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I don't think 30 seconds of work every four or five days would qualify as being "run ragged."Quote:
Originally posted by PJ's Mom
True, but people don't have to profit from dogs being run ragged on a track. :confused:
Where do you live PJ's Mom? Maybe we can get you out to a track and see for yourself.
You have mischaracterized the nature of that thread. I recall it differently. Several people, including long-time PTers, can attest to how it actually went. Here's my version and see who believes my version or yours:Quote:
Originally posted by true
i think whats happened overall is that someone posted a cute thread about their new pet greyhound, then some pro racing people came in and gave their line. then anti racing people came and and responded with their own line.
A young lady posted a thread with a photo of her cousin's greyhound. She described it as "20-30 pounds underweight," "shy," and with "scars." While the tone of her post seemed to be happy that her cousins had adopted a greyhound, her manner suggested that it had been abused. She even put one of these after her description of him. :(
I suggested that a greyhound 20-30 pounds underweight would be emaciated. The greyhound in the photo looked absolutely normal.
You know as well as I do that greyhounds have very thin skin and scars are common on pets as well as racers. Shyness is typical of newly adopted dogs.
I made a number of offers:
1) To find out the dog's racing name. With that I could find out the kennel or racing owner and where the dog raced and his racing weight so his new owners could establish a baseline for determining his proper pet weight which should be no more than 5 pounds or so over his racing weight.
2) If the dog had been mistreated, as the poster seemed to imply, I might be able to find out who might have done it. I know or can quickly find out the reputations of nearly every kennel operator out there. It just takes a few phone calls.
3) I could find out the breeder. My experience with greyhounds is that 90% of a greyhounds scars occur in puppyhood when its littermates play too rough with those sharp puppy teeth. There is nothing quite like going into a turnout pen at a farm with 13 snapping, nipping, jumping nearly grown puppies. One hook by one of those teeth in a play nip is a scar.
While making these offers of my time and effort I had to endure sniping and crabbing by a number of people who made disparaging comments while I was trying to help.
Then along you come, with an immediate personal attack on me, and got the thread deleted with just two posts. Nice job. You showed your "true" colors.
It actually is for the enrichment of the dogs also. Why do you think that greyhounds are one of the only breeds that don't have hip dysplasia?Quote:
[i]Originally posted by lizbud
Dog racing is for the entertainment & enrichment of
humans, not the dogs. [/B]
Also for a large breed dog not uncommon for them to live to 15 or 16.
How many large breed dogs do you know that it's common for them to live to that age?
I don't want to get to far off topic.
Icee is a beautiful little girl. She's is and will be getting the best care before, during and after her racing career is over.
She will be a champ in Coaches eyes no matter if she's a grade A or a grade off and that is what really matters :)
That's right :)
And if I were in J'ville... I'd do as Martin likes to do and whisper into Icee's ear, and every one of her littermates, "You're going to be the next Orange Park Derby Champion!"
Isnt rather frustrating for a dog to chase after a plastic whatever the heck it is with NEVER getting a chance at catching it?
Isnt frustrating to be a running dog as you always remind us by only running when the trainers and owners deem it time? I am going by the info provided by some gray owners on here? no?? Am I mistaken? correct me if i am wrong please.
I figure that dogs should be allowed to run whenever they want! and trust me,, my dogs will sprint about with no warning given to anyone!
I love the sport of Agility, and flyball,,, the dogs have fun and are praised up and down, spend quality time with thier owners and not some trainer.
there was a user here that claimed I said the sport was CRUELTY to animals... I NEVER said that.. she also said I was anti dog and then used a profane word. I defy anybody on here to find on this thread or anywheres else where I said any such thing! I love dogs in sports,, I just cant abide racing dogs!! just my humble opinion is all and I would hope that in PT that we can all voice our opinions in a mature logical manner without having the fear of being verbally attacked!
I do however hope that anyone who owns a gray that they do well if they choose to race. Success is always one hopes for for ones friend.
Good Morning, Lorraine :)
Well said... but, let me see if I can answer some of your questions.
1. I'm not so sure they get frustrated...I've been to tracks only a couple times seeing how dogracing is illegal in CA (Thanks to the Horse racing lobby in the 30's). But, each time, I've seen dogs that are excited about what's going to happen.
From my recollection, here's how it works... after being weighed in, having their tattoo #'s verified, dressed with racing "slick"... I forget what they're really called... they are led onto the track by a leadout who parades the dog in front of the grandstand while the track announcer introduces the hound. They've all got that big greyhound grin and tails-a-waggin...and yes... from what I've seen... ALL. These guys know they're the show...the stars...the reason why people are there. They're then taken to the starting box where they wait about 5-7 minutes (for what, I dont know), but, once they're in the box, they start yelping, yippin, barking, roo'ing with excitement. All that noise only gets louder when they hounds hear the lure coming around the corner.
Once they finish the race, the lure operator either covers up or retrieves the lure so the hounds can't rip it apart. The leadouts then chase the hounds down, leash them up, then parade them one last time in front of the grandstand with the win, place, show dogs leading the way back to the kennel.
The couple times I went to the races, I was literally less than 10 feet away from the hounds as they walked back to their kennels...each and everyone of them had a glint in their eye and HUGE grins as their lungs and heart were pounding.
About letting them get out and run on their own when they want to... Well, let me tell you a little bit about greys...They are the LAZIEST dogs in the world. My dad has 2 pugs that he swears will take over the world if they ever stayed awake long enough...but, my Sequoia will sleep them under the table. Greys dont require a ton of excercise...I take Sequoia to the park 3-4 times a week and she runs... I mean REALLY runs...but, it's only in spurts. If she rips of 4-5 good 20-30 second runs, it's beena good day at the park. She's otherwise laying in the shade. And we're rarely at the park longer than an hour. While at the track, hounds are turned out 3-4 times a day for an hour at a time... this is in addition to their daily training. I mean, come on, does anyone REALLY think that an athlete is going to be worth a darn if he/she isn't training? Newp...aint gunna happen. I'll betcha $5 that Sequoia spent more time outside when she was racing than she has since I've had her. Lazybutt!
Lorraine, I'm not trying to come off as "pro-racing" or anything, but, I'm certainly not "anti-racing". I'm justa guy... one guy... I have my opinions about things, and I can see both the good and bad about things..But, I REALLY think that by and large people are trying to improve the state of racing.. I know Icee's owners are, and that's why I don't mind, and am looking forward to her impending career :)
thank you for your reply,, I appreciate it alot :) Its nice to be able to *talk* about this and see other points of views and opinions.... and not be attacked!
Best of luck with her career!
id like to post my impressions of some tracks that i have been to. i dont want to make it seem like a debate tho, because my experiences are very different than coaches.
i could tell what i have seen factually if people are interested in hearing about it.
I don't think anyway will argue, that she isn't an adorable puppy!! Very cute!!
Icee is sooo cute!:D
i personally enjoy dog races and i figger that if the dogs are responding to the training and doin what they are trained to do they enjoy it....did i mention that ICEE IS ADORABLE!!!:D
I think its great that you've given your pup a life even after her racing career. I wish more people would look into this!
I have friends who have adopted 7 or 8 retired racers.... shes a groomer and he is a computer programmer..... thats a lot of doggies!!!!!Quote:
Originally posted by DJFyrewolf36
I think its great that you've given your pup a life even after her racing career. I wish more people would look into this!
Maybe I could mention one little thing without getting attacked?
Dogs don't grin. They pant. They only look like they are grinning because their mouths are open. This is not to say that they are not happy after they run. I believe they are. I think they feel great when they are exhausted. We can tell that dogs are happy from other types of body language as well.
The only reason I bring this up is so people can be aware that there can be times when your dog is not feeling well and may be panting because of it and you should not assume that your dog is smiling and overlook the signs of illness. I know it has nothing to do with this topic but I thought it was important for people to know and couldn't see opening a new thread about it.
That's all.
Jay
(real name witheld for personal reasons. If you want to know them, PM me)
Once again...the anonymous poster refuses to abide by someone's wishes...
Do you REALLY feel ANYONE thinks that look is indeed a smile? If that's what you think, you need your head examined. I can see it now.. "OMG!!! He's telling theese people that these dogs can actually smile... I MUST POST!!!"
Good God, woman.. get over yourself and go do some good you claim to do instead of blasting people's threads out of the water on a daily basis.
This isn't a thread for you to spout your vitriolic hatred for the industry.. read my posts, woman, and figure out where I stand on the subject as I think I've clearly presented my feelings about it.
Icee is a cutie. I didn't know that there was a pre-adoption program out there. What a greyt idea.
I've had Sammi for 4 yrs, Shotzie for 3 yrs and Scrappie for 2 yrs. My Shotzie & Scrappie are littermates that spent all but 8 months of their 7 years together. And BTW... Shotzie SMILES... ear to ear. Sammi and Scrappie smile (not as big as Shotzie)... even our lab and our Italian grey smile.
Joan & The James Gang
Well, the only way to get people aware of it is to talk about it :) Which is what I've chosen to do... Icee and all of her littermates have a waiting list of people ready to pre-adopt that's at least 2 deep for each pup. With the exception of Icee, of course, cuz that hound aint goin anywhere but to a couch in my home when she's done and everyone involved over on GT KNOWS this! In fact, there's a litter of pups that's 3 weeks older than Icee's litter, and they have the same deal going.. 2-3 people deep wanting to adopt them post-racing :)Quote:
Originally posted by DJFyrewolf36
I think its great that you've given your pup a life even after her racing career. I wish more people would look into this!
Awww...
Well, I've kept quiet long enough. First, you berate my friend (yes, GD is a friend and I know him fairly well) and turn his thread regarding a beautiful creature he's thrilled to adopt into a hate-spewing debacle. THEN, you have the audacity to claim that dogs don't smile??? True, scientifically they may not be able to "smile" as humans do, but they damn sure do SMILE in so many other ways.Quote:
Originally posted by 7up
Maybe I could mention one little thing without getting attacked?
Dogs don't grin. They pant. They only look like they are grinning because their mouths are open. This is not to say that they are not happy after they run. I believe they are. I think they feel great when they are exhausted. We can tell that dogs are happy from other types of body language as well.
The only reason I bring this up is so people can be aware that there can be times when your dog is not feeling well and may be panting because of it and you should not assume that your dog is smiling and overlook the signs of illness. I know it has nothing to do with this topic but I thought it was important for people to know and couldn't see opening a new thread about it.
That's all.
Jay
(real name witheld for personal reasons. If you want to know them, PM me)
The grin is sometimes associated with panting, yes, but often times it's not. I can't tell you how many times I've photographically caught my dogs "smiling" when they were neither panting before or after the photo was taken. Often times, the smile might be caused by the musclature movement of their face, perhaps due to excessive jubilation (hence a smile) -- this is also evident in the widening of their eyes and other facial movements such as a twitching nose, which might also indicate curiosity. I've pored through book after book with dogs smiling and I seriously doubt they were all for the reasons you state (http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/bibli...7-0761129030-2.)
Granted it's best to be aware of what you stated above, but condemning an idea that dogs smile (which is perhaps just as much fluff as it is based on what people see with their own eyes) in a thread where it wasn't even called for in the first place is not too far off from the people who used to claim animals can't feel or acknowledge emotion. My dog smiles, acknowledges my emotions and the whole rest of the 9 yards regarding intelligence and perception that most don't accredit to the canine species. And just because you can't scientifically prove it doesn't mean a hill of beans to me or to any other real dog lovers.
Overall, my point is, no one came here to this thread looking for a fight or debate except you. I came to see beautiful pictures of Icee (Uncle Speck says hi, Icee!) and if you're looking for that kind of conflict, take thee elsewhere. It ain't here, sister. As much as we appreciate differing (and rational/non-abrasive) opinion in other threads, there was nothing to debate here. Your feelings about racing are rendered useless here and only serve to blind you to what is otherwise just a thread about appreciating the beauty of a dog.
Back to our regularly-scheduled program... greyt pics of Icee! I love the ears... got any more shots of the ears? Show them the ears, again, GD!!!! (They've got spots on 'em...) :D
I will try to get spotted ear pics for you tomorrow morning, MOTF. :)
ask and ye shall receive...
http://www.hometown.aol.com/greyhoun...9682_thumb.jpg
"....mmmmmmm, nummy goat's milk to fill my tummers! moob ober brudder... it's Icee Time!!!..."
I just saw this thread I'm so intrested in the pre adoption idea very resposible idea. Your dogs are very beautiful I remeber when a couple of sled racers started here until they were know better . The same stuff happened. Welcome and keep us up on the progress of the little one.
Ohhh!
Icee is SOO cute. I just want to kiss his little nose! :p
Congrats on your "New addition". Hopefully their will be PLENTY more pictures to follow? ;) ;)
As for 7up, Go away if all your going to do it stir up more trouble. All GHD wants to do is show off his new baby, and your really not contribuiting to the many "Congrats!". So, PT doesn't need any trouble. :)
You're beautiful, Jay. :DQuote:
Originally posted by 7up
Maybe I could mention one little thing without getting attacked?
You come in here and crap all over GD's cute puppy thread and then worry about being "attacked." :rolleyes:
That's her M.O., Martin.. always worried how she'll appear. Why do you think she hides in anonymity and why people like you and I readily mention who we are...it's simple really, if you've got nothing to hide... you don't ;)
omg what a gorgeous pup!:D i hope she does well for you!Post many more pics of her;)
She's adorable!
I know she'll have the time of her life, running. I believe if its what the dog was originally bred to do, and the dog enjoys it, go for it! :D I'll be rootin' her on.
Congrats!
There's my sweet girl!!!!! And her sweet Daddy!!!
If anyone ever has any doubt about how well these puppies, in particular, are treated and how much they are loved, then they have simply to come and see them and meet their current mommy. She has to be one of the warmest, lovingest, sweetest women on the planet. And she goes out of her way daily to make sure that these babies are healthy, happy and and have wonderful lives. There is not a better mommy or friend that they or I could have.
Bred to run or not, they do LOVE to run! Not for long periods.... gosh that sure takes it out of you.... and then you have to rest for a long time. And they do love to play, and play they do... until they wear their little selves right out. It's hard work I'm telling you!
And as for GreyHoundDaddy. I'm not sure I've ever met a man who has loved and doted on (and spoiled) his baby more and who has been more proud of his baby girl regardless of what type of dog she is. So, it seems to me that this thread is about nothing more than a proud daddy showing off his new baby! And what a beautiful baby she is! And I am very proud that she will be going home with him one day.
And one other thing I have to say. Dogs DO smile... They can grin like crazy and a grinny dog is my favorite kind of dog..... have you never seen a grinning dog..... My dog grins from ear to ear when she greets people that she really loves or when she gets really excited or happy over something. And at 14 she rarely does anything that causes her to pant, so I can't really attribute it to that.
Sorry this is so long, but let's try to keep the focus here.... It does make me happy that there are so many people who are willing to make peace rather than argument. And basically to agree to disagree as it were.
What a beauty your new baby is.
Love and good wishes to all
puppy midwife extraordinaire
anne
Why are the puppies drinking goats milk??
Have they been taken away from their mother??
They are old enough at this age that they have been weaned by their mother, although they still spend some time with her.
The goats milk is just something that they like that helps keep them healthy. It was used as a supplement to mother's milk as well when it was needed.
Puppies are given goats milk to supplement their kibble. They love it. They will eventually be introduced to meat and weaned from the goat's milk.Quote:
Originally posted by pitc9
Why are the puppies drinking goats milk??
Have they been taken away from their mother??
Most farmers take the pups from their dam at around three months. Farmers understand that there is a great deal of greyhound lore to be taught the pups by their mothers. It's cute to see her in the sprint field every day being chased by a bunch of her pups desperate to keep up. Most dams know to set a pace just ahead of the pups.
An Irish breeder I know thinks this is so important he tries to leave them in until a month or so before the dam's next season which could be up to nine months. This can be done with litters that get along famously, but three months is about the age that the pups' playful scrapping can become injurious, so farmers figure out who is picking on whom and put them in separate pens. This is also about the time that some dams lose patience with their pups and can be overzealous in their discipline.
If the litter is a large one, or there are rivalry issues, the pups will be broken up into factions and placed in neighboring pens. Sometimes a pup who is a pariah in his litter and is picked on by the rest is put in with a friendly litter of similar or slightly younger age.
Watching the pack dynamics in these litters is endlessly facinating, especially when one knows the personalities of the sire and dam well. It doesn't take long for the pups' personalities to emerge. It sounds like Cathie had this litter's temperaments figured out after just a few weeks.
yeah... what Martin said!
i wanted to respond to some of the thigns in this thread, but didnt want to start a debate here, so i started a new one in another area. please visit it ehre : http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/show...threadid=63685 so that we can leave this thread to be about the cuteness of puppies.
I posted my thoughts there, too. Considering that I was once more AR than True ever was, you might find them interesting.Quote:
Originally posted by true
i wanted to respond to some of the thigns in this thread, but didnt want to start a debate here, so i started a new one in another area. please visit it ehre : http://www.petoftheday.com/talk/show...threadid=63685 so that we can leave this thread to be about the cuteness of puppies.
Martin
Awww, what cuties! They are just precious, GreyhoundDaddy. :)
When do you start to train them for racing? I would love to see some pictures of them running, too. They must love that.
Well, I wont be doing the training actually. I live in San Diego, Icee, her littermates and her owner live in Jacksonville. I'm not 100% sure on the methods and schedule of her training, but if you look here Greyhound race training you'll get a detailed account of what it is to grow up a racing greyhound :)