eaten that way because eggs and milk are very often used in baking? Do you only eat veggies, soy stuff, and grains? How do you get your nutrition like that? With supplement pills? Again, this question is asked out of curiosity and not meant as an offense, so I hope no one minds. Personally I would NEVER go vegan. Its just way to inconvenient and you lose the variety of foods you would eat otherwise, even if you were vegetarian."

There are tons of things to eat. TONS of recipies, tons of foods!! MANY cultures in the world rarely eat meat, theres a lot of awesome enthic foods/recipies, and I know most vegans, myself included, say after going vegan they actually eat MORE variety, and try more new foods than they ever did when they ate animal products because theres so many other foods out there that people normally wouldnt try. Its pretty easy to get all the nutrition you need in a vegan diet. The vast majority of the population gets way too much protein than they need. But yeah for people like me who dont cook, I do take a multivitamin (well I took that before I was veg) and I also take a calcium pill each day. There is protien powder you can buy if you have problems getting adequet protein (and no they arent all gross tasting, Ive seen some that are flavourless, and you can also mix it into things like cake batter, etc). Its easy to make meals like tacos, chilli, spaghetti, stir fry, and things liek cookies and cake, with all the immitation foods avaliable, and really they dont taste much different, and they are still good.

If youre curious I recommend soy delicious ice cream, and gardenburger makes an AWESOME riblet. Boca burgers are good too, and I also like lite life brand meats (such as smart dogs). Most stores sell this stuff too, QFC, Fred Meyer, Krogers, Trader Joes too, all have natural food sections, and I know some stores (fred meyer) sell gardenburger and boca products in the frozen meat sections. Theres also all kinds of vegan chocolates avaliable at stores and TONS of vegan products online. Once you make the lifestyle change and figure out what products, brands, and recipies you like its easy. That was my experience anyway! :D

Im sure you will wonder where to get proof of all this, so, here are some links:
http://www.factoryfarming.com
http://veganaction.org/
http://www.veganoutreach.org
http://www3.mistral.co.uk/traub/faqvegan.html
http://www.emagazine.com/january-feb...0102feat1.html
http://www.afa-online.org/vegan.html
http://www.vegansociety.com/html/
http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020715/story.html

and finally, yes I know its PETA, but they have video proof:
http://www.goveg.com -main veg page
http://www.goveg.com/l-intro.html -intro to veganism
http://www.goveg.com/r-mym.html -meet your meet real player videos

"what the heck is vegan??"

A vegan is a person who does not consume, use, wear, etc any animal products. They do not eat meat, eggs, dairy, geletin (animal bones) or honey. They do not wear leather, fur, down, silk, etc. And they do not use products (like makeup, household cleaners, soap, toothpaste, etc) that contain animal products or products that have been tested on animals. There is no real exact definition of veganism, and each person decides for themself to what degree they will practice it. There is no way to be 100% pure vegan, but the goal of a vegan is to cause the least amount of suffering they can.

And yes some vegans may choose not to use prescription drugs because I believe they are required by law at this time to be tested on animals before use by humans (I could be wrong about that!), but like I said, it is impossible to be 100% vegan, and some things cannot be avoided, and each vegan must decide to what degree they practice, and where they draw the line.

"In another thread in cat general you said that you were going to switch your cat to a vegan diet. In this thread, you said that cats are carnivores:

"cats are "true carnovires" because they cannot survive without certain things found only in meat but dogs & humans can."

So I'm just wondering how you will make this work? Or maybe I misread you. I'm not trying to be offensive, I genuinely am curious "

yes, thats true, but as it says on vegancats.com:
"Although Taurine naturally occurs only in animal tissue, synthetic Taurine has been produced on a large scale since about 1930. In fact, many meat-based pet foods utilize synthetic Taurine to meet nutritional requirements as well (most naturally-occurring Taurine is washed away during the rendering process)!"

"Unlike humans and dogs, cats cannot synthesize vitamin A from the carotene in plants. Deficiency affects hearing and vision. Cats need a preformed source of arachidonic acid which most mammals synthesize from linoleic acid found in most plants - especially seeds. Deficiency can result in reproductive failure. Cats need also a preformed source of taurine, an amino acid which they would usually obtain from flesh foods. Deficiency causes degenerative heart disease and degeneration of the retina (blindness). Vitamin A, taurine and arachidonic acid are all added to the Vegecat and Vegekit supplements. These nutrients are obtained from a non-animal source. For those of you who would say that it is more natural to obtain these nutrients in the form of meat (usually out of a tin) then please note that pet food manufacturers themselves often use a non-animal form of taurine to supplement their products because it is cheaper."
this was found here: http://www.vegansociety.com/html/info/info15.html

"You don't even eat honey?!?!?!?!?!

OMG! Do you know how good honey is for us?!?!

OMG. I think that's very extreme.

Honey is a blessing from God. It has the cure for so many diseases and is very good for human health."

whoa now. lol! ;) a blessing from god! hehe I dont see how it is extreme! :eek: I probably only ate honey like a few times a year before I was vegan. How is being compassionate toward other creatures extreme? And actually, me personally, am not so strict about avoiding honey (Ive eaten bread with honey in it). I just try to avoid eating it straight, or in large amounts. Not only because it just goes along with the basic vegan beliefs, but also because as with any product, they are being mass produced and Im sure theres abuse involved. Honey is one of the issues Im less familliar with, but I did find this article the other day about why bees arent vegan! (I havent read it yet though! haha!) But heres the link!! :D: http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

And Im interesting in hearing how honey is benifitial?? Ive never heard anything about it.

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Originally posted by veegan

And Im interesting in hearing how honey is benifitial?? Ive never heard anything about it.

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I am genuinely curious also. I detest the taste, smell, texture, etc etc... of honey and try pretty hard to avoid it. :rolleyes:

Although, I do love soy and try to keep a good amount of it in my diet. :D

Just responding to a comment made earlier about having a pet cow. My parents have to pet cows a mom and it's calf. They are really cool when I go home to visit I always go and see how the cows are doing and pet them. My parents own a small ranch and some of the animals are for consumption and they eat the eggs from our chickens, but the cows are nothing more than pets. I'm not really sure why they decided they wanted cows as pets but they sure are a nice addition.