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No, but that doesn't stop a stray cat from running into her yard. What would she do then? My point was, whether or not the dog is offleash or in it's own backyard, it is silly to say you wouldn't physically try to remove your dog in any way possible if it was killing something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Goodnow
Apples and Oranges, this animal was not in it's territory, it was off lead in a public area.Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsoul
Yes, I believe so. Most of the bull terrier and pit-bull type dogs I've come across are owned by families in unstable relationships and on all sorts of income-related bonuses, due to a marriage breakdown here and a job loss there. Now I'm not one to be stereotypical but that is true to what I have generally seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by gwen
It's also now widely accepted that the pit bull is the official 'chav' dog, and illegal dog fighting for profit for drugs is practiced far more often than first anticipated, or so I've been told.
I'm sure that this perception isn't just confined to the UK but across most of the developed world, and I expect the prejudice has sprung as much from the people that own them as the dogs themselves!
Prey drive and human aggression are NOT the same thing. Just because a dog would attack a swan does not in any way mean the dog would attack a human.
I have siberian huskies. They would love to eat any small critter/bird/etc. they could get to, but I do not let them off leash and give them the chance. They are also often around small children and are perfectly fine with them.
The dog definitely should not have been off leash. No, all staffies are not vicious, most of the attacks you hear about involve dogs trained for fighting, or simply left intact and neglected, they need proper socialization and training. I do believe they have a higher tendency (as well as several other breeds) to be dog aggressive and they require an experienced owner.
Well said and exactly the same point I keep going back to on this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf_Q
I agree -- it was put into a setting where bad things were more likely to happen, and I do not condone letting an animal offleash in a high-traffic area or an area where it may be a danger to animals -- but I still believe that the owner physically trying to remove the dog's grasp on the was still justified, as there are few other options short of tranquilizing or shooting the dog right there to make it let go of the animal. Since the dog was playing fetch we can only assume it had already been taught a release command -- however a dog in prey drive mode may be tuned off to outside distractions. I'm not at all saying the owner was a good owner and should be awarded Staffordshire bull terrier owner of the year award -- maybe my opinions are irrelevant in this case -- What I am saying is that if my dog was attacking something, I would pick up it's back legs, and if that didn't work, I'd be beating it with whatever object I could find. And this could happen in my own back yard, as it did with my cat and the neighbor's dog. Different, more innocent setting, but the same consequences, and I would hate to be looked badly upon for attacking my dog rather than standing there yelling. Basically what everyone is saying is that my mom was a horrible person for beating my neighbor's dog with a 2X4 while it had my cat in it's mouth, shaking her and killing her.Quote:
Apples and Oranges, this animal was not in it's territory, it was off lead in a public area.
I completely agree, but there is definatly a fine line between the two. Prey drive is often stimulated by a moving/running creature. When a chase is instilled, prey drive can have the same affect in a completely different manner than human aggression with the same result. Candy was a wonderful dog, and she had alot of prey drive. It was a good thing for us because we use toys as reinforcement, and she had a strong drive to chase them (moving/running item). However, the reason she came to me and did not stay with Marla, is that running children would also set her off, and she would chase the children and grab on to them when they ran. It could have been trained away, but it does show the correlation between prey drive and actually hurting a human.The dog does not understand that it is a human. It sees something, chases it, and sometimes grabs on. It is not the dog's fault, the dog should have been trained, but it shows a strong connection between the two.Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf_Q
Prey drive is the #1 thing that trainers look for in a protection dog. A schutzhund dog without prey drive is not a schutzhund dog at all. And yes, these dogs are trained to attack humans. Just because it is called prey drive, and not human drive, does not mean it is restricted to only one thing. Many schutzhund dogs are wonderful with the family cats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsoul
Jordan,
Let me clarify my point, I understand that your cat was attacked, I understand that your neighbors dog did this. I understand your mothers desire to protect her childs pet. I do not agree with beating the animal.
In the scenario that Gwen brought up, it was NOT the owner that was beating the animal, as a matter of fact, the owner stood by, while a passerby" beat the dog into submission".
In that instance, if the animal had been taught commands to drop, or to release and was not heeding them as you stated is a possibility, would it not stand to reason that you would place its' lead back on? To gain physical control in order to gain mental control?
Would it not have been incumbent upon this man to call for assistance for the animal mauled?
Other facts of poor ownership aside. The fact remains that again, a breed will suffer for the ignorance and arrogance of his master.
As for your cat, I am truly sorry for your loss. I am sorrier that the whole situation happened, especially for the dog that was beaten with 2x4. That is abuse. I understand the extenuating circumstances. As for Glacier and her cat issue, it was horrifying for her also. Does that mean her breed or your neighbors breed are all born awful? No. Does it mean that instead of a spray people should instead carry bludgeoning tools? Or that we are all at the mercy of passerby willing to beat our dogs, that we failed to train properly?
I think not.
Dogs have prey drives for small animals but that doesnt ever mean they wont go after a little kid.. I was bitten by a dog when I was 3 because the dog saw me running and attacked me for no reason, I was in my yard playing and he was in another yard with his owner. so I think even if you think your dohg wouldnt hurt alittle kid dont always be so sure if its a high prey driven dog. the dog that bit me was a black lab and my best friend had the same thing happen to her when she was little by a golden retriever.
I don't fool with pepper spray but that's not to say that it probably wouldn't do the job nine times out of ten but my luck I'd be the tenth example around here, we have a loose dog problem in our county and with dogs NOT being contained properly even on their own property, vicious or not........I carry Mace tear gas, IT does the job and I have used it.Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsoul
Thank you, I am sorry for the loss of my cat as well. I just can't change my opinion that it is by far worse abuse to let an animal kill something than to beat it to make it stop. This was in a fenced yard, no leash available, and the owners screaming at the dog, trying to call it off. I do not think this dog was born awful -- I loved that dog and still do love that dog. He is a great dog. He was a great playmate for my female dog, he was a wonderful protector, and great with kids. My cat was the first and only cat he had killed. It certainly was not my cat's or my mother's fault that the dog had a high prey drive, or had not been trained to control his prey drive. That was all in hidsight. We wouldn't be watching that dog kill my cat, and thinking in hindsight "guess the dog should have been trained better or this wouldn't have happened, but we can't hurt the dog, so we'll just have to let the cat die since nothing else will stop it." They couldn't grab hold of his back legs. What else could have been done..It is easy to think in hindsight when it is all said and done. But in the now, when it's happening, you just can't point fingers. You do everything and anything you can to save your baby. I would have done the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Goodnow
I own a very driven terrier-type dog and I would never be stupid enough to let him off leash in an area where, say....a squirrel might run by. It would be sheer idiocy on my part to do something like that, to put him a position where he is bound to fail.
When I've seen dogs get into it at the park, the best solution I've seen (if the owners don't have control) is to grab them by their hand legs and drag them away from the action. Sure works better that trying to BEAT a dog into submission.
No, Staffs are not all aggressive, and almost never are they "vicious". Any breed can bite, maim, or kill a person.
This is for the most part true. But the Staff being a terrier breed is PART of it's problem. Terriers are tenacious, yes, but most of the other terrier breeds cannot inflict the harm/damage in a bite that a Pit breed can. That is biggest problem that society has with this. For example, I really would be hard pressed to think that, for instance a Jack Russell Terrier or say a Scottish Terrier would even inflict a minute amount of damage on that Swan that a Pit breed could or would or did in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsoul
My breed will chase things as well- and also give up with my pressence. The problem I see over and over is that you can NOT GET A STAFFY OFF OF ANY ATTACK.. Once gone- completeing the battle is all that exists in the mind.. " FINISH IT" is there.. Some say they are being bred to be less aggressive dogs- but I can tell you- genetics takes a long time...
Want pics of the dead ducks and geese from the neighbours JRT?Quote:
Originally Posted by Love That Collie
Get real! Any dog intent on killing an animal will do so, if it is not trained to release, and any owner of any breed that is specifically bred for hunting prey small or otherwise, that fails to teach is at fault.