I think it's the one from Gabbly, seems to have the same stupid intentions. :rolleyes: Some people need to get a life. Don't worry, Michelle, no one will listen to its comments. We know better. :)
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I think it's the one from Gabbly, seems to have the same stupid intentions. :rolleyes: Some people need to get a life. Don't worry, Michelle, no one will listen to its comments. We know better. :)
Your right of course. I just can't understand someone coming here with nothing to contribute just to cause trouble...when someone genuinly comes asking for advice and to give advice that could cause harm is just disgusting.
Whew! Thank you!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyhoundGirl
What a nice , positive outlook on PT..Quote:
Oh boy http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/eek.gif , yet another dog food war about to start! http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/rolleyes.gif http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/rolleyes.gif
c'mon guys get it all out there;
rip apart just about every brand out there that isn't found by driving 50 miles or online ordering or making it yourself.
get into a debate over kibble vs. raw
throw in a few digs at Wally's World for fun,
get into a huge scientific debate over corn & by-products
And in the end everyone is either peeved or confused.
*sigh*
same old, same old http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/frown.gif
Bet this thread takes at least 2 weeks to slow down and finishes with about 4 pages minimum. http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/wink.gif
I belive the Dog Health section is made to DISCUSS things like this.
I feed a raw diet, and love it! :) I fed alot of kibbles but never found anything that did so well for my dog as raw does.
I wouldn't use Science Diet, personally -- low quality ingredients -- but alot of dogs nowadays are getting more and more used to low quality ingredients and grains that are difficult to digest. It's more the chemical components of SD that are scary -- ingredients like ethoxyquin, BHT and BHA, are considered carcinogenic and dangerous, and have been linked to problems such as cancer, epilepsy, stillbirth, birth defects, etc. Even if a dog does well on a food like this -- my motto is still "prevention is the key!" :)
Kay gave a great list of dog foods, foods that I would use if I wasn't feeding raw. But just do whatever is best for you -- every dog is different and has different tastes.
I also don't feed puppy food, I think it's a big marketing scam and dangerous to the pup's health.
My guys have coats that gleam, wonderful muscle, and healthier all the way around. The only one of mine with problems is Hottie- and his is due to his broken growth plate being put in a cast as a puppy. However- they said at 2 years old he would not make 5- as stated before - he is 9 now! I credit that to his diet...
I'd probably have a more positive outlook if things didn't normally get so heated on this particular topic, although I'll admit it's been tame thus far.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttercup132
Basically I just get a little peeved when people think that all vets/techs don't know anything about nutrition because they sell pet food. Not all vets push a particular pet food, nor do all of them sell it. Not all vets/techs are ignorant of pet nutrition.
Our particular hospital ONLY sells prescription foods, and we never make a recommendation of any one particular food, we do not receive any 'perks' from selling/pushing any particular brand, and our greatest interest is not only in the pets being fed a nutritional food, but also foods that the majority of our clients are willing to buy (due to price or availability). A food could be the best thing on the planet, however if our clients cannot find, afford, or choose to spend the $$ on the super premium foods, then it's counterproductive to 'push' one of those foods since the client is not going to do it anyways, which makes us look like we stand to profit from the sale of said foods.
As for someone truely wanting to know about pet nutrition here is a website called petDIETS.com an independent agency (not supported by pet food/supplement companies) specifically trained as a pet nutritionist with a chunk of credentials in the field. If someone were truely interested in pet nutrition I'd highly recommend her website. There is a TON of info on it.
Founder Rebecca Remillard, Ph.D., D.V.M., DACVN
EDUCATION DIPLOMATE of the AMERICAN COLLEGE of VETERINARY NUTRITION, September 1991, Board certified in Comparative (Large and Small Animal) Veterinary Nutrition. DOCTORATE of VETERINARY MEDICINE, May 1987, Tufts University, School of Veterinary Medicine, Boston, Massachusetts. DOCTORATE of PHILOSOPHY, Animal Science - Nutrition, May 1983, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, Colorado. MASTERS DEGREE of SCIENCE, Animal Science - Nutrition, August 1978, University of Maine, Orono, Maine. BACHELORS DEGREE of SCIENCE, Animal Science, May 1976, Purdue University, W.Lafayette, Indiana. PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE VETERINARY NUTRITONAL CONSULTATIONS, inc: President and founder of a company providing individualized pet nutritionally consultations to veterinarians and owners. MSPCA ANGELL ANIMAL MEDICAL CENTER: 3/93 - present as Staff Veterinarian - Clinical Nutritionist for an urban referral hospital serving approximately 50,000 dog and cat cases annually. POSTDOCTORAL SURGICAL FELLOW: 4/91 - 2/93 at Johns Hopkins University, School of Medicine researching parenteral nutrition induced gastrointestinal atrophy and mitogenic factors in enteral feeding diets using monogastric species. CLINICAL NUTRITION RESIDENCY: 7/87 - 8/90 at Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine.
I don't believe anyone's ever said that ALL vets/tech don't know anything about nutrition. The fact is, a lot don't. My vet didn't even know HALF of the organic/all natural dog foods when we spoke about foods one day. He knew Science Diet, Iams, etc.
A local vet sells pre-packaged raw. If I could afford to bring all of my dogs there, I would. However, I can't. So, I research and research to pick up the slack of my vet's lack of dog nutrition knowledge.
My favorite dog nutrition site...
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/
She is amazingly knowledgeable when it comes to nutrition, foods, etc. There is tons of wonderful information given.
Catlady-
Our vet sells perscription diets, will discuss foods with people, but also supports my feeding raw. They even seem to have grown in the learning processing of feeding raw. Three of the 7 feed raw now, and also report improvements to me as a form of a compliment or question. They have a huge office type complex- with alot of state of the art equipment- and I am sure this takes money to run. However- I have yet to receive information or suggestions that are based on anything else- other than the health of my dogs. I trust my vet to the point that I do not take HOttie out of the county. Iwant him near by as I only want this series of vets to be my "dogs doctor"..
Obviously I believe a raw diet is the best-HOWEVER- a raw diet done half committed on the owners part for either time or physical reasons, is better left NOT done at all. To me, having done this for 19 years, its not hard for me- and automatic. Automatic to the point that when I had to go to a different diet last month- I felt like I wasnt doing the best I could for them- and of course- they were fine.. With 4 huge dogs, its also cheaper for me to do, to buy the groceries than it would be to feed these 4 on a good "commerical" diet.
Kay- those logs are expensive! 30 pounds of canine cravings is 55 dollars- but still cheaper than say some of the other higher grade diets. I use grocery food, and make the same type of receipes if you even want to try my method.. It costs me basically 70 cents a pound to do this way- verses any good "commercial diet " ( including bil jac or solid gold, timberwolf etc) that is over a dollar a pound. You seem set and confident in what you are feeding, but if you want to know how I feed, I will be happy to tell you..
I may just be fortunate enough to work for a hospital that isn't into trying to make a profit from the sale of dog food. From what I've heard from many of our new clients, it seems to be common at other vets to 'push' a particular brand for profit, and toys and try to compete with the pet stores.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kfamr
However it's comments like this one earlier in the thread....
and others far worse I've seen in other threads that seem to generalize that ALL vets/techs know nothing about pet nutrition. If I worked for one of those 'push the dog food brand XYZ' type of hospitals I'd probably not be quite so bristly about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giselle
If our vets are unfamiliar with a particuar brand a client is using they ask to see the label and look at not only the ingredients but the % of things in it to determine if it's a good food or a lousy one on a case by case basis for that particular dog and it's health needs. If we find a particularly good one they usually ask where the client about where they got it and how much it cost in case they want to refer it to another client.
Well I must say that I love my vet and the staff. They are very knowlegable about diets and do not sell any food at their office other than prescription diets.
And they are confident enough in themselves to know if that can't treat something to send their clients to MSU. Which they've done with me twice now. I know they wish they could help, but they are not about to risk the life of my pets trying to fix a problem they know they can't. :)
I understand such a blanket comment could make you upset, but please don't judge the whole board or certain threads by one members opinion. :)
Catlady, my Vet is awesome! They sell Wellness, Solid Gold, Evo & pre-made Raw, and he is happy to give me Raw advice. I went through 4 other Vets before finding him... all except for 1 pretty much shunned me for even suggesting feeding Raw, and pushed Eukanuba & SD & Iams instead. Not ALL Vets are poorly educated about nutrition, but unforunately many are, and prefer to give "safe" advice & push popular, lower quality kibble. In a way, I do understand why many of them do it, but nothing is going to change until more Vets at least try to recommend premium kibble. My friends stepmom has been a tech for years & years... she didn't even know what Evo, Solid Gold, etc, is. She feeds her animals Iams & SD, and although 2 of them are quite unhealthy, she refuses to even consider feeding them something better.
"It costs me basically 70 cents a pound to do this way- verses any good "commercial diet " ( including bil jac or solid gold, timberwolf etc) that is over a dollar a pound."
I pay about the same per lb for Raw all together... however, because of the moisture content, feeding 1 lb of Raw is very different than feeding 1 lb of kibble. ;] I paid about $2 per lb for Evo, and although in the long-run I do pay more for Raw, it's absolutely worth it if I factor in the cost of daily greenies/chews/teeth cleaning/supplements/etc. Plus my two (especially Gonzo) are phenominally healthy.
Thank you. I will try to keep that in mind next time I see a post like that. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ramanth
My vet is great, in fact we just went to see her today! She sells a tons of different premade raw diets, Innova, Timberwolf Organics, Canidae, etc. She will educate anyone that feeds foods with bad ingredients, but won't push her own foods on them -- in fact she will recommend foods she doesn't carry. Most of her clients feed raw anyways.
I love mine also.
The comment about moisture content on "logs" is correct. I make my own diets- proven over years and it works..