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One of the more difficult aspects to keeping your pets indoors is YOU are left having to entertain them. For some pet owners it's easier to just let the cat outside. It takes a lot more work and dedication on the part of the owner to be proactive and not let their pets gets bored.
[This message has been edited by Vi Co Bi (edited March 20, 2001).]
I'm a little late jumping in on this topic, but I agree that beloved pets should be protected, but provided a good quality of life as well. I personally think an all indoor lifestyle is best, but there have been some cases where the cat absolutely wants to go outside, so I think enclosures are the best idea for that option. That way they can enjoy the great outdoors with less danger. I was always saddened to see poor little kitties trying to huddle together to keep warm when I lived in IN. The weather there is so harsh! I doubt that any cat would "want" to be outside in terrible weather. Most people's "outdoor" cats seemed to live short horrible lives. Not really by their choice either. Here in CA the temps are quite mild, so being an outdoor animal isn't quite as bad weather wise. Here's the scoop on my kitties. My husband and I are owned by 2 DSH cats, both indoor only. A local stray has adopted me as her "foster mom" as I give her food, water, shelter and vaccinations via the stray/feral program. Oh, how I hate leaving her outside(and I can tell she wants in because she's practically glued to my door when I open it in the morning to feed her), but we just can't have another cat inside with our 2 and one has a behavioral problem. As for our 2 indoor cats, Marius came to me as a stray in very poor condition. He has absolutely no desire to go back outside, probably because he associates it with his previous horrible life. He looks out the window, but when we open any doors, he's nowhere to be found(unless Crookshanks, the stray cat, is around). Scooter is the same way. He likes looking out the window, but doesn't find venturing outside to be his thing. We've even attempted to bring them outside on leashes for a brush and walk around, but they just "glue" to the ground, or head back for the door. This is perfectly fine with me, because they have enough stimulation inside to keep them happy. I think indoor cats can be as happy or even moreso than outdoor cats. Although, if someone wants to let their cats outside because they think it's good for them, than that's fine under supervision, and precautions. Outdoor enclosures are a great idea! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif
Stating thatis complete nonsense.Quote:
Most people's "outdoor" cats seemed to live short horrible lives
I understand that in some parts of the world it is simply not safe to allow cats outside due to local laws and attitudes of people but in many parts of the world cats can be allowed outside to enjoy a natural, healthy lifestyle.
All of the cats I have owned have enjoyed long healthy happy lives, all of them living into their teens...
Sorry to sound so belligerant but I do think we often forget that the reasons cats are locked inside is due to the fact they would not be safe outside - and that is due to us, mankind. They would certainly be happier outside because it is in their nature to "explore", climb trees, chase mice and birds, meet and socialise with other cats, and play hide and seek in the bushes. We could argue that it is "safer" for them inside but at some point we must realise that it would be like keeping your child locked inside all their life for fear of something happening to them...there is a trade off at some point and it is important to realise that this varies from place to place. If the dangers to your pet are real then it makes sense to keep them inside; if not then an outside life is ideal.
Troy is certainly right, this is a personal decision that has to be based on many things that vary from pet owner to pet owner. In most of urban and suburban America, it is likely that most cats are safer inside. And most danger is created by man, as it is with all the creatures of the earth.
But factors vary within the cats themselves, too. Not all cats are avid hunters, and the fact that they can't chase mice and birds is no great loss. Not all of them climb trees and play hide and seek. And by nature cats are solitary animals, so the fact that they can't meet the neighbors would probably not be a significant matter to them, either. Also, many of these activities can be simulated or experiences indoors - multicat household cats certainly are socialized, and many and varied toys make for good "mouse" chases, and some good furniture, cat or people, can be easily climbed.
Many indoor/outdoor cats live through their teens, and many indoor cats die kittens.
It is a personal decision, and certainly no one's opinion is nonsense for them.
I believe that one reason Butter is with us now (we found his previous owner) is because he can come inside whenever he wants to. I still believe that if traffic is not furious, that mine are ok to come in and out of the house as they please. And believe me, they let me know quickly when it is time to come inside. In fact, they will find the window in the room I am in, no matter where I am, and give me the big "YEOOOOOOW" to let me know its time to open the door! I would be happy for them to stay inside if that is what they preferred, but neither of mine would be very happy. The positive thing is that they mostly hang out in the backyard with the dogs anyway, or next door at my neighbor's house, so I count myself as the lucky one. All I have to do is go to the door and call their name, and both come running....but never at the same time!!!
I know it is a personal decision and I am not trying to force my thoughts on anyone, but it seems about once a month I see a dead kitty on the road and I wonder if they might have fared better inside. Then again, they may have been feral and had no home to be in anyway, so who is to say. There really is no black and white here I suppose. We each do what we feel is best.
Well it seems as if the key issue in deciding wether a cat should be indoors or outdoors is how safe it will be.
I like to allow my cats the ability to come and go as they wish. This means that whenever I move the priority is to find a property that is cat friendly, ie. I look for a house that does not have access from the back-yard to the front of the house which means I can let the cats out the back without them making it to the front of the house and therefore the road. I also make sure that access from the back-yard to any roads is not readily available. All these considerations may make looking for a house difficult but it keeps my cats safe and is well worth the effort - and I'm sure we all agree on that!
I agree that a person's opinion is not "complete nonsense". Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I'm sure everyone here does what's best for their cats and their situations. For me, growing up and seeing other people's outdoor cats suffering wasn't a really good influencer either. People's opinions and beliefs are shaped by what they see and how they've been brought up. It's still saddens me when I see dead cats in the road, be it stray or especially pets with collars on. For my cats, they don't have a desire to go out, so I'm not going to force them. They seem as happy as they possibly could. I'm not attacking people to have outdoor cats either. After all, I suppose in a way I have an "outdoor cat" which is a stray. I can tell she would rather be an indoor cat though. I don't know her history, but I know something bad had to have happened to her because her tail has a really bad break in it near the tip. I inquired with the vet about that when I took her in under the stray program, and he said that it probably doesn't hurt her anymore, but it looks really bad. Anyway, my point is, if your cats are happy inside, then leave them inside. If they're happy going in and out, that's fine, there's just a little more precaution to make, like Troy mentioned about finding a house that's cat friendly. Although I do favor enclosures to the outdoor life, but that's just my opinion.
you guys have opened my eyes. as soon as my cat has his 'fixing operation'. i'm gonna start getting him used to the outdoors on a harness and leash. I've never actually seen anyone walk their cat though.
oh, and i think declawing is cruel too. just think if your cat was to escape, how would it defend itself or catch food? Getting a cat "fixed" is also cruel but that is necessary to cat populations. not doing that makes more problems and more stray or abandoned cats. poor guys.
Wolflady, I sorry if I offended you by saying your statement was complete nonsense. It just offends me to read such generalised, and to a large part unfounded, criticism about the quality of life of outdoor cats.
By the way, perhaps there is some misunderstanding on the definition of an outdoors cat? To me an indoor cat is one that in not allowed outside. An outdoor cat is one that has the choice to come and go as it pleases. Perhaps we should change the definitions like so:
Indoors cat - stays inside and is not allowed outdoors
Outdoors cat - stays outside and is not allowed indoors
I/O Cat - is allowed to come and go as they please
My cats are all I/O Cats.
PS. Spencer, try to refrain from drawing programming analogies to the term "I/O cats" - especially if you are familiar with UNIX.
I would very much appreciate the mpg "Hearding Cats"...thanks SpencerTheLion.
Speaking computers, under the UNIX shell if you type in the following command:
> cat "door: paws too slippery"
the system will return:
cat can't open door: paws too slippery
...sorry to bore you all but I found it interesting http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif
PS. Besides, one of my cats can open doors http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif
Troy, no problem. I was not attacking you or anyone with outdoor cats anyway. I was just expressing my opinion, and what I was familiar with growing up. That's all I ever saw with outdoor cats was misery. Missing eye, bitten off ears, ratty coats, pest infestations (Cat Fancy advocates indoor cats because of this) and short lives...and these supposedly being peoples "pets". Maybe I was young and naive not to mention impressionable. You did point out the difference between strictly outdoor cats and I/O cats. These aformentioned (outdoor) were outdoor all the time. Maybe that's the difference, and where my view of suffering comes from...the outdoor all the time "pets". That was before we moved to our new neighborhood when I was a senior in high school and outdoor animals were not allowed without supervision. I didn't encounter these miserable cats like I did before, except for the stray that I adopted.
Like I said, if they are happy being inside, great. If they like I/O (I found that amusing since I'm in the computer biz BTW http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif ), then that's fine too! I think it's great that people take into account what's good for their pets and what makes them happy and keeps them healthy. Sorry for offending you and anybody else.
The "hearding cats" superbowl commercial was a hoot! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif
Some of the plants that I grow and my cats like to eat are:
- Most grasses (as long as they are not too course, Bamboo grass, Cat grass)
- Catmint and Mints (loves moist, warm climate)
- Rosemary is a favourite (loves dry, warm climate)
- Thyme (loves medium-dry, warm climate)
Fortunately most of these are very easy to grow, and in fact you should keep an eye on mint as it can become a pest (although a nicer pest than weeds http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif ) I wouldn't use any growing aids like fertilisers with plants your cats are going to eat - unless you make them inaccessible for a day after application.
Sometimes the cats even leave me some to cook with! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif
I think there is something missing from this discussion and that is the songbirds. Edwina is quite well-fed (!) and still her instincts make her go after birds. (If only I could convince her to go after mice, but that's another story.) Anyway, the only time she successful caught a bird she had absolutely no idea what to do with it. She certainly didn't need to eat it so it was simply needless killing of a bird. I have read that the song bird population is seriously depleted by house cats responding to instinct.
We don't allow her out without her halter -- which has a bell on it, her leash so we can stop her quickly and a chaperon! Consequently we have a great collection of birds at our feeder; cardinals, blue jays, robins, mourning doves, sparrows, woodpeckers, etc. for her to watch from INSIDE the house.
Hearding cats was great! It did look like some sort of clip from a western!LOL http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif I liked the computer graphics that they did. Wonder what kind of graphics program they used...
I am from Myrtle Beach, South Carolina and I have to agree with the UK people that I think that cats should be allowed outside. I have always had outside only cats although some have run off or dissapeared(and it is heartbreaking) the two we have raised from Kittens have stayed around and they are healthy happy cats. I live out in the country so the threat of cars is not so big but wild animals are. But, cats know how to defend themselves. As far as rabies, we get their shots, as far as parasites and other stuff we keep them clean and brushed and take them to the vet reg. I am about to adopt an indoor cat from someone. This is a persian who has never gone out. It should be an experience for me to have an indoor cat.
The "Hearding Cats" video was terrific! I have passed it on to several friends. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif
I used to have bells on my cats so they would not catch prey. Unfortunately this did not work very well and I have since read that cats will catch the same number of critters with or without bells (based on a study of 1500 cats). The other downside of bells is that it tells the cat's enemies (wether other cats or not) where kitty is! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/eek.gif
I've heard that old "decimated songbird population" thing before, too, and common sense alone should debunk that theory - not only does Spencer have a good point in that birds would have become extinct long ago, but also since millions and billions more cats are domesticated now, and therefore are more nourished and well-fed and kept indoors, there are even fewer catching birds now than ever before.
Regarding the ongoing debate about outdoor vs indoor, I found it surprising that the oldest cat in America (according to an article in June 2001 Cat Fancy magazine) is a cat called Starbuck who is 27 AND an indoor/outdoor kitty! Obviously there are many factors to consider when deciding whether or not to allow your cat to venture outside, and the decision is hopefully one that both owner and cat can live long and happily with.
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Regards ~ AvaJoy
=^.".^=
Some cats are survivors against all odds. When my sister died many years ago at age 19, her cats escaped before anyone could round them up. One was found a few days later by a family a few miles from my sister's apartment. When they heard the story, they asked to adopt him. Two months later TJ was found miles away (Spencer and anyone else from D/FW: my sister lived at Noel Rd & LBJ in Dallas, TJ was found in Garland!) He weighed about 5 lbs and had a badly broken jaw that had healed unset. Thank God he still had his tags, so the people could track us down. He had to have his jaw rebroken and set and we had to spoon feed him pureed cat food. But he survived. He eventually regained his weight to 14 lbs, but his jaw never healed correctly and he always had a snaggle tooth, drooled, and had to eat soft food. That led to many tooth problems and some extractions. But he survived. After many years, when he was quite elderly, he was attacked by a dog that jumped my parent's fence and had to have surgery on his rectum. But he survived. He eventually developed hyperparathyroidism, but still lived another 5 years. He died in his sleep, in the bed between my mom and dad, when he was 20 years old. He outlived his mom, my sister, by a year. The entire time he was an indoor/outdoor cat, except for the two months he spent lost outside.
That is simply amazing... It's incredible how long the cat lived, considering all that he went through during his life. What a tough soul he must have been.
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~Margaret
I had to revive this long dead and controversial thread.
My son and I went to Sulphur Springs today for the funeral of a dear friend. On the way, down the country roads, we saw many dead cats and dogs, and almost ran over two dogs ourselves. I couldn't help but think of all the people who posted on this thread that they felt their pets were safer outside because they lived in the country.
My girls seem a bit afraid of the outdoors, stopping short in the doorway even when invited outside. I think it's because they know the vet lives out there! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif
(They do enjoy hanging out in the windowsills and sniffing through the screens, though.)
Catwoman...It's interesting that you say that. My cats react the same way to an open doorway. They actually sort of back away from it. Maybe they remember their trips to the vet too. It's very hard for me to get them in the carrier for their appointment, but once we are there and he finishes his exam, shots, etc. they are thrilled to go back in the carrier. He explained it to me this way...."they think of the carrier as a tunnel to home once their exam is over." Apparently that's how they look at it because they certainly don't need to be coaxed to get back in. They can't get in fast enough!
Pam,
I refer to my carrier as "the big blue instrument of death" because that is how the girls treat it! When I finally get them in, Weezie lies down against the back wall. Since Thelma cannot squeeze in-between Weezie and the wall, she lies on top of her sister. My vet thinks it's hilarious!
Catwoman
Been away from my computer for a few days, and things here look a bit different??? What did I miss??
So glad this topic was brought forward for fairly newcomers like me. Good, bad or indifferent, my cats are staying indoors. No questions asked, no way, no how, too bad if they don't like it, the consequences of being outside are too severe. Both sport new collars, bells, and today their new tiny id tags came with their name and my phone number. Not taking chances anymore. Too much pain is involved. Extreme??? You walk in my shoes, then you decide.
In the past month my neighbors and I have been feeding a skinny stray black cat, looking a lot like my newly returned Jasper. I had planned to take it to a feral caretaker I know who has a scanner to check for an ID chip, and then maybe to a vet, or home???
My neighbors and I are wondering, looking so much like my Jasper, hanging around on my porch, did the same person who trapped and dumped my Jasper think he was back? It has now been missing for a week. And maybe this poor stray has been trapped by mistake? More than one of us think so. Some really sick people out there.
About the time this stray disappeared I received a call from an elderly lady, warning me to not notify people of his return. I had planned to post new posters to thank all those who called and came by, who had been searching for him. Not sure how to tell those kind people now... It should not be a dangerous thing to rejoice.
I think it also depends on location.
If I lived in the city or near busy roads, I'd keep my cats inside.
But my parents live out in the country. Cornfields and woods as far as you can see. Our cats came to us either as barn cats or strays. All 5 are allowed to go out. As they age they stay inside more. We have a cat door leading into the garage where there are two cat houses, food, and water, in case they are out when we are gone. 99% of the time they are in when we go out.
Sable came to live with us at 7 years old. He was the local stray that settled down with us. Our property was his property. I watched him chase off dobermans and labs. He lived to be 15.
I don't think it's cruel to keep a cat indoors. But depending on your location, I don't think it's cruel to let you cat out either.